How are we supposed to be any better next season ?

[mildone]

Fortunately for RU recruits are not as stupid as some fans are about the reality of playing in the B1G without the necessary talent, these recruits know what they are getting into & are ready, willing & able to accept the challenge.

And the recruits know that they can make a big difference here as opposed to quite possibly spending the next few seasons red-shirted and/or riding a bench behind the players already in those already winning programs.

There's a great opportunity at RU right now that will go away once Ash and crew have us back on track. Smart players will recognize that opportunity and take it while it lasts.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

We won't be, the schedule is the nearly the same and we are losing our seniors from this year. So unless the recruits are ready to outplay BIG TEN players straight out of High School, it will be much of the same, as far as wins goes. But hopefully we will see improvement beyond that as well.

 

[Kbee3]

It is questionable he gave his best, in any case it was not good enough.

That's funny. Rutgers football has never been as good as it was when Greg Schiano was the head coach. You, me, and every other Rutgers fan better hope Ash or somebody else out there is just possibly good enough to improve the program anywhere near as much as GS did.

 

[Extra Point]

One day our best will be able to beat their best. It may happen sooner than we think.

 

[PaKnight]

We won't be, the schedule is the nearly the same and we are losing our seniors from this year. So unless the recruits are ready to outplay BIG TEN players straight out of High School, it will be much of the same, as far as wins goes. But hopefully we will see improvement beyond that as well.

That is not the case. Shouldn't guys who are already in the program also be replacing graduating seniors or at least get better?

 

[Kbee3]

That is not the case. Shouldn't guys who are already in the program also be replacing graduating seniors or at least get better?

There's hope for that on the O-line.
Don't expect much on D...especially at lb.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

That is not the case. Shouldn't guys who are already in the program also be replacing graduating seniors or at least get better?

Who would that be?

Maybe by the Spring Game I will feel better about our chances but for now... I am not.

 

[PedroPete3]

That's the funny thing about college football, things can change quickly.

 

[PaKnight]

Who would that be?

Maybe by the Spring Game I will feel better about our chances but for now... I am not.

Cole, Seymour, Gio, Oden, Maddox-Williams, Hampton, Hester, Harris, Gray...

Why would you not expect guys to be better than they are this year? That does not mean that we will be a good team next year, just that improvement can come from guys already in the program and not just in incoming freshman.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

I have ZERO expectations, once again, for next season. Just like I had for last year and this season nor have I, for any of the 3, for a few years now. Patience, my friends, patience. We will rise, dare I say, from the "ashes" once again.

That being said, believe it or not, I'm feeling better about potential improvement on D, next year, the more I look at things. Losing Hamilton and JPO? Meh, quite honestly, not gonna be AS tough of a hit as I originally thought. More importantly, IMHO, is the experience a bunch of guys have gotten on the DL, in the back 4, and most importantly at LB.

O is gonna be tough to see improvement, with the "youth movement," but maybe we'll see more "as the year goes along" than we did this past season.

ST's - man - maybe a change is needed here BUT more than anything, IMHO, is the additions and influx of some serious athletes. Can't - literally can't - get any worse.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Cole, Seymour, Gio, Oden, Maddox-Williams, Hampton, Hester, Harris, Gray...

Why would you not expect guys to be better than they are this year? That does not mean that we will be a good team next year, just that improvement can come from guys already in the program and not just in incoming freshman.

I hope you are 100% right and I am 100% wrong.

 

[PaKnight]

There's hope for that on the O-line.
Don't expect much on D...especially at lb.

Why? All three LB's are in their first season of starting, Maddox-Williams is a true freshman playing LB for the first time. He was a d-end in high school. I am not saying that they will be Taylor, Carson and Banks.

 

[ScarletDave]

I would look at it like this. Another team that just hired a new coach, has been worse than us overall over the past 10 years, but is doing better right now: Illinois. Also, I know it's only 2 games in but on the basketball side, our coach comes in and has a team that hasn't been to the NCAA tournament in 25 years, went 1-17 in conference last year, but has opened up with two 20+ point victories right off the bat. What is the difference? -Illinois football, like Rutgers basketball, hired former HEAD coaches, ones that have had ACTUAL SUCCESS in the past. 2 key points. Say what you want about reputation, but look at what Bobby Patrino has done at Louisville this year. Same idea. Ash had NO head coaching experience prior to this year, and he got rid of basically everyone on the staff, so it is almost like we were starting a new football program. Think about it. We have some fans and a stadium and an okay practice facility & new weight room. BUT, you hire all guys that have never been a HEAD anything in their positions, and it's like we're starting completely from scratch. So that's where you get these results from.

 

[mdh2003]

Why? All three LB's are in their first season of starting, Maddox-Williams is a true freshman playing LB for the first time. He was a d-end in high school. I am not saying that they will be Taylor, Carson and Banks.

How about Byron Hunt?

 

[AreYouNUTS]

There's hope for that on the O-line.
Don't expect much on D...especially at lb.

Disagree. LB should be very much imrpoved. The guys got there got a ton of experience and some help is on the way. Same with DB which is playing much better this year (believe it or not!). DL takes a hit, however, but how much? We'll see. Much more worried about O and ST's next year to be honest.

 

[mildone]

I have ZERO expectations, once again, for next season. Just like I had for last year and this season nor have I, for any of the 3, for a few years now. Patience, my friends, patience. We will rise, dare I say, from the "ashes" once again.

That being said, believe it or not, I'm feeling better about potential improvement on D, next year, the more I look at things. Losing Hamilton and JPO? Meh, quite honestly, not gonna be AS tough of a hit as I originally thought. More importantly, IMHO, is the experience a bunch of guys have gotten on the DL, in the back 4, and most importantly at LB.

O is gonna be tough to see improvement, with the "youth movement," but maybe we'll see more "as the year goes along" than we did this past season.

ST's - man - maybe a change is needed here BUT more than anything, IMHO, is the additions and influx of some serious athletes. Can't - literally can't - get any worse.

You and I are aligned, I think, in being realistic about the state of the program and the time/work needed to get back to winning.

But we could be surprised next year. Not beating OSU or Michigan surprised, but winning more of the games we were at least partially in this year surprised.

We just need some more hard work (which I'm sure we'll get) from the staff and players in the off-season, and then some luck w/the health of some key players.

I think it's safe to say that the OL is going to continue to struggle next season. If Gio is healthy, that can help a great deal. If Oden works his ass off in the passing game, and becomes good enough at passing to be a true dual threat, that can help too. And if Lewis comes in and kicks ass in camp, he could wind up starting and we'd have two decent dual-threat QB's behind him. That's not an unlikely scenario and it would represent quite a turnaround from this season.

We have a good WR in Harris, I think. We just need to find another couple WRs who can be productive, be it from the stable we have, from a possibly returning Grant, or from recruiting.

If we have a few WRs who can quickly get open and a QB who can reliably get them the ball and who can get first downs with his feet, we're going to look like a very different team. Even with the OL struggling.

On defense, we have nine returning players. Yeah, they have given up too many yards this season. But they are gaining experience game by game and will be stronger and more explosive after a second off season in the hands of Kenny Parker. Plus Ash is a very good DB and defensive coach - so they will be getting better and better.

We need to get more productivity out of the front seven on D. This is an area of concern to me and will be, I'm sure, with Ash. We have to hope that recruiting and coaching through the off-season can lead to some improvements. A graduate transfer or two would be awesome here.

Anyway, I'm sticking with a 2-4 prediction. But with a lot of luck, I don't think it's impossible to do better than that and even make a bowl.

If you think about it, we weren't all that far off in a few losses this season. The improvements I mentioned above could have turned those into wins. Hell, just having Grant could've made the difference in a couple.

 

[Kbee3]

Disagree. LB should be very much imrpoved. The guys got there got a ton of experience and some help is on the way. Same with DB which is playing much better this year (believe it or not!). DL takes a hit, however, but how much? We'll see. Much more worried about O and ST's next year to be honest.

I sure hope you're right on this one. I think our lbs are awful..just awful. One guy I watched the game with this past weekend claimed they were the worst set of lbs he'd ever seen at the D1A level. After watching their many failed attempts at tackling MSU's ball carriers, I couldn't really come up with much positive to say about them. Yeah, the freshman looked better than the others. But he looked way over-matched. This position is in as much need of an upgrade as any other for RU.

 

[rutgersal]

I sure hope you're right on this one. I think our lbs are awful..just awful. One guy I watched the game with this past weekend claimed they were the worst set of lbs he'd ever seen at the D1A level. After watching their many failed attempts at tackling MSU's ball carriers, I couldn't really come up with much positive to say about them. Yeah, the freshman looked better than the others. But he looked way over-matched. This position is in as much need of an upgrade as any other for RU.

Tyreek Maddox Williams is only a frosh, but has shown potential. Rashawn Battle and Solomon Manning are redshirting. 4 star TJ Fogg is on the way. Need to recruit a few more LBs if possible. Deonte Roberts is only in year 1 starting. Next year, the LBs should be much better.

 

[DHajekRC84]

Anybody remember that we are not playing Temple, Cincy, UConn, Pitt, Cuse, USF, and a the service academies anymore and replaced them with this monster? GS wining 7-8 games with a 500 league record is replaced with 9 B1G games in the toughest division of college football with a mandated P5 game #10.

If Ash gets us to 7-8 wins every year he will have exceeded what GS did by a mile. IMHO it isn't happening anytime soon. Just enjoy the cash and hope that what is happening at the RAC is for real.

 

[RUTGERZ_R00LZ]

[QUOTE="RU31trap, post: 2463973, member: 6544] Coach Ash is in over his head and in my opinion a step down from coach Flood.[/QUOTE] I'm positive you didn't see the Russell Athletic bowl.

 

[Nihilist Rodgers]

Anybody remember that we are not playing Temple, Cincy, UConn, Pitt, Cuse, USF, and a the service academies anymore and replaced them with this monster? GS wining 7-8 games with a 500 league record is replaced with 9 B1G games in the toughest division of college football with a mandated P5 game #10.

If Ash gets us to 7-8 wins every year he will have exceeded what GS did by a mile. IMHO it isn't happening anytime soon. Just enjoy the cash and hope that what is happening at the RAC is for real.

spot on.. great post.

Question is can Ash pass PSU (no), OSU (no), UM (no) MSU?? what about Iowa?, Minn, IU, Md to find 2-3 conf wins combined with 2 OOC wins to get to 500 or better? You would be far better off in the BIG west.-sg

 

[Kbee3]

Tyreek Maddox Williams is only a frosh, but has shown potential. Rashawn Battle and Solomon Manning are redshirting. 4 star TJ Fogg is on the way. Need to recruit a few more LBs if possible. Deonte Roberts is only in year 1 starting. Next year, the LBs should be much better.

I don't usually respond to your posts, al....you know...'cause you've got that whole devoid of reality thing going on. But I honestly don't know how our lbs could NOT be somewhat better next season. The problem is that we currently play a schedule where "much better" probably won't cut it.

 

[PaKnight]

I sure hope you're right on this one. I think our lbs are awful..just awful. One guy I watched the game with this past weekend claimed they were the worst set of lbs he'd ever seen at the D1A level. After watching their many failed attempts at tackling MSU's ball carriers, I couldn't really come up with much positive to say about them. Yeah, the freshman looked better than the others. But he looked way over-matched. This position is in as much need of an upgrade as any other for RU.

The question was not whether they will be good, but would they be better than they were in 2016.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

I sure hope you're right on this one. I think our lbs are awful..just awful. One guy I watched the game with this past weekend claimed they were the worst set of lbs he'd ever seen at the D1A level. After watching their many failed attempts at tackling MSU's ball carriers, I couldn't really come up with much positive to say about them. Yeah, the freshman looked better than the others. But he looked way over-matched. This position is in as much need of an upgrade as any other for RU.

Odds are they're still the lowest-ranked unit in the B1G, at their position, but they've GOT to be better - as a group themselves - just from experience. Throw into the mix the guys on the sidelines and headed into the program and I think - THINK - we see a good amount of improvement. Again, nothing crazy here, don't get me wrong. Remember this was not only the most over-matched unit in the conference but, possibly, the most inexperienced one in the NATION coming into the season.

 

[Nihilist Rodgers]

problem is that PSU and tOSU are even younger than RU right now.. UM might take a step back but they are recruiting at an unreal level (ie Gary from NJ). Let's say RU gets 20% better.. but so do PSU and tOSU.. football does not exist in a a vacuum. If Ash can justify keeping his job in 4-5 years (even with a .500 or sub .500 record) it will have been a masterful coaching job.-sg

 

[MADHAT1]

The question was not whether they will be good, but would they be better than they were in 2016.

That's what worries me.
Ash and his staff really hasn't shown they are capable of coaching up players or have the ability to overcome the lack of talent RU's roster is supposed to have and make a game-plan that makes RU look even a little bit competitive against the better programs .
Yes the Iowa game was very competitive but the way RU played the down Mich St program and the way RU players looked at the end of that game isn't an endorsement
of anyone getting better because of the way they are being coached.

In reality: Ash has a lot to learn to be a successful HC , Mehringer is feeling his way as as a B1G OC with one year lower level OC and a position coach last season .The rest of Ash's staff might not be prime time coaches and it shows.

 

[goethe14]

And the recruits know that they can make a big difference here as opposed to quite possibly spending the next few seasons red-shirted and/or riding a bench behind the players already in those already winning programs.

There's a great opportunity at RU right now that will go away once Ash and crew have us back on track. Smart players will recognize that opportunity and take it while it lasts.

This is one of the most over used and useless phrases by fanbases hoping to land players. The opportunity of playing early. If a player is good enough to play as a true freshman it means he will end up at the winning programs. Because if you can play early it means you are an elite recruit. If you aren't and go to another school to play early it means you are about to get the crap kicked out of you. You do not learn anything by playing on a poor team and losing as a freshman; the so called experience you gain is the experience of losing. You engender short cuts and poor form because physically you are not equal and are just trying to survive. There is a good reason people red shirt and sit on the bench. It allows them time to grow physically and mentally. You also lose a year of football basically. Sell it as an opportunity all you want, every good recruiter from another team will sell it for what it is. Getting thrown into the fire to try to save a sinking ship. You can ruin a player by throwing him out there too early. Confidence and mental state play a huge part when dealing with high level athletes at the D1 level. Now tell me that he should go to Rutgers because he is from New Jersey, the education, etc etc. That is all fine. But the opportunity of playing early is fool's gold and not in the best interest of someone not capable of doing it at all the Big schools.

 

[sct1111]

This is one of the most over used and useless phrases by fanbases hoping to land players. The opportunity of playing early. If a player is good enough to play as a true freshman it means he will end up at the winning programs. Because if you can play early it means you are an elite recruit. If you aren't and go to another school to play early it means you are about to get the crap kicked out of you. You do not learn anything by playing on a poor team and losing as a freshman; the so called experience you gain is the experience of losing. You engender short cuts and poor form because physically you are not equal and are just trying to survive. There is a good reason people red shirt and sit on the bench. It allows them time to grow physically and mentally. You also lose a year of football basically. Sell it as an opportunity all you want, every good recruiter from another team will sell it for what it is. Getting thrown into the fire to try to save a sinking ship. You can ruin a player by throwing him out there too early. Confidence and mental state play a huge part when dealing with high level athletes at the D1 level. Now tell me that he should go to Rutgers because he is from New Jersey, the education, etc etc. That is all fine. But the opportunity of playing early is fool's gold and not in the best interest of someone not capable of doing it at all the Big schools.

Some people like to be the big fish in a small pond. It is a solid selling point for those who desire such things.

 

[goethe14]

Some people like to be the big fish in a small pond. It is a solid selling point for those who desire such things.

Yea they aren't the guys that win big ten football games.

 

[mildone]

This is one of the most over used and useless phrases by fanbases hoping to land players. The opportunity of playing early. If a player is good enough to play as a true freshman it means he will end up at the winning programs. Because if you can play early it means you are an elite recruit. If you aren't and go to another school to play early it means you are about to get the crap kicked out of you. You do not learn anything by playing on a poor team and losing as a freshman; the so called experience you gain is the experience of losing. You engender short cuts and poor form because physically you are not equal and are just trying to survive. There is a good reason people red shirt and sit on the bench. It allows them time to grow physically and mentally. You also lose a year of football basically. Sell it as an opportunity all you want, every good recruiter from another team will sell it for what it is. Getting thrown into the fire to try to save a sinking ship. You can ruin a player by throwing him out there too early. Confidence and mental state play a huge part when dealing with high level athletes at the D1 level. Now tell me that he should go to Rutgers because he is from New Jersey, the education, etc etc. That is all fine. But the opportunity of playing early is fool's gold and not in the best interest of someone not capable of doing it at all the Big schools.

Nah, you're overstating things. Not too many coaches are going to play a kid that's not ready because it's counter-productive. Ash has shown no signs of doing so in his first year as HC. But like any coach, he will play (and has played) kids that are ready, even as freshmen.

And in our case, we are severely under-manned so for next couple years, a good player that is not likely to beat out a 4 and/or 5 star junior or senior at OSU or Michigan, stands a much better chance to beat out an older player on our roster.

As for recruiters, they all sell based on what fits their particular context. Not all players are attracted to the same things and while some players might be happy enough being a cog in a machine at an elite program, others would rather take a program on their shoulders and help build it to excellence. Like Brian Leonard. Who wound up having a pretty good football career.

There are certainly more of the cogs. But there are plenty of Brian Leonard's out there too. And our program will be happy to take more players like Leonard.

 

[sct1111]

Yea they aren't the guys that win big ten football games.

Maybe not their freshman year. But as these players gain more experience and the young players around them also develop, by their Junior/Senior seasons you have a good team. Young teams improve.

 

[MADHAT1]

Nah, you're overstating things. Not too many coaches are going to play a kid that's not ready because it's counter-productive. Ash has shown no signs of doing so in his first year as HC. But like any coach, he will play (and has played) kids that are ready, even as freshmen.

And in our case, we are severely under-manned so for next couple years, a good player that is not likely to beat out a 4 and/or 5 star junior or senior at OSU or Michigan, stands a much better chance to beat out an older player on our roster.

As for recruiters, they all sell based on what fits their particular context. Not all players are attracted to the same things and while some players might be happy enough being a cog in a machine at an elite program, others would rather take a program on their shoulders and help build it to excellence. Like Brian Leonard. Who wound up having a pretty good football career.

There are certainly more of the cogs. But there are plenty of Brian Leonard's out there too. And our program will be happy to take more players like Leonard.

Agree with most of what you're saying, but I feel Ash made a mistake in burning Oden's redshirt and playing him before he was ready .
Tylin must have shown in pratice that his passing ability left a lot top be desired and redshirting him so he could improve would be a sensible move.
If the need to have a QB put in just because of his running skills and a threat to pass ,Zach Allen might have fit that bill.

As for players that want to put a program on his shoulders and commit to a down program and build it into a good one, I think most top HS talent feel they can go to a top program and be the man, so they use the down programs as fall back ones if the schools they target as their top choices don't return the same interest they have in that school.
Ever notice that most ( not all) perennial top programs usually have an abundance of 4* players committing to them ever year along with a few 5* ones.
It's hard to break into that crowd when you only get the occasional 4* then mainly 3s with 2* recruits filling roster.
RU is looking up in that department with three 4 stars committed and only three 3 under the radar 2 star recruits committed (out of the 18 commits ) to RU's class of 2017

 

[goethe14]

Maybe not their freshman year. But as these players gain more experience and the young players around them also develop, by their Junior/Senior seasons you have a good team. Young teams improve.

My point was the big fish in small pond equals guys who want to be the guy due to lack of competition. You can never improve to your greatest extent without the competition to push you.

 

[REDRICH65]

It' s 2020 and revenge is sweet. Rutgers booted from B1G and Temple in. Oh my !

 

[goethe14]

Nah, you're overstating things. Not too many coaches are going to play a kid that's not ready because it's counter-productive. Ash has shown no signs of doing so in his first year as HC. But like any coach, he will play (and has played) kids that are ready, even as freshmen.

And in our case, we are severely under-manned so for next couple years, a good player that is not likely to beat out a 4 and/or 5 star junior or senior at OSU or Michigan, stands a much better chance to beat out an older player on our roster.

As for recruiters, they all sell based on what fits their particular context. Not all players are attracted to the same things and while some players might be happy enough being a cog in a machine at an elite program, others would rather take a program on their shoulders and help build it to excellence. Like Brian Leonard. Who wound up having a pretty good football career.

There are certainly more of the cogs. But there are plenty of Brian Leonard's out there too. And our program will be happy to take more players like Leonard.

I'm going to disagree on most points. Again either you are capable of playing in the big ten as a freshman or not. It does you no service to go to a program where you can play early due to poor upper class man because you aren't ready. Playing too early does more harm than good the majority of the time. Experience is overrated if the experience you are getting is of a negative nature. I can not underscore how much the redshirt year means. MSU is a prime example. They had a system and even the so called underrecruited guys didn't see the field until years 3 or 4. There are NOT plenty of Brian Leonards. There are perhaps plenty of players with the same ranking and offer sheet but not that develop into the player he was. He is an extreme example of something working. He should not be the example of what you expect going forward. Again recruit to the school, the education , the major someone is interested in. The relationship they have with the staff but not you will play here early and not elsewhere. The above poster cited a great example. Oden wasn't ready and they threw him in. Thats not looking out for the player at all. Again JMO

 

[ArminRU]

I can't see how we can't be better. For the most part, the seniors are being replaced by more talented underclassmen who just need the reps and have a higher ceiling. The rest of the gang will be another year stronger and experienced. This will especially help the LB'ers and some of the OLine. If Gio, Oden or Lewis come on strong, and our newbie WRs can step up, I think we will be a lot more competitive.

 

[Kbee3]

It' s 2020 and revenge is sweet. Rutgers booted from B1G and Temple in. Oh my !

The only thing your post does is identify you as someone who is trying to get a rise from Rutgers fans on a Rutgers board....and consequently will most likely lose you posting privileges here.
Thanks for playing.

 

[RMSko]

As some have noted, one player can make all the difference in the world:

• Look at RU with and without Carroo last year.
• Look at RU with and without Grant this year.
• Look at RU with and without a fully healthy Gio this year

So in my view, on offense we could have 3 or more MAJOR differences. Plus we still have our RBs coming back. I don't want to hear about the line. If we are able to play the system DM wants, and have a truly mobile QB, that will lesson the impact of the line, especially when taking into account a significantly better receiving core. RU was very close in a bunch of games this year. Mitchell will have a year + under his belt and could be Carroo like. If Grant comes back, we could have a powerful receiving core, especially when you throw Melton into the mix. I'm just as disgusted as everyone else is, but performance often rests on the luck of the bounce and this year we lost every close game and didn't get any of the bounces. It was the complete opposite in our first season in the B1G. One year was a success and the other a disaster, even though statistically the two weren't that dissimilar. My bet is that we win 4-5 games next year, although we will still get blown out by the elite teams.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

It' s 2020 and revenge is sweet. Rutgers booted from B1G and Temple in. Oh my !

When your boy Flood finally gets a Pop Warner job somewhere will you go away?

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

The only thing your post does is identify you as someone who is trying to get a rise from Rutgers fans on a Rutgers board....and consequently will most likely lose you posting privileges here.
Thanks for playing.

Don't forget to report him. Just click on the tool icon.

I have had enough of these trolls.