This a consensus thought. Not saying it can't happen, but how can people say this with confidence. Is this a hope or a belief?
How far RU has come in a short period of time
- Thread starter NewJerseyHawk
- Start date
This a consensus thought. Not saying it can't happen, but how can people say this with confidence. Is this a hope or a belief?
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Just look what Yeboah did against p5 opponents and you can literally go back and watch full game tape of him vs RU in december 2017. With guys like eugene and freeman guarding him he went off for 21 and 6 in just 23 minutes of play. This is the same eugene who people think is some defensive stalwart by the way. What did Eugene do that game? In 29 minutes of play, he scored 1 point and had 4 boards. So who's better?
To be fair, Eugene developed quite a bit after that game. That being said, I have no doubt Yeboah has also been developing his game for 2 years.
They played multiple power conference schools every year and he did excel in those games
In an attempt to normalize strength of schedule and looking at the early part of the schedule for both players last year, while both players were healthy. Omoruyi's 10 OOC games (kenpom avg 172, best was 60th) vs. Yeboah's 11 OOC Div-I games before getting hurt (kenpom avg 214, best was 70th).
Omoruyi: 29.4 min, 15.8 pts, 8.7 rb, 2.3 ast, 3.3 tov, 3.4 pf
Yeboah: 32.3 min, 20.0 pts, 7.1 rb, 0.9 ast, 2.5 tov, 2.9 pf
Yeboah may be able to score as much next year as Omoruyi did last year... but there's also rebounding, assists, and defense to consider. Will see how his game adjusts to a different supporting cast and a higher talent level in practice.
Its blind optimism
It certainly can happen
But expecting it is a dangerous game to play
I preface by saying I was a pretty big fan of Eugene as a Rutgers player. But he was a bench player who averaged 8/5 as a Sophomore. The idea he was going to be a “key factor” as a Junior was one major reason most folks didn’t see us improving all that much in ‘18-‘19 as Corey/Mike/Deshaun left.
Kudos to Eugene as he had a very nice Junior season. He developed in to an above average B1G player. I would have certainly wanted him for his Senior season. He also is very much more replaceable than Corey was a year ago. And we ALL saw how that went.
Just my $0.02
Kudos to Eugene as he had a very nice Junior season. He developed in to an above average B1G player. I would have certainly wanted him for his Senior season. He also is very much more replaceable than Corey was a year ago. And we ALL saw how that went.
Just my $0.02
I'm optimistic for the future and like the young guys but we need a big step up in shooting from these guys for us to improve to an NCAA team. We were last in the big 10 in 3pt % and third to last in overall %. That isn't going to get it done.
A lot of talk of 3 or 4 shooters on the floor at the same time. We have more guys than in the recent past who LIKE to shoot 3 pt, but there still aren't going in the basket at a high level. that needs to improve big time.
If we don't pick up the defense and try to run and gun without a big pick up in our shooting percentage we are going to see some ugly blowouts along with a couple big wins.
A lot of talk of 3 or 4 shooters on the floor at the same time. We have more guys than in the recent past who LIKE to shoot 3 pt, but there still aren't going in the basket at a high level. that needs to improve big time.
If we don't pick up the defense and try to run and gun without a big pick up in our shooting percentage we are going to see some ugly blowouts along with a couple big wins.
Well, the eternal battle of blind optimism and blind cynicism will probably continue on this board forever.
But in reality, most of the optimists are basing their positions on indicators that are there, whether you acknowledge it or not. You seem to just assume you're the only person basing your positions in any type of reality, which is inaccurate.
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
you and @Greene Rice FIG have become so unbearable lately. Fact is you guys have REFUSED to watch a single game of yeboah yet still feel entitled to make what you want others to believe is an educated opinion on his game. WATCH SOME GOD DAMN TAPE
blind cynicism usually beats blind optimism, especially with Rutgers hoops.
There are countless busts that in hindsight were obvious. No one wanted to take stock in Kiss low percentages, not many wanted to discuss Carter's lack of JUCO PT, no one wants to discuss Yeboah's low 3pt FG % at the American East conference.
1) you're one of the few holding out hope on Kiss (me too!), he was only a freshman when transferring, still may be good.
2) those people were right about Carter. He provided great value as a big off the bench in the B1G. No one thinks he's a bust now, and no one thought he'd be a starter then.
3) Yeboah's percentage wasn't bad, it was career .335, and as high as 35% for a season. That's helpful on this team if he maintains it. People that expect 40% from 3 are ridiculous.
You've really convinced yourself that you are just correct on every thought that's ever come into your head.
Yeah but you left out the questions about
A) McConnell not being able to play at this level,
B) how not getting Tai Strickland was a collosal miss as a true PG,
C) Ron Harper not being a quality shooter after starting 2-21 from 3,
D) Mathis not starting from Day 1 along with bad body language and a flat jump shot from 3,
E) Baker's inability to play PG at this level,
F) whether the reports on Myles Johnson from last summer were fluff or hearsay
G) How would we dare not bring in a grad transfer at PG
H) The countless discussions about the missing toughness of Mike Williams
I) There was no way we would replace the defense and toughness of Corey Sanders
The reality is that a lot of these concerns are valid at the time, but for this specific one, I could again argue that 1 for 1, Harper is a better player than Eugene on scoring with less shot attempts and less touches and less turnovers.
I also could agree that defensively, the roster is weaker up front, but better offensively if exceeds the loss on the defensive end.
If you're point is about Peter Kiss is valid, that's fine, except, it's invalidated by the freshman performances exceeding Kiss across the board....Kiss not "meeting expectations", had little impact if the freshmen met or exceeded theirs.
If your point about Shaq Carter is valid, it's because we weren't sure what Myles Johnson was going to provide....so you have 2 "I told you so's or "maybes" in Johnson and Carter, occupying the same spot on the floor....if one is "correct in Myles, and the other one is wrong (Carter), how is RU worse...??
If Carter, Doucoure, Myles Johnson all were busts last season, then losing Freeman and Sa defensively would be valid....that didn't happen
Carter and Myles cancel each other out.....Mathis and McConnell cancel Kiss out.
Now I'm stating Harper and Yeboah production will offset/exceed losing Eugene.
There's a pattern here....maybe I'm missing it.
I think we've talked about Yeboah's 3P% a bunch. When he sprained his knee, his 3P% took a big dip for about a dozen games. We also have three years of attempts to look at, where he's gone 170/507 (.335)... which is more of a body of work from the arc than we've seen in any other incoming transfer (or anyone else on the roster).
Can't just look at his .313 last year and ignore his .341 and .355 his first two years.
As for Kiss, this was my comment from last June: "Kiss was a streaky shooter at Q, and finished with a .277 (36-130) rate as a freshman. As staggering as it is, that would have been our 3rd best option last year. Really hoping a redshirt year has helped him work on his shot and improve consistency, and that we see something over .300"
Turns out he gave me exactly that... .302
Yea I tried to make a thread comparing EO's game to Yeboah's and FIG just threw a temper tantrum and ruined it with uninformed nonsense and then when I asked he admitted he hadn't even seen Yeboah play.... Which was pretty clear from his posts bc if he had he might actually see Yeboah is a baller. He's going to be surprised when he finally gets a chance to see him play next season
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
@Scangg My admin is out today so I have some time on my hands handling busy BS work. Just watched the RU/Stony Brook game from december 2017 and the reason yeboah played so little is he got in foul trouble early with some ticky tack fouls. He guards Eugene the entire game and erased him. He also made eugene look dumb on a couple plays. Had a beautiful and 1 on eugene when eugene went for a big block and yeboah just calmly laid it past him. Yeboah had 7 points in OT, two great finishes at the rim and one catch and shoot 3 with freeman closing out hard
I don’t know man? I don’t have a crystal ball but based on what Yeboah did against Rutgers and several other power 5 programs, I’ll tell you what.... I’m happy he’s now on my team. Last year we lost Corey and wondered where the scoring would come from and we got our answers.... from all over. McConnell, Harper, Mathis, Baker and Johnson all contributed in different games. And yes, Gene was a big part of our scoring. Am I happy he left? No chance I’m happy; I’m actually disturbed that he abandoned his team and coach. That’s how I view it and I don’t care if he’s free to do what he wants or any of that. He’s a quitter and that’s how I will remember him.
It’s a long season and a lot can happen but I think we will be just fine with Yeboah. The one guy who just hasn’t convinced me belongs is Doucore. I know he was injured and I hope like Doorsan did, he proves me wrong. One more guy who can contribute this year is my hope for the rotation.
I should rewatch that game as well. I actually remember watching it live and Yeboah killing us and getting into foul trouble or he would have went for 30+
He was unstoppable. I was sick to my stomach watching him beat us wondering why we couldn’t have him at Rutgers
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Yup. He had 2 fouls in the first 6 minutes or so of the game and then came back late first half and picked up #3 with like 4 mins left in the 1st half. He sat the first 5-6 mins of the 2nd half, came in and picked up #4 with about 11 left to play and then sat for 3 minutes, came back in and scored like 12 of his 21 points while playing with 4 fouls. Also nailed his foul shots. He completely erased Eugene and made him a non-factor besides of course eugene taking one charge against yeboah
This thread misses the point. The fact is a team with a healthy EO and Yeboah next year is better than a team with only Yeboah. Hawk can talk all he wants about EO being inefficient, yet his player efficiency rating (tied w Myles) was highest on team, and 35% higher then Ron. No matter how much EO's exit was weak, he's still a loss. Now if he wasn't going to be healthy, its a different conversation, but none of us know that for sure.
Maybe doing a bad job here.....
My point is to temper expectations with Yeboah. Do not put anything in pen. The likelihood that we say gee who needs Eugene we have Yeboah has a very low probability of occurring.
My point is to temper expectations with Yeboah. Do not put anything in pen. The likelihood that we say gee who needs Eugene we have Yeboah has a very low probability of occurring.
You know what would really suck? If we go through the season and analyze every game through a Eugene lens ("see I told you we need EO" or "see we don't need EO"). This is a different team now. We need to turn the page and discuss the current team. And I'm one of those optimists who think we're in for an exciting season and that's because I expect this year's team will be better than last year's team.
Listen..you hated Eugene..you made a stupid claim about his ability his freshmen year and embarrassed yourself
Your posting gleefully and degrading him since he left is equally embarrassing
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Did not hate eugene. Fact was he was abysmal as a freshman. Spoke volumes about pike and jay young how far he came. Most p5 programs wouldve run an august commit outta town who was that bad in game action, pike and jay young instead developed him into an average big ten forward, which is remarkable considering how bad he was a freshman.
You still havent watched any tape on yeboah. Ill gladly text you the clips i have filmed of him vs eugene if you dm me your number. Yeboah is better. This isnt just hopefully optimism, this is fact. Theyve played vs each other, guarded one another and eugene got handled, rather easily too. Pleaseeeee go back and watch RU vs stony brook december 22 2017. Also watch yeboah vs p5 competition like USCe who he played about 18 months after their final 4 appearance.
There certainly is reason for optimism but history also tells us that transfers to Rutgers have not lived up to the hype. There are so many variables at play with Yeboah and his role and his chemistry fit that I remain cautious on expectations heaped on him
Thats all...it may seem negative but its grounded
As many others have mentioned i am concerned about the loss of defense and rebounding. I am concerned still about the teams ability to shoot on a consis basis...namely 3 pointers I am further concerned...make that really concerned about Doucoure
And yet the young guys have so much potential to blossom and we finally get a pg and overall depth and guard. There is reason to believe
I just wanted to outline that this wasn't as much as a 1 for 1 comparison, which fans aren't ever apparently going to let go of. The point is the boxscores for the 1st half of the year were very Eugene reliant in the front court and RU had not developed the freshman, who were all new to the speed of the game.
It was to point out that a roster had become less and less Eugene reliant and the overall boxscores and play went up, as the schedule went up in difficulty.
On the banks has a lengthy article and interview with Pike and there are multiple options to overcome the loss of Eugene.
His defense was not good down the stretch of last season. I am not saying it was bad, but he wasn't playing as well as he did defensively, earlier this season.
RU i believe was 12th out of 14 teams in defensive ratings in the B1G. I know it's hard to fathom, but we were not good defensively with Eugene. So if there isnt an overwhelming difference in defensive ratings, what exactly are we giving up overall.
The argument could be RU finishes 14th out of 14 B1G teams and improves offensively. And while that is possible, I'm not ready to bail out on the roster being a little more mature and doing OK on the defensive end.
A shot blocker beyond Myles at the PF position for 2020, would be the real difference maker, but we may have to wait a year, unless something falls into our laps in 2019. Otherwise, i just see an overall better team, roster, chemistry and upside.
This team didn't have a chance to Dance in 2019-2020 with Eugene as it's primary offensive player. It may not make it without Eugene, but my estimates are RU will be better off in the long run, making others earn their stripes this year.
It was to point out that a roster had become less and less Eugene reliant and the overall boxscores and play went up, as the schedule went up in difficulty.
On the banks has a lengthy article and interview with Pike and there are multiple options to overcome the loss of Eugene.
His defense was not good down the stretch of last season. I am not saying it was bad, but he wasn't playing as well as he did defensively, earlier this season.
RU i believe was 12th out of 14 teams in defensive ratings in the B1G. I know it's hard to fathom, but we were not good defensively with Eugene. So if there isnt an overwhelming difference in defensive ratings, what exactly are we giving up overall.
The argument could be RU finishes 14th out of 14 B1G teams and improves offensively. And while that is possible, I'm not ready to bail out on the roster being a little more mature and doing OK on the defensive end.
A shot blocker beyond Myles at the PF position for 2020, would be the real difference maker, but we may have to wait a year, unless something falls into our laps in 2019. Otherwise, i just see an overall better team, roster, chemistry and upside.
This team didn't have a chance to Dance in 2019-2020 with Eugene as it's primary offensive player. It may not make it without Eugene, but my estimates are RU will be better off in the long run, making others earn their stripes this year.
On the other hand (under this HC) hindsight was “obvious” that Eugene would turn in to an above average B1G player, Myles would look like a potential future force in the post and three untested freshman would all hold their own in a darn tough league.
Being a cynic has certainly been the correct position for Rutgers hoops. Until Coach Pike entered the picture. He has outperformed expectations three years in a row. I’m putting my money on four.
Just like it’s blind pessimism to believe that Yaboah will be worse than EO. Just like it’s blind pessimism believing that Yaboah can’t be BETTER or produce more than EO.
Past performance is not a guarantee future results.
Embrace some of the leading indicators that are showing that this coaching staff and this young team can provide some different outcomes than hoops teams from days gone by.
Last edited:
And I hope all of us turn the page. Turn it now. And don’t look back. The only thing that matters is the players on this team who are wearing Scarlet right now and starting in November.
I for one, will not have another post on the guy that left us in the cold for freakin Oregon.
Last edited:
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
1) i hope you realize traditional transfers and grad transfers are apples and oranges
2) you can be alleviated to know that if you literally just watched any tape at all on yeboah (which you refuse to do) that he is a better defender, equal rebounder (probably better rebounders than gene) and a knock down 3 point shooter
Huge EO fan here.
I will say what I said before last season when we debated if we would nor wouldn't finish in last place of the B1G. I said at the time that if you went game by game, I couldn't tell you how RU would not finish last...but that I would take all bets that we wouldn't. And we didnt. Blind optimism? Maybe.
I call it faith in Pike. He will figure out how the team will be better. Just like he figured out losing Corey.
I definitely worry about losing some of the grit and the toughness of the team without Eugene. But very early on in the year many of us commented on how the ball movement absolutely stopped at times as he tried to do too much as "the man". That is not sour grapes. That is not revisionist history. That is simply the truth. If anything I think that some people are remembering him as a guy with no flaws. That is more revisionist history than some of the box scores being posted above.
This might be a cop-out but I am going to continue to take the approach I have taken from day one with our coach: I believe in this guy in such a big way that while I hate that we lost to Eugene the way that we did I am super confident that this team will take another major step forward this year. And I am excited to see us do it with a bunch of young players who have much more upside then the guy who left like a thief in the night.
I will say what I said before last season when we debated if we would nor wouldn't finish in last place of the B1G. I said at the time that if you went game by game, I couldn't tell you how RU would not finish last...but that I would take all bets that we wouldn't. And we didnt. Blind optimism? Maybe.
I call it faith in Pike. He will figure out how the team will be better. Just like he figured out losing Corey.
I definitely worry about losing some of the grit and the toughness of the team without Eugene. But very early on in the year many of us commented on how the ball movement absolutely stopped at times as he tried to do too much as "the man". That is not sour grapes. That is not revisionist history. That is simply the truth. If anything I think that some people are remembering him as a guy with no flaws. That is more revisionist history than some of the box scores being posted above.
This might be a cop-out but I am going to continue to take the approach I have taken from day one with our coach: I believe in this guy in such a big way that while I hate that we lost to Eugene the way that we did I am super confident that this team will take another major step forward this year. And I am excited to see us do it with a bunch of young players who have much more upside then the guy who left like a thief in the night.
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Again the tape is there, idk why youre too lazy to watch it. He was his teams go to option and often got thrown the ball late in the shot clock and had to try to force things from deep. Hes not gonna have to do that at RU. He shot 32% from 3, shot 36% as a soph the year before. He shot 32% from 3 on 209 attempts. 209. 209. 209. To put this into perspective our leading 3 point shooter, geo, attempted 176 3’s at a 34% clip. Advanced stats fall into yeboahs favor too. Going to make a whole separate thread on this. Do yourself a favor and go back and watch some yeboah games
