How Much Do We Build Up Our OCC Schedule Next Year?

[colbert17]

This year we had the ACC Challenge and two BE teams. The rest were low to mid major teams.
Anyone up to adding any one of these teams?
Providence, Temple or Pitt.
What are the chances we could be in one of the early season tournaments?
And why didn't we play Princeton this year?

 

[Big East Beast]

I see no need to make our OOC more difficult until we get to the point of over. .500 in conference and NCAA. That will probably require 9-10 wins OOC so we can get to 19-20 wins in the regular season.

 

[RRRRUUUU]

It will become Eugene’s senior year. Have to take a shot at making the tourney and upgrade the schedule

 

[kcg88]

Need a harder OOC for sure. We cannot rely on the Big Ten being as strong as it is this season to help our resume.

More games against good opponents = more chances for good wins, fewer chances for bad losses.

And as I always say in scheduling posts... avoid true basement teams (Maine) like the plague. We could beat them by 50, the mere fact that a team on our schedule is ranked sub-300 will be an anchor on our SOS.

Target teams that look like they'll be in the top half of leagues like the MAC, the A10, etc, and schedule at least two power-5 teams. We'll play an ACC team and we'll play Seton Hall, so that would bring us to four total (likely not Gavitt Game for us next year).

Also, play 11 games like everybody else in the Big Ten did. I'm still not sure why we only played 10. That's throwing away another chance to build the resume.

Here's a (realistic-ish) dream schedule for me:

4 power-conference opponents - SHU, ACC team, Temple, Ole Miss
4 mid-tier opponents - St. Bonaventure, Stony Brook, Eastern Michigan, UAB
3 lower-tier (but not total garbage) opponents - Columbia, Fairleigh Dickinson, Fairfield

Sub Temple out for a better team if you want to get really ambitious.

 

[whofrewdatmataRU13]

Id like us to keep playing former Big East foes, obviously we have Seton Hall, but throw in another local team that we used to play, Cuse, Nova, Lville, Gtown, St Johns again, all quality opponents and games with some meaning.

 

[rufeelinit]

I don't think we have played Princeton for a few years now. Neither side seems committed to keeping the series going. This is where we need to be careful not to get ahead of ourselves. If we are going to be playing a 20 game league schedule then for the most part we tie our post season credentials to doing better in what hopefully will be a strong league again next year.

If the OOC is going to be upgraded it ought to be very subtle changes. Most of these schools (i.e. Fordham) will want a home game in return at some point. We want just enough opportunities to enhance the resume and leave us room to be in the discussion if we are say .500 in conference. It would be nice to get into a tournament but I don't think our resume is strong enough yet for consideration for those.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Need to upgrade OOC and hopefully get one or two P5s or top mid majors to come to the RAC. Would be nice to get a couple Quad 1 wins before the B1G. I really wish we would play in one of the Holiday tournaments too.

 

[TDIrish27]

Need a harder OOC for sure. We cannot rely on the Big Ten being as strong as it is this season to help our resume.

More games against good opponents = more chances for good wins, fewer chances for bad losses.

And as I always say in scheduling posts... avoid true basement teams (Maine) like the plague. We could beat them by 50, the mere fact that a team on our schedule is ranked sub-300 will be an anchor on our SOS.

Target teams that look like they'll be in the top half of leagues like the MAC, the A10, etc, and schedule at least two power-5 teams. We'll play an ACC team and we'll play Seton Hall, so that would bring us to four total (likely not Gavitt Game for us next year).

Also, play 11 games like everybody else in the Big Ten did. I'm still not sure why we only played 10. That's throwing away another chance to build the resume.

Here's a (realistic-ish) dream schedule for me:

4 power-conference opponents - SHU, ACC team, Temple, Ole Miss
4 mid-tier opponents - St. Bonaventure, Stony Brook, Eastern Michigan, UAB
3 lower-tier (but not total garbage) opponents - Columbia, Fairleigh Dickinson, Fairfield

Sub Temple out for a better team if you want to get really ambitious.

Looks good-----would sub Monmouth for FDU

 

[bac2therac]

Get UMass off the schedule. Get Fordham off the schedule

Start a series with a AAC school such as UConn, UCF, or Temple

MAC schools at home are okay because they are not Q4s and generally are in the 100s in rankings..EMU was a good choice

Stop playing dregs from lowest conferences. No more Maines and Columbias

Get into a real in season tourney for 2020-2021...absolute must

We specifically need someone on staff to try and come up with trying to manipulate the system. The non conference SOS was 288 so it defintely dragged the overall SOS down...62 seems good but hello its among the bottom dozen of power 5 schools (switching out Pac12 for Big East).

No one says you have the schedule 5 top 25 schools but you cant rest on big 10 play alone...look at Nebraska last year. Conversely look at Indiana this year..their strong ooc gave them the wins to position themselves if they were even 15-12 now they would be in the field. Ive been doing bracketology for years...non conference COUNTS . You have to have 2 or 3 of these...SHU would be one..we have to xome up with some others

 

[kcg88]

Even though they're the same winning percentage it's much better to be 4-2 in Q1 games than 2-1. 4-2 might even be better than 2-0.

 

[dkostus]

Get UMass off the schedule. Get Fordham iff the schedule

Start a series with a AAC school such as UConn, UCF, or Temple

MAC schools at home are okay because they are not Q4s and generally are in the 100s in rankings..EMU was a good choice

Stop playing dregs from lowest conferences. No more Maines and Columbias

Get into a real in season tourney for 2020-2021...absolute must

We specifically need someone on staff to try and come up with trying to manipulate the system. The non conference SOS was 288 so it defintely dragged the overall SOS down...62 seems good but hello its among the bottom dozen of power 5 schools (switching out Pac12 for Big East).

No one says you have the schedule 5 top 25 schools but you cant rest on big 10 play alone...look at Nebraska last year. Conversely look at Indiana this year..their strong ooc gave them the wins to position themselves if they were even 15-12 now they would be in the field. Ive been doing bracketology for years...non conference COUNTS . You have to have 2 or 3 of these...SHU would be one..we have to xome up with some others

I mean, didn't we have 3 this year? Miami, SJU, SHU? The problem seems to be that the bad teams we play are way too bad

 

[kcg88]

I mean, didn't we have 3 this year? Miami, SJU, SHU? The problem seems to be that the bad teams we play are way too bad

I think he means 2 or 3 wins. Indiana lost to Duke and Arkansas but they also beat Marquette, Louisville, and Butler.

 

[colbert17]

I don't think we have played Princeton for a few years now. Neither side seems committed to keeping the series going. This is where we need to be careful not to get ahead of ourselves. If we are going to be playing a 20 game league schedule then for the most part we tie our post season credentials to doing better in what hopefully will be a strong league again next year.

If the OOC is going to be upgraded it ought to be very subtle changes. Most of these schools (i.e. Fordham) will want a home game in return at some point. We want just enough opportunities to enhance the resume and leave us room to be in the discussion if we are say .500 in conference. It would be nice to get into a tournament but I don't think our resume is strong enough yet for consideration for those.

You don't have to be super strong to be in one of the bracketed tourneys. Here's a rundown and I think next year we would be competitive in many of them.

https://www.bloggingthebracket.com/...vents-mte-neutral-site-showcases-thanksgiving

 

[bac2therac]

if RU had beat SHU and SJU and was 15-12 they really still wouldnt be on the bubble.

SHU was a Q1 game but Miami and SJU(because it was at home) are Q2s.. Next year SHU at home likely falls in Q 2 (31-75)

Does the ACC challenge give us the likes of BC, Ga Tech or Wake which will not really move the needle or do they give us NC State, Clemson or Va Tech where the program gains an opportunity

RU needs to get in a tourney where you get a Q1 game for a neutral site (1-50) or a quality road opponent...(1-75). If you believe RU is a tourney team then you should believe that the road opportunity is there to cement your resume. Also a tourney will usually give a Q2 opportunity as well (51-100)


The Fordham loss and their ranking of 234 was god awful. For one we have to eliminate these kind of losses...we have had them the past two seasons. They prove fatal to rankings and at large chances.

playing UMass on the road is likely playing Dartmouth at home, UMass is so bad as a program right now that going on the road to play them isnt even worth it. Their NET is 221 this year, will it be as bad next year?

I do a realize its somewhat of a crapshoot...schools you think will be solid enough end up being awful so its never going to be perfect getting it right.

Overall I dont think we should be afraid to schedule. If Pike thinks this team has it in them for the NCAA then he needs to schedule accordingly. There are no guarantees about the strength of the Big 10 next year

 

[knights1212]

I think if we are not in the Gavitt games next season we must add at least one more major team in our OOC. That should hopefully be at home. We cannot play any team in the 300's. Hopefully we stick with teams in the 100's. We also definitely need 11 OOC games next year. If we have our own exempt tournament again we must have at least 5 teams in it so we can play 4 games in it and have 11 OOC games. One extra win might just mean something. I wouldn't mind playing an A-10 team, or an Ivy League team (Penn, Harvard or Princeton etc) or a MAC team but they must be home games. I was told that Fordham is not on next season's schedule so I hope that is true. We need to improve our overall OOC strength of schedule.

 

[colbert17]

One thing to remember though for those who might be a little over ambitious in scheduling is a quote I remember from the old coach George Raveling. It was along the lines of "Coaches who believe that they should play the toughest schedules possible are now managers at Walmart."

 

[Big East Beast]

if RU had beat SHU and SJU and was 15-12 they really still wouldnt be on the bubble.

SHU was a Q1 game but Miami and SJU(because it was at home) are Q2s.. Next year SHU at home likely falls in Q 2 (31-75)

Does the ACC challenge give us the likes of BC, Ga Tech or Wake which will not really move the needle or do they give us NC State, Clemson or Va Tech where the program gains an opportunity

RU needs to get in a tourney where you get a Q1 game for a neutral site (1-50) or a quality road opponent...(1-75). If you believe RU is a tourney team then you should believe that the road opportunity is there to cement your resume. Also a tourney will usually give a Q2 opportunity as well (51-100)


The Fordham loss and their ranking of 234 was god awful. For one we have to eliminate these kind of losses...we have had them the past two seasons. They prove fatal to rankings and at large chances.

playing UMass on the road is likely playing Dartmouth at home, UMass is so bad as a program right now that going on the road to play them isnt even worth it. Their NET is 221 this year, will it be as bad next year?

I do a realize its somewhat of a crapshoot...schools you think will be solid enough end up being awful so its never going to be perfect getting it right.

Overall I dont think we should be afraid to schedule. If Pike thinks this team has it in them for the NCAA then he needs to schedule accordingly. There are no guarantees about the strength of the Big 10 next year

If we beat SHU, SJU, Fordham & Iowa we’re 17-10 and solidly on the bubble. No reason to raise the bar until we cross this one. It’s been almost 30 years for crying out loud! Why would anyone want to make it harder?

 

[bac2therac]

gee why stop with them...if they also beat MSU, Michigan, Purdue, they would be 20-7 and in the field

with a tougher schedule RU would be on the bubble at 15-12

 

[Night Man]

I can't assume that the team has shaken December's inability to put away bad low- and mid- major teams. Of course they're playing much better now but they played some good ball in November too and yet the last we saw of RU vs a bad opponent they were falling down double digits in the first half to Maine after beating Columbia in OT. I would say this actually makes scheduling a little easier. If Q4 games are going to lull you to sleep instead of giving you easy wins, why not just upgrade the whole damn thing.

 

[Big East Beast]

gee why stop with them...if they also beat MSU, Michigan, Purdue, they would be 20-7 and in the field

with a tougher schedule RU would be on the bubble at 15-12

I was just adding to what you said with games we were closer to winning. In reality, SJU beat us handily the game wasn’t close. Maine & Columbia aren’t the problem. Losing is.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Need a harder OOC for sure. We cannot rely on the Big Ten being as strong as it is this season to help our resume.

More games against good opponents = more chances for good wins, fewer chances for bad losses.

And as I always say in scheduling posts... avoid true basement teams (Maine) like the plague. We could beat them by 50, the mere fact that a team on our schedule is ranked sub-300 will be an anchor on our SOS.

Target teams that look like they'll be in the top half of leagues like the MAC, the A10, etc, and schedule at least two power-5 teams. We'll play an ACC team and we'll play Seton Hall, so that would bring us to four total (likely not Gavitt Game for us next year).

Also, play 11 games like everybody else in the Big Ten did. I'm still not sure why we only played 10. That's throwing away another chance to build the resume.

Here's a (realistic-ish) dream schedule for me:

4 power-conference opponents - SHU, ACC team, Temple, Ole Miss
4 mid-tier opponents - St. Bonaventure, Stony Brook, Eastern Michigan, UAB
3 lower-tier (but not total garbage) opponents - Columbia, Fairleigh Dickinson, Fairfield

Sub Temple out for a better team if you want to get really ambitious.

That would schedule is beyond brutal...23 games against the power confrence ....plus 4 more from true mid Major confrence ...and only from 4 from low Major...that’s asking a lot

 

[Mr Magoo]

We should’t be playing Fordham at all but to play them on their court is ridiculous. Almost nothing to gain from this at all and whatever could be gained, could have been done against a better opponent on the road.

 

[bac2therac]

I was just adding to what you said with games we were closer to winning. In reality, SJU beat us handily the game wasn’t close. Maine & Columbia aren’t the problem. Losing is.

Minnesota is 17-11 and is one of the last 4-6 schools in right now in a very weak year for the bubble and they have a stronger schedule than RU. Many here wouldnt want to play a schedule even like theirs which i think was 148 non conferencr

 

[rubaseball78]

How about we start getting to records like 20-12, 22-10, etc. before we start making OOC more difficult.

 

[kcg88]

How about we start getting to records like 20-12, 22-10, etc. before we start making OOC more difficult.

Because the goal is to make the tournament, not win 20 games. Scheduling cupcakes out of conference and going 20-11 (10-10) isn't going to be good enough to get to the tournament most years.

 

[kcg88]

Back in 2013, the Big Ten was rated as the #1 conference by KenPom.

Iowa went 20-11 (9-9) in the regular season and beat Northwestern before losing to Michigan State in the conference tournament.

Their non-conference strength of schedule was ranked 338th. They had one borderline what we'd now call "Quadrant-1" win (home vs. Iowa State) and that's it. They lost to Wichita State and Virginia Tech, beat an alright Northern Iowa, and then went 9-0 against a bunch of cupcakes.

As a result, they missed the tournament despite 20 regular season wins and a .500 record in a very strong conference.

 

[rubaseball78]

Because the goal is to make the tournament, not win 20 games. Scheduling cupcakes out of conference and going 20-11 (10-10) isn't going to be good enough to get to the tournament most years.

You are not getting to tournament without winning 20 games.

 

[kcg88]

You are not getting to tournament without winning 20 games.

Right now Joe Lunardi has:

Texas as a 9 seed. KenPom projects them to finish 17-14. And Florida as a 9 seed. KenPom projects them to finish 18-13.

Last year, Texas made it with an 18-13 regular-season record. Alabama made it at 17-14 (19-15 including conference tournament).

The year before Vanderbilt and Marquette made it with fewer than 20 wins.

The point is, it happens. Of course we're going to have to win these tougher games on our schedule, but every year there are empty-calorie 20-win teams that get left out: Mississippi State and USC went 21-10 last year and didn't make it, for instance.

The last thing you want to have happen is to have a team that's good enough to make the tournament but doesn't because you scheduled improperly. This was Seth Greenberg's mistake at Virginia Tech: On more than one occasion he had a team good enough to make the field, but he didn't give them enough opportunities to collect quality wins out of conference, and then teams rated worse by metrics regularly got at-large bids over them because they built better resumes.

Also just speaking as a fan, games against Temple or Creighton or somebody like that would be a lot more fun than games against Boston University or Maine.

 

[bac2therac]

I will always defend scheduling tougherbover scheduling soft. For years ive been doing the bracketology and have seven first hand the schools left out with gaudy records...Nebraska was 13-5 in the Big 10 last year and didnt make it. Each year in league is different..this year the big 10 is rated 2nd, ,next year it might be rated 5th. This year the bubble is weak. Next year it might be totally different

Of course winning games matters but you want to control as much as you can. I know Ru fans will bitch if they miss out at 20-11 while an 18-13 school gets in

If Pike doesnt feel this program is ready for a ncaa push next year then he may schedule softer to go for the wins and hope they overacheive in wins. If he thinks its a ncaa team then the schedule needs to be beefed up

 

[FrankZ]

How about we start getting to records like 20-12, 22-10, etc. before we start making OOC more difficult.

How about even just getting to .500

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

To me, there's very little difference between Iowa and Minnesota...i know the standings or record says there's a wide margin, but the difference between the records isn't as vast as it appears.

If Iowa doesn't rally vs NW or beat RU, they'd be reeling now, with a tough win mixed over Indiana. They'd be under .500 in the B1G and with a SOS much weaker than Minnesota.

RU has gotten ZERO favors with the November 2 games we've played in the B1G....and what happens if the home and home 6 to 7 teams we play is Sparty, Michigan, Maryland, Purdue, Penn State, Ohio State and Wisconsin, because the perception is RU is on the uptick??

Minnesota isn't going to get in the NCAAS because they needed to beat Michigan once, Sparty, Purdue or someone in the top half of the B1G. You can schedule up all day long, but if RU isnt beating Sparty, Michigan, Purdue, Maryland at the RAC, are we beating them on the road??

If you want to make the NCAAS next year, get to 19 or 20 wins as fast as you can and spring an upset or 2 at the RAC against an upper echelon B1G opponent. Thinking you have to go on the road in November to prove anything, when our November B1G games could be at Michigan and home for Sparty, is crazy-town....if you take 3 losses in OOC and start 0-2 in the B1G without knowing the 20 game slate, you could wind up like Illinois or Penn State.....a solid team, way under..500 with no postseason in sight.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

My rhetorical question......

Looking at the next 3 years based on the information we have......

What is the peak year for NCAA chances?

Next year....everyone but Doorson back and we add Young and Mulcahy
'20-'21.....Eugene is gone but everyone is a year older plus new class
'21-'22.....no Eugene or Baker

I am thinking when looking solely at the next 3 years it might be next year. Eugene, I think, is that important.

With that in mind maybe you schedule for a NCAA run. With that being said, I am still doubtful we have enough horses.

 

[bac2therac]

To me, there's very little difference between Iowa and Minnesota...i know the standings or record says there's a wide margin, but the difference between the records isn't as vast as it appears.

If Iowa doesn't rally vs NW or beat RU, they'd be reeling now, with a tough win mixed over Indiana. They'd be under .500 in the B1G and with a SOS much weaker than Minnesota.

RU has gotten ZERO favors with the November 2 games we've played in the B1G....and what happens if the home and home 6 to 7 teams we play is Sparty, Michigan, Maryland, Purdue, Penn State, Ohio State and Wisconsin, because the perception is RU is on the uptick??

Minnesota isn't going to get in the NCAAS because they needed to beat Michigan once, Sparty, Purdue or someone in the top half of the B1G. You can schedule up all day long, but if RU isnt beating Sparty, Michigan, Purdue, Maryland at the RAC, are we beating them on the road??

If you want to make the NCAAS next year, get to 19 or 20 wins as fast as you can and spring an upset or 2 at the RAC against an upper echelon B1G opponent. Thinking you have to go on the road in November to prove anything, when our November B1G games could be at Michigan and home for Sparty, is crazy-town....if you take 3 losses in OOC and start 0-2 in the B1G without knowing the 20 game slate, you could wind up like Illinois or Penn State.....a solid team, way under..500 with no postseason in sight.

are you downplaying Iowa? come on. They are better than Minnesota and proven it...Michigan win anyone..eyetest as well. Are they playing their best right now..no


I am going to keep reiterating this...YOU HAVE TO HAVE A QUALITY WIN OR TWO OUT OF CONFERENCE. I have seen this for years. The Big 10 is not always the top 2 conferences. Ask Penn State and Nebby how they felt about last year.

Illniois lost early because they were young and not ready ...just like RU lost to a horrific team in Fordham....I can guarantee you Underwood is going to schedule strong next year and have Illinois competing for a NCAA bid.

RU's game at Fordham is worthless...they could have scheduled Duke at that point and it would have helped their ranking win or lose

 

[knights1212]

That is true BAC. I am glad we will not be playing Fordham next season. It would help if we could beat SHU at home in December and win a home game in the ACC-BIG Challenge. We were at Miami this season so we should get a home game in that event this coming season. I would like us to schedule another major team. If it isn't at home perhaps we could play a really good team at MSG. We also need to not play any team that is rated above 300. Hopefully we can play teams at about 150 in our OOC. That would improve our SOS a great deal.

 

[kcg88]

I'd rather do a home-and-home than a single-shot neutral (MSG) game.

 

[bac2therac]

neutral site games against schools in the 51-100 range count as Quad 2 games....1-50 Quad 1

tournaments and one off games can really help. RU has to get involved going forward. You get some Pac 12 schools in those conferences...could be middle type teams...doesnt have to be the top schools.

and again I dont want anyone to think its about scheduling top 25 schools but you want to do some more midpack schools that could be NCAA contenders or NIT type schools

i

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sorry to be a wet blanket......and people will ignore or say it doesn't matter...

All this scheduling still needs to be done with an eye towards revenue and costs of the program.

If Pat Hobbs is told the athletic department needs to be self sufficient than that is how he is being evaluated.

The alcohol news is a big deal and it puts everything in context. You can't ignore what it means and says.

With all that being said.......a home tournament means 3 extra gates. It also means crappy teams.

This year we have 17 home games. Look for us to have 18 or 19 next year.

Drexel, E Michigan BU and RU was the 4 game tournament.

It really is about Maine Columbia and FDU and Fordham.

Would Yale, Harvard, Brown and an improved Dartmouth come here without strings attached? The Ivy league is rated #11 conference

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You get some Pac 12 schools in those conferences...
i

That means playing 1 home and 1 away and the costs flying across the country. Makes no sense. ACC and Big East are in our backyard are are a bus ride away.

 

[bac2therac]

in season tourneys..are you saying we shouldnt compete in them because of cost....BOLLOCKS

then we shouldnt ever compete....

 

[bac2therac]

Sorry to be a wet blanket......and people will ignore or say it doesn't matter...

All this scheduling still needs to be done with an eye towards revenue and costs of the program.

If Pat Hobbs is told the athletic department needs to be self sufficient than that is how he is being evaluated.

The alcohol news is a big deal and it puts everything in context. You can't ignore what it means and says.

With all that being said.......a home tournament means 3 extra gates. It also means crappy teams.

This year we have 17 home games. Look for us to have 18 or 19 next year.

Drexel, E Michigan BU and RU was the 4 game tournament.

It really is about Maine Columbia and FDU and Fordham.

Would Yale, Harvard, Brown and an improved Dartmouth come here without strings attached? The Ivy league is rated #11 conference

then be prepared to be laughed at next year with a joke schedule....playing sisters of the poor does not prepare RU for the Big 10. If this is how Hobbs is looking at things then he should be removed.