I honestly don’t think it matters. To roll out an offense this bad after an entire offseason to get ready. FCS teams have better schemes.
How much more time do we give Ash?
- Thread starter MGSA99
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I think Ash realizes that his future here is directly tied to getting a quarterback into the program that can actually pass the ball. I give him credit for that and will be hoping we see a ray of hope next year when Sitkowski or Chatman start by mid-season.
As far as I see it I don’t even consider his first year because it really wasn’t his recruiting class for the most part. We will see improvement next year when this recruiting class adds to his 1st one. I have a lot of confidence in this team and staff. Give Lewis this offseason to fine tune himself and Sitkowski and Chatman the time to develop. We have Blackshear, Snead and some good running backs returning plus I like the running backs coming in.Our D will be good again if not better. Our offense will be improved. I see us winning at least 6 games next year and become bowl eligible! The Glass is Half full People!
Anyone rooting for 3 years is rooting for the death of our program.. no up and coming coach or coordinator who wants to be coach who is worth ANYTHING will even piss in our direction if they are only guaranteed 3 years to get their guys and turn things around. Why would they when they can go to another school and be guaranteed 4? You don't bet your career on a place when you won't even see your first recruiting class as senior's.
I don't think he'll be gone before 4 years regardless of wins next year could even be 0 but with just 1 or 2 (which I don't think will happen anyway) it wouldn't matter. Darrell Hazell didn't win more than 3 games in a season during his tenure and he was around 4 years at Purdue. I tend to think we'll win 4-6 games next year but we'll see.
Coaches do get fired in year 3 either during (lately these days) or after the season but still I'd say most make it to year 4.
That is usually the standard practice and I've gone into why I think it's not smart in other threads and how I don't think it affects recruiting as much people think on its face. You're basically saying no coach will be fired with less than 4-5 years on their contract which to me isn't good business in general or fiscally.
A rolling 3 year contract with that rolling year contingent on a certain number of wins threshold being met is as far as I'd go barring a Saban type coach. Even that's not ideal but it's a sort of middle ground. It gives the school an out and keeps them from being so stuck in a contract. Have you seen some of the crazy buyout figures schools are paying. It's ludicrous and part of it is this plague of handing out extensions/money like candy.
To be fair, Coach Ash has made many decisions and said many things as if he is trying to turn the program around quickly.
If Coach Ash is going to act with a short term plan, why shouldn't the fans?
put another name behind put another name behind Rutgers performance and every single person here saying to give him more time would be calling for his head. I would like to work from any of you cuz you do not demand competency in your employees. The man is an absolute shitshow and for two years in a row he allowed an abortion of an offense to continue to live that's on him. How many times did we see his in-game coaching and Shake our heads. He's not the right man for the job people
You are making it up that ash is trying to turn it around quickly. Where has he ever said that? Quotes please. Just because you pulled that out of your ass doesn't make it remotely true..he has actually said the opposite, that he would rebuild the right way and it would be a process.
Now tell me. You fire him after 3 years. Who the **** are you gonna convince to come here who won't even be guaranteed to see his first recruiting class as senior's? No coach will magically decide to bet his career on a school like that. None who is worth anything and can get another job where they'd get 4 year's. "Hey we just fired an up and coming coordinator in his first job after 3 years and set back his career. We promise we won't do the same to you though! Pinky swear!"
Your brilliant "strategy" is the equivalent of taking our program and shooting it in the head.
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He may or may not be the long-term answer but I remember you posting yesterday we needed to hire a HS coach and pay him cheap as a serious suggestion. That pretty much almost cancels out any valid point you may have.
Joe P.
What a load of horseshit. He recruited all those guys for that shitty offense, right? Flood is the one who aborted our program.. we return about 17 starters next year..we were a young team this year whether you want to admit it or not. Nobody is saying the last two years were pretty but you do understand the concept of a rebuild right? And if you don't believe we were rebuilding..I pray for your battle with dimentia.
1. Ash stated he wanted an exciting up tempo scoring offense. After 1 year, when the offense should have been expected to fail, he hires an OC to run the exact opposite - run first, slow down offense. Like the fans, Coach Ash appeared to panic and changed to an offense that would better suit the players already on the team. Players that aren't his and that he himself said weren't that talented when was hired. And he was right.
It should take 2-3-4 years to change over the roster, condition the players and teach a completely new system. Ash appears to not have wanted to wait those years. He went to instant wins in year 2.
2. Ash has brought in 2 5th year transfers QBs and a 5th year RB and started them. This isn't bad - if the thinking is, we need to give time for Oden/Lewis/Backshear to develop and redshirt. Alternatively, don't bring in the 5th years and let the kids get real playing time and a chance to develop. Ash brought in 5th years but then still burned red shirts for limited playing time for the freshman. I'm not even sure what the thinking was here. It seems like scrambling for wins immediately with no long term development plan.
3. Game Week Press Conference for MSU, someone asked about the possibility of getting playing time for younger players- specifically Fogg. Ash responded by saying basically "we already know what we got with them. We are playing to win this game. Winning this game is more important than getting them reps here or there". In Ashs defense, he appears to have realized his mistake and went to Lewis early.
Around 6:30 mark:
All of these scream "we need to win games now this year" to me.
Ash future - I like Ash and trust him to get the defense on track. I'd consider an extension now with the following stipulations:
1. Fire Kill. Hire an OC that runs the system Ash wanted from the beginning. Acknowledge it is going to take at minimum 2 years for the system to start working. Trust Ash and the new OC.
2. No more 5th year QBs. Next year Gio and Lewis play and Sit/Chatman redshirt and learn the system. Unless Sit/Chat are head and shoulders above and will start. Then play them.
We need to stop coaching and playing for immediate wins. Everyone says the talent is low, flood left a disaster but nobody wants to actually live through a rebuild.
2018 isn't our year. Plan for 2019-2020-2021 to compete and challenge OSU-PSU-UM-MSU.
See we actually do agree for the most part.
In just disagree with how Ash is going about it.
He should win 6 games next year or be canned.
Remember, we have TX State, Buffalo, and KU OOC and Illini as a crossover at home. We also have NW at home after they lose a ton of seniors.
If we cannot win 3 OOC and another 3 B1G wins Ash will never do anything here.
Remember, we have TX State, Buffalo, and KU OOC and Illini as a crossover at home. We also have NW at home after they lose a ton of seniors.
If we cannot win 3 OOC and another 3 B1G wins Ash will never do anything here.
Well that's the thing, we're not exactly like any other B1G or SEC program, hell even ACC, PAC12 or Big12 program. Point out one that will make $14.6 mil. this year from their conference, then you can say we're like another B1G or SEC program. Like I say we're B1G in name only right now. However not an equal member at this point, actually only a little more than a 1/4 member. Conference payouts this year $51.2 mil., while we're still broke.
Our players aren’t good enough to run a competent offense, we’re so void of talent, no one could coach this offense.
I differ from the rest of you because I think our offense will be worse next year
I differ from the rest of you because I think our offense will be worse next year
At least 3 more full seasons. Rutgers is not in the same position as a Florida or a Nebraska to switch out coaches on a whim. The Purdue win showed some promise.
I think he should get at least one more year, then lets evaluate where he is. Everyone is saying four years no matter what is out of their minds. What if he goes 2-10 next year? Are we going to keep him just for the sake of keeping him? And he doesn't need to make a bowl next year. 5-7 is progress. Even 4-8 is fine if he has a kick ass 2019 recruiting class.
And I will absolutely lose my sh!t if he get a contract extension. And by the way the rest of the world will be laughing their asses off if that happens. Thats just throwing away money. After next year we have to make a decision, either give him an extension or get rid of him.
And I will absolutely lose my sh!t if he get a contract extension. And by the way the rest of the world will be laughing their asses off if that happens. Thats just throwing away money. After next year we have to make a decision, either give him an extension or get rid of him.
2 more years. Christ we still have a roster that's so poor that we have multiple players playing both ways. What is this the 1940's? I guess it could be worse. We could be Illinois and playing all freshmen. The defense is light years better even though it doesn't show statistically because they're on the field all the time. (40 minutes? WTF?). Ash is a defensive guy so that's not surprising.
Offensively we were at year 0 this year. Our boy wonder O coordinator last year not only wasn't successful on the field he set us back a whole year by trying to change the whole offense to something we never did and didn't have the personnel for. Yes this was Ash's fault, he hired him. But Ash did something it took Schiano 11 years to figure out by bringing in an experienced offensive coordinator. Kill started from scratch without a D-1 quarterback and had to change the whole system again from Mehringer's debacle. And without enough experienced players. So the results were not surprising.
Next year 6-6 and a bowl game. After that, with a little luck, we start competing not only with the lower level teams but the Michigan States, Northwesterns, and Iowas. Ohio State? Michigan? Penn State? Wisconsin? Gonna take longer than that.
Offensively we were at year 0 this year. Our boy wonder O coordinator last year not only wasn't successful on the field he set us back a whole year by trying to change the whole offense to something we never did and didn't have the personnel for. Yes this was Ash's fault, he hired him. But Ash did something it took Schiano 11 years to figure out by bringing in an experienced offensive coordinator. Kill started from scratch without a D-1 quarterback and had to change the whole system again from Mehringer's debacle. And without enough experienced players. So the results were not surprising.
Next year 6-6 and a bowl game. After that, with a little luck, we start competing not only with the lower level teams but the Michigan States, Northwesterns, and Iowas. Ohio State? Michigan? Penn State? Wisconsin? Gonna take longer than that.
$6 million left on his contract. 3 more conference wins over previous seasons. No arrests, Little controversy.
Small. Dopey fan base.
Small. Dopey fan base.
Yes, something he should have thought about or at least considered back in December 2015.
I don't think a low win total of 0-2 will happen next year but I thought he'd be given 4 almost no matter what as far as on the field results. Well the extension basically cements what I was thinking even before it. So 4 years here is definite and I'm actually fine with that but with this extension I think 5 years for sure and possibly 6.
Are we willing to buyout more than 2 years left on a contract if things go awry? That puts you at a 5 year tenure and if you don't even think that that puts you at a 6 year tenure. I think 5 is almost all but guaranteed now IMO.
Next year's schedule is easier enough to get to 6 wins.
- Replace 1AA Morgan State with 2-10 Texas State from the Sun Belt (wins against 1AA Houston Baptist and 2-9 Coastal Carolina). While Texas State is tougher than Morgan State, it should remain a win.
- Replace #13 Washington with 1-11 Kansas. Kansas' only win was against 1AA Southeast Missouri State. RU is trading a loss for a win here.
- Replace 5-7 Eastern Michigan with 6-6 Buffalo. The EMU loss killed the season for me and a loss to Buffalo will kill next season for me. I still think if RU plays EMU 10 times, they win 9. I think this is likely a win.
- Replace 4-8 Nebraska with 12-0 Wisconsin. A loss is likely traded for a loss.
- Replace 6-6 Purdue with 9-3 Northwestern. This is the only trading of a win for a likely loss. However, Northwestern doesn't often string good seasons back to back. (8-4 in 2000, 4-7 in 2001. 7-5 in 2005, 4-8 in 2006. 9-4 in 2008 and 8-5 in 2009, followed by 7-6 and 6-7 in 2010 and 2011. 10-3 in 2012, 5-7 in 2013. 10-3 in 2015, 7-6 in 2016.9-3 in 2017, ?) In the past decade they've had four 9+ win seasons (two 10 and two 9 win seasons) and three losing seasons. They are 76-51 (.598) over the past decade. They were 38-13 in their four best seasons and 38-38 in the other six.
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Should we throw away another million or two because we think that something doesn't happen? Did you think we would lose to EMU? I'm not saying that we should can him in fact as you see above I have set a pretty low bar for him to climb to. But we should evaluate after next year, not this year. Its fair to him, and its fair to us.
If you've seen my posting on coaching extensions and the Ash extension thread you know what I think about throwing away money lol. I was telling you what I'd think would happen regardless of what I think should happen.
But really, I'm okay with 4 years because it lets a coach get all his players in. But if your first 3 years have been very bad, that 4th one better be doozy in the positive direction.
My lord. No patience here. Might I remind everyone that we are in the Big Ten. Can't compare to how Schiano built his team and their record because the competition was way different back then. There has been a lot of improvement and Ash has had 1 recruiting class that was his own. The first one actual recruiting class should be viewed as a pass. I think that Ash needs a leash as long as 6 years before you begin to determine whether he has what it takes. You don't just turn around a team that was abused by the Flood regime in one year in the Big Ten.
We need to get bigger on the OL/DL and get the QB of the future. Protect him and surround him with people that can catch a ball and run. I think Ash knows this and will get us there given time.
Go RU!!
We need to get bigger on the OL/DL and get the QB of the future. Protect him and surround him with people that can catch a ball and run. I think Ash knows this and will get us there given time.
Go RU!!
its all about the qb.....if you have one you have a chance. a qb who is dynamic and can make sometning happen is what we haven't had for as long as I can remember. Until we get that kid,its just going to be more of the same.
