I’ll say this again …we are where we are because three classes of this

[Scarlet Shack]

Class of 2021
Jaden jones
Jalen miller

Class of 2022
Derek Simpson
Antoine wolfolk
Antonio chol

Class of 2023
Gavin griffths
JaMichael Davis

Only Davis is on the team ….one out of 7 doesn’t cut it

We need the three and Jmike frosh to return , even if they aren’t perfect pike players ….

Add next years class and hope 6 of those 8 return for the year after and add 3-4 frosh

Build a foundation …retain and develop

That’s what pike is a coach …and the only way we get back to the legit middle of the pack of this league to dance in a couple of years

 

[superfan01]

Nobody stays in college bball more than a year.

 

[biochemist01]

Class of 2021
Jaden jones
Jalen miller

Class of 2022
Derek Simpson
Antoine wolfolk
Antonio chol

Class of 2023
Gavin griffths
JaMichael Davis

Only Davis is on the team ….one out of 7 doesn’t cut it

We need the three and Jmike frosh to return , even if they aren’t perfect pike players ….

Add next years class and hope 6 of those 8 return for the year after and add 3-4 frosh

Build a foundation …retain and develop

That’s what pike is a coach …and the only way we get back to the legit middle of the pack of this league to dance in a couple of years

Antonio Chol is killing it in JUCO. Maybe we can get him back.

 

[G- RUnit]

Should have kept Simpson.
Could have easily retained him.
Fan base turned on him

 

[Kbee3]

Should have kept Simpson.
Could have easily retained him.
Fan base turned on him

Now why would they do that ?

 

[Ridge 22]

Now tack onto that his wonderful work in the portal and it's not hard to see why we are where we are.

 

[Mholinko]

The winning teams by and large are weaving together development, recruiting and NIL if you don’t have at least 2 of the 3 rolling you are screwed

We had maybe 2 at one point and now have 0 of the 3

 

[DECKRU]

Wow looking at that list really puts things into perspective. Those are like Eddie Jordan classes. I did think Jaden Jones was going to be great!

 

[Mr Magoo]

Should have kept Simpson.
Could have easily retained him.
Fan base turned on him

He doesn’t even start for St. joes any longer and he’s shooting 36% from the floor and 30% from three. No thanks

 

[MCKnight2004]

Simpson has fallen to bench play. Can’t play starter minutes shooting those %. Not even in the A10

 

[darkcheck]

It’s a combo of things.

Recruiting during 2021-2023, poor portal picks and team building, coaching and a complete sellout of the core philosophy that brought us success (defense). Finally an overall lack of discipline and accountability

 

[Ridge 22]

It’s a combo of things.

Recruiting during 2021-2023, poor portal picks and team building, coaching and a complete sellout of the core philosophy that brought us success (defense). Finally an overall lack of discipline and accountability

Otherwise all good though, right?

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Nobody stays in college bball more than a year.

Have you looked at the roster of the team we played tonight?

 

[Rutgers25]

I’d have to imagine that any level of due diligence would have allowed him to conclude that Jaden Jones was a flake. I think he’s a little lazy on recruiting. Harper and Bailey fell into his lap. That stretch of recruiting was dreadful.

 

[newell138]

Class of 2021
Jaden jones
Jalen miller

Class of 2022
Derek Simpson
Antoine wolfolk
Antonio chol

Class of 2023
Gavin griffths
JaMichael Davis

Only Davis is on the team ….one out of 7 doesn’t cut it

We need the three and Jmike frosh to return , even if they aren’t perfect pike players ….

Add next years class and hope 6 of those 8 return for the year after and add 3-4 frosh

Build a foundation …retain and develop

That’s what pike is a coach …and the only way we get back to the legit middle of the pack of this league to dance in a couple of years

Those days are gone

 

[RUskoolie]

Pike isn't getting 3 more years to build a team. He has the next 4-6 weeks or he's likely out in 12 months.

 

[newell138]

Just donate more $$$ and all will be solved

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Pike isn't getting 3 more years to build a team. He has the next 4-6 weeks or he's likely out in 12 months.

 

[RUby RED]

Pike isn't getting 3 more years to build a team. He has the next 4-6 weeks or he's likely out in 12 months.

Yep. Portal or bust at this point — there’s not enough P4 level scorers in this year’s freshman class / 2025 class to be a competitive Big Ten team. Now or never for Pike — needs to crush it in this year’s portal or he’ll be packing in no time

 

[RUskoolie]

Someone who has realized he is dead in the water since the Princeton game. You'll see when Lathan leaves this off-season and our best returning player is Grant.

 

[Joey Bags]

Someone who has realized he is dead in the water since the Princeton game. You'll see when Lathan leaves this off-season and our best returning player is Grant.

Grant isn’t coming back either, would bet serious coin on that

 

[darkcheck]

Those days are gone

You mean it’s going to get worse?

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Grant isn’t coming back either, would bet serious coin on that

Look…let’s not speculate . Let’s see what happens

I hear what you are saying . It’s easy to be negative

It stinks …we get to 20-11, a ncaa bid coming …and had all the momentum in the world and got Cliff to come here

And then …recruiting , just as we were arriving as a program ….massively dried up .

We had juniors and seniors who set this place up and we didn’t back fill to replace them …we tried . But didn’t get it done .

The point of this is lack of recruting caught up with us ….and the only way out of it is retain and recruit and build a new foundation again . I don’t see us winning the portal in hoops , and maybe I’m wrong , but I think Pike best chance is to retain and recruit

The next 12 months are critical ….must

1.) retain the three frosh and Jmike
2.) get one Legit multi year starting swing man guard from the portal
3.) sign a class of 2026 that has three top 125-150 or better prospects …two in the back court and and one in the front court
4.) retain 6 of the 8 of the Jmike , the three frosh and four class of 2025 recruits

Without that…I don’t think the foundation for the program to get back to a ncaa level , middle of the big ten level …..

 

[darkcheck]

Look…let’s not speculate . Let’s see what happens

I hear what you are saying . It’s easy to be negative

It stinks …we get to 20-11, a ncaa bid coming …and had all the momentum in the world and got Cliff to come here

And then …recruiting , just as we were arriving as a program ….massively dried up .

We had juniors and seniors who set this place up and we didn’t back fill to replace them …we tried . But didn’t get it done .

The point of this is lack of recruting caught up with us ….and the only way out of it is retain and recruit and build a new foundation again . I don’t see us winning the portal in hoops , and maybe I’m wrong , but I think Pike best chance is to retain and recruit

The next 12 months are critical ….must

1.) retain the three frosh and Jmike
2.) get one Legit multi year starting swing man guard from the portal
3.) sign a class of 2026 that has three top 125-150 or better prospects …two in the back court and and one in the front court
4.) retain 6 of the 8 of the Jmike , the three frosh and four class of 2025 recruits

Without that…I don’t think the foundation for the program to get back to a ncaa level , middle of the big ten level …..

To do that you need an eye for talent. The last three classes have shown Coach doesn’t have one anymore.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

To do that you need an eye for talent. The last three classes have shown Coach doesn’t have one anymore.

It’s a legit concern ….but it feels like more than that .

We tried like hell to get mark Armstrong .
We found Cam Spenser
We found Baye Ndongo
We missed on papa Kante
We missed on Desmond Claude
We missed on Kur teng

There is more

But those guys we did identify….and didn’t get it done .

Is it NIL/money? Sone I’m sure . But we need to figure it out and get this right

This is not a dead end situation . We are in a great confrence, have a great home court advantage , have a great practice facility .

We need to get it done on the recruting …

I look at our roster …and ask yourself , outsode the frosh ….who on this team is a top 8 player on another big ten team ???

It’s talent evaluation.
And
It’s recruting

 

[darkcheck]

It’s a legit concern ….but it feels like more than that .

We tried like hell to get mark Armstrong .
We found Cam Spenser
We found Baye Ndongo
We missed on papa Kante
We missed on Desmond Claude
We missed on Kur teng

There is more

But those guys we did identify….and didn’t get it done .

Is it NIL/money? Sone I’m sure . But we need to figure it out and get this right

This is not a dead end situation . We are in a great confrence, have a great home court advantage , have a great practice facility .

We need to get it done on the recruting …

I look at our roster …and ask yourself , outsode the frosh ….who on this team is a top 8 player on another big ten team ???

It’s talent evaluation.
And
It’s recruting

Blending your points together. NIL trumps home court (not scary anymore for any opponents) and any practice facility.

But now we have a bigger problem. Recruits want money, but they also want to play in the ncaa tourney. If we couldn’t do that this year why do any recruits want to come here. It blows my mind we still celebrate a 1976 final four. Was that team great, of course. Do they deserve to be remembered. Yes. But today’s high schoolers don’t care. And they don’t even care about 2019-2022. We’re in a heap of trouble. The only chance is to get an island of misfit toys, with heart and character, get them to buy in, develop them and retain them. AND THEN, and this is the key part, build on that. That’s where we blew it. Before NIL we didn’t recruit well 2021-23. Can it be done, sure, it was done once. However the odds of getting hit by lightning again are slim.

 

[darkcheck]

It’s a legit concern ….but it feels like more than that .

We tried like hell to get mark Armstrong .
We found Cam Spenser
We found Baye Ndongo
We missed on papa Kante
We missed on Desmond Claude
We missed on Kur teng

There is more

But those guys we did identify….and didn’t get it done .

Is it NIL/money? Sone I’m sure . But we need to figure it out and get this right

This is not a dead end situation . We are in a great confrence, have a great home court advantage , have a great practice facility .

We need to get it done on the recruting …

I look at our roster …and ask yourself , outsode the frosh ….who on this team is a top 8 player on another big ten team ???

It’s talent evaluation.
And
It’s recruting

Just a note, Hobbs found Ndongo. Hobbs is gone. Percentage wise that greatly reduces your “hits”

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

It's ugly and a layer of these problems with the program are going to improve, just by eliminating Adidas from the equation.

It was not like the recruiting was elite at any point in time. We just allowed 2 and 3* players to develop, when there were no expectations and no winning standards. If Caleb McConnell, Eugene or Geo made mistakes, it didn't matter because we were last. But the 2018 class was a core group that played 3 to 5 years with Geo Baker etc

But without Nike and the recruiting pool they provide, the leftover pool of players is thinner and these are the results. It makes landing kids like Baye Ndongo more rare, because those types of players are not as plentiful outside the Nike umbrella.

The AD Pat Hobbs made a business decision and it picked up "slightly " more money than Nike, but for hoops, it was a huge detriment to recruiting.

Are there other Adidas or non Nike programs that can win?? Sure but those programs have better resources for those non Nike players.

I'm confident that with Nike back in place, things will get better and the 2024 and 2025 classes appear to be clear evidence of that, if we are comparing them to 2021 to 2023......, but there's no portal shortcuts and there is no chance of replacing Pike until 2028 at the earliest.

Burning 12 to 15M on firing Pike with that amount of buyout is not happening....... and adding another coaching staff at 6 years at 20 to 30M is absurd. Stop lying to yourself about spending money on replacing Pike, when you need 3 things to win in CBB......

A) NIKE
Bl The right conference
C) Time to restock the roster.....

Letter C is where wasting money on a coaching staff change is just burning money.....just redirect that money and help the staff secure better depth, better players and stop whining about what didn't happen last year or this year......discussion on a new coaching staff isn't viable for RU sports (football or hoops) for at least the next 3 seasons.

RU is never outbidding anyone for football players, so holding Pike to an absurd standard for this years portal, is not reality based. If it was, RU would be keeping all of it's 2025 and 2026 football recruiting wins and not losing them 1 at a time......there's no magic wand of money that says RU outbids Ohio State, Michigan, Oregon, USC, Penn State in football, but to think Pike can do that for the most sought after portal players, doesn't make any sense.

The goal is to get 2026 HS recruiting in place and deal with whatever happens this spring. We can't be held hostage by anyone who decides to stay or not stay. You cannot have 3 empty recruiting classes on 2021 to 2023 and think 2 or 3 players in 2024 and 2 or 3 players in 2025, suddenly fixes everything. Unless someone on this board wins Powerball and starts spending at 20M per roster like Ohio State for football, it's not likely to get fixed overnight.

 

[soundcrib]

Knowing we need upper classmen and seniors to be a successful team these days, maybe we shouldn't be so quick to run some of these "underacheiving" freshmen and sophomores out of town so quickly. Pikiell's history with retention is awful and our fanbase was probably supportive of who we ran out at the time. We should be more patient with the Gavin Griffiths' and Derek Simpson's of the world.

 

[fluoxetine]

I’d have to imagine that any level of due diligence would have allowed him to conclude that Jaden Jones was a flake. I think he’s a little lazy on recruiting. Harper and Bailey fell into his lap. That stretch of recruiting was dreadful.

Dude had other solid offers, including Bama and Arizona.

 

[RUDivision]

Look…let’s not speculate . Let’s see what happens

I hear what you are saying . It’s easy to be negative

It stinks …we get to 20-11, a ncaa bid coming …and had all the momentum in the world and got Cliff to come here

And then …recruiting , just as we were arriving as a program ….massively dried up .

We had juniors and seniors who set this place up and we didn’t back fill to replace them …we tried . But didn’t get it done .

The point of this is lack of recruting caught up with us ….and the only way out of it is retain and recruit and build a new foundation again . I don’t see us winning the portal in hoops , and maybe I’m wrong , but I think Pike best chance is to retain and recruit

The next 12 months are critical ….must

1.) retain the three frosh and Jmike
2.) get one Legit multi year starting swing man guard from the portal
3.) sign a class of 2026 that has three top 125-150 or better prospects …two in the back court and and one in the front court
4.) retain 6 of the 8 of the Jmike , the three frosh and four class of 2025 recruits

Without that…I don’t think the foundation for the program to get back to a ncaa level , middle of the big ten level …..

1. JMike Dortch not P4 players Grant and Lathan need another year or 2 of development.

2. Going to need 3 legit scorers/players from the portal

3. Ok but Pike recruiting off a horrific season

4. Retention is a key for development

With all of that it will take Pike 4 years to be competent

 

[shields]

Simpson is not shooting well in A-10.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

1. JMike Dortch not P4 players Grant and Lathan need another year or 2 of development.

2. Going to need 3 legit scorers/players from the portal

3. Ok but Pike recruiting off a horrific season

4. Retention is a key for development

With all of that it will take Pike 4 years to be competent

If you pick a normal guard or 2 from the portal, things are much better than worrying about Grant or Dortch.....neither is a "go-to" player on offense.

The weakness of the roster in recruiting, lands in the backcourt. I like Lino Mark and Kaden Powers, but any normal functional guard, supplements those 2 players.

This is not to pile on Derkack or JWill, hut they are incomplete guards, who are not true 2 way guards who can dribble, pass, shoot, score from 3 or are not "catch and shoot" guards. I could add JMike to that list, but he is improving from last year to this year. This guard recruiting of not having a catch and shoot guard and a guard who can play solid defense, includes Jalen Miller, Derek Simpson, Gavin Griffiths, Jaden Jones and lesser extent, portal additions, Austin Williams, Noah Fernandes. Once you add the same limitations of Martini, Acuff health and the list of pieces that are not HS kids, is lengthy.

If there's 3 to 4M of revenue sharing and another 1 to 2M or so via NIL, in theory, that should land RU with a couple of guards and a solid 2026 recruiting class. I don't think RU is that far away, there are a bunch of teams in the B1G, bunched up in the 7 to 9 conference win range. The league is very competitive and I don't think it requires 5* players to win. The guards or players at Northwestern, Minnesota, Nebraska, Iowa and other places are just better to what we have, once we get past a Geo Baker, Corey Sanders level or Dylan Harper level of guard. The dropoff from a portal transfers of Jacob Young names above who played more than 1 year at RU, is clear.

I think the situation would be more desperate if we were not in the B1G.....the level of competition in our league is more demanding, but it can be done this offseason, especially with Nike finalized. If we were without revenue sharing and still locked in with Adidas, we would land where Washington, Nebraska, and other Adidas programs are now, locked into the bottom half of the conference on a consistent basis for short and long term.

 

[RUskoolie]

Baring a miracle in the portal in the next 4-6 weeks he is likely finished. We can all root for him and grasp at straws ITT but I give it a 25:1 shot we go dancing next year.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Class of 2021
Jaden jones
Jalen miller

Class of 2022
Derek Simpson
Antoine wolfolk
Antonio chol

Class of 2023
Gavin griffths
JaMichael Davis

Only Davis is on the team ….one out of 7 doesn’t cut it

We need the three and Jmike frosh to return , even if they aren’t perfect pike players ….

Add next years class and hope 6 of those 8 return for the year after and add 3-4 frosh

Build a foundation …retain and develop

That’s what pike is a coach …and the only way we get back to the legit middle of the pack of this league to dance in a couple of years

Unfortunately every team is rebuilding every year. Yes some teams are building through high school players but it’s a lot harder now.

 

[LotusAggressor]

Wow looking at that list really puts things into perspective. Those are like Eddie Jordan classes. I did think Jaden Jones was going to be great!

So did the people who convinced him that he could play in the NBA.

 

[G- RUnit]

He doesn’t even start for St. joes any longer and he’s shooting 36% from the floor and 30% from three. No thanks

Missing the point. He wouldn’t need to shoot here. He would have brought much needed speed and defense which is clearly lacking on this team. Team is also woefully short on experience which he brought and a 100% effort and motor guy. Dare say we missed him defensively, with his man to man D, steals and rebounds. His defensive numbers better than his replacements as well.
Not retaining Cliff and Simpson were two huge mistakes.

Good ball handler and foul shooter too.

 

[G- RUnit]

If you pick a normal guard or 2 from the portal, things are much better than worrying about Grant or Dortch.....neither is a "go-to" player on offense.

The weakness of the roster in recruiting, lands in the backcourt. I like Lino Mark and Kaden Powers, but any normal functional guard, supplements those 2 players.

This is not to pile on Derkack or JWill, hut they are incomplete guards, who are not true 2 way guards who can dribble, pass, shoot, score from 3 or are not "catch and shoot" guards. I could add JMike to that list, but he is improving from last year to this year. This guard recruiting of not having a catch and shoot guard and a guard who can play solid defense, includes Jalen Miller, Derek Simpson, Gavin Griffiths, Jaden Jones and lesser extent, portal additions, Austin Williams, Noah Fernandes. Once you add the same limitations of Martini, Acuff health and the list of pieces that are not HS kids, is lengthy.

If there's 3 to 4M of revenue sharing and another 1 to 2M or so via NIL, in theory, that should land RU with a couple of guards and a solid 2026 recruiting class. I don't think RU is that far away, there are a bunch of teams in the B1G, bunched up in the 7 to 9 conference win range. The league is very competitive and I don't think it requires 5* players to win. The guards or players at Northwestern, Minnesota, Nebraska, Iowa and other places are just better to what we have, once we get past a Geo Baker, Corey Sanders level or Dylan Harper level of guard. The dropoff from a portal transfers of Jacob Young names above who played more than 1 year at RU, is clear.

I think the situation would be more desperate if we were not in the B1G.....the level of competition in our league is more demanding, but it can be done this offseason, especially with Nike finalized. If we were without revenue sharing and still locked in with Adidas, we would land where Washington, Nebraska, and other Adidas programs are now, locked into the bottom half of the conference on a consistent basis for short and long term.

JMike improving? His defense has actually regressed and what we needed most this year. Improvement?
Offensively he has improved but appears to have been at expense of defensive game as constantly beat one on one.
Cant have a point guard shoot under 70 % from the line. Yesterday was a clunker when RU needed him to step up with bad imbounds pass, poor shooting and worse foul shooting.

It’s okay to bash Derkack and JWill and Simpson but still stupefied that JMike gets a free pass.

 

[fluoxetine]

Oh good this argument again.

 

[G- RUnit]

Silly me but isn’t our lack of D, the biggest issue?
Virtual identical records as last year.
Which team had more talent?
So What’s missing?

I’ll answer for Flux, who appears in denial.

D!

So oh good this argument again?

Or how about Truth hurts.