It definitely has its advantages but the problem is if he has aspirations of getting into the NFL weather he’s good enough or not, I’m sure he’s aware of GS’s style of play and it’s definitely not a selling point, at least not for QB’s.
I think we should pursue EJ Warner (Temple)
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Since you asked he had TWICE as many completions and 50 more passing yards vs us than Gavin had against a TEMPLE defense along with the same number of TD passes in a game we annihilated them 36-7. Warner fought like hell this year on an AWFUL football team. He had no line, no RB, a TEENY TINY receiving core that could not create separation or win a 50/50 ball to save their life (his top 3 WR's this year were all under 180 lbs and #4 185 lbs) and still played like a warrior all year.
If Warner came here, he would far and away have internally won the job by the end of spring camp. Out of respect to Wimsatt and hoping he stays Greg would refer to it as an "Open Competition" until the last possible moment however make no mistake, EJ Warner would be a MASSIVE get for us
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It's all about the money man. D*ckhead at Penn State has never had much success developing QB's and yet Allar is well on his way to being a 1st round pick in 2025
I would just say this , the really good QB’s will get better & better despite a College coaches deficiencies in developing QB’s ( GS ) has not been so lucky in the QB room similar ( JF ) and this has a lot to do with being a winning program in my opinion.
Do we have the $s to pay both Warner and Wimsatt? Warner is going to want his cash.
I really don't think Warner is going to command big transfer money. He'll take some to lure sure but I havent see any reporting or links to him with any other major programs (Minnesota is the only other P5 school I've seen linked along with a bunch of G5 schools). Now things can change but he's not really a "National Commodity" and I do think that with his Father's money it relieves the stress of maximizing NIL money to him compared to finding the best opportunity to showcase. I firmly believe he would excel here under Kirk C's offense as he is MUCH MORE Tanner Morgan than GW in makeup. He's a full blown gunslinger which would be AMAZING in our offense. We don't use Gavin's leg's, we don't run RPO's, so why keep a QB suited for that style of offense in when #1 we refuse to run that style of offense, and #2 our new OC has shown the ability to succeed in this conference with a gunslinger?
Since you answered. His QBR was 23.2. That’s about the same as GW vs OSU and Iowa.
I wanna put this in the appropriate context... I, me #1 schiano hater on this board who has angered COUNTLESS posters on this board will flat out cry tears of Joy if we got Warner and forgive every past sin Greg has made in regards to offense. If we land Warner, we have a REAL SHOT at 8-9 wins next year. We also have the ability to hang with ANY team on next years schedule. I really can't emphasize how enormous of a get EJ would be for Rutgers
Don’t think we are going to offer. It’s funny how all the GS haters want him to move to the modern game but now wants a pro style QB.
But you want him to come for a discount and make less than Wimsatt. Even though he comes from money, the real world doesn't work that way, the rich always are looking to be richer.
You really don't wanna bring up QBR when making defenses of Gavin... That said did you also care to look at the fact that gavin had a COMBINED 21 completions in those games and just over 300 total combined passing yards? Meanwhile Warner put up 20 completions and 230 in our game alone?
The two aren't comparable as passer's man, Warner is lightyears ahead... Where Gavin has the advantage is in his legs, the issue is we REFUSE to implement his running into our gameplan. We used Gavin's leg's in 2 games this year, 2! Indiana and VT, the rest it was a non factor. If we're not going to run an offense centered around our current QB's strengths, combined with a PROVEN track record of success in 2022 from our OC in this conference with a Gunslinger QB, why on earth would we not go after a gunslinger entering the portal right in our backyard? I'm with you if we ran an RPO/option offense. We don't. So why keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole? Just go get the round hole!
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Who said a discount? Here's the reality man, Warner isn't on ANY top 10 QB portal lists. He's an under the radar guy who'se gonna be lucky to see 2-3 P5 Offers. Whatever we offer him is going to be at or near the top of his NIL money list. Minnesota is the only other P5 school where's there's even reporting on Warner, Do I think we're in a position to match whatever Minnesota can offer? Yea I do! We're not talking about Tennesse, Auburn or some other big donor powerhouse to compete with. I've seen ALOT of chatter about ECU for example... Yes, I 100% expect us to be able to outspend ECU
Question was how did he do against good Ds. The answer is the same as GW against top Ds.
I believe I saw a rating service where is was ranked 11th in the current class of those in the portal. He is not under the radar, the College Football Network is reporting interest from Iowa and Syracuse, so I don't think Minny is the only team with interest. Whether any of these reports are accurate, I don't know, but I guarantee we are not going to be able to lowball his team led by his father.
No you see as GS haters we want greg to stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole offensively. Kirk C had TREMENDOUS success at Minnesota with Tanner Morgan, it's what landed him our job. Tanner Morgan was a Pro Style QB. GW is NOT a Pro Style QB. It's very simple, when you have an offensive coordinator with a proven track record of success with a certain style QB, you don't take an OPPOSITE style qb and implement the same offense. Again I state, we used Gavin's leg's effectively in 2 of our 12 games this year VT and Indiana. If we're going to insist on running a Pro Style Offense, get a gunslinger who can run one! Gavin Wimsatt will never be a gunslinger, he can improve his accuracy but he's never gonna be the guy to drop back 25-30 times a game when you need him to. Warner is that guy.... Understand this is strictly based on the style of offense our coaching staff is best catered to.
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He performed better than GW with MUCH WORSE talent around him. Warner didn't have CLOSE to a Monangai on his roster, and once again I cite he didn't have a receiver over 180 lbs to throw to. Temple's leading reciever last year was a 165 lb twig (for context here, dremel is 185) The offensive line graded out as the third worst in all of college football. Comparing Warner to Wimsatt this year is like comparing Bryce Young to Will Levis... Young doesnt have Derrick Henry in the backfield to take the pressure off. Wimsatt would have been LOST this year without kyle in the backfield, Warner did everything on his own
So now we want pro style O again? I’m confused. It’s GS preventing KC from running pro style because GS wants a spread O? But the O we run sure includes a lot of runs so isn’t that what KC want? Hmmmm
I haven't commented once on what kind of offense we WANT to run, simply the kind of offense we DO run. We don't run an option or spread offense. Every single run is pre-determined. When you have a mobile QB the most effective way to keep the defense off balance is unpredictability and use of RPO. Our offense was laughably predictable this year, and furthermore outside of 2 games we never effectively implemented Gavin's legs to our offensive gameplan even on designed runs... So if we're going to shy away from RPO and designed QB runs, why are we keeping a QB that is innaccurate and doesn't fit our system? Kirk C did not run any Option under Fleck (both at western michigan and Minnesota) or Franklin, so there's no reason to believe it's being implemented moving forward. So when a gunslinger Qb from down the street enters the portal and plays the position almost identically to Tanner Morgan who we know Kirk C worked well with, why not take that chance? Gavin wasn't good this year man, we won IN SPITE of him
Warner factored in 50 plays and had 227 yds 1 TD and 2 Int. QBR 23.2
GW factored in 29 plays and had 222 yds 1 TD and 0 Int. QBR - 60.2
So- apples to apples - lets say GW had the same number of plays- running and throwing 50
He would have had 377 yds and 2 TD and 0 Int
GW was at least twice as good as Warner and maybe even more than that. And the way he plays also was a factor in us having 254 yds on the ground. If you have a statue at QB with a 23.2 QBR- your RB's are not going to really be able to do much.
And with this said- GW and our RB's also had a hard time against the good B1G defenses- could you imagine how much worse Warner would be...
Do you really think comparing Rutgers Defense to Temple's along with the talent surrounding each QB is comparable apples to apples? Come on now, you're smarter than that and know too much about football to even insult me with that nonsense. Also please please don't insult our defense that way as they were easily a top half unit in the Big 10. Saying GW was "twice as good as Warner" is laughable. You don't even believe that so why write it?
Uhuh…. In week 2 completely outmatched. We outmatch temple far more than Iowa or even OSU outmatched us. I don’t think you quite understand, without Warner, Temple likely doesn’t win a game this year, they were THAT bad. Picture the worst Chris ash roster we ever had, light THAT roster on fire, add a QB and Temple this year is about what you have…
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GW was twice as good as Warner in our game. My point, is, that at best- they performed about the same based on the defenses they were facing.
On the same bases:
PSU/Iowa?Mich/OSU are easily elite and better than our defense. Wisc is better than any other defense Temple would have faced and the other teams we played were all most likely as good as or better than other defenses Warner had to face,
We know how GW ended up, which was not good. Based on that- I do not think Warner would have been much better, if he would have been better at all.
Warner had a great game against UTSA who's best win was USF. Very good game against Navy who's best win was UAB and a good solid game against Memphis.
If he had our OL and WR's going against our schedule- He is no where near 3000 yds, 57% or 20 TD. He may very well have passed better that GW- I give him that, but not enough better when you count in GW's runs, to think he would have been better.
I don't want Warner here anymore than you do, but really, the eye test for those of us who were there and the stats don't back up such a statement. 10/21 198 1 TD O Ints vs 20/47 230 1 TD 2 Ints. Now let's be totally honest, put Warner on our team and he throws for over 500 yards against one of the worst pass defenses in FBS football and Wimsatt would be lucky to complete 5 passes playing QB against our defense with Temple's OL, receivers, and running backs.
During our game- Warner looked lost. He played much better than I expected, the rest of the year based on the eyeball test of our game. Didn't we also drop a couple of Int
To me he didn't look lost, he looked like he was under constant pressure with no one to help him. He got beat up so bad in the first 5 or 6 games of the season that he ended up missing I believe about 4 games with concussion symptoms.
First sentence there is factually incorrect. Temple had the third worst graded offensive line in CFB And again I cite, all of their receivers were smaller than Dremel. Temple had no Running game whatsoever, their leading RB had just over 400 total rushing yards this season and Kyle M nearly single-handedly out-rushed temples entire program. Again, take the WORST Chris ash roster we’ve ever had, light it on fire, add Kurt Warner’s son and that what Temple was this year. They were WAGNER bad without Warner.
Gavin can run I agree, what you aren’t grasping is that we only effectively used his legs in 2 of our games! We play a 12 game schedule and refuse to use his best attribute. Couple that with the fact that our new, flashy, highly paid OC has no history of success with running qb’s, rather has shown TREMENDOUS success with Pro Style.
I would agree that depending on the system they’re in GW and Warner could be equally effective. The issue is that here at Rutgers, we don’t run an offense that’s conducive to Gavin’s strengths, meanwhile we DO run an offense a QB like Warner would flourish in. This is all about fit. Warner fits our Offense much better than Gavin. I honestly can’t believe this is even a debate with you. You know enough about scheming and gameplanning to understand this
I’ve thought about this many times. Gavin’s a great athlete and has a tremendous knowledge of the offense. Put him somewhere he can contribute in other ways. As you stated, it’s been done before
Huge news he’s leaving. No shot we can afford him. He’ll have a laundry list of big time suiters. Wouldn’t surprise me if USC made a play assuming Williams leaves
The only thing you missed in your opening paragraph is they played a Wagner schedule too.
Indeed and went 3-9. In spite of having a QB who had a 57.5% completion percentage 23 TD/12 int line and 3000+ passing yards with again I cite, no line, no RB, and the smallest group of receivers you’ll ever see. No exaggeration some NJ High Schools have more size at receiver than Temple did this year. Take away that QB and that team doesn’t win a game.
I really can’t emphasize how massive of a get Warner would be for us. Legitimately gets us to 8 wins next year
we'll take ANY style QB. Make no mistake, Gavin is a top athlete masquerading as a QB but he isn't one. The position requires much, much better passing ability. Third string Big10 QBs have outplayed him. Has he ever been the better QB in any game, even in the games we won ?
Judging QBs only on running ability and athleticism is no different than judging WRs on tackling ability.
And yet, what talented QB would actually come here to be a backup ?
NW - Gavin head and shoulders the better QB
Temple- GW much better
VaTech - GW better
Mich- JJ got him but it was pretty close and a good GW game - the pick 6 hurt
Indiana - GW carried that game on his feet
PSU- Alar was better but it was close
Disagree. There wasn't a real competition in '23 and there sure as hell isn't going to be a competition in '24. Only thing that could force Schiano's hand to make a change is a nosedive midway through the season, and even then it's not certain because he's got about half his contract left.
That’s what they tell the media, but if you go get someone in the portal, especially at QB, they are only coming because they are starting.
McLane Carter didn’t beat Art for the QB, he was going to be the starter no matter what the media reported on the QB competition. Same with Vedral.
