I played in the band at Navy in 1998 when we won a dramatic, close one. Even back then I remember the doofuses who got dorked out by things like formation marching, spinning rifles, and the singing of an Alma mater. IT'S A FOOTBALL GAME. Sure, be respectful, and take it super seriously if you want to. But some people....don't care. It means nothing. It's a show. Ceremony. Ritual. Should the mascot have stood quietly? Yeah, probably. But who honesty gives a frack? Grow up.
I was very embarrassed by our mascot at the end of the game.
- Thread starter DJ Spanky
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I played in the band at Navy in 1998 when we won a dramatic, close one. Even back then I remember the doofuses who got dorked out by things like formation marching, spinning rifles, and the singing of an Alma mater. IT'S A FOOTBALL GAME. Sure, be respectful, and take it super seriously if you want to. But some people....don't care. It means nothing. It's a show. Ceremony. Ritual. Should the mascot have stood quietly? Yeah, probably. But who honesty gives a frack? Grow up.
Mascot had a brain fart. No need to fan internet hysteria and make this bigger than it should be. I'm sure someone will bring it to his/her attention and it won't happen again. Honestly, some posters make it easy for columnists to troll these boards and have field day slamming Rutgers. By and large, Rutgers football has had a good, respectful relationship with the academies outside of a couple of isolated incidents (GS at Navy and the drunken students shouting stuff that I didn't hear).
This thread is proof positive that this board will complain about anything.
I didn't see the mascot at the end of the game, but from my seat in section 5 close to the field, I saw the mascot interact with the fans all through the game. As someone mentioned above, he went out of his way to pose with children. He constantly came up from the field and on to the concourse to pose. I saw him even get a request from media photographers on the field to pose with him! I imagine he was doing what a mascot is supposed to do at the end of a victorious game, it is unfortunate that his timing was not good
My holy Christ....
You heard me Hudson. Ceremonial bric a brac is ultimately completely meaningless. Who cares? It certainly has nothing to do with "supporting the troops." Don't be an a $$hat during the Alma mater but one shouldn't feel the need to treat it like High mass at saint Peters. It's just football.
Spanky is right. Everybody has to up their game when you play at the service academies. That includes us fans and the mascot who is part of the football program. That being said, this has nothing to do with Flood.
The TV guy started to laugh during the alma mater and I was wondering what made them chuckle. Was it funny what our mascot was doing? Maybe seeing our mascot prance around while everyone was serious made him laugh.
Do you think it's just a football game for the Middies and the Cadets? The "marching" and "bric a brac?" The "twirling rifles?" Do you have any real idea why in an age of asymmetric war, where the gals protecting the servers are just as important as the guys with guns, our nation's military academies still instill the "bric a brac?"
Nobody is asking anyone to treat it "like High Mass at St. Peters."
I think it's respectful to do more than "not be an asshat."
Standing quietly and showing respect doesn't have to equal reverence.
Do you permit students to have running conversations while you teach? or do you expect a level of respect between teacher and student? Regardless of how antiquated that thinking is to the 18 year old in the back row?
Decorum is not reverence. It's basic civility.
FWIW, I wasn't there yesterday and I'm certainly not in the "ermaGodI'msooffended" category. On the other hand, your comments happened to strike me as lacking a certain level of civility.
If this thread goes long enough, the Ledger will looking for Video and interviewing Army fans for their disgust and contempt.
The Game part you are referring to was over. THAT part certainly does mean something. But even to call the game part a show is so disrespectful to both teams.
As far as the mascot..the poster who called it a brain fart, etc nailed it. It was a mistake and somebody RU side should have grabbed him at the time . But he/she is fantastic otherwise.
I was standing and watching with everyone else but frankly didn't even notice it as I was focused on the Cadets in the stands.
Not sure if people realize that the West Point cadets are not above completely harassing (rude, vulgar, insulting) the players on the opposing sideline for the entire game. I have been told by someone who experienced this first hand recently. Not a big deal, but it's not like they are the model of decorum.
You have certainly revealed your character with a post like this, and while I am sure you are 100% convinced you are the adult in the conversation ("grow up" to anyone who disagrees with you), I am equally sure that the vast majority of those who attended the academies would say you just don't get it at all, shake their heads, then go back to their work of protecting our nation.
I'm pretty sure zero percent of academy cadets past or present would waste one second caring what the Rutgers mascot has ever done.
I would agree. But that wasn't my point. My point was your condescending description of "bric a brac" "twirling rifles" and calling cadets "part of the show."
If I came and took a shit on your door step, would I be wrong? It's only organic matter that will wash away in the next rain storm. Surely you have other things more important in your life to worry about, no? Or do we agree that there are certain ways we behave in someone else's house?
Note to Rutgers fanbase: If you served in the US military then perhaps I might agree with some these sentiments.... however... most on this board never served any actual time in the service of their country...You would find most of those Army players never once felt a slight yesterday....simply noting the players at Rutgers respect them too much...and for the record this Rutger's coach respects them too...the Rutgers student, who is our mascot, probably never gave it a second thought that he would upset our fans... he always has done a great job and he's the same one as last year ....like too many things Rutgers we use minor incidents sometimes in order to find fault with our current coach and administration ...for the record I served in the US Army during Vietnam... I left college and returned to finish my education 10 years after the fact...try to find other things to whine about Rutgers than the mascot....
This.
I get respect. I get what West Point means to the Country, I get the sacrifices these young officers make for us.
I do not get the vitriol over a costumed character getting a little carried away after a football game, while our team and coaches were HIGHLY respectful of the cadets.
This is JJ Watt's latest Instagram post.
This is why you STFU during the "bric a brac" "rifle twirling" and other ceremonial "marching." The italics is mine...
We play a game. Yes, to many of us it is much more than a game, but at the end of the day it is just that, a game. It is not life or death. We are not going off to war, we are not putting our lives on the line, we are not protecting our country's freedom. But we are in the headlines, we become household names and we are often the role models that children look up to. I am not saying that it is right, but it is what it is. Therefore, when we get the opportunity, it is only right that we honor the true heroes of this county, the men & women who truly deserve the credit, the headlines and the recognition. That is why it is such an honor to carry this flag onto the field, to wear the camouflage gear, to visit with military members and take trips like the USO tour. Not because it looks cool (although I can't deny that it does), but because of what it represents. The hard work, the blood, the sweat, the tears, the lives lost, the families that have sacrificed, the men & women who lay absolutely everything on the line for this country and for our freedom. That is why days like yesterday are so special. That is why we try to use our platform as athletes to honor and show our appreciation for the military. We play a game, we don't deserve the worship that we often receive. You do. So thank you, to every man and woman out there who has previously or is currently serving in our military. Also thank you to their families, who have sacrificed so much as well. You all are the true heroes. You are the ones who deserve the fanfare. Thank you.
This is why you STFU during the "bric a brac" "rifle twirling" and other ceremonial "marching." The italics is mine...
We play a game. Yes, to many of us it is much more than a game, but at the end of the day it is just that, a game. It is not life or death. We are not going off to war, we are not putting our lives on the line, we are not protecting our country's freedom. But we are in the headlines, we become household names and we are often the role models that children look up to. I am not saying that it is right, but it is what it is. Therefore, when we get the opportunity, it is only right that we honor the true heroes of this county, the men & women who truly deserve the credit, the headlines and the recognition. That is why it is such an honor to carry this flag onto the field, to wear the camouflage gear, to visit with military members and take trips like the USO tour. Not because it looks cool (although I can't deny that it does), but because of what it represents. The hard work, the blood, the sweat, the tears, the lives lost, the families that have sacrificed, the men & women who lay absolutely everything on the line for this country and for our freedom. That is why days like yesterday are so special. That is why we try to use our platform as athletes to honor and show our appreciation for the military. We play a game, we don't deserve the worship that we often receive. You do. So thank you, to every man and woman out there who has previously or is currently serving in our military. Also thank you to their families, who have sacrificed so much as well. You all are the true heroes. You are the ones who deserve the fanfare. Thank you.
ruhudson: you know as well as I do...the purpose of military ceremony is twofold:
1)To demonstrate to the public the power and legitimacy of the state.
2)To convince the men fighting that their potential deaths serve a purpose
This explains the historical and cross cultural universality of said customs. You can't have an army if men won't fight. You can't have a legitimate state without an army.
Watt's post doesn't refute this. It exemplifies it. The pageantry at West Point and Annapolis are part of an ancient continuum with the Roman triumph, where the blood of common men is appropriated into a narrative of collective purpose.
That doesn't make such ceremonies inherently good or bad, but a certain level of skepticism toward such pomp is both appropriate and healthy. Note: I am NOT saying to be disrespectful. I'm speaking of the thoughts in my own head. Nothing more. My skepticism is aimed squarely at the power of the state, not the brave individuals fighting.
1)To demonstrate to the public the power and legitimacy of the state.
2)To convince the men fighting that their potential deaths serve a purpose
This explains the historical and cross cultural universality of said customs. You can't have an army if men won't fight. You can't have a legitimate state without an army.
Watt's post doesn't refute this. It exemplifies it. The pageantry at West Point and Annapolis are part of an ancient continuum with the Roman triumph, where the blood of common men is appropriated into a narrative of collective purpose.
That doesn't make such ceremonies inherently good or bad, but a certain level of skepticism toward such pomp is both appropriate and healthy. Note: I am NOT saying to be disrespectful. I'm speaking of the thoughts in my own head. Nothing more. My skepticism is aimed squarely at the power of the state, not the brave individuals fighting.
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That isn't what you posted previously though, is it?
Your standard was, "don't be an assclown...this isn't High Mass at St. Peter's."
I would argue that it really doesn't take much of your effort, nor does it equate "reverence" for the military, to simply stop what you're doing and observe the customs--especially in their house.
I'm not Muslim and I don't particularly drink tea at 3 in the afternoon--but I observed the customs of the tribal leaders I was dealing with--more out of respect, than any "advantage" such behavior might give me in doing my job.
You respect the customs and the sacrifice as a matter of civility, not an implicitly nod to the military industrial complex.
Mascot made a mistake. The RU team and RU fans were respectful and great. I was there and had no idea this mascot incident/slight even happened so think some people may have a hidden agenda watching the mascot rather than short ceremony. Let it go.
Nobody is talking about the effin mascot anymore.
Board police suck...don't be board police.
LL and I are continuing a conversation that is tangential to the mascot. I already stated I don't care if the mascot was doing cartwheels down the sideline during the Army alma mater. This is a broader conversation about how people should behave vis a vis customs they may or may not personally agree with.
Another Vietnam Vet here who concurs with your sentiments RUBOB. Like the f'king cowards in Washington who never served but are quick to put others in harms way, it is usually the chicken hawks who scream the loudest at so called affronts to our national honor, including unintentional slights at a military academy alma mater after a football game by a team mascot. I'm with LL on this one.Methinks Hudson[who I believed has served] has a military baton stuck too far up his arse.. Quoting JJ Watts was special. I was expecting no less than Douglas MacArthur.
People on the Facebook board were complaining about Flood fist pumping and hugging Federico after he made the FG before Halftime...they showed replay of Flood and TV and it was nothing like people were harping about
Respect R-E-S-P-E-C-T whether you want it or not. It was the way my WWII daddy raised me. Even more so as I have no right to be disrespectful with draft number well in 300s
I can't and won't argue with the notion that our men and women in uniform deserve our RESPECT, however, I think there is something off putting (to me anyway) with the current fawning over the uniform and the unblinking fealty to the military.The pendulum has indeed swung from the days when returning vets came home to silence and/or ridicule ( I got spit on when I left Oakland Army Terminal as I completed my tour of duty) to today when people get admonished for not genuflecting at the altar of military obeisance.
I think the respect these days is more personal than to the "military." Many of us see individuals who volunteered to serve whether or not the "military" is operated correctly.
The Navy thing several years ago was 2 rows of A-holes from one fraternity that was yelling F-U Navy. Everyone around them shouted them down and they shut up. It was the asshole reporter that made an issue of it when it was a really minor incident. It was a non event that was ginned up then picked up by other media. It was skillfully misreported and you are being a willing dupe by repeating it.
The Congi Rice thing was just 20 to 30 Muslim students lead by an Muslim RU professor. RU did not pull her invite to speak at the commencement. Rice cancelled on her own. That really doesn't reflect accurately on RU either, but Bill Orielly made it his cause celeb and that got blown out of proportion too.
Then take it outside. LOL
* And we are in agreement on that.
And my post was more of a "roll your eyes" smiley guy at the whole thread. Just seems such a waste of our precious ScarletNation bandwidth. ;)
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