Couldn't agree more. Rice was a good hire and a very good BB coach. Can't argue about Flood. Bad hire and Pernetti owns it. Pernetti was an OK AD who looks like a world beater when compared with the dingbat that replaced him.
In an alternate history where Pernetti stayed AD
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Couldn't agree more. Rice was a good hire and a very good BB coach. Can't argue about Flood. Bad hire and Pernetti owns it. Pernetti was an OK AD who looks like a world beater when compared with the dingbat that replaced him.
Agree that Flood turned out to be a bad hire, but given the circumstances at the time (Jan 2012) it's hard to believe there were many good options for Pernetti with the BE on its death bed and a quality recruiting class hanging by a thread. Maybe another AD would've done a better job hiring, maybe not. I'm not a huge Pernetti fan, just can't kill him for Flood since he never had the chance to follow it through. I believe Pernetti would've managed Flood's bumbles with his 1st recruiting class that fell apart, and definitely avoided Hermann's gaffe-a-thon that prevented RU from turning the PR corner quickly after the Mike Rice debacle.
There's not a single fact about what he did in this post. "Finished the job." What does that even mean other than he happened to be the AD at the time. "Credit for his work in those final stages." Again, what work. Being there. Being happy that the B1G wanted us, and our football team, and our sufficient stadium, and our decent-enough facilities, and our good-fit school and our presence in the NYC market, none of which -- absolutely none of which -- had to do with TP.
Same thing for the argument that he was "in communication" with the B1G before the deal was done. I'd hope so. If he wasn't he'd have been a Homer Simpson like employee. I'd hope he was talking to the B1G once the B1G wanted us. That's pretty easy. But what did he do to make the B1G want us? Answer the phone, call back, call back some more?
And stopping us from panicking? I'm not sure what that is easier. RU got no other offers and ended up in the AAC, where UConn is now and where RU would be now if the B1G hadn't come calling. And don't know what TP did to stop anyone from panicking. In fact, I remember an awful lot of panic and concern in the fan base that we were going to be what UConn is now. And then the B1G came calling. And TP answered the phone . . .
Pernetti going on TV about Rice prior to the media getting the video of practice under Rice was one of the worst things he could have done, Pernetti thought he could make it all go away & instead he made it look like the entire incident was not a big deal & was taken care of with a fine & counseling. The media would never have allowed Pernetti to survive nor would the media have moved on from Rice incident. Pernetti hired Rice even after Rice's Alma Mater, Fordham, passed on him because Rice was too volatile. Sorry but two terrible hires for the two most important sports tells me all I need to know about what the future would have held had Pernetti stayed.
Pernetti was ready to fire Rice over the video tapes but the school tried for the cheap out via the "for cause" dismissal route. I'll wait on your list of viable HC options in Jan 2012 to replace Schiano for what RU would pay.
Like it or not, Tim will always be remembered as the AD to get us into the Big Ten. He's also the AD to preside over our lone "conference championship". And remember, he was a finalist for AD of the year in 2012.
Criticize him all you want, but for those things..he should be praised.
Criticize him all you want, but for those things..he should be praised.
Why did Pernetti hire Rice in the first place???His reputation was well known yet Tim hired him only to watch him quickly self destruct. The sign of a competent AD is to always have a short list of candidates to replace any head coach in the event the coach leaves, it was not my job to have a list of HC options that was the job of the AD who had money to spend but not a very good list of possible candidate. Saving a recruiting class & saving money resulted in the program going backwards quickly & that is on who Pernetti hired & Pernetti himself.
Mike Rice was a coach on the rise in 2010 having led his team to the NCAA tournament twice, and they looked good at the Big Dance. He was 73-31 and had recruiting ties to New Jersey. Many thought it was strong hire at the time.
Like I posted earlier, maybe another AD could have pulled a rabbit out of the hat to replace Schiano for the price RU was willing to pay in a couple of weeks right before National Signing Day, but I have my doubts. I'd like to read your posts about Rice and Flood 4-5 years ago Captain Hindsight.
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you and I both have little info on what had to happen between the big 10 and Rutgers to finally get us in.... I would think there was some negotiation on both sides, you seem to think not..... you also assume that the ACC made no effort to get RU, and that could be wrong, and you and I would not ever know.
a panic move might have been getting an ACC offer and accepting it when things might have gone a little sour.... When the Big 10 pulled the trigger on Nebraska, it set our timetable back..... if there was a quiet ACC offer, another AD might have bitten...... I think West Virginia is an example of a team moving to a conference and regretting it in short order....
I understand what you are saying, you believe Pernetti had little or nothing to do with getting us into the big 10, he had nothing to discuss, did not have to negotiate any terms, etc.... If you think that is the way it went down fine....maybe it did....
you ask for facts, but you also can't really have any to dispute an opposite position
TP spent 3 or 4 years talking to Jim Delany to get Rutgers into the Big Ten. Delany's words, not mine. It wasn't just Tim answering the phone saying "OMG you had me at hello."
Pernetti worked tirelessly for four years to get us where we are today and nothing a few haters on a message board can say will negate that. The Big Ten invite is TP's legacy as AD. That is an indisputable fact.
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and you will get those that dispute this.......... you and I agree.... no one can prove or disprove Tims importance in the process, but it is nice to see that Mr Delany thought Tim was instrumental.
Yep. Schiano and Mulcahy deserve some credit, but TP was a big part of it.
Also, our showing for the 2004 NIT opened some eyes.
The "TP got RU into the B1G" posts are all the same. Here's another one. He "spent 3 or 4 years talking to Jim Delaney." OK, so what did his say? What "talk" did he use to cause the offer to happen? How in the world wold "talk" cause it to happen? What is this magic "talk" you're so convinced by? I haven't seen any specifics on the magic words TP used. These posts are always the same. They want TP to have been the reason, and so they find one. They focus on "talk" and "communication" over a long time and then sometimes "communicating through talk" and then conclude that all that talking and communicating talked RU into the B1G. I don't know why TP didn't use all that magical talking and communicating skill to get someone here other than Flood or Rice.
Careful RC85, you're going to be accused by some of being a Pernetti ball licker simply for stating these facts.
I'd like to add that no one at Rutgers saw "the video" that the rest of America was shown. The one edited with back to back to back to back flare-ups that made it seem like Rice was out of control and abusing players with no rhyme or reason. And while Pernetti did punish Rice and got him counselling and seemingly reformed him, Rutgers and Barchi did nothing to back him up when the scandal broke. Rutgers handcuffed him and did not allow TP to handle it in the media. Worst PR department in the world... and we supposedly teach PR.
As for Flood.. GS hired Flood and made him associate head coach (after he failed at co-OC in charge of the run game). TP was stuck with him when GS left.. made the best of the worst and got us Hamilton, who is the best player we have. Then Flood "wins" a share of the conference title. While Flood was never the answer, retaining him may have been the only reasonable choice both times.
And anyone who thinks TP had nothing to do with getting us into the B1G is an idiot. It took a lot to get us in, and everyone who supported this program through the Shea years has a hand in it. But TP helped.. no denying that.
Really. These TP haters are morons. Let em keep spinning and saying ridiculous things. These same folk don't want to give BM or GS any credit as well. That is not a coincidence. To suit their purposes, they would have you believe that the B1G was a foregone conclusion and TP, BM and GS kept us from achieving all that we can be.
Just look at the wilis' handle.. he chose this handle to mock the speed of one of the speediest players Rutgers ever had. Someone whose speed was noticeable to anyone watching him return kickoffs. His whole handle screams, "What are you gonna believe.. Me or your lying eyes?"
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Your argument gets garbled..... discussing Tims role in getting us into the big 10 is a separate issue from coaching hires and other AD decisions
And when we get back to that single issue, no one has proof either way on how instrumental Tim was..... But he was the AD at the time, the process of us getting in was long and sometimes delayed, which he had to work through.... And Mr Delaney praised Tim and his part in all of this
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As we all know, hindsight is always 20/20. Knowing what we know today, both were bad hires. However, looking back, Mike Rice was a decent hire going in: young, energetic (hungry) coach, track record of success (although at lesser levels), coming off a strong NCAA performance. First year showed promise and hope. The mistake Pernetti made here was how he handled the tapes issue. Being a media guy, he should have realized how that was going to blow up and that the actions he took would not have been sufficient. The Flood hire was just a bad decision. I bought into the notion about hiring a coach to save a recruiting class. Unfortunately, we all learned the hard way on this one. This is why I give the new staff a complete pass on this year's recruiting class. I will give up this class for sake of hiring the right long term coach. Hopefully Ash turns out to be that coach. As far as his involvement in getting to the Big 10, I'm sure he helped facilitate us getting an invite due to his contacts and relationship with Delaney. However, I also believe we would have been offered eventually anyway.
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You should be thanking McCormick not Pernetti
Meanwhile some other poster spins excusing the hires of Flood and Rice are beyond comprehension. He hired them...they were messes that created scandals and set into trouble for this university. Tim owns them. Thats his legacy here. You cant lipstick it
You should be thanking McCormick not Pernetti
Meanwhile some other poster spins excusing the hires of Flood and Rice are beyond comprehension. He hired them...they were messes that created scandals and set into trouble for this university. Tim owns them. Thats his legacy here. You cant lipstick it
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I thank all of our previous AD's, our college presidents, and supported all of them while here....
You are, like Willis, are taking a post strickely about big 10 entry, and expanding into a judgement about Tims AD career
I am not defending his hiring and firing here....
Give credit where credit is due. It was Delany and +20 million TV sets and a pinch of Bob, Greg, Tim, and ole Col. Rutgers any way you want to throw credit around. It boils down to Location, Location, Location & $$$$
In truth it was the BOG back in the post WWII who make a small private school the state university of New Jersey.
Tim was here that's all. The Big 10 was inviting RU regardless, so he sealed the deal and kept communications open, if you want to give him credit for that fine, but really no one has told me anything besides that of why he needs the rose petals that some are throwing at his feet. When people say stuff like Tim Penetti got us in the Big 10..thats just a false statement. He was the AD, he signed players, he communicated...he was not responsible for the Big 10 being interested and he wasn't responsible for our tv market and he wasn't responsible for our previous football success
RU didn't get any offers from the ACC so lets remove that from the equation as well
RU didn't get any offers from the ACC so lets remove that from the equation as well
Willis, I give Pernetti credit for Rutgers' invitation to the Big Ten. Did he use some magical talk? No. Did he pull a rabbit out of his hat and convince the B1G to do something they were disinclined to do? No. Did he do anything differently than most ADs in the same position would have done? Probably not. But that doesn't mean that he did nothing and just happened to get a serendipitous phone call one morning.
In my job, I get credit for things that go right under my watch, even if I don't do anything differently than anyone else would in the same situation. The good stuff still happened under my watch, and I still get credit. Likewise, I get blame for bad stuff that happens under my watch. (There are some exceptions. For example, if I worked for an automotive parts supplier, and I lost a lot of business to Volkswagen because of the diesel fraud issue, I probably wouldn't get blamed, since I couldn't have foreseen that scandal.)
So, yes, Pernetti gets credit for the Big Ten invitation. That doesn't mean that he was the sole architect of the invitation, or was the only one in the history of Rutgers who played a part, or did anything differently than someone else in the same job would have done. And it certainly doesn't mean that without Pernetti the B1G would have passed on Rutgers and we'd be stuck in the AAC. But he did more than just answer the phone, and it happened on his watch, so he gets credit.
Likewise, he gets blame for the Rice fiasco. That also happened on his watch, and he could have foreseen some issues with Rice. When Pernetti hired Rice, he knew that Rice had a reputation as a nutjob (it was one of the reasons that Seton Hall passed on him to replace Gonzo), and Pernetti failed to monitor Rice. It happened on his watch; he could have done something in advance to mitigate the problem; he gets the blame.
When you're an executive-level manager in the real world, that's how it works.
flood would have been fired after 2013. His original buy-out was the lowest in the country for a reason.
Many people contributed to RU improving over the years to be on the B1G radar, but Pernetti guided the school realignment
Many people contributed to RU improving over the years to be on the B1G radar, but Pernetti guided the school realignment
Flood wasn't fired for the same reason he was hired -- no $$$. Cristobal bailed on us, Addazio was out of the running early and Flood was the only other option at the time.
True. He didn't screw it up. Grunninger screwed up on the Big East. This would have been ten times that screw up. So, yes, he didn't screw up worse than Grunninger.
But keep in mind that your post comes so perilously close to admitting the "all he did was be there" response to those who credit TP that it's hard to tell the difference.
It does. But that is because I believe that although Pernetti gets credit for Rutgers being in the Big Ten, but I strongly disagree with the claim of some people that Rutgers would be stuck in the AAC without Pernetti.
There is a lot of room for "Pernetti did what any reasonably competent AD would have done" between "Pernetti just answered the phone" and "Without Pernetti, Rutgers wouldn't be in the Big Ten."
I agree with that. But that's also the easiest part of the job. The harder parts are hiring good coaches, working with coaches to build programs, like what happened with the football program, etc. And when those things have happened before you, in particular with regard to football, and those things entice the B1G, along with the longstanding academic and research status of the university and its presence in the NY market, your competently handling the B1G's decision to invite you gets minimal recognition.
If we're confining our compliments of TP to that, then wer'e fairly close to agreeing. It doesn't adjust my opinion that his coach-hiring history and, in my mind, minimal other accomplishments lead me to believe that things likely would have gotten worse, not better, under his continued tenure, which I think is the question that started this thread.
If Pernetti wasn't fired for his handling of the Rice affair, I don't believe that he would still be AD today.
If you look at the pattern of Pernetti's decision making, it becomes apparent that most of his major decisions were made through the lens of how they impacted the budget deficit. And while Pernetti had marching orders to give priority to the deficit issue, it seems that he primarily addressed the issue by looking for ways to cut expenses rather than ways to raise revenue (with the notable exception of the decision to buy out Nelligan to go with IMG). Considering that Pernetti repeatedly said that Rutgers has a revenue problem, not an expense problem, and considering that he knew that Rutgers was eventually going to the B1G, it is surprising and discouraging that he made his decisions with a focus on cutting expenses.
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Julie surely owns the failure of Flood by not firing him in '13 and hiring a real B1G coach. Pernetti does own Rice and Flood working with big least money in a big least world.
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