Instead of Eddie, what about new S&C coach?

[ScarletDave]

I know the big discussion is whether or not Eddie and the HC position needs to change, but with the talent he's got here and the fight in this team plus the injuries concentrated at one position, I think he should get a fair and full chance. BUT, I think about Chris Ash on the football side and how he said he wouldn't even take the RU job if he couldn't get Kenny Parker to come with him as the strength and conditioning coach. What I'm saying is, in the NBA the players have their trainers/programs hired by themselves but also the organization, whereas in college all those administrative things are really on the HC. So maybe instead of changing HC, Hobbs needs to give Eddie the push/funds to hire REAL assistants and a better S&C program. We see how talented the assistant staff is on CViv's team. With all due respect, I remember at a court club meeting hearing Shoes and the other tall guy speak and I thought to myself, wow this is really a D1 major conference big time school bball coaching staff? It's a shame but it kind of reminds me of Flood and his Hofstra/Iona assistant staff. We need an Ash OSU staff but the basketball version, is my main point.

 

[shields]

Agree with above. foreman next year needs to be 6'8' 225. Look at MSU, they look like they spend a lot of time in weight room.

 

[RUChoppin]

Wholly apart from any discussion about EJ, I do agree that we need a better S&C coach/program for men's basketball.

 

[bac2therac]

supposedly this guy is a NBA S&C coach which to me isn't the proper fit for a college S&C. Give me the S&C guy that Cronin uses at Cincy

 

[higgins3]

Jordan hired his friend from NBA days...these seem to be working out well.No more NBA at rutgers hoops please.

 

[Mr_Twister]

Against a Big Ten opponent this year, a Sec 202 season ticket holder commented that he thinks the Rutgers hoops S&C program consists of pulling Kleenex tissues from the box. Not such an outlandish comment when you compare the brawn of our opponents to our guys. They are recruiting different body types, feeding them differently, giving them different supplements, and doing something different in the weight rooms.

 

[shields]

Right on the money and I remember Marquette had a guard several years ago. Probably 6'3" and weighed 210. Looked like a linebacker and this was before Jordan got here.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Please don't get me started on the S&C program for hoops which has been a major problem since Waters left

 

[shields]

Thank you. Look when we played Michigan State, Valentine looks like a linebacker.

 

[RUChoppin]

It definitely is a different mentality from the NBA. Those guys are professionals and S&C is a part of their job - and most know what they need to be doing, or have people they've hired to keep them in the appropriate shape throughout the offseason and the year.

In college, you have to teach basic concepts of nutrition/hydration/weight training... and build habits and attitudes about how to take care of and improve their bodies. It's a different beast.

 

[bac2therac]

Williams is pudgy, Foreman has no muscle. Part of it is on S&C part of it is on the players themselves. Its a big issue. Optimists just feel we can trot out these thin smaller players against the rest of the Big 10 and somehow they will blossom but that's not how it works. Freeman, Doorson, Diallo, Williams, Laurent, Foreman all need MAJOR off season work in S&C. The only player who is in great physical shape is Sanders. I have no worries with that kid.

 

[jtung230]

S&C is not that important in basketball. Skills and athleticism are more important. Mike Williams was a better shooter in high school. He lost his touch when he bulked up for college ball. Douby was a stick and Durant couldn't bench 185 once at the NBA combine.

 

[RUskoolie]

You guys do realize the irony in complaining about our S&C department but ignorning that facilities are hamstringing any coach who comes here, right?

 

[TrueRU]

Let our basketball players work out with Kenny Parker on the football side. That would give them a jolt.

 

[Mr_Twister]

You guys do realize the irony in complaining about our S&C department but ignorning that facilities are hamstringing any coach who comes here, right?

One of the issues you mention can easily be remedied and is within our control. The other is a problem of alumni with deep pockets and short arms.

 

[knights1212]

It certainly sounds like the new S & C coach of the football team is the real deal. Maybe the B-Ball team can use him as well.

 

[shields]

Foreman especially needs to be bigger.

 

[bac2therac]

You guys do realize the irony in complaining about our S&C department but ignorning that facilities are hamstringing any coach who comes here, right?

um ???? our S&C isn't good, that's something that we can control

 

[bac2therac]

S&C is not that important in basketball. Skills and athleticism are more important. Mike Williams was a better shooter in high school. He lost his touch when he bulked up for college ball. Douby was a stick and Durant couldn't bench 185 once at the NBA combine.

really? I totally disagree with you and the bodies I see in the Big 10 would say otherwise. No one is saying you have to have huge muscle...but you have to have some muscle and cut the bodyfat down. We have players who need an upgrade clearly. Williams? you are blaming bulking up for that lack of touch? he bulked up weight not muscle and he lost his shot because he is playing against competition that is simply better than him

 

[RUskoolie]

um ???? our S&C isn't good, that's something that we can control

We won't have a really good S&C staff without a better structure in place to attract someone good. That is the point I have been making with firing Jordan. It trickles down to all the other departments that a coach oversees. If you have piss poor facilities your coach isn't the best, and he isn't attracting the best staff. If the facilities are non existent or dilapidated that reduces the chances of players developing to their full potential, if we can even convince them to come here and develop with a handicap. I can go on and on but I am not surprised at all that our S&C sucks. It starts with our facility, or lackthereof and goes from there.

 

[RUChoppin]

S&C is not that important in basketball. Skills and athleticism are more important. Mike Williams was a better shooter in high school. He lost his touch when he bulked up for college ball. Douby was a stick and Durant couldn't bench 185 once at the NBA combine.

o_O

Um, yes it is? Especially for the bigs underneath the basket to bang bodies and hold their position for rebounds - but thin guards get worn down running through screens, too.

And conditioning? When you don't have your legs for threes at the end of the game, or your bigs are gassed and not getting back on defense, or you're a step slow on a close out on a shooter late in the game... that's usually on conditioning. Injuries can sometimes be traced back to conditioning, too.

Speed, strength, stamina, flexibility, hydration, nutrition... important to develop all of those things.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I think your style of play also factors into the type of body types you want.

If you want to play a more uptempo wide open style I think your players are long, lean, flexible and have some muscle tone.

If you are a Pitt style bang em and beat em up down low type team you want bigger, more muscular guys.

A combination of both is probably ideal....but, you certainly need some long and lean guys.

 

[RUChoppin]

I think your style of play also factors into the type of body types you want.

If you want to play a more uptempo wide open style I think your players are long, lean, flexible and have some muscle tone.

If you are a Pitt style bang em and beat em up down low type team you want bigger, more muscular guys.

A combination of both is probably ideal....but, you certainly need some long and lean guys.

Agree - though the long/lean guys have to have enough conditioning to be able to run/gun for a full 40 min while still playing aggressive defense. That doesn't necessarily mean they're bulky, just that they have a high level of conditioning to keep their strength even at the end of a full game. You also need to be able to take a foul and still have the strength to finish at the rim.

 

[ScarletDave]

Williams is pudgy, Foreman has no muscle. Part of it is on S&C part of it is on the players themselves. Its a big issue. Optimists just feel we can trot out these thin smaller players against the rest of the Big 10 and somehow they will blossom but that's not how it works. Freeman, Doorson, Diallo, Williams, Laurent, Foreman all need MAJOR off season work in S&C. The only player who is in great physical shape is Sanders. I have no worries with that kid.

LOL

 

[Tango Two]

I know the big discussion is whether or not Eddie and the HC position needs to change, but with the talent he's got here and the fight in this team plus the injuries concentrated at one position, I think he should get a fair and full chance. BUT, I think about Chris Ash on the football side and how he said he wouldn't even take the RU job if he couldn't get Kenny Parker to come with him as the strength and conditioning coach. What I'm saying is, in the NBA the players have their trainers/programs hired by themselves but also the organization, whereas in college all those administrative things are really on the HC. So maybe instead of changing HC, Hobbs needs to give Eddie the push/funds to hire REAL assistants and a better S&C program. We see how talented the assistant staff is on CViv's team. With all due respect, I remember at a court club meeting hearing Shoes and the other tall guy speak and I thought to myself, wow this is really a D1 major conference big time school bball coaching staff? It's a shame but it kind of reminds me of Flood and his Hofstra/Iona assistant staff. We need an Ash OSU staff but the basketball version, is my main point.

Strength and Conditioning Coach:

http://www.scarletknights.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/rich_dalatri_966490.html

 

[LotusAggressor]

There's an association for speed and explosion?

 

[Scarlet Shack]

There has been something wrong with s&c for 10 years

Start with the C. Our guys never have the C. I'll start with that and then hope for more strength

I'm tired of our guys looking for air....while other guys look like they can play for 20 more minutes. This is not a this season problem...this is a 10 year problem

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

There has been something wrong with s&c for 10 years

Start with the C. Our guys never have the C. I'll start with that and then hope for more strength

I'm tired of our guys looking for air....while other guys look like they can play for 20 more minutes. This is not a this season problem...this is a 10 year problem

It certainly does appear that way. Not sure about Rice's 3 years.

 

[jtung230]

Agree - though the long/lean guys have to have enough conditioning to be able to run/gun for a full 40 min while still playing aggressive defense. That doesn't necessarily mean they're bulky, just that they have a high level of conditioning to keep their strength even at the end of a full game. You also need to be able to take a foul and still have the strength to finish at the rim.

we play 7 guys and the core group plays a lot of minutes each game. Not sure how we can say our guys are not in condition. The other team looks fresher because they have a deeper bench and out weight us by 40 lbs.

 

[knights1212]

As for conditioning, young guys should never get tired. I coached cross country in high school for 36 years and am in the NJ State Coaches Hall of Fame. Trust me if these kids ran interval quarters twice a week they would never get tired.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

It certainly does appear that way. Not sure about Rice's 3 years.

Greene...was also an issue with Rice as well....

 

[RUChoppin]

we play 7 guys and the core group plays a lot of minutes each game. Not sure how we can say our guys are not in condition. The other team looks fresher because they have a deeper bench and out weight us by 40 lbs.

You started off by saying you didn't think S&C was important. I said that it was. Choppin-Ohio said that strength wasn't as important depending on style of play. I responded saying conditioning was even more important in that style of play. You respond to me questioning how we can say our guys are not in condition.

It's not that they're not in condition - they don't spend every day on the couch drinking beer watching tv - but we can definitely improve in the area of S&C (all areas, really). Sanders did have some struggles earlier on in the season pacing himself early and getting tired late, but he was new to the team and you can't really blame that on our S&C program. Even when we had a full roster, we dropped off and went cold late in a few games.

Having someone take 17 year olds and teach them how to properly eat, hydrate, build muscle/weight the right way, build endurance/flexibility the right way, etc... is crucially important for the success of any collegiate sport. I used to go to a trainer who helped the men's bball team under Rice... said several players had absolutely zero understanding of nutrition/hydration, didn't know how to prepare meals themselves, mostly ate fast food, and left all the energy bars and power drinks provided to them untouched. It isn't a matter of optimizing/tweaking what the players are doing for S&C already (like it is in the NBA) - it's starting from zero and building knowledge, understanding, and habits.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Greene...was also an issue with Rice as well....

last night I watched the last 2 minutes of the Mitchell 4 point play...they looked fresh at the end of that game.

What i don't get...if we are short on talent AND depth why are we ranked #1 in B1G games in tempo.

i am sure the answer is on the defensive end opponents solve us VERY fast and it isn't a function of being that quick on the offensive end.

 

[RUChoppin]

last night I watched the last 2 minutes of the Mitchell 4 point play...they looked fresh at the end of that game.

Just to note, only three guys played more than 28 minutes in that game, and all were seniors.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Just to note, only three guys played more than 28 minutes in that game, and all were seniors.

Definitely worth noting.

 

[willisneverrana43]

We could start a different thread for each of the areas we think are lacking under Eddie: defensive coaching, rebounding coaching, effective recruiting, strength and conditioning; management of players' off-court commitment, etc. But it gets old. This just really doesn't seem like the type of job Eddie's fit for.