The litmus test on whether we will ever be able to defend at a level high enough to make a run at the dance?
Is This Game…. Our 9th
- Thread starter zappaa
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Why are we discussing things as absolute this or that??
We have a Top 50 to 100 transfer who broke his foot and missed almost 4 months of time during the offseason workouts....
We have a starting center who isn't a starter in theory, but is learning on the job, who played 81 total minutes of games off an ACL tear a year and a half ago. He's probably not meant for a matchup against a smaller OSU that doesn't play a true center.
We have 2 starting freshman playing essentially the 2nd true road game....and a 3rd who can help stabilize the post on offense, but hasn't somehow started yet.
I also have (my opinion but likely fact) 2 lengthy wings as freshman in Dylan Grant and Bryce Dortch, essentially behind veterans who were not brought in to defend and rebound (Hayes and Martini)...
Those players were brought in to help matchup and keep up with the scoring of Ohio State, Iowa, Nebraska, Oregon styles.....and now Penn State, Maryland and Purdue etc, are going into offensive mode as well.
Yet, we are still discussing defense, as if defense is going to save this program or bring Ws.....We have played an elite level defense in spots of the last 2 to 3 years and squeaked into the NCAAs once, got burned the 2nd time scoring 45 points at home in a February home game in 2023 and we are discussing defense??
The evolution of RU basketball is underway......Can RU play better defense and rebound......?? Sure 100%......
A) Start Dylan Grant and burn the redshirt of Bryce Dortch and bolt Martini to the bench for most of the season and live with the lack of offense until they figure it out.......OR
B) See what happens if Ohio State doesn't play the level of defense that Alabama and Texas A&M did and see if Hayes and Martini can find some more shooting airspace and try and keep updating our offensive fireworks....And put the feet to the fire of Hayes, Martini, Derkack, JMike and Grant, to provide some sort of offense and consistency, to help the others who are being asked to carry the entire workload.
This game figures to be in the high 70s to 80+ points for the winner....when opposing teams accumulate talented or capable offensive players, asking for elite defense is one path to stop them...... and the other is to try and score and keep up for 25 to 30 minutes of the game and then let the defense turn up the intensity in the 2nd half or last 8 minutes of a game and get the Win.....
We have a Top 50 to 100 transfer who broke his foot and missed almost 4 months of time during the offseason workouts....
We have a starting center who isn't a starter in theory, but is learning on the job, who played 81 total minutes of games off an ACL tear a year and a half ago. He's probably not meant for a matchup against a smaller OSU that doesn't play a true center.
We have 2 starting freshman playing essentially the 2nd true road game....and a 3rd who can help stabilize the post on offense, but hasn't somehow started yet.
I also have (my opinion but likely fact) 2 lengthy wings as freshman in Dylan Grant and Bryce Dortch, essentially behind veterans who were not brought in to defend and rebound (Hayes and Martini)...
Those players were brought in to help matchup and keep up with the scoring of Ohio State, Iowa, Nebraska, Oregon styles.....and now Penn State, Maryland and Purdue etc, are going into offensive mode as well.
Yet, we are still discussing defense, as if defense is going to save this program or bring Ws.....We have played an elite level defense in spots of the last 2 to 3 years and squeaked into the NCAAs once, got burned the 2nd time scoring 45 points at home in a February home game in 2023 and we are discussing defense??
The evolution of RU basketball is underway......Can RU play better defense and rebound......?? Sure 100%......
A) Start Dylan Grant and burn the redshirt of Bryce Dortch and bolt Martini to the bench for most of the season and live with the lack of offense until they figure it out.......OR
B) See what happens if Ohio State doesn't play the level of defense that Alabama and Texas A&M did and see if Hayes and Martini can find some more shooting airspace and try and keep updating our offensive fireworks....And put the feet to the fire of Hayes, Martini, Derkack, JMike and Grant, to provide some sort of offense and consistency, to help the others who are being asked to carry the entire workload.
This game figures to be in the high 70s to 80+ points for the winner....when opposing teams accumulate talented or capable offensive players, asking for elite defense is one path to stop them...... and the other is to try and score and keep up for 25 to 30 minutes of the game and then let the defense turn up the intensity in the 2nd half or last 8 minutes of a game and get the Win.....
On A its not like Martini is lighting it up from 3 point range so to me you are losing nothing on offense and I think Grant played very well on defense last game especially the hedging on the picks which most of our guys don't do very well and like you said his length was a difference maker
Its too early to give up on Martini
Don't think so. He is overmatched and slow. He has been a liability. Hope he doesn't see the floor.
I'm trying not to but when he came in against Alabama he couldn't even box his man out on a free throw and the guy got the put back(even though it was offensive goal tending)
NJ Hawk....agreeing with your premise and most of the contents. The slope of the curve better be steep and the ending point high
Games need to be won and the product needs to start looking better.
Games need to be won and the product needs to start looking better.
Ace can score 36 and Dylan 24 and we can still lose by 9 if we dont defend.
Martini has value if used properly and I don't see any Alabama or Texas A&M type difficult matchup in any of the next 5 games....he absolutely has to pick up the pace and the adjustment period should be shorter for a senior type of player.
Ohio State, Penn State, Seton Hall, Princeton and Columbia all offer different challenges for Martini, but they're more on the defensive end, vs him not being able to find space to shoot.
Putting him in position or on the court vs a UCLA, Illinois, Maryland or Michigan front line, is asking for trouble.
I believe Grant playing is a great sign IF Grant can playmake off the dribble and not just settle for set-shots or corner 3s.....just because you can hit those shots, doesn't mean the player can't have a bigger impact on the opponents defense.....drive and take the ball to the rim and draw contact or make a pass to a cutting teammate.
I am not as much there in early December, we are likely going to see 3 different versions of RU basketball in 4 months time. This is the sorting out stage and I was very confident we would play well vs Bama and A&M much moreso than Kennesaw State or the previous OOC games.
Pike and this staff are usually able to prepare and device some adjustments, when given adequate time to prepare.
This game is more about the turbulence and consistent pattern of Ohio State being extremely erratic in November and December the last 3 to 4 years.....they have gone with a youth movement in the last 3 years, panicked when losses piled up, only to see their underclassmen develop and finish the season stronger than before.....the only problem with that at Ohio State, are those players outplayed their recruiting status and left early for the NBA (Bryce Sensabaugh, Branham, etc).....and that youth movement was supplemented with grad transfers (Jamison Battle) who also landed in the NBA, but the youth movement got the Head Coach Chris Holtmann fired.
Since the firing, Deibler the assistant was named the HC and signed a 5 year contract.....partly because it was too expensive to pay top dollar for someone else's HC and Diebler did well down the stretch last year......BUT the last 2 weeks since Aaron Bradshaw (Kentucky transfer) assault accusation and being off the roster....and this is his first crisis situation as a HC.....it bears watching how Ohio State handles the game today, things appear to be a little off in Columbus.....and don't think Ryan Day and football losing to Michigan, doesn't add pressure to Diebler and the hoops program.....it does add some turbulent times over the entire sports programs.
It was a simple question requiring a simple answer, not a myriad of different variables.
I understand the end product is a culmination of many things.
But the question was, does today give us an indication of what we are going to see all year defensively?
Wouldn’t you think I far better and obvious defensive effort bodes well?
This is an adjustment period to B1G level basketball......with past Pike's teams, winning at Ohio State required elite defense and rebounding.....winning at scoring teams like Iowa, Michigan State was almost impossible to see happening.
I believe fans have to adjust the way we view basketball, the RU versions in recent years, could only go so far. I would take my chances on this version of offense and the defense gradually improving, vs asking for A+ defense and sub 30% 3 point shooters to go 10 of 21 from 3.....
No I don't put the emphasis on the defense.....defense is based on what lineups are on the floor.
The #1 concern is not panicking and understanding that the Monmouth kid Bashir is not a fluke and can start anywhere in the B1G....and when you play ranked opponents like Bama and A&M, you have to score points.
My concern is figuring out how to get quality minutes and smarter play from JMike off the bench as a guard.....and how many more weeks will it take for Tyson Acuff to be a reliable force off the bench.
As long as Dylan Grant continues to play 15 to 18 minutes a night and Lathan Sommerville gets 20 to 24 minutes a game, things get fixed on both ends of the court quickly.
No, it’s not. He has been awful. Dean Reiber when he was here was better.
I literally have no idea how he got minutes for a good Princeton team. He literally can’t even catch the ball to do the one thing he is supposedly good at, hitting corner threes.
Grant cannot be worse and should get all his minutes.
The bottom line is that RU has to win 15 of the next 23 games to make the tournament. The wins need to start coming soon, so not a lot of time to figure things out.
As much as Martini has not delivered, it comes down to expectations and I didn't hold many expectations from a purely basketball perspective over 35 or some games....BUT there are situations and matchups where Martini "should" be OK and today and the next 4 games should show that.
What fans may incorrectly do as soon as Martini has a solid or somewhat productive few minutes, is to turn around and ask for more minutes and productivity out of him......that is where the staff started the season and it was somewhat costly.....but he hasn't been in elite pressure situations at Princeton, so the staff needed to see what actually happens first.
There's a role for Martini all season long, let's not go crazy asking for 24 minutes a game, 6 rebounds and a couple of 3s per game. Smaller bites and we likely see more productivity out of him.
He has this month to show me something but the way I felt about that little Smurf transfer we had last year is the way I feel about him right now
Hayes and martini are the only ones shooting over 40% from 3…
I am not a stat driven basketball guy, it comes down to what else does a player do, that is considered average or good??
Man to man defense....
Scoring off the dribble.....
Rebounding in traffic against opponents
Passing off drives that result in open opportunities??
If any player checks off any of these boxes from the list above, that player will consistently earn minutes anywhere. Shooting 40% from 3 is irrelevant, if you are allowing layups and 2nd chance opportunities, because you cannot defend, rebound or create offense for your teammates.
You guys are still waiting on defense?
I thought it was pretty obvious this years team was going to be about scoring more than the opponent rather than preventing the opponent from scoring more.
That’s what made this season a true test for Pike. Loaded with talent, yes, but a complete identity shift for him.
I thought it was pretty obvious this years team was going to be about scoring more than the opponent rather than preventing the opponent from scoring more.
That’s what made this season a true test for Pike. Loaded with talent, yes, but a complete identity shift for him.
This team is not going to suddenly or evolve into a squad that makes you work for points and limits good looks…. Not happening
what are your thoughts after watching that train wreck
Martine SLOW is exactly right - like he would be slow in DIII. I have no idea how this was a target for us. People get paid really good money to analyze whether players can translate to a Power Conference - how did we miss on so many players?
Not likely. Except for his buddy at Nebraska Pike is probably the worst coach in the league.
you have been completely off the mark on this team downplaying all the red flags about defense while simply saying we are going to outscore opponents. Well look this team went 9 minutes with just one made fg and 6 points overall (2 ft and a goaltend). There are problems now across the board.
The same thing I mentioned months ago is where I stand....The 5 freshman have to lead this roster and right now, 3 play, 1 kinda doesn't play and 1 could help, but is somehow redshirting.
There is literally no planet where you have a 6'7 Forward and a 6'9 other forward (even at 190 lbs) with length, footspeed and ability to switch defensively and I saw no path for minutes.
If Martini was playing reasonable defense and Ogbole is a proper matchup against smaller lineups, then it "might have" worked.
If you want rebounds and defense, play ALL the freshman....it's not like the upperclassmen are scoring, so I don't see the difference.
Before fans get on me about Ogbole and say he played well, he did OK. At the same time, investing those minutes in Ogbole should pay off, but why not invest those minutes into a better prospect, who can do more things on the court??
If I add in the erosion of JMike Davis and another decision he made to shoot or drive as soon as he touches the ball and a lazy defensively effort where he literally didn't try to move away or off a screen and allows Thornton an easy shot, then he brings no value in playing. Derkack is a bigger version of JMike and he at least tries to defend.
Onto Penn State and Seton Hall.
We do not have a single player other than Harper and Ace who should start on any B1G team. Whose fault is that? I can think of 3.25 million answers as to whose it is.
I don't know what your talking about....I never said this was a good defensive team.
A) Jordan Derkack is a 6'5 guard.....he SHOULD have drawn the assignment of stopping Thornton, the best player for Ohio State.....instead, because Pike is terrified of playing Martini and refuses to play better options in Grant and Dortch at PF, he asked Derkack to guard a 6'8 235 lb, 4* PF, who is good, but not Owen Freeman of Iowa, Reneau from Indiana or the type of players in the B1G....
So you create TWO bad assignments on defense and rebound by placing Derkack in no man's land. And Thornton goes 6-7 for 14 points in the 1st half and Royal gets 22, abusing Derkack on the post and glass.
Instead of burying Grant with no playing time in the 1st 5 to 6 games, he desperately went to Grant in Vegas....but common sense would tell me....smaller quicker forwards on Ohio State, against smaller quicker forwards like Grant and Dortch.
If Grant and Dortch was Antonio Chol, I wouldn't complain....but here's the harsh reality.
Martini is trending towards Woolfork territory....Reiber territory.....Gavin Griffiths territory in terms of game tape.....there is literally no effort to move his feet, no effort to chop down and foul his man, he allows easy layups....
Did Royal score on Grant....?? YES he scored twice, but he at least had to make a couple of moves....and he has not played enough minutes to get into the flow.
I would have never imagined a Pike or this staff burying mobile size and upside, given how difficult it is to find players who can help right now.
I don't see a path where we can improve unless Grant plays 20 plus minutes, Sommerville plays 20 plus minutes and Dortch burns his redshirt and starts eating into minutes of Ogbole against smaller lineups. It is asking way too much of Ace and Dylan right now.
