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James Franklin accused of interfering with medical decisions on players from team doctors

Knight Shift

Knight Shift

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May 19, 2011
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Cult gonna cult. Do they ever do the "right" thing over there?

"Franklin allegedly overstepped his bounds. Seidenberg detailed a situation when Franklin and then-Penn State athletic director Sandy Barbour wanted a player who attempted suicide to be medically disqualified from the team while he was receiving treatment in short-term psychiatric care.


That was just one example and it seemed to be alarming. If that player was medically disqualified, it would’ve caused him to lose his scholarship."


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www.on3.com

Alarming accusations thrown at James Franklin on player medical decisions

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www.on3.com www.on3.com
 
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Knight Shift said:
Cult gonna cult. Do they ever do the "right" thing over there?

"Franklin allegedly overstepped his bounds. Seidenberg detailed a situation when Franklin and then-Penn State athletic director Sandy Barbour wanted a player who attempted suicide to be medically disqualified from the team while he was receiving treatment in short-term psychiatric care.


That was just one example and it seemed to be alarming. If that player was medically disqualified, it would’ve caused him to lose his scholarship."


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www.on3.com

Alarming accusations thrown at James Franklin on player medical decisions

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www.on3.com www.on3.com
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wow, just wow
what a bunch of scumbags
 
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Knight Shift said:
You are the chief apologist for crappy decisions of other coaches, yet you love to crap on ours. 🤷‍♂️
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As I said I don't know all the info.
I certainly don't run with media reports of claims in lawsuits.
I don't have the "hate all things PSU conditioning."
RU has had its criminals, home invasions etc.

Suicide is broad thing and some people will stage things to be manipulative.
Others will have a temporary moment of despair like Deion Sanders.
Some people can get worse falling off team and some can get worse from the stress of staying.
Some get worse going off meds suddenly
There is no one size fits all answer and "mental health" is one of most discredited fields in existence

As for RU coaches I always liked Schiano and the likable teams he builds - as a former defensive player I love his defenses - its his offenses that stink for decades (Kirk's and Fleck's bad too - birds of a feather....).


www.psychologytoday.com

Why the Mental Health System Is Failing Us

Our current understanding of mental illness is deeply flawed. Here's how to think differently.
www.psychologytoday.com www.psychologytoday.com
 
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There is not nearly enough information in the on3 article to arrive at a well-informed conclusion about the situation. All I see are unproven allegations.

Maybe it happened, maybe it didn’t. Obviously the on3 article is failing to provide complete and accurate context critical to understanding what actually happened.

As admirable and fun as being prematurely judgmental and outraged is, I’m gonna pass at this time.
 
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Rutgers Chris said:
Much more info in the original reporting from The Inquirer…
www.inquirer.com

Former Penn State doctor testifies that James Franklin meddled in team’s medical decisions

The team's former director of athletic medicine claims in a lawsuit that he was fired because he refused to “allow a coach to interfere with his medical treatment and return-to-play decisions."
www.inquirer.com www.inquirer.com
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hanging in the Michigan locker room and quoted by franklin. SMH

“The unmotivated player, the out-of-shape player, the hurt player, and the bad player all look the same.”
 
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Rutgers Chris said:
Much more info in the original reporting from The Inquirer…
www.inquirer.com

Former Penn State doctor testifies that James Franklin meddled in team’s medical decisions

The team's former director of athletic medicine claims in a lawsuit that he was fired because he refused to “allow a coach to interfere with his medical treatment and return-to-play decisions."
www.inquirer.com www.inquirer.com
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That article provides a bit more detail on the allegations. But other than a reference to what seems like a very generalized statement from the defense about a lack of evidence, there is no reporting of the defense's side of the story (perhaps they've not yet had their chance).

Thus we're still missing contextual information critical to arriving at an informed conclusion about what actually happened. But we can assume that the petitioner probably stands to gain a bunch of money with the allegations. Maybe he deserves it, maybe he's a nutjob looking to profit after an embarrassing firing for cause.

As for coaches pressuring players to play hurt... shocking, just shocking. Surely PSU is the only place that is happening. 🙂

I dunno - maybe the coach is a total jerk out to harm his players. But if that were the case, I would think we'll see testimony from former players in this case (and perhaps we will, assuming the case is ongoing).
 
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mildone said:
That article provides a bit more detail on the allegations. But other than a reference to what seems like a very generalized statement from the defense about a lack of evidence, there is no reporting of the defense's side of the story (perhaps they've not yet had their chance).

Thus we're still missing contextual information critical to arriving at an informed conclusion about what actually happened. But we can assume that the petitioner probably stands to gain a bunch of money with the allegations. Maybe he deserves it, maybe he's a nutjob looking to profit after an embarrassing firing for cause.

As for coaches pressuring players to play hurt... shocking, just shocking. Surely PSU is the only place that is happening. 🙂

I dunno - maybe the coach is a total jerk out to harm his players. But if that were the case, I would think we'll see testimony from former players in this case (and perhaps we will, assuming the case is ongoing).
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One clarification- the doctor whose testimony is quoted is not the same doctor who stands to financially benefit from this suit. He’d be a third party witness, though potentially sympathetic to his co-workers claims.
 
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megadrone said:
I'd also hold judgement on this -- Franklin is a player's coach. He might have been advocating for the better of his player.
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The testifying doctors (as in more than one) think otherwise. The cult will laugh this off as just the cost of doing business, just like they did the Sandusky tragedy.
 
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Rutgers Chris said:
One clarification- the doctor whose testimony is quoted is not the same doctor who stands to financially benefit from this suit. He’d be a third party witness, though potentially sympathetic to his co-workers claims.
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That's true. It'll be interesting to see if players are brought in as witnesses either for or against the petitioner.

If players are being abused, I'd expect former players to be called to tell their stories.
 
rurichdog said:
So it would have been better for the player to be declared medically disqualified and lose his scholarship, as opposed to what the doctors recommended? I am not following here.
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if need be- try your best to get him a medical retirement so he keeps the scholarship...
 
Former players testifying could be tricky. Could easily see this exchange happening with a player.

"Are you aware HC Franklin advised the medical staff to clear you for play early?"

Yes

"Was this what you wanted as well?

Well yes. I wanted to get back on field as soon as possible.

"Have you ever felt you were ready to play but the medical staff was delaying it? You disagreed with their assessment of your ability to play? You were ready to play through an injury?"

Well.....yes. I definitely felt ready to play early or ready to play through the injury.

"So would it be fair to say that HC Franklin was trying to make your personal assessment of your ability to play occur? He was just following your opinions and backing you up?"
 
NickRU714 said:
Former players testifying could be tricky. Could easily see this exchange happening with a player.

"Are you aware HC Franklin advised the medical staff to clear you for play early?"

Yes

"Was this what you wanted as well?

Well yes. I wanted to get back on field as soon as possible.

"Have you ever felt you were ready to play but the medical staff was delaying it? You disagreed with their assessment of your ability to play? You were ready to play through an injury?"

Well.....yes. I definitely felt ready to play early or ready to play through the injury.

"So would it be fair to say that HC Franklin was trying to make your personal assessment of your ability to play occur? He was just following your opinions and backing you up?"
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If you are a starter- it is all moot. That player is going to be shot up, wrapped up and shut up, if they don’t think they are ready but coach wants them in there.,,
 
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Rutgers Chris said:
One clarification- the doctor whose testimony is quoted is not the same doctor who stands to financially benefit from this suit. He’d be a third party witness, though potentially sympathetic to his co-workers claims.
Click to expand...
and what is missing is other side of the story. I don't know what Franklin and Barbour plan was but I do know that the NCAA and schools have a hardship fund which allows schools to to provide additional money and support. Once a player is declared medically disqualified they can still remain on scholarship and they can provide additional resources.
 
PSU_Nut said:
and what is missing is other side of the story. I don't know what Franklin and Barbour plan was but I do know that the NCAA and schools have a hardship fund which allows schools to to provide additional money and support. Once a player is declared medically disqualified they can still remain on scholarship and they can provide additional resources.
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medical retirement rather than medical disqualification
 
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ashokan said:
He could have been right.
Could have made things worse for player at that time.
Not enough details to get on a high horse just yet
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Doesn't matter. Even if it was bad for the player the cult will defend the program to the last victim.
 
rurichdog said:
So it would have been better for the player to be declared medically disqualified and lose his scholarship, as opposed to what the doctors recommended? I am not following here.
Click to expand...


Sounds more like a doctor was trying to interfere with scholarship decisions.
 
PSU_Nut said:
and what is missing is other side of the story. I don't know what Franklin and Barbour plan was but I do know that the NCAA and schools have a hardship fund which allows schools to to provide additional money and support. Once a player is declared medically disqualified they can still remain on scholarship and they can provide additional resources.
Click to expand...


Kind of like MULTIPLE other PSU players who had career ending injuries but stayed in school. Difference is this player was a danger to himself and people around him. Once a 300 lb kid tries to throw himself out a window it is probably time for him to go.
 
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voltz99 said:
Kind of like MULTIPLE other PSU players who had career ending injuries but stayed in school. Difference is this player was a danger to himself and people around him. Once a 300 lb kid tries to throw himself out a window it is probably time for him to go.
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Mental health is just as important as physical health. They should be trying to help the kid, not just get rid of him.

Take steps to keep him out of a situation where he may be dangerous to others but support him and provide help

You don't think guys like Aaron Hernandez and many many others, were not more dangerous to their fellow teammates.
 
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BTW- in the game of football- a good amount of even "player coaches" will try to circumvent the Doctors or league rules on injury.
 
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yesrutgers01 said:
Mental health is just as important as physical health. They should be trying to help the kid, not just get rid of him.

Take steps to keep him out of a situation where he may be dangerous to others but support him and provide help

You don't think guys like Aaron Hernandez and many many others, were not more dangerous to their fellow teammates.
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The article used medically disqualified from the team, which you wrote to correct as being medically retired. Therefore, if that is what Franklin wanted to do, then wouldn’t that mean he keeps a scholarship, just not a football playing (and NCAA counting) one?

Do individuals still receive medical treatment while they are still on a medically retired scholarship?
 
Mufasa94 said:
The article used medically disqualified from the team, which you wrote to correct as being medically retired. Therefore, if that is what Franklin wanted to do, then wouldn’t that mean he keeps a scholarship, just not a football playing (and NCAA counting) one?

Do individuals still receive medical treatment while they are still on a medically retired scholarship?
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I believe but don't quote me- and I am too lazy to google it. Medically retired, I am almost sure they are entitled to medical as well. and if nothing else, they keep the scholarship. disqualified, is lose everything.
 
yesrutgers01 said:
Mental health is just as important as physical health. They should be trying to help the kid, not just get rid of him.

Take steps to keep him out of a situation where he may be dangerous to others but support him and provide help

You don't think guys like Aaron Hernandez and many many others, were not more dangerous to their fellow teammates.
Click to expand...
That is my whole problem with the testimony. Having him deemed medically unfit to play doesn’t mean they are tossing the kid aside. All it does is allow the school to pay for and do things they aren’t normally allowed to and under NCAA rules. It happens all the times.
 
PSU_Nut said:
That is my whole problem with the testimony. Having him deemed medically unfit to play doesn’t mean they are tossing the kid aside. All it does is allow the school to pay for and do things they aren’t normally allowed to and under NCAA rules. It happens all the times.
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Is medically disqualified the same as medically retired? I can't seem to find the answer- if they are the same thing- then this is a non story
 
yesrutgers01 said:
Is medically disqualified the same as medically retired? I can't seem to find the answer- if they are the same thing- then this is a non story
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I think we’ll know if it’s a non-story when all the evidence from both sides has been presented in court and some kind of judgement has been entered, or when an independent investigation has been concluded.

But the media never waits for that. Is much more profitable to jump all over it with article after article with little concern for accuracy and completeness. Gotta sell the ads.

That’s what happened with the “Carroo scandal” here. The media babbled and people leapt to conclusions and then it turned out to be nothing at all.
 
mildone said:
I think we’ll know if it’s a non-story when all the evidence from both sides has been presented in court and some kind of judgement has been entered, or when an independent investigation has been concluded.

But the media never waits for that. Is much more profitable to jump all over it with article after article with little concern for accuracy and completeness. Gotta sell the ads.

That’s what happened with the “Carroo scandal” here. The media babbled and people leapt to conclusions and then it turned out to be nothing at all.
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Guilty with a $5.25 million verdict. Not much of a defense presented other than a few former sympathetic players. Franklin didn’t take the stand himself.

 
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Rutgers Chris said:
Guilty with a $5.25 million verdict. Not much of a defense presented other than a few former sympathetic players. Franklin didn’t take the stand himself.

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Guilty? Was this a criminal case? If not, if a civil suit, then my understanding is that the jury either finds for the plaintiff or defendant, they don’t assess guilt (directly, at least).

In any event, the jury here, who heard admissible evidence, believed what was said about Franklin, at least to the extent that they found the defendants wrongfully terminated the doctor. So now there’s a story.

Wonder what the school will do, if anything.
 
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