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Leadership

bac2therac

bac2therac

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Jul 30, 2001
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this program has lacked any from the players since maybe Marquis Webb. Longing for the days of Rob Hodgson and Geoff Billet being leaders.

One problem has been the lack of any 4 years players and lack of upperclassmen. Last year although just a one year player I felt that Gettys did fill a leadership role. Unfortunately this year, it didnt seem like the team had any. The upperclassmen of Freeman/Sanders certainly didnt bring leadership. Williams may be the heart and soul but not sure he is the vocal leader that the team needed. So next year if Sanders is back can he be a leader? Not so sure, can he make that leap? I see in the future Baker could be the team leader but again if you do not have that one rock foundation to rally around its going to be tough to get a whole bunch of new players on the same page.

I think two years from now when Baker is junior and Eugene a senior thats when I think you will start to see the signs of program improvement on a consistent basis that are tangible. Next year I just think is going to be a tough year to swallow again for all of us.
 
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Unfortunately, don't see Sanders ever being a leader. So the candidates appear to be Geo Baker, Omuruyi, and/or a yet to be determined player coming in next year. Baker showed some signs of leadership but his physical collapse and inexperience undermined these efforts.
 
why is there always a need to put this team down--when we win a game the message mood certainly changes however when we lose the next week the sky is falling-- one doesn't need to be reminded over and over again as to where this team stands--it's obvious--one stab wound is enough
 
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ru66 said:
why is there always a need to put this team down--when we win a game the message mood certainly changes however when we lose the next week the sky is falling-- one doesn't need to be reminded over and over again as to where this team stands--it's obvious--one stab wound is enough
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lol...the team lost 10 of 11 looking like trash for most of it. They finished last place once again in the conference.

so a thread talking about leadership issues is not relevant...lmfao
 
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bac2therac said:
this program has lacked any from the players since maybe Marquis Webb. Longing for the days of Rob Hodgson and Geoff Billet being leaders.

One problem has been the lack of any 4 years players and lack of upperclassmen. Last year although just a one year player I felt that Gettys did fill a leadership role. Unfortunately this year, it didnt seem like the team had any. The upperclassmen of Freeman/Sanders certainly didnt bring leadership. Williams may be the heart and soul but not sure he is the vocal leader that the team needed. So next year if Sanders is back can he be a leader? Not so sure, can he make that leap? I see in the future Baker could be the team leader but again if you do not have that one rock foundation to rally around its going to be tough to get a whole bunch of new players on the same page.

I think two years from now when Baker is junior and Eugene a senior thats when I think you will start to see the signs of program improvement on a consistent basis that are tangible. Next year I just think is going to be a tough year to swallow again for all of us.
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This is an incredibly important piece to the equation

Candidly, when I was making my prediction for us making a run this year to have a shot to get to the tourney, a big part of that was I thought that Williams/Freeman/Sanders would LEAD strongly, get senioritis and play the best ball of their career, and make this team overachieve. And it is a shame they didn't, as if they did, I think we got enough improvement from Eugene and Thiam, and more than expected from Geo to have made this MSG big ten tournament a real shit.

It didn't happen...and it changed this season big time

The real question is who are next year's leaders and can they make the difference,?

I think it needs to be Geo and Eugene...Geo wants to lead, but it was clear that he was deferring more and more as the year went on and as he hit the freshman wall hard. Eugene certainly can and has the blessing of this coaching staff

However, "then there is Corey".....

How can you get Corey to buy in if he is not the captain and leader of his team as a three year starter? a 1200 point scorer in three years? Yet, how can you name him captain of the team for his senior or year when his track record has been spending the majority of the offseason off campus?

More than anything else...this is the key for next year

I think if he is back AND with a 100% truly buy in....we have a winning record next year. We are going to be better at three and five spots where we were weakest on offense. Going from 13-18 to 16-15 isn't a ridicoulous leap if he buys IN.

The question is...will he return and can he buy in? I just can't see it going well if he returns and doesn't buy in to earn the right to be captain.
 
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Just taking a shot at this question but based on one practice - the Court Club open practice back in October, I can see Peter Kiss taking a leadership role on next year's team- he looked to be a vocal guy pointing and showing guys where they were supposed to be going to in certain drills.
 
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Not easy to find...one of Northwestern's problems was losing Lumpkin, their true leader last season
 
Scarlet Shack said:
How can you get Corey to buy in if he is not the captain and leader of his team as a three year starter? a 1200 point scorer in three years? Yet, how can you name him captain of the team for his senior or year when his track record has been spending the majority of the offseason off campus?

More than anything else...this is the key for next year

I think if he is back AND with a 100% truly buy in....we have a winning record next year. We are going to be better at three and five spots where we were weakest on offense. Going from 13-18 to 16-15 isn't a ridicoulous leap if he buys IN.

The question is...will he return and can he buy in? I just can't see it going well if he returns and doesn't buy in to earn the right to be captain.
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This would be huge for next year - Corey decides once the B1G tournament is over that he's a) going to stay, b) going to spend the offseason wtih the team, and c) going to step into a leadership role.

Fingers ever so firmly crossed.
 
....or he says he is going to play professionally (which may be in his best interest) and Strickland signs the next day.
 
The gap between Corey and Devonte Graham is as huge as the one between Rutgers and Kansas.
 
Omoruyi will be the unequivocal leader of this team next season. He has all of the attributes. But somebody else in the upper-class ranks needs to step up as well.

Corey is a supremely talented athlete, and he can certainly take over a game, but he seems to have an enigmatic personality that doesn't scream "leader," and as somebody said above, he spends a lot of time off campus during the offseason (when a lot of team building and development should be occurring ON campus).

Thiam is just too quiet to be a real leader.

Baker has the attributes, but as a sophomore, will he be too young?

Doorson will be a 5th year senior, but not sure he has the personality type either, plus can you really be a team leader if you only play 10 minutes per game? I suppose so, but the optimal situation is that team leaders are also stat leaders.

Carter will be a junior, but will he be too new to really make a leadership impact?
 
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Corey Sanders is not built for a leadership role....he's a talented player, but not a player that was ever built to do that sort of thing....

I am not against anyone staying or going from the program, but there are lots of instances where other teams splinter in tough spots on....that means the players goals and dreams of the next level are great....that doesn't happen when the best player is training away from the team out of state....or shooting for the next level.

I believe Sanders is just a flawed and talented player but has a lot of gaps in his game that it takes a more mature/dialed in player on and off the court, to focus in on and improve. Someone I trust mentioned how come St. Johns appears to be better without their other star guard Marcus Lovett in the lineup?? He left the season with an apparent knee injury, but many believe he could have made it back by now to play....others have cited that his next stop/hope is the NBA draft or overseas and playing less than 100%, would only hurt his draft stock.

What Lovett did was free up Ponds to freelance more, dominate the ball more, take more shots and control the tempo of the team.....St. John's plugged in a bigger and more meaningful defensive player at Lovetts spot and they don't miss the talented Lovett.....

So it was called "addition by subtraction" for St. Johns....you increase the roles of the next player up, see what he has and move forward. I am not sure that Corey Sanders not as an effective 3 point threat or a player that passes on taking threes and needs to take a dribble or two to take a longer 2 pointer, is effective over a 30+ game stretch.

When it comes to leadership, it was better for Nigel Johnson to play elsewhere and give Baker more minutes than he was ready for....and in this case, I think the lesson learned is Mathis/Kiss and perhaps Strickland and others added this spring can sort out how we want to play.

Eugene and Geo are your likely leaders/captains....not because they are the most talented players or most skilled...I think the newcomers Carter can also be good teammates and buy-in....it doesn't mean there's enough skill to flip 4 to 5 games from losses to wins....but culture matters in sports, especially a sport like basketball....synergy is important....lots of talented teams lack it and never get close to their potential.

I am trusting this staff not just with recruiting, but finding the right kids for the program....on and off the court....not every program has a Mike Williams that is willing to buy in 100%...it's up to the person to do so, regardless of how many jumpers he makes or misses....there are other ways to win games and learn while doing it....

It will be a lot to ask of Eugene and perhaps Baker or whomever steps up to lead in workouts, in the weight room and also off the court with some freshman coming in, looking to set the world on fire. Recruiting the right personalities is important in what Doug Collins at NW and other places try to do....Less talented teams like UVA shed 3 players last spring after a very successful season that fell short of what they thought it should have been....they work in sync against better rosters like UNC and Duke...doesn't mean they are actually better, but they play as a unit, which gives you a chance.
 
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bac2therac said:
this program has lacked any from the players since maybe Marquis Webb. Longing for the days of Rob Hodgson and Geoff Billet being leaders.

One problem has been the lack of any 4 years players and lack of upperclassmen. Last year although just a one year player I felt that Gettys did fill a leadership role. Unfortunately this year, it didnt seem like the team had any. The upperclassmen of Freeman/Sanders certainly didnt bring leadership. Williams may be the heart and soul but not sure he is the vocal leader that the team needed. So next year if Sanders is back can he be a leader? Not so sure, can he make that leap? I see in the future Baker could be the team leader but again if you do not have that one rock foundation to rally around its going to be tough to get a whole bunch of new players on the same page.

I think two years from now when Baker is junior and Eugene a senior thats when I think you will start to see the signs of program improvement on a consistent basis that are tangible. Next year I just think is going to be a tough year to swallow again for all of us.
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BAC, I think you are right on the money. It has been a long time since we had one. The leadership I am missing is someone on the team that refuses to let their team lose on a particular night and does everything in their power to will the other players to step up. I would not even mind it they got in their teammate’s face, who messed up a play and let them know that that should never happen again. The captain issue has created a problem this year. Mike is all heart and soul but Deshawn seemed to clash with him neutralizing him, as did his injuries, and Deshawn was being critical in a bad way to Shaquille , to Duke, to Eugene, and at times to Corey. That I think created some bad chemistry. If Deshawn would admit he screwed up on a play, on a pass, on a failed guarding rotation and owned it , the players would have respected him more but he normally never accepted responsibility . I wish for one game we had Rashod Kent and Joel Salvi back because they would take no shit and would have gotten this team to follow their lead.
Guys like Vince Edwards on Purdue, Tom Tom Nair on Michigan State, Abdul Rahqman on Michigan, are three guys that are integral and respected by their teammates and make great leaders .
I truly believe we will never become a good team again until someone steps up to the leadership role. There is no one on the current roster, neither Corey, nor Geo, nor Eugene that fits the bill either they do not rally the troops or are too soft spoken to lead. It will have to be one of the newcomers or the guys sitting out. I hope someone emerges.
 
Based on our ability to play defense and rebound, it didnt seem like the team needed better leadership. The team just can't shoot.
 
Based on our current roster - the guys who starting next year who can be leaders - skill wise ; personality wise ; locker room wise - are Geo Baker and Eugene. Hopefully some of the newcomers such as Mathis and/or Kiss can fill this role as well.
 
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PiscatawayMike said:
Better days are comin'
We're gonna wake up and break this curse
Better days are on the way
'Cause you know and I know
It can't get no worse

--Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes (Lyrics by Steven Van Zandt)
Click to expand...

how about that we are a sleeping giant? if so lets wake him up
 
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