Maybe Steve Pikiell and Company are still good coaches?

[dpwhite]

Okay, now that we are about a month out from the last Rutgers basketball game and we have seen how many players have been left to, hopefully, be replaced by better fits... what if Steve Pikiell got more out of this team than anyone could have expected?
Think about it, he lost two guys in May and June that he was counting on and recruiting fit around. Noah was being recruiting to compliment Cam and ease some burden on Paul. We know Paul could get Cliff the ball where he wanted it for easy dunks, etc.
So now he's kind of scrambling. Simpson is bumped up to a role he wasn't ready for. Gavin is bumped up for a role he wasn't ready for. He lands Jeremiah, who he's not even sure is going to play. Austin Williams comes in hurt and battles a balky knee all season because that's who's out there. Most thought JaMichael Davis was going to red shirt!
Meanwhile, he's able to get this team to still win 15 games and 7 Big Ten games, including an exhilarating 4 game winning streak. Do I think the offense was good? No. But he also tried to adjust it to be a team that got out on the break (BUT STILL MISSED LAYUPS) because he knew he didn't have reliable shooters. Pikes and company at one point had this team playing as the number 2 defense in the country.
I think Pikes coached this team as well as he could and was hurt by some flaws he couldn't outrecruit after the transfers. Do I think he may have needed to be more prepared for the portal? Yes. Do I think we are seeing that play out now? Yes.
But I definitely think Pikes coached the 23-24 team as well as he could, and probably got as much out of it as he possibly could. Maybe if Mag and Williams aren't battling injuries in the 2nd half (and yes, I understand the controversy of that statement) they could eke out another win or two, but....
Anyway, sorry for the essay, but I do wonder if anyone else could have coached this team up to 7 Big Ten Wins...

 

[Mr Magoo]

Okay, now that we are about a month out from the last Rutgers basketball game and we have seen how many players have been left to, hopefully, be replaced by better fits... what if Steve Pikiell got more out of this team than anyone could have expected?
Think about it, he lost two guys in May and June that he was counting on and recruiting fit around. Noah was being recruiting to compliment Cam and ease some burden on Paul. We know Paul could get Cliff the ball where he wanted it for easy dunks, etc.
So now he's kind of scrambling. Simpson is bumped up to a role he wasn't ready for. Gavin is bumped up for a role he wasn't ready for. He lands Jeremiah, who he's not even sure is going to play. Austin Williams comes in hurt and battles a balky knee all season because that's who's out there. Most thought JaMichael Davis was going to red shirt!
Meanwhile, he's able to get this team to still win 15 games and 7 Big Ten games, including an exhilarating 4 game winning streak. Do I think the offense was good? No. But he also tried to adjust it to be a team that got out on the break (BUT STILL MISSED LAYUPS) because he knew he didn't have reliable shooters. Pikes and company at one point had this team playing as the number 2 defense in the country.
I think Pikes coached this team as well as he could and was hurt by some flaws he couldn't outrecruit after the transfers. Do I think he may have needed to be more prepared for the portal? Yes. Do I think we are seeing that play out now? Yes.
But I definitely think Pikes coached the 23-24 team as well as he could, and probably got as much out of it as he possibly could. Maybe if Mag and Williams aren't battling injuries in the 2nd half (and yes, I understand the controversy of that statement) they could eke out another win or two, but....
Anyway, sorry for the essay, but I do wonder if anyone else could have coached this team up to 7 Big Ten Wins...

The talent was certainly limited and the team couldn’t shoot so they missed a lot of open shot but an often was other than ours, that enabled some of our worst shooters to take a ton of shots certainly would not have hurt. There is no way you can allow Simpson and JMike to take as many jump shots as they did.

I’m not bashing Pike here since I think he’s great for RU and he was able to secure two phenomenal players. However, I could spin this back at you and say if another coach had not recruited these players who cannot shoot, we could certainly have done better as well. It works both ways.

 

[RUChoppin]

Okay, now that we are about a month out from the last Rutgers basketball game and we have seen how many players have been left to, hopefully, be replaced by better fits... what if Steve Pikiell got more out of this team than anyone could have expected?
Think about it, he lost two guys in May and June that he was counting on and recruiting fit around. Noah was being recruiting to compliment Cam and ease some burden on Paul. We know Paul could get Cliff the ball where he wanted it for easy dunks, etc.
So now he's kind of scrambling. Simpson is bumped up to a role he wasn't ready for. Gavin is bumped up for a role he wasn't ready for. He lands Jeremiah, who he's not even sure is going to play. Austin Williams comes in hurt and battles a balky knee all season because that's who's out there. Most thought JaMichael Davis was going to red shirt!
Meanwhile, he's able to get this team to still win 15 games and 7 Big Ten games, including an exhilarating 4 game winning streak. Do I think the offense was good? No. But he also tried to adjust it to be a team that got out on the break (BUT STILL MISSED LAYUPS) because he knew he didn't have reliable shooters. Pikes and company at one point had this team playing as the number 2 defense in the country.
I think Pikes coached this team as well as he could and was hurt by some flaws he couldn't outrecruit after the transfers. Do I think he may have needed to be more prepared for the portal? Yes. Do I think we are seeing that play out now? Yes.
But I definitely think Pikes coached the 23-24 team as well as he could, and probably got as much out of it as he possibly could. Maybe if Mag and Williams aren't battling injuries in the 2nd half (and yes, I understand the controversy of that statement) they could eke out another win or two, but....
Anyway, sorry for the essay, but I do wonder if anyone else could have coached this team up to 7 Big Ten Wins...

Pike is a loyal guy and trusted some guys too much. He got burned, and learned a hard lesson of the new NIL/portal era. He did a good job, imo, making do with the players he ended up with, and has certainly come out harder after the season re: roster management.

The nature of the roster-building game has changed, and he was a little slow to change with it.

 

[dpwhite]

The talent was certainly limited and the team couldn’t shoot so they missed a lot of open shot but an often was other than ours, that enabled some of our worst shooters to take a ton of shots certainly would not have hurt. There is no way you can allow Simpson and JMike to take as many jump shots as they did.

I’m not bashing Pike here since I think he’s great for RU and he was able to secure two phenomenal players. However, I could spin this back at you and say if another coach had not recruited these players who cannot shoot, we could certainly have done better as well. It works both ways.

Again, I tried to address this in the post. I think when Pikes landed some of these players (Simpson) he was still in developmental mode and he may have expected JMike to redshirt.

 

[LeapinLou]

Dave - this post is on brand. :)

Steve Pikiell has the #2 and #3 recruits in the country coming to Rutgers. And one of them is from Tennessee/Georgia. I defy anyone here to tell me something more astonishingly amazing than that.

It's a fan's prerogative to rip him if they so desire. But the vast majority of RU fans love him.

 

[dpwhite]

Dave - this post is on brand. :)

Steve Pikiell has the #2 and #3 recruits in the country coming to Rutgers. And one of them is from Tennessee/Georgia. I defy anyone here to tell me something more astonishingly amazing than that.

It's a fan's prerogative to rip him if they so desire. But the vast majority of RU fans love him.

Oh I agree. Just think in retrospect he still coached these guys up

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

Again, I tried to address this in the post. I think when Pikes landed some of these players (Simpson) he was still in developmental mode and he may have expected JMike to redshirt.

I think Pike is great at teaching defense and rebounding…after we struggled initially you could see some of our guys really start to crash the boards. Maybe he’s among the best in the country here.
Game day coaching - he’s fine. Still stubborn about rotations and sometimes removes players with hot hands. He gets outcoached sometimes and sometimes he outcoaches someone else.
But coaching is more than this. The reason we were caught in the talent deficit this year was the absolute horrific recruiting/portal navigating between the time Cliff was brought in and 2023. Jalen Miller, Dean Reiber, Chol, Derek Simpson, Woolfolk, even Oskar - busts of varying degrees. And no one was brought in - save Jeremiah - that were anything close to adequate replacements.
What’s more, team chemistry has been screwed up the last few years - no leadership to speak of, then we find out Paul annoyed people, then Mag annoyed people (except Gavin). These teams who make deep runs don’t have team chemistry issues. Martini has potential as a leader, but will the guys acccept him? We know Ace and Dylan are great players, but are they good locker room guys and willing to learn?
So in short - and not judging on a Rutgers curve - Pike is a B/B- coach right now. I do think he seems to have learned the portal lessons and I like the pieces he’s added so far. It’s all about next year to see if his trajectory goes up or down - it won’t stay the same, that’s for sure.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Again, I tried to address this in the post. I think when Pikes landed some of these players (Simpson) he was still in developmental mode and he may have expected JMike to redshirt.

I agree with you. I just think some things could have been adjusted for the better based on the facts that the sh*t hit the fan late. I’m not saying some of this was avoidable but some of that 3.2 million salary is for figuring out what to do next, and having as close of a pulse on situations to not get blind-sided, which has happened more than once.

I think Gavin was god awful but I also think he was mis-managed and that is probably supported by the fact that he left. He may turn out to be bust but just throwing him out there to sink or swim was probably not the best approach. We never once ran a set to get him an open drive to the basket. That kind of stuff could do wonders for a kids confidence. His ridiculous forced shots can’t do much for teammates morale either. Then you have Simpson and JMike following suit, thinking “why not?” That’s all coaching. I actually like Pike but too many people think he is a god and nothing is his fault. There’s 3.2 million reasons that says at least some of it is.

 

[TDIrish27]

I think he's a good coach and I'll be curious to see him coach high end talent.

On another note we spend most of the winter and some of the early spring down here in South Carolina . The only NBA stuff we get every game is the woeful Hornets.

I saw where their coach resigned last night and is taking a job in the front office.

If I were them I would hire Dawn Staley-----if she would take it. She's just a helluva coach and I think it would do a ton for the Franchise and even for the NBA.

 

[RUChoppin]

About one year ago (4/7/23), I made this post on the expected roster for this season:

So, making some assumptions about who will ultimately be on the roster next year...

1 - Fernandes
1 - Davis
1/2 - Simpson
1/3 - Mulcahy
2/3 - Spencer
2/3 - Griffiths
3/4 - Mag
3/4 - Hyatt
3/4 - Chol
4/5 - NDongo
4/5 - Woolfolk
5 - Omoruyi

Is that roughly accurate? Gives us a lot of overlap between positions and would allow us a lot of flexibility in lineups (and ability to go big or small)

That would have been a very strong team, imo. Then we ran into the "series of unfortunate events"

4/12 - Hobbs leaves for GTech
4/27 - Ndongo decommits
4/30 - Undergrad transfer portal closes
5/19 - Spencer enters portal
6/9 - Mulcahy enters portal
6/12 - Ogbole commits (coming off knee injury)
7/1 - Grad transfer portal closes
7/27 - J. Williams commits (coming off achilles injury, with expected suspension pending)
8/5 - A. Williams commits (coming off knee injury)
8/6 - Palmquist recommits
8/8-8/18 - International trip

We finalized the roster just 2 days before leaving for Senegal and were still down 3 players just 2 weeks prior to takeoff. And the players we got after the portal closed were all coming off of injury.

It was clear the staff was in scramble mode once Spencer/Mulcahy left.

 

[Eagleton96]

The talent was certainly limited and the team couldn’t shoot so they missed a lot of open shot but an often was other than ours, that enabled some of our worst shooters to take a ton of shots certainly would not have hurt. There is no way you can allow Simpson and JMike to take as many jump shots as they did.

I’m not bashing Pike here since I think he’s great for RU and he was able to secure two phenomenal players. However, I could spin this back at you and say if another coach had not recruited these players who cannot shoot, we could certainly have done better as well. It works both ways.

Yes, but, what are reasonable expectations for Pike? Recruiting at this point is largely a function of NIL money. And he doesn’t control that. He inherited the program and the fan base he inherited. He can take steps to improve it, but that happens gradually overtime. And frankly working with the Rutgers fan base is like trying to herd a bunch of cats with indigestion. Given the recruiting class coming in, and what he’s achieved, seems to me he has maximized what he was given.

So yeah, the recruiting has been subpar for the big 10. But in the era of every player is a free agent, what percent of the blame goes on pike versus the program as a hole that he inherited? If Pike ever left for greener pastures to a better resourced program, my bet is that we’d all be rueing the day, and regretting what we lost as we watched pike go on a tear somewhere else.

But yeah, the players have been deficient. But lots of people here. Can’t see the difference between good players and good coaching. Can’t use logic.

 

[RUBOB72]

I think Pike is great at teaching defense and rebounding…after we struggled initially you could see some of our guys really start to crash the boards. Maybe he’s among the best in the country here.
Game day coaching - he’s fine. Still stubborn about rotations and sometimes removes players with hot hands. He gets outcoached sometimes and sometimes he outcoaches someone else.
But coaching is more than this. The reason we were caught in the talent deficit this year was the absolute horrific recruiting/portal navigating between the time Cliff was brought in and 2023. Jalen Miller, Dean Reiber, Chol, Derek Simpson, Woolfolk, even Oskar - busts of varying degrees. And no one was brought in - save Jeremiah - that were anything close to adequate replacements.
What’s more, team chemistry has been screwed up the last few years - no leadership to speak of, then we find out Paul annoyed people, then Mag annoyed people (except Gavin). These teams who make deep runs don’t have team chemistry issues. Martini has potential as a leader, but will the guys acccept him? We know Ace and Dylan are great players, but are they good locker room guys and willing to learn?
So in short - and not judging on a Rutgers curve - Pike is a B/B- coach right now. I do think he seems to have learned the portal lessons and I like the pieces he’s added so far. It’s all about next year to see if his trajectory goes up or down - it won’t stay the same, that’s for sure.

Still believe rebounding involves more than just the teaching of how to: anticipation…desire ( heart some call it) … athleticism… proper positioning… it also involves taking your opponent out of the play by whatever means …It really is no different than in the past same as back in the early days. You have guys 7’0 “ tall who are not good rebounders. Then you have a 6’2” guy who gets you 5-6 or more . Was Charles Barkley at 6’4 1/2” a good rebounder? Wes Unseld similar size in size or even a Rutgers guy like Rashod Kent considered good on the glass. There are many factors that teaching doesn’t account for.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Yes, but, what are reasonable expectations for Pike? Recruiting at this point is largely a function of NIL money. And he doesn’t control that. He inherited the program and the fan base he inherited. He can take steps to improve it, but that happens gradually overtime. And frankly working with the Rutgers fan base is like trying to herd a bunch of cats with indigestion. Given the recruiting class coming in, and what he’s achieved, seems to me he has maximized what he was given.

So yeah, the recruiting has been subpar for the big 10. But in the era of every player is a free agent, what percent of the blame goes on pike versus the program as a hole that he inherited? If Pike ever left for greener pastures to a better resourced program, my bet is that we’d all be rueing the day, and regretting what we lost as we watched pike go on a tear somewhere else.

But yeah, the players have been deficient. But lots of people here. Can’t see the difference between good players and good coaching. Can’t use logic.

Agree with most of this. Just don’t think he got the absolute best out of what he had left and losing Griffiths, our best recruit ever up until that point leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Others will think he was a miracle worker and that’s fine.

 

[RUBlackout]

Agree with most of this. Just don’t think he got the absolute best out of what he had left and losing Griffiths, our best recruit ever up until that point leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Others will think he was a miracle worker and that’s fine.

While I do like Pike, I do not hold him on this pedestal where he cannot be criticized.

I agree that he didn't get the most out of what he had. We can all argue we were the worst shooting team in all of College basketball and that easily can be viewed in the players not being good but this also has a flavor of coaching in there. I truly hope Pike figures it out fast because next year is crucial for our future

 

[ru66]

While I do like Pike, I do not hold him on this pedestal where he cannot be criticized.

I agree that he didn't get the most out of what he had. We can all argue we were the worst shooting team in all of College basketball and that easily can be viewed in the players not being good but this also has a flavor of coaching in there. I truly hope Pike figures it out fast because next year is crucial for our future

No one's putting him on a pedestal but many love throwing him under the bus which he doesn't deserve.

 

[MHladik919]

I think Pike is great at teaching defense and rebounding…after we struggled initially you could see some of our guys really start to crash the boards. Maybe he’s among the best in the country here.
Game day coaching - he’s fine. Still stubborn about rotations and sometimes removes players with hot hands. He gets outcoached sometimes and sometimes he outcoaches someone else.
But coaching is more than this. The reason we were caught in the talent deficit this year was the absolute horrific recruiting/portal navigating between the time Cliff was brought in and 2023. Jalen Miller, Dean Reiber, Chol, Derek Simpson, Woolfolk, even Oskar - busts of varying degrees. And no one was brought in - save Jeremiah - that were anything close to adequate replacements.
What’s more, team chemistry has been screwed up the last few years - no leadership to speak of, then we find out Paul annoyed people, then Mag annoyed people (except Gavin). These teams who make deep runs don’t have team chemistry issues. Martini has potential as a leader, but will the guys acccept him? We know Ace and Dylan are great players, but are they good locker room guys and willing to learn?
So in short - and not judging on a Rutgers curve - Pike is a B/B- coach right now. I do think he seems to have learned the portal lessons and I like the pieces he’s added so far. It’s all about next year to see if his trajectory goes up or down - it won’t stay the same, that’s for sure.

I think this is fair, the misses from those cycles really caught up to RU this past season...I think some of it was poor evaluation on Pikes/Staff's part and some of it was Pikiell knew he always had veterans to lean on ahead of those young guys...For example, the recruiting class of 2021 (Jaden Jones though he technically enrolled early and Jaden Miller), it didn't matter if they didn't pan out at first because when they were freshmen, Rutgers still had a fifth-year Geo, fourth-year RHJ and Caleb and Paul as a junior, plus Cliff who made a big jump from freshman to sophomore year and a guy in Hyatt who had played a lot of college basketball.

Even in 2022-23, the recruiting misses didn't hurt as much because Caleb/Paul/Cliff all stuck around, Cam was a home run in the portal and Mag developed into an excellent glue guy...where you saw the lack of depth and recruiting start to rear its head was when Mag went down and then this year when Cam and Paul bounced.

Obviously, recruiting is way up for 2024-25, and I think Pikiell realizes now he has to change his portal approach, even if he probably doesn't love it....Hell, Rutgers could have a really good season next year and still have to totally revamp its roster for 2025-26 because of the two one-and-dones and the way guys transfer these days.

 

[RUbacker]

Pike is a loyal guy and trusted some guys too much. He got burned, and learned a hard lesson of the new NIL/portal era. He did a good job, imo, making do with the players he ended up with, and has certainly come out harder after the season re: roster management.

The nature of the roster-building game has changed, and he was a little slow to change with it.

Pike certainly did not expect cam and mulcahy to screw him the way they did and he CERTAINLY did not expect to see Mag quitting on him and his teammates during the season. That’s a lot of backstabbing of a very good and loyal coach. I’m sure he learned a very valuable lesson from these three ex players .

 

[Mr Magoo]

It will be interesting to see how well Pike adapts to the new normal. Historically, his strengths might have been the opposite of where the game has gone…more offense than defense now and way less emphasis on skill development and on finding “diamonds in the rough”. Development of players is turning out to be wasted effort as players take their newfound skills to what they perceive to be greener pastures. Coaches can no longer think past the upcoming season.

He’s going in the right direction by securing Ace and Harper and having “the talk” with several players. Maybe getting screwed over by Cam and Paul will pay off in the long run as a lesson well-learned. Now let’s get a veteran big man and it should be fun.

 

[RUbacker]

It will be interesting to see how well Pike adapts to the new normal. Historically, his strengths might be the opposite of where the game has gone…more offense than defense now and way less emphasis on skill development and on finding “diamonds in the rough” since development of players is turning out to be wasted effort as they take their newfound skills to what they perceive to be greener pastures. You no longer can think past the upcoming season.

He’s going in the right direction by securing Ace and Harper and having “the talk” with several players. Now let’s get a veteran big man and it should be fun.

Schiano adapted and pike will have to adapt as well.

 

[RUBOB72]

Pike certainly did not expect cam and mulcahy to screw him the way they did and he CERTAINLY did not expect to see Mag quitting on him and his teammates during the season. That’s a lot of backstabbing of a very good and loyal coach. I’m sure he learned a very valuable lesson from these three ex players .

It’s over… the year is over for MBB ..did those players act correctly ? No …The only people who care are over it by now… hope he wins a NC along with his current team.

 

[RUBOB72]

Now that is the most intelligent post on this subject since our 9 game losing streak.