Mods- question, Flood

[yesrutgers01]

Hey Guys...Over the past few years, I have seen a few things mention regarding Flood.
*Much easier to deal with as media then Greg
* Has no vision or can't sell his vision to recruits
*To easy on players
*Great Guy
*As honest as they come
*Can't recruit - sometimes called lazy or just were outworked
*Challenging his personal decisions or game plans

All are fair questions and usually on top of the minds of most of us on the board. But overall, it usually seems to slant toward the negative when it comes to Coach Flood except "Kyle" the person and man but I have never felt you guys really had him up there as a HC who could make this team elite.

Did this past year along with some of the coaches he has brought in, changed that in any of your minds?
Does the good start to recruiting(current verbal's are as good as we have ever had(actually better) then ever before, this early.
Does the effort put in this year on the recruiting trail elevate him in your minds? I would love to hear what you guys think...

 

[superfan01]

I'm not a mod
Fair questions but why should i buy into flood now when the people he is selling the program too(the nj recruits) won't buy into it.
. For me, like most, the jury is still out on flood. He will need to beat more teams with winning records and be more competitive in the games against the top tier programs.
His recruiting of the state of New Jersey leaves a tremendous amount to be desired and is anything but elite.

 

[RU4Real]

I'm not a mod
Fair questions but why should i buy into flood now when the people he is selling the program too(the nj recruits) won't buy into it.
. For me, like most, the jury is still out on flood. He will need to beat more teams with winning records and be more competitive in the games against the top tier programs.
His recruiting of the state of New Jersey leaves a tremendous amount to be desired and is anything but elite.

In the annals of ridiculous posts there is reserved a special place for the very most ridiculous posts. When you venture into judgement of a recruiting class that is 10 months from signing, you've basically declared to everyone, "Hey! I think I deserve a spot among the most distinguished and memorable of ridiculous posts. Please consider me."

We hear you.

On a similar note, there will come a moment in time - probably not all that far off in the future - when I will be able to point and laugh at the whole "Flood can't recruit" schtick. You'll know it when it happens. For one thing, I'll be pointing. And laughing.

 

[superfan01]

I know your old and senile but your implying something I didn't say.
To date floods recruiting in state has been subpar. That is over the past 3 years. In the next 10 months that can change and he can also beat more winning teams. If that happens I will be off the fence on him. But he has to get it done and he has not yet.

 

[RU4Real]

I know your old and senile but your implying something I didn't say.
To date floods recruiting in state has been subpar. That is over the past 3 years. In the next 10 months that can change and he can also beat more winning teams. If that happens I will be off the fence on him. But he has to get it done and he has not yet.

You should take a writing class - you're rather hard to follow.

You've said that Flood's "recruiting of New Jersey leaves a lot to be desired" and is "subpar".

Perhaps you'd like to share with the class your definition of "par".

 

[superfan01]

The lack of top 20 commits in nj over the past 3 years leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully that changes but to date his record with top recruits in this state is subpar. How can you argue otherwise.

 

[superfan01]

And I'm not trying to get into a fight over recruiting.
Ultimately flood will be defined how his teams perform on the field the next few seasons.

 

[RUchip]

In the annals of ridiculous posts there is reserved a special place for the very most ridiculous posts. When you venture into judgement of a recruiting class that is 10 months from signing, you've basically declared to everyone, "Hey! I think I deserve a spot among the most distinguished and memorable of ridiculous posts. Please consider me."

We hear you.

On a similar note, there will come a moment in time - probably not all that far off in the future - when I will be able to point and laugh at the whole "Flood can't recruit" schtick. You'll know it when it happens. For one thing, I'll be pointing. And laughing.

Dude your finger must have pins and needles because you nor anyone has been able to point a finger at the Flood can't recruit crowd for years now. We need to get back into top 25 classes again. If Schiano could do it in the Big East then Flood should be easily doing it in the Big

 

[wcfan10]

I know your old and senile but your implying something I didn't say.
To date floods recruiting in state has been subpar. That is over the past 3 years. In the next 10 months that can change and he can also beat more winning teams. If that happens I will be off the fence on him. But he has to get it done and he has not yet.

+1000

 

[vkj91]

Dude your finger must have pins and needles because you nor anyone has been able to point a finger at the Flood can't recruit crowd for years now. We need to get back into top 25 classes again. If Schiano could do it in the Big East then Flood should be easily doing it in the Big

Show you work please......

 

[CranfordKnight]

Two sides to every coin. Schiano grossly underachieved with those classes. Flood is a much better developer of talent, so his ceiling is much higher than Schiano because his recruiting will improve, in my opinion. Schiano's best wasn't good enough, either, and I was a Greg fan.

 

[RU4Real]

Show you work please......

Can we PLEASE end this nonsense once and for all:

Rivals Recruiting Rankings, By Year:

2002: 47
2003: 45
2004: 82
2005: 69
2006: 42
2007: 37
2008: 46
2009: 38
2010: 64
2011: 32
2012: 24

Avg: 48


2013: 45
2014: 57
2015: 53

Avg: 52

 

[NotInRHouse]

Actually everyone is rooting for Flood to succeed and wants him to get top recruits.

You can say a lot of things but I don't think Flood has really demonstrated he can pull in at least a middle of the road B1G class yet

He finished the season nicely, no need to denigrate nor act like he is Nick Saban.

 

[vkj91]

Can we PLEASE end this nonsense once and for all:

Rivals Recruiting Rankings, By Year:

2002: 47
2003: 45
2004: 82
2005: 69
2006: 42
2007: 37
2008: 46
2009: 38
2010: 64
2011: 32
2012: 24

Avg: 48


2013: 45
2014: 57
2015: 53

Avg: 52

I don't even like to add 2012 as it was a shared class. Eliminate that and Schiano drops to 50 ish....

 

[KaKaKen]

Dude your finger must have pins and needles because you nor anyone has been able to point a finger at the Flood can't recruit crowd for years now. We need to get back into top 25 classes again. If Schiano could do it in the Big East then Flood should be easily doing it in the Big

The landscape has changed my blind friend

 

[bryanjints]

I don't even like to add 2012 as it was a shared class. Eliminate that and Schiano drops to 50 ish....

That 2012 class signed with Flood. They didn't sign on with GS.

 

[vkj91]

That 2012 class signed with Flood. They didn't sign on with GS.

Agree, but if you tried to give him credit in some statistical analysis the masses would go ballistic.

 

[bac2therac]

the 2012 class was Schianos...that's why Flood was hired, to keep the close from bolting because of continuity.

classes of 53 and 57 which are slip down from GS do not provide evidence that he can recruit effectively right now. Can it change...perhaps but overall he hasn't shown he can close yet

 

[RuSnp]

Can we PLEASE end this nonsense once and for all:

Rivals Recruiting Rankings, By Year:

2002: 47
2003: 45
2004: 82
2005: 69
2006: 42
2007: 37
2008: 46
2009: 38
2010: 64
2011: 32
2012: 24

Avg: 48


2013: 45
2014: 57
2015: 53

Avg: 52

It's funny that if someone was a pure data guy he'd assume those 2004 and 2005 classes put us in a real hole. In reality they produced two NFL all-pros, countless NFL starters (zuttah, Stapleton, Haslam, Jason McCourty, Courteney Greene), and a number of really good college players (Blaze and Malast and Munoz etc).

Who would have thunk projecting the development of teenagers would be so damn difficult?

 

[RuSnp]

It's funny that if someone was a pure data guy he'd assume those 2004 and 2005 classes put us in a real hole. In reality they produced two NFL all-pros, countless NFL starters (zuttah, Stapleton, Haslam, Jason McCourty, Courteney Greene), and a number of really good college players (Blaze and Malast and Munoz etc).

Who would have thunk projecting the development of teenagers would be so damn difficult?

Oh and I forgot to add arguably the best qb and kicker in our history in Teel and I to.

 

[MoobyCow]

I don't even like to add 2012 as it was a shared class. Eliminate that and Schiano drops to 50 ish....

But by all means include 2002-2005 because the program was in exactly the same condition when Schiano inherited it as when Flood inherited it.

He has 2 of the 3 worst and 3 of the 5 worst classes in the last decade if you're using rankings. Now you can argue (probably with some accuracy) that Flood picked up better kids than the rankings, but I'm not the one who trotted them out to prove a point.

If you just include Schiano's classes since we started going to bowl games (and drop of 12, which I think is pretty sketchy) you get 43.5 which is a good deal better than Flood.

As for Schiano under performing his recruiting rankings (other poster).... Nope, his AVG team finished somewhere in the high 30s to low 40s in the Massey ratings and his avg class was just a bit higher than that. He was about spot on in performing to the recruiting rankings.

I wish people would spend more time trying to be accurate and less time trying to prove a point.

 

[RUInsanity]

Oh and I forgot to add arguably the best qb and kicker in our history in Teel and I to.

The other factor is that many of Schiano's top NJ recruits did not pan out. Think I did an analysis at some point and it was close to 25% success rate on NJ Top 15 under GS. It's a cap shoot unless you are like OSU and bringing in sheer numbers of 4 - 5 stars to the point they become disposable.

 

[RUInsanity]

But by all means include 2002-2005 because the program was in exactly the same condition when Schiano inherited it as when Flood inherited it.

He has 2 of the 3 worst and 3 of the 5 worst classes in the last decade if you're using rankings. Now you can argue (probably with some accuracy) that Flood picked up better kids than the rankings, but I'm not the one who trotted them out to prove a point.

If you just include Schiano's classes since we started going to bowl games (and drop of 12, which I think is pretty sketchy) you get 43.5 which is a good deal better than Flood.

As for Schiano under performing his recruiting rankings (other poster).... Nope, his AVG team finished somewhere in the high 30s to low 40s in the Massey ratings and his avg class was just a bit higher than that. He was about spot on in performing to the recruiting rankings.

I wish people would spend more time trying to be accurate and less time trying to prove a point.

IMO too much time is spent trying to substantiate Flood's existence based on subjective Recruit rankings and things like the Massey rankings. You can only play who is on your schedule. If you look at the situation without emotion, RU played above expectations last year against similar or OOC opponents......and was pounded against teams that one would expect them to be pounded against.

GS was a handsomely paid coach who was.given significant leeway and time at RU to build a team. Many want Flood driven out of town without even near the same margins.

 

[MoobyCow]

GS was a handsomely paid coach who was.given significant leeway and time at RU to build a team. Many want Flood driven out of town without even near the same margins.

A couple things. Schiano became handsomely paid after he changed the fortunes of RU football. He was given more leeway because the program was a shambles when he came on board. Let's not ignore that Schiano was getting some very real heat from the fans after his last couple of years of seasons that looked very much like what Flood has done. That heat came despite the goodwill he had from resurrecting the program.

The simple truth of the matter is that coaches who take over successful programs get less leeway than coaches who take over after the previous guy is fired. Add in that it is inarguable that Flood did not have the resume of a BCS HC and you get a short leash. There's no mystery here and, IMO, no double standard.

TL DR; Fans were getting a bit sick of Schiano. It's not surprising they're not overjoyed with another 3-4 years of similar results under a new coach.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Wow, I guess I missed the posts where the mods give some opinion on how they feel Flood is doing right now.
The OP was not meant to rehash Flood vs Schiano or go back to what ended up being poorly ranked classes in 13-15.
Flood had a surprising year last year on the field but also had some glaring problems such as the blowout. He seems to be growing into the role. I am curious about how the mods feel about him now and how they think he will do in the future.

 

[Extra Point]

To much weight is given to class rank. Yes we want a high rank and generally a high ranking class does well on the field. But when you look at some of Rutgers' high ranked players who boosted the class rank like 'The Rocket', Savage, Huggins and many others, they didn't really do that great for the program. So the bottom line is the win/loss record. I personally don't have a problem with Coach Flood and I think over time that Flood proves to be an elite coach.

 

[RUInsanity]

Wow, I guess I missed the posts where the mods give some opinion on how they feel Flood is doing right now.
The OP was not meant to rehash Flood vs Schiano or go back to what ended up being poorly ranked classes in 13-15.
Flood had a surprising year last year on the field but also had some glaring problems such as the blowout. He seems to be growing into the role. I am curious about how the mods feel about him now and how they think he will do in the future.

This can of worms opens up every time Flood is discussed.....just the way things are on these boards.

 

[RUskoolie]

Wow, I guess I missed the posts where the mods give some opinion on how they feel Flood is doing right now.
The OP was not meant to rehash Flood vs Schiano or go back to what ended up being poorly ranked classes in 13-15.
Flood had a surprising year last year on the field but also had some glaring problems such as the blowout. He seems to be growing into the role. I am curious about how the mods feel about him now and how they think he will do in the future.

If you wanted the mods opinion you should have posted the question on the RT, where they usually answer questions pretty quickly. They are rarely on the free board.

 

[RUsojo]

Wow, I guess I missed the posts where the mods give some opinion on how they feel Flood is doing right now.
The OP was not meant to rehash Flood vs Schiano or go back to what ended up being poorly ranked classes in 13-15.
Flood had a surprising year last year on the field but also had some glaring problems such as the blowout. He seems to be growing into the role. I am curious about how the mods feel about him now and how they think he will do in the future.

The Mods thought the stars were aligning at the end of 2012 before Schiano jumped ship. Since then expectations have been tempered and I think that is all that needs to be known on the subject. Granted IIRC, 2013 class was supposedly not high on RU, but the mods thought the general future of the program was extremely bright. Since the 2014 class debacle and end of season disaster in 2013, Rutgers is now in another holding pattern, even with the B1G at its back and a solid first season in conference.

 

[vkj91]

But by all means include 2002-2005 because the program was in exactly the same condition when Schiano inherited it as when Flood inherited it.

He has 2 of the 3 worst and 3 of the 5 worst classes in the last decade if you're using rankings. Now you can argue (probably with some accuracy) that Flood picked up better kids than the rankings, but I'm not the one who trotted them out to prove a point.

If you just include Schiano's classes since we started going to bowl games (and drop of 12, which I think is pretty sketchy) you get 43.5 which is a good deal better than Flood.

As for Schiano under performing his recruiting rankings (other poster).... Nope, his AVG team finished somewhere in the high 30s to low 40s in the Massey ratings and his avg class was just a bit higher than that. He was about spot on in performing to the recruiting rankings.

I wish people would spend more time trying to be accurate and less time trying to prove a point.

Nobody, at least not me, is trying to prove a point. If you want accuracy, the point was people saying achiano had top 25 classes and waltzed into living rooms and got who he wanted. It's simply false...anyone arguing otherwise is the one not being accurate.

 

[dicemen99]

This thread HAS morphed, and it doesn't have anything to do with the posters pointing out facts here. It's because guys like RU4real and vk can't miss an opportunity to jump all over anyone who has the audacity to question Flood in recruiting.

You get the standard stuff like 10 months to signing day - like 3+ years of results have no relevance, or
vk posting about GS' entire body of work in recruiting vs. Floods - as Mooby pointed out, what exactly does that prove? Is the situation that GS had in his early - or even later years - as remotely favorable as what Flood inherited? How about looking at GS' last three years vs. Flood's first three?
vk claiming 2012 as a "shared" class? Really??????

You guys don't live in reality. The OP posted some very good points - both positive and negative - about Flood. All pretty fair. You act like it's your job to have Flood's back any time anything negative is posted.

I'm excited to see the spin you come up with when DreamTeam16 somehow morphs into wait till next year again...but then again, he's doing really well early with all these top recruits...it's not like anybody elseis getting 4 star guys or QBs to verbal this early.

 

[MozRU]

Can we PLEASE end this nonsense once and for all:

Rivals Recruiting Rankings, By Year:

2002: 47
2003: 45
2004: 82
2005: 69
2006: 42
2007: 37
2008: 46
2009: 38
2010: 64
2011: 32
2012: 24

Avg: 48


2013: 45
2014: 57
2015: 53

Avg: 52

GS recruited in the falling apart Big East
Flood = B1G

Please discuss.

 

[vkj91]

This thread HAS morphed, and it doesn't have anything to do with the posters pointing out facts here. It's because guys like RU4real and vk can't miss an opportunity to jump all over anyone who has the audacity to question Flood in recruiting.

You get the standard stuff like 10 months to signing day - like 3+ years of results have no relevance, or
vk posting about GS' entire body of work in recruiting vs. Floods - as Mooby pointed out, what exactly does that prove? Is the situation that GS had in his early - or even later years - as remotely favorable as what Flood inherited? How about looking at GS' last three years vs. Flood's first three?
vk claiming 2012 as a "shared" class? Really??????

You guys don't live in reality. The OP posted some very good points - both positive and negative - about Flood. All pretty fair. You act like it's your job to have Flood's back any time anything negative is posted.

I'm excited to see the spin you come up with when DreamTeam16 somehow morphs into wait till next year again...but then again, he's doing really well early with all these top recruits...it's not like anybody elseis getting 4 star guys or QBs to verbal this early.

We don't live in reality? We were responding to a specific post about Schiano and his top 25 classes. It's not about defending Flood, it's about making sure people don't try to sell the idea Schiano was putting together all these stellar classes. Who was the HC when 2012 signed? You don't think Caroo and Hamilton had other options? They CHOSE to stay with Flood. Can't spin it any other way. Which is exactly why I'm fair and call it a shared class. As for a Dream team, I can't wait for you guys to spin it when this class is the highest rated class we've ever had.

 

[vkj91]

GS recruited in the falling apart Big East
Flood = B1G

Please discuss.

How come the conference never hurt Wanny at Pitt or Strong at LVille? Again, Schiano was a stae any third in BE recruiting.

 

[RUsojo]

We don't live in reality? We were responding to a specific post about Schiano and his top 25 classes. It's not about defending Flood, it's about making sure people don't try to sell the idea Schiano was putting together all these stellar classes. Who was the HC when 2012 signed? You don't think Caroo and Hamilton had other options? They CHOSE to stay with Flood. Can't spin it any other way. Which is exactly why I'm fair and call it a shared class. As for a Dream team, I can't wait for you guys to spin it when this class is the highest rated class we've ever had.

VK you may very well be right...but refusing to give up ground because of what may happen ten months from now, with little to no evidence in the past (in fact the opposite) to support your hypothesis coming true, is what forces posters to respond to you as harsh as they are.

For the record I do not believe this class will be Rutgers best ever. It could be a nice step in the right direction under flood (30-40) but there is no reason to believe it is likely just because it might be possible.

 

[vkj91]

VK you may very well be right...but refusing to give up ground because of what may happen ten months from now, with little to no evidence in the past (in fact the opposite) to support your hypothesis coming true, is what forces posters to respond to you as harsh as they are.

For the record, I do not believe this class will be Rutgers best ever. It could be a nice step in the right direction under flood (30-40) but there is no reason to believe it is likely just because it might be possible.

I have given up ground many times. I've never said I was satisfied with the rankings of these classes . Why can't you guys give up ground on the fact he had a Stellar class before he screwed it up? Last years class was doomed before it started as a result. Did we have any of these highly ranked kids on campus last year? Did we hear the chatter like this last year? No. Flood screwed up and he made changes....this is the year he should and will be judged by. I'm sorry if you guys can't understand that you don't judge him until Feb. I'm not some Flood fanboy, I was one of the people that was contacted to pony up money and I was going to. Unlike many, I'm willing to admit he's changed and the results have as well.

 

[RU4Real]

GS recruited in the falling apart Big East
Flood = B1G

Please discuss.

There's nothing to discuss. As VKJ has already pointed out, the list of class rankings isn't intended to spawn a nuanced discussion of recruiting. It was simply in response to a previous poster who claimed that Schiano was consistently getting top 25 classes - which is utter nonsense.

 

[MozRU]

How come the conference never hurt Wanny at Pitt or Strong at LVille? Again, Schiano was a stae any third in BE recruiting.

I will accept that RU WON'T bring in guys Pitt and Ville will.

 

[dicemen99]

As for a Dream team, I can't wait for you guys to spin it when this class is the highest rated class we've ever had.

Here we go, the spin has started slightly - we've already stepped down off the Dream Team and all the top NJ talent. I know you've got the underrated, diamond in the rough card in your pocket, ready to be played.

Here's something for you. By all accounts RU will have to deal with the following in their own division for the foreseeable future:

OSU - nine 4 star recruits (2 of them 6.0 - could be 5 stars at end), one 5 star recruit (from NJ), one stud QB commit
PSU - five 4 star recruits (2 of them 6.0), one stud QB commit
Mich - four 4 star recruits, one stud QB commit
MSU (who everyone loves to compare recruiting to around here) - three 4 star recruits (one from NJ), one stud QB commit
geez, MD has a 4 star recruit - from their backyard - imagine that
Well, Indiana is not doing too well...how's the talent in Indiana compared to Jersey for 2016?

But, yeah, it's early. And 2 to 3 star guys who want to represent are better options anyway...

When you couple that with the talent that NJ is boasting, both top end and depth for 2016, well I'm not sure that Dick Anderson couldn't be doing as well at this point...

 

[RUsojo]

I have given up ground many times. I've never said I was satisfied with the rankings of these classes . Why can't you guys give up ground on the fact he had a Stellar class before he screwed it up? Last years class was doomed before it started as a result. Did we have any of these highly ranked kids on campus last year? Did we hear the chatter like this last year? No. Flood screwed up and he made changes....this is the year he should and will be judged by. I'm sorry if you guys can't understand that you don't judge him until Feb. I'm not some Flood fanboy, I was one of the people that was contacted to pony up money and I was going to. Unlike many, I'm willing to admit he's changed and the results have as well.

Ok. Flood had stellar verbal commitments. He then lost all of those stellar verbal commitments. Where does that leave us? Unforutantely, the reality of the situation is late in the year he botched recruiting with his stance on verbals visiting other schools and then he fell apart in his onfield coaching performance. I see two negatives from that situation and no positives.