Great win tonight. But it seemed to me that his body language was somewhat negative. Seemed more down than up.
Montez Mathis
- Thread starter ch414
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I noticed that too. I know he's not getting a lot of minutes, but that may have to do with the way he practices and the way the other kids are gelling together. I hope it's just a small blip right now.
It's been like that every game unfortunately. He seems frustrated and always has his head down shaking his head with poor body language and attitude. Out of the entire team, Mathis could REALLY use a breakout game against Boston who we should pound. Pike should try to get him going to get some confidence and good mojo. He is a supreme athlete with a ton of potential and it would be nice to get a little more out of him by B1G league play.
On the bright side we can just play Harper more and bring Mathis along more slowly. Some kids make the transition more easily and even though Mathis is physically ready as a freshman he so far hasn't found his rhythm and he is letting it get to him
On the bright side we can just play Harper more and bring Mathis along more slowly. Some kids make the transition more easily and even though Mathis is physically ready as a freshman he so far hasn't found his rhythm and he is letting it get to him
I wound't worry about it. I'm sure he's used to being "the man" and it's difficult to adjust to being just another piece. He's only 4 games in. He'll figure it out.
He's struggled but it's only 4 games into his freshman yr. Not everyone is a star from day 1.
I noticed the body language as well, when he is on the bench he will be the only one sitting when we make a big play
I'd love to see Pike try and get him some looks vs BU, he just needs some confidence and the talent will come thru
He played with a 5* PG who's now at Kentucky (Quickley) so not sure this is true.
His high-usage, low-efficiency play through four games has been disappointing. He's almost certainly going to improve (a 71.1 ORtg is unsustainable) but the question is how much.
Positives are: I've seen him play some good defense, he gets to the line, and is unafraid to go to the rim.
Negatives are: He makes bad gambles on defense at times, he misses free throws, and doesn't actually finish at the rim. He has a little bit of Freeman in him where he seems to make up his mind that he's putting up a shot no matter what.
He reminds me a bit of Mark Smith who played at Illinois as a freshman then transferred to Missouri this year. He was brutal as a freshman relative to his 4* rating, but through 5 games is much better as a sophomore. Might just take him some time to find his footing, but we're running out of softer games to allow him to do so.
Not worried as much about his ability as I am about body language. Doesn’t seem like a happy dude. May just be his personality. Hopefully doesn’t hinder his progress
It doesn't bother me when he takes bad shots or turns the ball over. Mopping on the court and on the bench like a child is unacceptable and can not be tolerated. Issa was playing in garbage time and not Mathis because I think Pikiell had enough. This is about the team and not Montez Mathis. I hope he grows up.
Other then last night he was a black hole, the ball went to him and it never came back out. The reason that did not happen last night was because of the zone defense. Multiple times this year Gio has gone over to him to calm him down etc.
I do think he thought he was the big recruit and was going to start. We noticed his attitude with our crew at the games so we know darn well that Coach is seeing it.
I do think he thought he was the big recruit and was going to start. We noticed his attitude with our crew at the games so we know darn well that Coach is seeing it.
That's what I've been wondering. Is it his personality or has he just been having a difficult time adjusting to the college game? He doesn't smile and seems very unhappy in his body language. Does anyone know if he was like this in high school?
Right now there are 7 guys Pikiell seems to fully trust: Baker, Kiss, Thiam, Harper, Omoruyi, Doorson, and Johnson.
He clearly wants Mathis and McConnell in that mix too but McConnell is a PG without an assist or a made bucket so far, and Mathis has been alternatively playing too fast and to slow, just totally out of sorts.
Carter seems buried and is a good reminder that even touted JUCO guys are usually fool's gold in recruiting.
I've banged on Doucoure before so I'll give him credit for grabbing six boards in 12 minutes last night. But the shot at the very end was bush league and he missed it anyway. For the Doucoure Good Shooting Form truthers, he's 1-5 with only an ugly banked-in jumper this year. I'll be thrilled if he can give us defense and rebounding without fouling but he has no offensive game right now (no shot, can't dribble, no post moves) so he's only going to see so much time.
That's the state of our 11 right now.
He clearly wants Mathis and McConnell in that mix too but McConnell is a PG without an assist or a made bucket so far, and Mathis has been alternatively playing too fast and to slow, just totally out of sorts.
Carter seems buried and is a good reminder that even touted JUCO guys are usually fool's gold in recruiting.
I've banged on Doucoure before so I'll give him credit for grabbing six boards in 12 minutes last night. But the shot at the very end was bush league and he missed it anyway. For the Doucoure Good Shooting Form truthers, he's 1-5 with only an ugly banked-in jumper this year. I'll be thrilled if he can give us defense and rebounding without fouling but he has no offensive game right now (no shot, can't dribble, no post moves) so he's only going to see so much time.
That's the state of our 11 right now.
This is the lack of awareness that i believe many RU fans have when it comes to recruiting high level players who have experienced success at every level.
There's nothing different with Montez Mathis that isn't involved at every Power 5 program in the country...and the same thing with past RU highly sought after players who don't hit the ground running...fans start asking questions of true freshman that in some ways are fair but in some ways aren't.
Players that aren't used to getting by on their skill level in HS, have to adjust. And 90% of players are used to measuring their value based on touches and scoring.
High caliber players at a lot of programs struggle early to understand they can impact a game beyond scoring. At 18 or 19 years old, when you've been used to getting 35 to 40 touches a half and now it's down to 8 or 10, there's pressure to feel like you have to do something with it immediately vs allowing the game to come to the player.
Every staff around the country in HS and college has to work through this process with a talented player or 2 on it's roster. What ultimately happens is the player gets comfortable by playing/scoring and getting used to knowing toiches will be there.
Players like Jahvon Quinerly at Villanova are showing much worse than anything here and he's a 5 star player expected to be the man at Nova...and countless other programs.
Mathis will be fine and more importantly, RU continues to add talent at every position. So in years past when a Mike Rosario sulked or forced up shots, there wasn't an adequate replacement or similar talent on the bench...Mathis will be broken down and built back up, like many coaches around the country do to get their players on board down the road.
There's nothing different with Montez Mathis that isn't involved at every Power 5 program in the country...and the same thing with past RU highly sought after players who don't hit the ground running...fans start asking questions of true freshman that in some ways are fair but in some ways aren't.
Players that aren't used to getting by on their skill level in HS, have to adjust. And 90% of players are used to measuring their value based on touches and scoring.
High caliber players at a lot of programs struggle early to understand they can impact a game beyond scoring. At 18 or 19 years old, when you've been used to getting 35 to 40 touches a half and now it's down to 8 or 10, there's pressure to feel like you have to do something with it immediately vs allowing the game to come to the player.
Every staff around the country in HS and college has to work through this process with a talented player or 2 on it's roster. What ultimately happens is the player gets comfortable by playing/scoring and getting used to knowing toiches will be there.
Players like Jahvon Quinerly at Villanova are showing much worse than anything here and he's a 5 star player expected to be the man at Nova...and countless other programs.
Mathis will be fine and more importantly, RU continues to add talent at every position. So in years past when a Mike Rosario sulked or forced up shots, there wasn't an adequate replacement or similar talent on the bench...Mathis will be broken down and built back up, like many coaches around the country do to get their players on board down the road.
This is a classic case of a freshman making the jump up in class and needing to have the game slow down for him.
He is playing a bit out of control and a few questionable shot selections. Pikiell keeps giving him major minutes. It will come. Not every 18 year old kid is a plug and play.
He is playing a bit out of control and a few questionable shot selections. Pikiell keeps giving him major minutes. It will come. Not every 18 year old kid is a plug and play.
its his 4th game and he is clearly behind some of the others right now...and remember he is a freshmen. If its 12-15 games into the season then I would start to worry about stuff like this
Good post.
The only point I would contest is placing Kiss in the fully trust column. I’m a little disappointed in what Kiss has brought so far. He’s basically just a serviceable 2G who is a decent 3pt shooter and doesn’t do anything else especially well. But we need to give him some time before drawing any hard conclusions as well.
Among the newcomers Harper and Johnson are both showing brilliant flashes. When Mulcahy gets here and we have him, Baker, Harper, and Johnson on the floor at the same time it could very well be the best passing lineup Rutgers has ever had - not just good in that department but genuinely great.
My impression was that he is more mad at himself. Not that the outward emotion is ok necessarily, but I don’t think it’s vindictive. I’m sure he just wants to be a part of what’s happening on the court
Been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but yeah, I've noticed this too. It's early. I hope he can just relax and let the game come to him. I've seen some nice plays from him that he just didn't finish, but I hope he doesn't let the frustration get the best of him.
From what I've read in this thread so far, I haven't seen anyone calling him a bad kid or worrying that it's a long term problem. Just something we've noticed. That is all.
A few productive stretches and a strong crowd reaction when he returns to the bench will go a long way here. $$$$
Montez is the only recruit who doesn’t seem to fit the mold of what Pikiell was looking to improve as a team from year two to year 3: improve outside shooting and passing.
It will just take time for Mathis to come to grips with what his role is in this team. Pikiell will make it work.
It will just take time for Mathis to come to grips with what his role is in this team. Pikiell will make it work.
Both Kiss and Mathis have a tendency to hesitate with the ball and seem unsure when to attack, shoot or pass. They’ll get more comfortable as the season goes. I think any negative body language is more feeling down on themselves vs mad about role on the team
Team was unselfish last night with many possessions at least three passes before a shot.
Mathis in previous games did not give up the ball forcing ill advised shots. Last night he was passing/giving up the ball for the first time. Once he settles down and plays team ball he will come into his own.
Mathis in previous games did not give up the ball forcing ill advised shots. Last night he was passing/giving up the ball for the first time. Once he settles down and plays team ball he will come into his own.
Last night was also the first time we exclusively saw zone. He didn't have many open looks. In the first three games, I didn't have a problem with the type of shots he took, but rather when he took them. Like McConnell, Mathis has shown a tendency to shoot too early in the possession, and too quickly off the bench. It takes a few possessions and touches to get into the rhythm of the game. Patience & maturity will go a long way.
I think he’s pressing. He’s our highest profile recruit from last year but not nearly as comfortable as some other newcomers. Harper is an anamoly right now and is playing like veteran and Johnson and Kiss have been with the program for a year. Not much is expected from McConnell and Carter doesn’t see the court, so Mathis stands out.
Also, this team seems to truly enjoy playing with each other and it shows. We just don’t see that from Mathis. Perhaps it’s just not his personality but it doesn’t help the perception.
Also, this team seems to truly enjoy playing with each other and it shows. We just don’t see that from Mathis. Perhaps it’s just not his personality but it doesn’t help the perception.
You are forgetting Young - the ability to move Geo off the ball with Young or Mulcahy on the floor is going to make RU much better.
I believe attitude can be taught and starts with positive body language. I could be wrong.
Noticed it too, and in the last game also. Truthfully, I think he's getting more minutes than he deserves. He is WAY OUT OF CONTROL. Carter might be a concern - I mean here is a game vs. a team playing all zone where we are looking to go high/low the whole game, and he barely plays.
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He probably wants to start and play 39 minutes.
The kid has a lot to learn.
He should bring enthusiasm off the bench now, play tight defense, work on his shot too
The kid has a lot to learn.
He should bring enthusiasm off the bench now, play tight defense, work on his shot too
