Never Been Contacted by a Coach Regarding Grades
- Thread starter ImBadRU
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Flood sent am email. He could have done that sitting on his coach playing with his kids on day off. You don't know. And no one has proven that a coach reaching out to a professor is prohibited.
Flood is a former teacher. Maybe he thinks its respectful to reach out directly.
Flood is a former teacher. Maybe he thinks its respectful to reach out directly.
Too the posters on this forum.... do you now see what I mean about just because a policy is in place does not mean that the people it affects are even aware of the policy's existence.
I am sure "ImBadRU" is a solid and well-aware Professor and yet he/she doesn't even know if there is a Penn State policy about whether coaches and teachers can have contact. This means there are definitely MANY others who are also unaware. It just goes to show you how Universities seem to be very good at writing new policies, but need to improve on the actual follow through involved with getting awareness and compliance levels up!
I bring this up because in Flood's situation there is a good chance that he was not aware of the specific policy now in question especially considering the previous history of events where Professors and the football staff and head coach interacted VERY CLOSELY whether it be when Professors attend practice or when Professors come to be part of a recruiting trip for recruits so that they can explain the academic side of Rutgers, etc.
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The amount of training the coaches get on rules there is no doubt he knows the rule. The compliance departments are all over these things. Sure the professor might not have known the policy but the head coach definitely does.
See that first part of you post where you say that "ImBadRU" should know about if there is a policy at Penn State about if Coaches and Professors can contact each other is just a perfect example of the realities of big universities. Unless you actually work at one, then you cannot comprehend the amount of policies that are implemented and removed and changed and tweaked every week. So it isn't surprising the "ImBadRU" doesn't know the answer about if the policy exists at PSU and it isn't surprising if Flood was not aware of the specific Rutgers policy either... if a policy exists at all.
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Oddly enough Kyle sent an email which became a record that is in black and white. If he made a phone call he would have more mobility etc as far as his inquiry. That's not to say his inquiry was out of order. He was just checking up on one of the members of his FAMILY just like some parents do. In this case it is on the college level as opposed to HS or elementary school. The problem here is Rutgers rules and of course how one wants to interpret and apply them. Who is just making the noise here and what is their purpose? While some may think professors might be intimidated by an inquiry from a coach as opposed to an academic advisor what about the other side of thr coin where students can be intimidated by an instructor/prof who might show little interest in his students or is often unavailable to discuss certain situations or even explain subject matter better. Some profs have no classroom charisma at all. But many have tenure and there isn't too much one can do once tenure is granted. And some just get to be old and lazy. It's a two way street.
I'll add...what a waste of money to have outside counsel look into this when it doesn't appear to be as problematic as some want to make it out to be. Barchi and his advisors should be smarter in taking this into consideration rather than trying to cover their respective asses. This isn't life or death but a general inquiry by a respected coach who is also an educator and has been in the classroom and not some bozo type coach who doesn't have any values or respect for faculty or other university personnel.
I guess despite everything, Barchi doesn't really know anything about Kyle Flood the man and educator. If he did this entire situation would not be the public item it seems to have become. Classic repeat example of what occurred with Rutgers lacrosse coach who was unjustly censored in a quick knee jerk reaction and we eventually learned it all started by a disgruntled parent whose son may not have been given much playing time.
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"Honored" is a pretty strong word. The professor got an email from a coach because the coach wanted his student to get a better grade. I wouldn't even respond to such an email. I'd forward it to my chair. And I love sports! Imagine if this professor were already one of the anti-big time athletics types. Honored. No way. If the coach emailed him to thank him for doing such a great job teaching, then maybe.
MAD, No offense intended. Yes, I was told by more than one player that they really liked Flood (and all the RU coaches), but did not go to RU because Flood has no stain, or proven capability to win big. I'm not saying kids who say that are right, but it is their perception.
I don't know if there is a PSU policy or NCAA policy. I was simply expressing my opinion as to why Flood's actions could be perceived by some faculty members as improper use of influence. My guess, since I've not had a coach ever contact me, that there are rules in place at PSU that forbid it. Could be wrong though.
...but apparently he's 'big and bad' enough to try and use his 'immense' powers to unfairly wield influence???
...IMO can't have it both ways.
Joe P.
So then there's a proscribed policy, which would then be public record. Please direct us to it.
May they contact the police if they believe a crime has been committed in the football facilities, or must they send it up chain of command and forget about it?
It not necessarily public record because Penn State is quasi public institution. Penn state is a private school in regards to right know requests. Only certain things are subject to it just like at Temple and Pitt. The manual is available through the compliance office but I doubt they are going to give anyone who requests it a copy.
Does anyone here know how many of these academic support people work in the off-season? Perhaps this is all just a case of the proper support person being on vacation at an inopportune time because we have one player who has not gotten his academic house in order in the usual timeframes where support people are there to help.
As soon as this topic came up I think most people here knew it was BS. Flood is a former teacher and could be the least likely head coach out there to attempt undue influence to get a player a needed grade. And what head coach attempting such a thing would:
A) do it himself
B) leave an e-paper trail
The guys who cheat on stuff like this do so systematically. They don't fire off emails from their personal accounts. They create the abilities to cheat while maintaining plausible deniability and keeping their distance. And why haven't we seen a story that talks about that angle.. that if this was cheating it was obvioulsy done by someone who doesn't know how to cheat the system.
I think most reasonable people will know this is all just a case of Flood needing to know his CB's chances of being available this season in order to set a 2-deep for the upcoming season. For all we know the player in question has given his coaches "happy talk" about his grades his entire time here. Maybe there is a reason why Flood needed to get word direct from the professor involved.
IMO I'mBadRU and PSU Nut have provided excellent and tempered analysis on this unfortunate situation and it's sad to see the immaturity of fellow RU fans who must constantly bring up the Sandusky issue each time these guys post.
Bottom line, if RU has a policy of coaches not being allowed to directly contact profs, and the compliance staff reminds those under the umbrella of the athletic department annually, then shame on Kyle flood and he must be held accountable.
They work all year round. I am sure one of the 16 staff members were available to send an email.
Secondly since when did teacher become incapable of doing anything wrong? You sound like one of those people they interview after someone is arrested saying but they went to church. Well just because he was a teacher doesn't mean he is incapable of breaking rules.
I think Flood emailed the teacher to ask if there's anything Nadir can do to get a better grade, big difference. Or was simply trying to assertion what the final grade was.
You would forward it to your chair? Why not say, I'm sorry coach he didn't deserve the grade he needed, or yes there is something he can do and it would require……?
You're immediately that offended and taken back, you need to call your chair?
IMHO, people need to stop making this into a bigger issue than it is. First, RU has been aware of this for almost two weeks. If the email was in any way asking for improper benefits he'd be gone already. Second, it's great that OP has never been contacted but to think this isn't common place is ridiculous. I reached out to two people who have worked at the collegiate level. One a former coach, said it happens all the time and as long as you don't cross the line or push too hard it's common place. The second, a former administrator, who now works at a HS level laughed and said he has had college coaches call his HS players teachers for info on grades. It appears at some level Flood broke a RU policy('m not an HR guy so I don't know if it matters that others were copied on the email or if there was a back and forth) and he needs to be held accountable for that. That being said, only at RU can this become such a bog story......
well its not really a long story yet lol but I know what you mean...in this age of social media we demand things resolved in 6 hours or we will beat the subject to death
I could care less if the OP ever got contacted, that's one experience and really has nothing to do with this situation. Vkj is right, if there was outright asking for a change of grade Flood would already be gone. He didn't follow the protocol though and in the end worst case scenerio gets a reprimand, maybe is suspended for a half and has to make an apology..
I could care less if the OP ever got contacted, that's one experience and really has nothing to do with this situation. Vkj is right, if there was outright asking for a change of grade Flood would already be gone. He didn't follow the protocol though and in the end worst case scenerio gets a reprimand, maybe is suspended for a half and has to make an apology..
Nonsense. You are one of those people who want to assume Flood did something wrong (trying to influence a grade) before you know he did something wrong.
Given the lack of knowledge of what is in the email in question we are left to discuss the things we do know about the situation:
- the record and character of the man involved
- the method used in the alleged cheating incident
Neither of those topics falls in favor of suggesting that Flood tried to cheat. That leaves the people like you, PSU_Nut and the Star-Ledger crowd having to assume there is cheating and trying to discuss everything assuming there is cheating.
Another recent post here strung together several "ifs".. as in "If Flood did this.." and "If Flood did that.." then "Shame of Flood...:.
That describes all the negative stories on this topic.. from "professional" journalists. They want to get to the lurid part.. so they must assume the most negative aspect of the story.
Here's a prediction.. once we know there is no evidence of wrongdoing, the stories will still be negative but will shift to discuss "the letter of the law" and avoiding "the appearance of wrongdoing" and also have an angle of "did anyone try to cover-up the crime" or hinder the investigation. Maybe even talk of the privacy rights of the player in question. They'll "ask" whether Flood was ready to be head coach in making mistakes like this one.
Shame on all of the negative-slant posters and journalists.
I don't think making a mistake in policy and/or procedures (be it contacting profs directly and/or using non-univ personal email accounts) comes anywhere near close to "cheating".
Univ and Staff employees make policy/procedure mistakes all the time...don't think its generally ever considered cheating and is obviously not a crime.
The question as to whether or not there is a rule prohibiting a coach or staff member from contacting a faculty member regarding a player is the key issue here. Flood should know this. While coaches can't honestly be asked to know every school or NCAA rule, this seems like a big one that he should either know or find out before making contact. If it is a rule, then he probably deserves a (very small) slap on the wrist. If it's not, then I don't see what the issue is. I highly doubt that he wrote anything inappropriate in the email. These guys know that everything they do, say and write is scrutinized and Flood doesn't strike me as dumb enough to digitally sign anything that can be perceived as him looking to have a grade changed. In fact, if there is no rule prohibiting it, then I applaud the guy for stepping in and taking a personal interest in a student's academic situation.
The story about this is blah-blah-boring unless they assume there was cheating going on.
fact-based: Coach Flood directly emailed a professor about a players grades who was taking summer classes to remain eligible. This is against the general guidelines which state coaches should use academic advisers for such information. It would be a violation of NCAA rules if Flood attempted to exert undue influence.
scandal-mongering: Coach Flood is under investigation for NCAA Rules violations in using his personal email (which, in light of the Hillary email scandal, "personal email" presently has the whiff of impropriety in the public consciousness) contacting a professor about a player's grades.
The contact was reported to Rutgers Athletics and an investigation started. Everything is functioning exactly correct. Flood did not follow the guidelines and it was reported and is being examined. Until we see what was in the email there is every reason to assume it was entirely innocent.
fact-based: Coach Flood directly emailed a professor about a players grades who was taking summer classes to remain eligible. This is against the general guidelines which state coaches should use academic advisers for such information. It would be a violation of NCAA rules if Flood attempted to exert undue influence.
scandal-mongering: Coach Flood is under investigation for NCAA Rules violations in using his personal email (which, in light of the Hillary email scandal, "personal email" presently has the whiff of impropriety in the public consciousness) contacting a professor about a player's grades.
The contact was reported to Rutgers Athletics and an investigation started. Everything is functioning exactly correct. Flood did not follow the guidelines and it was reported and is being examined. Until we see what was in the email there is every reason to assume it was entirely innocent.
I don't think the contact would have been reported, or investigated, if not for such a rule being in place. Though, perhaps the instructor was worried about the student's right to privacy.
Well, even if it wasn't a direct violation, the prof could've reported it for a number of potential reasons (e.g., he felt the context or tone was inappropriate). Once he reports it, the investigation is pretty much mandatory. It may just be a case of where 99% of professors wouldn't have had a problem with the email Flood sent, but he happened to email the one guy with a stick up his ass.
It
I'd forward it to my chair and ask what he thought because this is the kind of area where one treads carefully. It's inappropriate contact at best.
I know you're a sports fan Levaos, I'm going to offer you dinner with Yogi Berra, Derek Jeter, Mariano and any other living Yankees, but only if you change a grade for me...LOL
Just kidding[winking]
So, at Penn State they work all year round. 12-month appointments, not faculty appointments which are typically 9-months.
I DO NOT THINK FLOOD SHOULD GET INTO TROUBLE FOR THIS! I doubt he was attempting to cheat or exert undue influence, or anything of the kind. By all accounts, he is a super dude. My only reason for posting was to express my personal experience at a B10 university who happens to be a faculty member. I thought it was a bit of unique perspective. So, in response to the post, I'm told that I am a pedophile - that is the standard response from many Rutgers fans. Whatever. Been posting for years and will continue. No skin off my back when some show their complete ignorance. Too bad.
The pedophile comments are unfortunate and unwarranted. However, please understand that comments and suggestions on how "things should be at Rutgers" or "how they are elsewhere" will not be well-received from people affiliated with Penn State or Florida State or a few other programs. As I noted in my other posts, wonder what the PSU policy manual says when a coach views what is believed to be a crime being committed at the football facility by another member of the staff or team? Should it not be "call the police"? Or was it tell your boss, and let him/her run it up the flagpole and hope someone will do something about it. Also, Franklin's handling of the alleged rape incident at Vanderbilt is not a model of what a coach should do when one of his players is allegedly involved in the rape.
In this situation, while it APPEARS (we really don't know all of the facts) to be overblown, it is good that Rutgers got right on this and is doing an investigation of the situation. What is unfortunate is the hysteria created by the media and all of the faux outrage over what Coach Flood did.
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