nigel johnson to virginia

[GoFish2]

Fans here are not aware or not able to separate someone that isn't team oriented vs talented...

There are countless examples of similar talented players that are net-negative or don't play within the team concept....the most recent example (not as bad as Nigel Johnson only caring about things when he played well or scored, or didn't care for the teams success), was Nebraska's star forward, Andrew White....he is a cancerous player that left or was shed from Kansas, landed as a transfer at Nebraska....then he didn't get along with folks there, despite being Nebraska's best player and decided to leave for his final season.

White had many suitors and landed at Cuse, where Boeheim has a more than difficult time dealing with White's moody play...there was one particular game where White took a few too many shots in the first half and then purposely didn't shoot the ball the 2nd half of the next game, even when he was open...he continued the lack of shooting into the next game down the stretch of a critical loss that broke Cuse's NCAA hopes.

Back to Nigel, he wasn't a team oriented player, but that doesn't mean he's not talented, or not capable of being a D1 player, he certainly is.....he's not the first NCAA me-first player and won't be the last one....for all the positives that he can bring to the program, there were more negatives off the court that were not worth discussing and he's Tony Bennett's project.....

I think he fits perfectly at UVA, because part of the reason for the mass exodus out of UVA's program, was Bennett's offense essentially was London Perrantes dribbling down the shot clock off a pick and roll and being forced to take a tough contested shot......No other consistent enough ball movement, unhappy UVA Cavaliers, and it showed immediately with tons of transfers out of the program that were upperclassmen.....mind you, UVA is a winning, NCAA program, a program that was in the Elite 8 2 years ago.....Nigel as a one year rental, is low-risk, high potential reward, as long as he gets his shots, playing time and scores consistently.....those are things Nigel can replace that Perrantes brought to the table the last 3-4 years.

For RU long term, I'd rather have Geo Baker play and learn through his mistakes at 20 minutes or more a game and to take and make the shots that Nigel took last year....can he be a better team oriented player...?? Yep......Can he score or shoot without having the ball in his hands....Yep.......is Baker playing more minutes this year, a better long term solution after the 2017-18 season for RU??....100% Yes....

If and when RU finds another 5th year player that helps balance the roster, Nigel's production will be offset....it's early April, check back on where the roster is in October/November....

Per usual, you are making an awful lot of assumptions about Baker. This is a guy who would not be on any other B1G roster. I would dial down expectations.

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

Fans here are not aware or not able to separate someone that isn't team oriented vs talented...

There are countless examples of similar talented players that are net-negative or don't play within the team concept....the most recent example (not as bad as Nigel Johnson only caring about things when he played well or scored, or didn't care for the teams success), was Nebraska's star forward, Andrew White....he is a cancerous player that left or was shed from Kansas, landed as a transfer at Nebraska....then he didn't get along with folks there, despite being Nebraska's best player and decided to leave for his final season.

White had many suitors and landed at Cuse, where Boeheim has a more than difficult time dealing with White's moody play...there was one particular game where White took a few too many shots in the first half and then purposely didn't shoot the ball the 2nd half of the next game, even when he was open...he continued the lack of shooting into the next game down the stretch of a critical loss that broke Cuse's NCAA hopes.

Back to Nigel, he wasn't a team oriented player, but that doesn't mean he's not talented, or not capable of being a D1 player, he certainly is.....he's not the first NCAA me-first player and won't be the last one....for all the positives that he can bring to the program, there were more negatives off the court that were not worth discussing and he's Tony Bennett's project.....

I think he fits perfectly at UVA, because part of the reason for the mass exodus out of UVA's program, was Bennett's offense essentially was London Perrantes dribbling down the shot clock off a pick and roll and being forced to take a tough contested shot......No other consistent enough ball movement, unhappy UVA Cavaliers, and it showed immediately with tons of transfers out of the program that were upperclassmen.....mind you, UVA is a winning, NCAA program, a program that was in the Elite 8 2 years ago.....Nigel as a one year rental, is low-risk, high potential reward, as long as he gets his shots, playing time and scores consistently.....those are things Nigel can replace that Perrantes brought to the table the last 3-4 years.

For RU long term, I'd rather have Geo Baker play and learn through his mistakes at 20 minutes or more a game and to take and make the shots that Nigel took last year....can he be a better team oriented player...?? Yep......Can he score or shoot without having the ball in his hands....Yep.......is Baker playing more minutes this year, a better long term solution after the 2017-18 season for RU??....100% Yes....

If and when RU finds another 5th year player that helps balance the roster, Nigel's production will be offset....it's early April, check back on where the roster is in October/November....

Per usual, you are making an awful lot of assumptions about Baker. This is a guy who would not be on any other B1G roster. I would dial down expectations.

The recent New England rankings had Baker ranked above many players with P5 offers

 

[PaKnight]

Per usual, you are making an awful lot of assumptions about Baker. This is a guy who would not be on any other B1G roster. I would dial down expectations.

Someone else is making big assumptions about Baker.

I love irony.

 

[patk89]

Not in any way comparing Nigel to Dahntay Jones, but when Dahntay transferred, most here opined that he would never see the floor at Duke. Maybe it is human nature to run down players who leave, or recruits that select other schools, but if we were adding a guy like Nigel instead of losing him, people would be projecting great things. But let's see what our roster looks like when the season starts. We will add some more pieces. I expect to have a better team and to win a few more B1G games.

 

[MV9000]

Someone else is making big assumptions about Baker.

I love irony.

I think he was speaking in regards to his offer sheet. Which has 0 b1g offers. I do believe pike evaluated correct but people need to dial down on this kid. Love his size and game, however, doubt his impact makes up for what were losing this year.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think the general message of dial down expectations of ANY player who has ever played P5 basketball is a good idea.

 

[TruJerz]

Not in any way comparing Nigel to Dahntay Jones, but when Dahntay transferred, most here opined that he would never see the floor at Duke. Maybe it is human nature to run down players who leave, or recruits that select other schools, but if we were adding a guy like Nigel instead of losing him, people would be projecting great things. But let's see what our roster looks like when the season starts. We will add some more pieces. I expect to have a better team and to win a few more B1G games.

Yep, humans are naturally biased. It certainly shows on here lol

 

[RutgHoops]

Nigel had a pretty decent year for us. He didn't completely seem like a Coach P kid. I wish him well at UVA. I think Nigel would have been better with an HC who didn't require 1000% commitment to defense as well as one who would overlook some of the circus shots. I don't see Tony Bennett as that HC but we will see.

 

[RUJMM78]

I think the general message of dial down expectations of ANY player who has ever played P5 basketball is a good idea.

There are exceptions to every rule.I would gladly take recruits going to Duke,North Carolina and Kansas any year and Kentucky just for the publicity for one and done elite talent playing at Rutgers.

 

[RutgHoops]

We will see. He has to make it to 2019. Let's see how patient the fan base is after winning 10 games next season and taking a huge step back. That is what we are facing without two or three additions that are true big ten players. We lose at least two other non conference games this year without Gettys. Add in a tougher out of conference schedule and next year can be a disaster. I hope Johnson was a menace in the locker room because that is the only justification. Somehow though I doubt that.

I like message board posts like this. Lets make it interesting. $150 donation to Rutgers. I'll take over 12 1/2 wins next year. Being you said 10 wins above I think you'd be all over it.

 

[knights1212]

It is true about the New England rankings of the Top 75 2017 basketball recruits from New England. You can see it by going to NERR New England Recruit Report under google. Geo was rated at #12 out of the 75 on February 9, 2017. He is ranked above #13 from Northwestern, #14 Georgia Tech, #15 Platek from North Carolina who we recruited, #16 Pittsburgh, #17 Florida and many more recruits going to some very good schools. Just maybe Pikiell picked up a very good recruit. Some just love to criticize without giving a kid a chance.

 

[RutgHoops]

Nigel Johnson was, in my opinion, our most consistent player last year. Losing him is a big deal and the fact that a major contender like UVA picked him up proves that point.

More consistent than Williams? Or CJ? Or Freeman? I didn't see it. I even would say Corey was more consistent as he was a MUCH better two way player than Nigel (imo)

 

[willisneverrana43]

Listen, I get that some had concerns about Johnson and saw things they didn't like or interactions with the coach that leads them to believe certain things. But he was the second leading scorer on a team with scoring problems. His loss will hurt.

 

[dpwhite]

Listen, I get that some had concerns about Johnson and saw things they didn't like or interactions with the coach that leads them to believe certain things. But he was the second leading scorer on a team with scoring problems. His loss will hurt.

Agree here. It's a mix of both. But we also have to see how the roster shakes out in the next few months. I think Pikiell has his eyes on a few guys, so let's see how it plays out. Lots of ifs going forward, but there are almost always ifs when you're rebuilding at a place like Rutgers.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Nigel was actually very inconsistent.

We have a passing/vision issue with this team. It is two sided.
1. Most players aren't seeing the court
2. We have to many guys that need to dribble and/or can't shoot.

Nigel (and Corey) are guilty of both. Both players require a dribble to score.

I think people are going to be surprised at the offensive results when players like Mensah, Williams, Eugene, and Issa are on the floor together moving without the ball, making the extra pass, and getting open catch and shoot opportunities. Last year only Williams was a catch and shoot guy and quite frankly he didnt get enough looks from sanders or Johnson.

 

[SJScarlet]

I like message board posts like this. Lets make it interesting. $150 donation to Rutgers. I'll take over 12 1/2 wins next year. Being you said 10 wins above I think you'd be all over it.

I always have the same thought. People make all kinds of confident, even condescending and arrogant declarations (pessimistic or optimistic) but ultimately aren't willing to back it up or even discuss it rationally. They either ignore you, or get angry and deflect or shift positions when challenged.

 

[higgins3]

Nigel was actually very inconsistent.

We have a passing/vision issue with this team. It is two sided.
1. Most players aren't seeing the court
2. We have to many guys that need to dribble and/or can't shoot.

Nigel (and Corey) are guilty of both. Both players require a dribble to score.

I think people are going to be surprised at the offensive results when players like Mensah, Williams, Eugene, and Issa are on the floor together moving without the ball, making the extra pass, and getting open catch and shoot opportunities. Last year only Williams was a catch and shoot guy and quite frankly he didnt get enough looks from sanders or Johnson.

It is not that they are not seeing the court, they are just selfish players. They don't trust their team mates, etc.

Well see how Mensah plays out. If he is actually a running point, Pikiell will give him his chances.

 

[RutgHoops]

Listen, I get that some had concerns about Johnson and saw things they didn't like or interactions with the coach that leads them to believe certain things. But he was the second leading scorer on a team with scoring problems. His loss will hurt.

Of our Top 5 scorers Nigel had the biggest drop off in scoring in conference games:

Corey: 12.8 ppg season/14.7 ppg B1G
Nigel: 11.3 ppg season/ 9.2 ppg B1G
Deshaun: 11.1 ppg season/ 10.6 ppg B1G
Williams: 9.4 ppg season/ 8.8 ppg B1G
CJ: 7.3 ppg season/ 7.7 ppg B1G

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You know I am not a Sanders fan, but I would stop short of calling him selfish. During the OOC when we faced a fair amount of zone he definitely looked to find the open man and didn't force things. I am not sure why when he penetrates hard to the basket he doesn't look to find teammates.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

In conference play
2 pt FG 34-103 33.0%
3 pt FG 23-63 36.5%
1 pt FG 19-28 67.9%

Those are not numbers that quite frankly anyone should miss.

 

[higgins3]

You know I am not a Sanders fan, but I would stop short of calling him selfish. During the OOC when we faced a fair amount of zone he definitely looked to find the open man and didn't force things. I am not sure why when he penetrates hard to the basket he doesn't look to find teammates.

Yeah. A player like him can have so many assist, but he needs a dependable shooter. Still, he could have four assist last year. He can take people off the dribble better than anyone. So many of his layups last year were quite frankly circus shots.I hope hes in the gym and if he comes back, he starts to make the game easier on himself. Easier shots, etc.

 

[willisneverrana43]

In conference play
2 pt FG 34-103 33.0%
3 pt FG 23-63 36.5%
1 pt FG 19-28 67.9%

Those are not numbers that quite frankly anyone should miss.

OK . . . . let's see how that works out.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Yeah. A player like him can have so many assist, but he needs a dependable shooter.

This stuff needs to be debunked. the difference between a poor shooter and a very good shooter is 10%. So in 4 kick outs per game you are talking about 10 robbed assists in the entire year.

 

[higgins3]

This stuff needs to be debunked. the difference between a poor shooter and a very good shooter is 10%. So in 4 kick outs per game you are talking about 10 robbed assists in the entire year.

I think he could have had 4 assist per game. Why not? It's not just an outside shot. It's getting the ball to Gettys, Freeman, Williams.

He has to find people more. That will come when he trust his team mates to hit shots just as much as he trust himself.

 

[willisneverrana43]

It's odd how all of our most talented players suck. While, to some extent, that may account for our record, you still have what you have. And, when they leave, you don't have it anymore. And you start hoping really hard that what's replacing them is better.

Here's hoping that Sanders--apparently another one of our really bad best players--comes back.

 

[higgins3]

It's odd how all of our most talented players suck. While, to some extent, that may account for our record, you still have what you have. And, when they leave, you don't have it anymore. And you start hoping really hard that what's replacing them is better.

Here's hoping that Sanders--apparently another one of our really bad best players--comes back.

No one is saying they suck. They can improve, and I am sure they know that. Just like you or me.

 

[RickB113]

I like message board posts like this. Lets make it interesting. $150 donation to Rutgers. I'll take over 12 1/2 wins next year. Being you said 10 wins above I think you'd be all over it.

Sure. I am in. To be fair I said we would be looking at 10 wins if we don't add 2 or 3 more big ten quality players. Which I assume we won't. Big ten quality players means the guys we bring in have other big ten or P5 offers. So assuming we don't bring in 2 guys like that I am in for the bet.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Sure. I am in. To be fair I said we would be looking at 10 wins if we don't add 2 or 3 more big ten quality players. Which I assume we won't. Big ten quality players means the guys we bring in have other big ten or P5 offers. So assuming we don't bring in 2 guys like that I am in for the bet.

This is off.....if other teams only have a limited number of spots each they are only offering a limited number of players.....not having other multiple Big 10 or even a lot of P5 offer means less in basketball because teams direct their offers to players based on their specific needs.....most teams only need 3 or 4 players per year.....unless you are Kentucky.

Bottom line....offer lists are an overrated metric in basketball. So many teams just throw out offers and never even pursue most of those guys. They offer because others are offering.

 

[willisneverrana43]

This is off.....if other teams only have a limited number of spots each they are only offering a limited number of players.....not having other multiple Big 10 or even a lot of P5 offer means less in basketball because teams direct their offers to players based on their specific needs.....most teams only need 3 or 4 players per year.....unless you are Kentucky.

Bottom line....offer lists are an overrated metric in basketball. So many teams just throw out offers and never even pursue most of those guys. They offer because others are offering.

I'm pretty sure that this doesn't make an ounce of sense.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I'm pretty sure that this doesn't make an ounce of sense.

It makes perfect sense.....counting offers is silly in basketball after you get past the Top 50 or so players in the country.....just about all the top teams offer them. After that offers become very selective and targeted based on team needs.

Offers are thrown out like yesterday's garbage....most are meaningless

 

[willisneverrana43]

gibberish, gibberish, gibberish

 

[RickB113]

I'm pretty sure that this doesn't make an ounce of sense.

Not pretty sure. Absolutely sure. It ranks in my top ten worst posts of all time on this board.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

It is true about the New England rankings of the Top 75 2017 basketball recruits from New England. You can see it by going to NERR New England Recruit Report under google. Geo was rated at #12 out of the 75 on February 9, 2017. He is ranked above #13 from Northwestern, #14 Georgia Tech, #15 Platek from North Carolina who we recruited, #16 Pittsburgh, #17 Florida and many more recruits going to some very good schools. Just maybe Pikiell picked up a very good recruit. Some just love to criticize without giving a kid a chance.

Those players rated below Geo Baker in New England are better because they have Big 10 or PF offers......Geo does not. Everyone knows that.....lol

 

[knights1212]

You don't know that. Pikiell perhaps did his diligence and found a player that others did not. We will find out in the near future.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

You don't know that. Pikiell perhaps did his diligence and found a player that others did not. We will find out in the near future.

Sorry Knights....that was a tongue in cheek comment. Lots are people judge players based on....do they have P5 offers, do they have Big 10 offers.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We can continue to recruit from the Top 150 pool and land some to only realize they were thrown back by better programs and in the wrong place OR
we can realize that in 2017, 2018 and 2019 we are an undesirable place for a big time recruit and start fishing from the next tier pool and with DUE DILIGENCE land some keepers.

How many classes are we going to get undersized 2 guards that we hope are 1s? How many highly recruited guys are we going to land with major character flaws? How many classes are we going to be void of legitimate 6'5''+ forwards? How many below average shooters are we going to land?

This stuff is not a coincidence. That's the stuff left in the Tier 150 pool that we have fished from the past 10+ years.

When i hear people complaining about guys not getting B1G offers i don't necessarily take that as a negative.

 

[TDIrish27]

No matter what sport recruiting is far from a perfect science.

 

[AshCatchEm]

It's odd how all of our most talented players suck. While, to some extent, that may account for our record, you still have what you have. And, when they leave, you don't have it anymore. And you start hoping really hard that what's replacing them is better.

Here's hoping that Sanders--apparently another one of our really bad best players--comes back.

And we have one less massive headache with Johnson leaving. I'm sure pikiell is very happy about it and may have even pushed for it.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

We can continue to recruit from the Top 150 pool and land some to only realize they were thrown back by better programs and in the wrong place OR
we can realize that in 2017, 2018 and 2019 we are an undesirable place for a big time recruit and start fishing from the next tier pool and with DUE DILIGENCE land some keepers.

How many classes are we going to get undersized 2 guards that we hope are 1s? How many highly recruited guys are we going to land with major character flaws? How many classes are we going to be void of legitimate 6'5''+ forwards? How many below average shooters are we going to land?

This stuff is not a coincidence. That's the stuff left in the Tier 150 pool that we have fished from the past 10+ years.

When i hear people complaining about guys not getting B1G offers i don't necessarily take that as a negative.

Guys go over board on this looking at other B1G offers stuff. Here are some local NJ players for 2018 and the number of P5 and B1G 10 offers. Obviously, their offer list could increase over time.

Isaiah Muscius - Ranked 58. 5 PF offers, 2 Big 10 offers, including Rutgers

Jalen Carey, Ranked 51, 3 PF offers, 2 Big 10 offers, including Rutgers

Luther Muhammad, Ranked 56, 5 PF offers, 1 Big 10 offers, including Rutgers.

Louis King, Ranked Ranked 35, 4 P5 offers, 2 Big 10 offers, including Rutgers.

Naz Reid, Ranked Ranked 19, 10 PF offers, 3 Big 10 offers, including Rutgers.


So, that's what I mean when I say Basketball offers from P5 or other Big 10 teams is over-rated as a metric. Keep in mind, these are top 60 players and you can see just how limited their offer list is in the P5......teams offer based on needs. If a Big 10 team does not have a need for a player at Naz's Reid position or his skill set does fit their system...they don't offer.

I heard guys on here imply, " He only has 1 or 2 Big 10 offers, he must not be Big 10 caliber" because all the teams are not chasing him.

 

[RickB113]

Guys go over board on this looking at other B1G offers. Here are some local NJ players for 2018 and the number of P5 and B1G 10 offers. Obviously, their offer list could increase over time.

Isaiah Muscius - Ranked 58. 5 PF offers, 2 Big 10 offers, including Rutgers

Jalen Carey, Ranked 51, 3 PF offers, 2 Big 10 offers, including Rutgers

Luther Muhammad, Ranked 56, 5 PF offers, 1 Big 10 offers, including Rutgers.

Louis King, Ranked Ranked 35, 4 P5 offers, 2 Big 10 offers, including Rutgers.

Naz Reid, Ranked Ranked 19, 10 PF offers, 3 Big 10 offers, including Rutgers.


So, that's what I mean when I say Basketball offers from P5 or other Big 10 teams is over-rated as a metric. Keep in mind, these are top 60 players and you can see just how limited their offer list is in the P5......teams offer based on needs. If a Big 10 team does not have a need for a player at Naz's Reid position or skill set to fit their system...they don't offer.

I heard guys on here imply, " He only has 1 or 2 Big 10 offers, he must not be Big 10 caliber" because all the teams are not chasing him.

Please stop. Please. You think Naz only has two big ten offers?? Any one of those top 60 kids has their choice of schools save the Kentucky and Dukes of the world. If you don't know the difference between these guys and Mensah I don't know what to tell you.

What are people trying to say here? Stars don't matter? Other offers don't matter? We are recruiting great? I swear this will be the last time I post this. If we don't recruit consistently in the top 150 year in and year out we will never win. Period. Stop. It is not an opinion. It is a fact. I have 20 plus years of evidence across multiple different coaches to back me up.