Not a Schiano fan at all…

[BROTHERSKINNY]

I’m a douche cause I don’t like the Schiano hire? Ok

No, you're a douche because its year 2 of a complete rebuild and we have improved in many facets of the team and game itself and you refuse to acknowledge it.
This is the way I look at it, in the entire landscape of college football you have maybe 10 elite level coaches, coaches like Saban, Meyer, Kelly, Riley, etc. maybe 10 for whatever reason have a better system or method to recruit and coach football. They end up at the elite schools.
Then you have the next level coaches like James Franklin, Lance leipold, Greg Schiano, PJ Fleck, Harbaugh, who are really good coaches but for whatever reason have not gone to the elite level. Frankly, based on Rutgers history we are lucky to have Greg. It is only out of sheer dumb luck and Tennessees stupidity that we even have him as our head coach.
If you do not see the difference in how the team plays despite our lack of BIG talent then you are not paying attention or choose to be willfully blind to the improvement.
Greg has the team on the right path so far and we are getting the players that will help us turn the corner in our ability to beat our BIG team peers.

 

[yessir321]

To be fair, I'm not entirely convinced of that a coach has to be a cultural fit for a school. I think it can help. But it's not a hard requirement for success.

I think a coach can be a perfect cultural fit and fail. And I think a coach can be an outwardly poor fit culturally, and succeed. Also, people from this region are somewhat culturally diverse. It's not like everybody thinks or acts or sounds identical around here. Including our players.

Coach O seemed like a perfect fit for the long haul at LSU a few years back… things change🤷‍♂️

 

[yessir321]

No, you're a douche because its year 2 of a complete rebuild and we have improved in many facets of the team and game itself and you refuse to acknowledge it.
This is the way I look at it, in the entire landscape of college football you have maybe 10 elite level coaches, coaches like Saban, Meyer, Kelly, Riley, etc. maybe 10 for whatever reason have a better system or method to recruit and coach football. They end up at the elite schools.
Then you have the next level coaches like James Franklin, Lance leipold, Greg Schiano, PJ Fleck, Harbaugh, who are really good coaches but for whatever reason have not gone to the elite level. Frankly, based on Rutgers history we are lucky to have Greg. It is only out of sheer dumb luck and Tennessees stupidity that we even have him as our head coach.
If you do not see the difference in how the team plays despite our lack of BIG talent then you are not paying attention or choose to be willfully blind to the improvement.
Greg has the team on the right path so far and we are getting the players that will help us turn the corner in our ability to beat our BIG team peers.

Did you really just put GS in the same category as Harbaugh and Franklin and PJ Fleck?🤦‍♂️ Holy Christ…

 

[Caliknight]

The common refrains were “no one else would want this job” or “could win here” which are ridiculous views. I didn’t know about Houston but there are probably 20 people who could do at least as well as Schiano for half the price.

Hindsight is 20/20 but we easily could have had Lincoln Riley. Now he's making $10MM a year. Strange days.

 

[rutgersguy1]

What is ‘culture’ ? Saban isn’t from the South. LSU just fired the cultural fit and hired Kelly. How’s Scott Frost doing ? Is Cristobal a culture fit ? ‘Culture’ is just an excuse to hire who you want regardless of merit.

Culture my arse. Hire a good coach. A winner. Not a retread who isn’t either.

Won’t got as harsh as you but yea I don’t think someone had to be from an area to be successful. Matt Rhule at Baylor is another one. Clawson at WF also. I do think it is helpful to have staff from the area though.

Anything can work or fail. IMO coaching acumen is number 1.

 

[mildone]

Hindsight is 20/20 but we easily could have had Lincoln Riley. Now he's making $10MM a year. Strange days.

Some time back, I had written that, in order to get the sort of coach who has the national name recognition and record to turn the RUFB program around quickly, we might need to spend $10MM/year. I got laughed at and deserved the laughter because RU was never going to spend anywhere near that amount.

But since I'm a glutton for punishment, I'll say it again. For RU to succeed in the Big Ten East, we might need to spend $10MM/year to get a proven winning coach who can recruit by name alone for the first couple seasons.

Not saying we'll do it anytime soon, we obviously won't. But it might be the only way to have a chance.

 

[RU848789]

Did you really just put GS in the same category as Harbaugh and Franklin and PJ Fleck?🤦‍♂️ Holy Christ…

He accomplished more in his first 6 years at RU than almost any coach ever has, going from the worst team in history to competitive in 3-4 years to a top ten season in 6 years, all with limited support. The success leveled off after that at 8-9 wins, which meant bowls every year but one, which is damn good and he had his best team poised for success when the NFL came calling, before the B1G did, so he left, which wasn't a surprise. And RU fell to pieces fairly quickly without him after 2 decent years with his players under Flood. And now he's back to repeat the magic of the early 2000s and we're on our way.

 

[mildone]

He accomplished more in his first 6 years at RU than almost any coach ever has, going from the worst team in history to competitive in 3-4 years to a top ten season in 6 years, all with limited support. The success leveled off after that at 8-9 wins, which meant bowls every year but one, which is damn good and he had his best team poised for success when the NFL came calling, before the B1G did, so he left, which wasn't a surprise. And RU fell to pieces fairly quickly without him after 2 decent years with his players under Flood. And now he's back to repeat the magic of the early 2000s and we're on our way.

That was kind of nonresponsive to the post to which you responded. He didn't bash GS. He merely pointed out that GS doesn't belong in the same category as those other coaches he mentioned. And I agree with him about that.

GS can still get himself into that category. But he's going to have to win a heck of lot more conference games, and some against the elite teams in seasons when those teams are playing well, to get there.

Hopefully he gets it done.

 

[RU848789]

That was kind of nonresponsive to the post to which you responded. He didn't bash GS. He merely pointed out that GS doesn't belong in the same category as those other coaches he mentioned. And I agree with him about that.

GS can still get himself into that category. But he's going to have to win a heck of lot more conference games, and some against the elite teams in seasons when those teams are playing well, to get there.

Hopefully he gets it done.

Disagree completely. Yessir has done nothing but bash Schiano for years and his post above continued in that vein. I do think GS is in that category, based on what he accomplished in version 1.0. Jury is out on 2.0 obviously.

 

[DJ Spanky]

To be fair, I'm not entirely convinced of that a coach has to be a cultural fit for a school. I think it can help. But it's not a hard requirement for success.

I disagree in a lot of cases. Now if you have a real name coach coming in, an Urban Meyer, Bill Parcells, Vince Lombardi's corpse, etc., then there can be far less emphasis on that aspect in a head coach. But if it's not one of those, well, cultural fit plays a pretty big role in NJ. Not necessarily in other parts of the country: NJ is a beast in its own special category. Prime example #1: Chris Ash. Prime example #2: Terry Shea. Prime example #3: Gary Waters.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Some time back, I had written that, in order to get the sort of coach who has the national name recognition and record to turn the RUFB program around quickly, we might need to spend $10MM/year. I got laughed at and deserved the laughter because RU was never going to spend anywhere near that amount.

But since I'm a glutton for punishment, I'll say it again. For RU to succeed in the Big Ten East, we might need to spend $10MM/year to get a proven winning coach who can recruit by name alone for the first couple seasons.

Not saying we'll do it anytime soon, we obviously won't. But it might be the only way to have a chance.

Don’t agree. We are who we are on the college status totem pole. We have to accept that and do out best to be smart in how we deploy our resources. Money doesn’t really change much because there will always be programs that spend more and can outbid us.

Have to be like the Cincys, UCFs, Temples and realize our place in the landscape and be smart about it. Add in a little luck and you can be respectable.

Hypothetically, if we were looking now I’d say look at Tom Herman who I liked when he was OSU OC before he blew up or a Dan Mullen. Those kind of coaches would have a decent chance to make us respectable and be partially paid on someone else’s dime. Elko would be another but he might be looking at bigger jobs. Jeff Grimes I like as well. In some time if he proves himself a bit more maybe Liam Coen the Kentucky OC who has coached in the northeast. Point is there are always solid coaches out there that can give you a chance to be respectable and don’t break the bank.

 

[Shelby65]

And it was quite a fortuitous boon to his legacy that bc, miami and vt left a huge void in the league which enabled his amazing 3rd place finish one time (his best).

 

[DJ Spanky]

I don’t hate schiano, I’m extremely greatful for everything he did for our program, I’m just also not stuck in the past…

Yeah, just keep repeating that, maybe someday more than a few people will believe you.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Yessir has done nothing but bash Schiano for years and his post above continued in that vein.

Thank you. I'm happy to see that someone else has noticed that.

 

[fsg2]

Did you really just put GS in the same category as Harbaugh and Franklin and PJ Fleck?🤦‍♂️ Holy Christ…

I'll give you Harbaugh and Franklin, but I doubt even Fleck thinks he's in a class above Schiano.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

Did you really just put GS in the same category as Harbaugh and Franklin and PJ Fleck?🤦‍♂️ Holy Christ…

I did! and your beef is?

 

[fsg2]

The common refrains were “no one else would want this job” or “could win here” which are ridiculous views. I didn’t know about Houston but there are probably 20 people who could do at least as well as Schiano for half the price.

Name them. All 20.

Then explain to us why they would sign on to be the lowest paid coach in the B1G, just for the amazing opportunity to coach the worst team in P5 football (and then some) in one of the top 2 hardest divisions. Please bear in mind that being absolute batshit crazy, while a plausible enough reason to jump on that deal, directly interferes with any claimed potential for being a stable, difference-making coach that'd be light years ahead of Schiano by Year fkn 2.

That will take quite a while, but when you're done, please explain why that magical underpaid, overperforming hire doesn't jump immediately when given the chance, like after one successful year.

 

[AshCatchEm]

Anyone who doesn't think we're heading in the right direction is dumb as rocks

 

[DJ Spanky]

I did! and your beef is?

To paraphrase:

Schiano Man Bad!

 

[Shelby65]

Did you really just put GS in the same category as Harbaugh and Franklin and PJ Fleck?🤦‍♂️ Holy Christ…

He’s not wrong. The category: current Big10 coaches.

He’s not in any same category that matters to on-field success though.

 

[fsg2]

Anyone who doesn't think we're heading in the right direction is dumb as rocks

And those rocks deserve every molecule of their misery.

Leipold, who just went 2-10 at Kansas.

Al Golden who left Miami in disgrace to the sight of modern warplanes gunning at him. Splashy hire, bros!

Bret Bielema - who had most recently failed as a P5 HC and Schiano beat head to head THIS year.

Oh yeah, and let's pay them half the salary to get the job done. Maybe cut staff budget in half, too, since we're being so incredibly cheap with RUs money. That's always worked out great, definitely a program that soars to great heights with minimal investment.

As dumb as our ADs have been over the years, some fans manage to be infinitely dumber with shocking ease.

ETA: Butch Jones, another infamous P5 failure, who just navigated his way to a riveting 2-10 in the murderous Sun Belt West. That, after only being hired because the previous Ark State coach got hired away atop a successful, winning run.

Not sure it's worth mentioning the Dazzler, since I don't recall anyone wanting him, but given that Hobbs seemed "dazzled" enough to potentially hire him, had the pro-Schiano fan uprising not occurred, his 3-9 and 1-3 efforts at CO State are worth at least a footnote.

 

[fsg2]

He’s not wrong. The category: current Big10 coaches.

He’s not in any same category that matters to on-field success though.

You have work to do.

Shut up and get it done.

 

[mildone]

Disagree completely. Yessir has done nothing but bash Schiano for years and his post above continued in that vein. I do think GS is in that category, based on what he accomplished in version 1.0. Jury is out on 2.0 obviously.

I've been defending GS lately, and will continue to do so for another couple/few years, at least. But yeah, we disagree on GS being in the same class as those other coaches.

Here's why...

A coach is what his record says he is. And the employment history a coach has is part of that record because it reflects how they were perceived nationally when they were hired.

Harbaugh w/UM: 60-23, overall 133-89 (Initial HC job was @Stanford)
Franklin w/PSU: 62-33, overall 91-48 (Initial HC job was @Vandy)
Schiano w/RU in B1G: 8-13, overall 76-80 (Initial HC job was @RU)

The other two were hired by better programs than RU and their second CFB jobs were also better than RU. And they won everywhere they went (in college).

Whereas GS started in a worse job than them, and has returned to that same job at a time where nobody else was interested. And, obviously, his lifetime record is not nearly as good as theirs.

By their objective records, and the schools they've coached for, they are in a different class. That's the brutal, unbiased, factual, life isn't fair comparison.

To claim otherwise is confusing appreciation for all the hard, good work GS did here with an unbiased comparison. Maybe, if GS had accepted the UM job when it was offered, he'd be in their class now. But he didn't. His decision. Part of his record. Facts.

Everything else is biased speculation, one way or the other.

 

[mildone]

Anyone who doesn't think we're heading in the right direction is dumb as rocks

I think we're trending in the right direction. But we have a very long way to go before we see if that trend continues or stalls out.

And I don't think people are dumb to entertain the possibility that GS could fail here. I am neutral. I think he's doing well so far, not brilliantly though. He could succeed or fail and I wouldn't bet either way at the moment.

 

[AshCatchEm]

I think we're trending in the right direction. But we have a very long way to go before we see if that trend continues or stalls out.

And I don't think people are dumb to entertain the possibility that GS could fail here. I am neutral. I think he's doing well so far, not brilliantly though. He could succeed or fail and I wouldn't bet either way at the moment.

So you wanted a quick fix? Good for you. Completely unrealistic and not based at all on reality, but good for you.

 

[bitnez]

Penn St and Michigan historically win 8-11 games and that’s basically what Harbaugh and Franklin have given them. Rutgers historically wins 2-5 games except when Schiano is coach. He has outperformed the program. So, yeah, I don’t think it’s unrealistic to say that Schiano is similar or perhaps even better by certain metrics.

 

[Shelby65]

I've been defending GS lately, and will continue to do so for another couple/few years, at least. But yeah, we disagree on GS being in the same class as those other coaches.

Here's why...

A coach is what his record says he is. And the employment history a coach has is part of that record because it reflects how they were perceived nationally when they were hired.

Harbaugh w/UM: 60-23, overall 133-89 (Initial HC job was @Stanford)
Franklin w/PSU: 62-33, overall 91-48 (Initial HC job was @Vandy)
Schiano w/RU in B1G: 8-13, overall 76-80 (Initial HC job was @RU)

The other two were hired by better programs than RU and their second CFB jobs were also better than RU. And they won everywhere they went (in college).

Whereas GS started in a worse job than them, and has returned to that same job at a time where nobody else was interested. And, obviously, his lifetime record is not nearly as good as theirs.

By their objective records, and the schools they've coached for, they are in a different class. That's the brutal, unbiased, factual, life isn't fair comparison.

To claim otherwise is confusing appreciation for all the hard, good work GS did here with an unbiased comparison. Maybe, if GS had accepted the UM job when it was offered, he'd be in their class now. But he didn't. His decision. Part of his record. Facts.

Everything else is biased speculation, one way or the other.

How do you arrive at ‘nobody else was interested’? Absurd. Inventing your own narrative isn’t a good look.

 

[mildone]

Don’t agree. We are who we are on the college status totem pole. We have to accept that and do out best to be smart in how we deploy our resources. Money doesn’t really change much because there will always be programs that spend more and can outbid us.

Have to be like the Cincys, UCFs, Temples and realize our place in the landscape and be smart about it. Add in a little luck and you can be respectable.

Hypothetically, if we were looking now I’d say look at Tom Herman who I liked when he was OSU OC before he blew up or a Dan Mullen. Those kind of coaches would have a decent chance to make us respectable and be partially paid on someone else’s dime. Elko would be another but he might be looking at bigger jobs. Jeff Grimes I like as well. In some time if he proves himself a bit more maybe Liam Coen the Kentucky OC who has coached in the northeast. Point is there are always solid coaches out there that can give you a chance to be respectable and don’t break the bank.

I'm not saying there is no other possible path. There's always a chance.

I'm saying that it's a much, much better chance when the HC has a history of not knowing how to lose and has proven himself a winner against P5 competition. Those coaches are expensive in the best scenario, and would be even more expensive for a job as hard as turning RU into an elite B1G team.

When it comes to pure game day coaching, and player development, I'm sure there are hundreds of coaches out there who could do a great job. But an inexpensive no-name coach will always struggle to recruit to RU, no matter how great his x's and o's chops are. And the Big Ten coaches are all good enough that no amount of x's and o's brilliance can overcome huge recruiting deficits, IMO at least.

 

[mildone]

So you wanted a quick fix? Good for you. Completely unrealistic and not based at all on reality, but good for you.

You are one of those forum members who hallucinates when reading other people's posts. Where did I say I wanted a quick fix?

You really need to stop taking drugs, or work on your reading comprehension.

 

[mildone]

How do you arrive at ‘nobody else was interested’? Absurd. Inventing your own narrative isn’t a good look.

Who else was interested in GS as a CFB head coach in 2019?

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

I've been defending GS lately, and will continue to do so for another couple/few years, at least. But yeah, we disagree on GS being in the same class as those other coaches.

Here's why...

A coach is what his record says he is. And the employment history a coach has is part of that record because it reflects how they were perceived nationally when they were hired.

Harbaugh w/UM: 60-23, overall 133-89 (Initial HC job was @Stanford)
Franklin w/PSU: 62-33, overall 91-48 (Initial HC job was @Vandy)
Schiano w/RU in B1G: 8-13, overall 76-80 (Initial HC job was @RU)

The other two were hired by better programs than RU and their second CFB jobs were also better than RU. And they won everywhere they went (in college).

Whereas GS started in a worse job than them, and has returned to that same job at a time where nobody else was interested. And, obviously, his lifetime record is not nearly as good as theirs.

By their objective records, and the schools they've coached for, they are in a different class. That's the brutal, unbiased, factual, life isn't fair comparison.

To claim otherwise is confusing appreciation for all the hard, good work GS did here with an unbiased comparison. Maybe, if GS had accepted the UM job when it was offered, he'd be in their class now. But he didn't. His decision. Part of his record. Facts.

Everything else is biased speculation, one way or the other.

Mild, I am not going to get into a tit for tat with you over HCGS. Greg took arguably the worst program in college football (RU) and turned it respectable in four years. After decades of being the cellar dwellars in college football Greag had a much ,much harder job than either Harbough or Franklin. While you are correct his record says what it is, He should be judged post 2005 When his rebuild was complete. Greg can and will get this program back on track. I just hope our fans have the patience and intestinal fortitude to allow him to rebuild the program. So far from some of the fans on TKR it seems like they have forgotten the Years of the Flood and the Ash Heap. I will give greg all the time he needs just not to revisit those years.

 

[rutgersguy1]

I'm not saying there is no other possible path. There's always a chance.

I'm saying that it's a much, much better chance when the HC has a history of not knowing how to lose and has proven himself a winner against P5 competition. Those coaches are expensive in the best scenario, and would be even more expensive for a job as hard as turning RU into an elite B1G team.

When it comes to pure game day coaching, and player development, I'm sure there are hundreds of coaches out there who could do a great job. But an inexpensive no-name coach will always struggle to recruit to RU, no matter how great his x's and o's chops are. And the Big Ten coaches are all good enough that no amount of x's and o's brilliance can overcome huge recruiting deficits, IMO at least.

That’s not realistic. We’re not getting anyone on the really hot up regardless of how much we pay. What we and schools like us can do is get someone that was on the up at one time and now is on the down but is still a good coach like Herman or Mullen. Or like I said coaches on the up but not the really hot up like Grimes and such.

That is a realistic path to respectable, not a pipe dream or fantasy which imo saying paying some crazy money to such and such coach is. Those kind of coaches don’t even look at us regardless of money.

 

[mildone]

Mild, I am not going to get into a tit for tat with you over HCGS. Greg took arguably the worst program in college football (RU) and turned it respectable in four years. After decades of being the cellar dwellars in college football Greag had a much ,much harder job than either Harbough or Franklin. While you are correct his record says what it is, He should be judged post 2005 When his rebuild was complete. Greg can and will get this program back on track. I just hope our fans have the patience and intestinal fortitude to allow him to rebuild the program. So far from some of the fans on TKR it seems like they have forgotten the Years of the Flood and the Ash Heap. I will give greg all the time he needs just not to revisit those years.

I'm not really judging him. The other two started higher and did better by the only objective measure we have.

Everything is opinion or speculation. When people talk about what category the three coaches should be in, he doesn't qualify w/them unless one discards the facts and just builds a case based on speculation and opinion. Would GS have done as well as they did starting in the same place?

Maybe. Maybe not. We'll never know.

 

[Pils86]

Penn St and Michigan historically win 8-11 games and that’s basically what Harbaugh and Franklin have given them. Rutgers historically wins 2-5 games except when Schiano is coach. He has outperformed the program. So, yeah, I don’t think it’s unrealistic to say that Schiano is similar or perhaps even better by certain metrics.

I don't mind you defending Schiano but please don't diss RU to do it. Historically RU is a .500 team, and Schiano is also about .500 here. With a 12 game schedule we would historically win 6 games.

 

[RU848789]

I've been defending GS lately, and will continue to do so for another couple/few years, at least. But yeah, we disagree on GS being in the same class as those other coaches.

Here's why...

A coach is what his record says he is. And the employment history a coach has is part of that record because it reflects how they were perceived nationally when they were hired.

Harbaugh w/UM: 60-23, overall 133-89 (Initial HC job was @Stanford)
Franklin w/PSU: 62-33, overall 91-48 (Initial HC job was @Vandy)
Schiano w/RU in B1G: 8-13, overall 76-80 (Initial HC job was @RU)

The other two were hired by better programs than RU and their second CFB jobs were also better than RU. And they won everywhere they went (in college).

Whereas GS started in a worse job than them, and has returned to that same job at a time where nobody else was interested. And, obviously, his lifetime record is not nearly as good as theirs.

By their objective records, and the schools they've coached for, they are in a different class. That's the brutal, unbiased, factual, life isn't fair comparison.

To claim otherwise is confusing appreciation for all the hard, good work GS did here with an unbiased comparison. Maybe, if GS had accepted the UM job when it was offered, he'd be in their class now. But he didn't. His decision. Part of his record. Facts.

Everything else is biased speculation, one way or the other.

blah, blah, blah, blah - we've covered this before and you completely don't understand where RU was when he was hired in 2000. One really needs to discount his 12-34 start with 1AA players who were as soft as the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. That puts him at 56-33, which is quite good with RU's lack of support - expecting him to have the same record as coaches of those two top 10 all-time programs that are incredibly well supported and recruit themselves is just nuts. It's highly likely Greg would have done just as well at PSU and UM. Same will be true this time around, where he'll be truly judged after about year 3 or 4, and I think we'll like that record.

 

[DJ Spanky]

blah, blah, blah, blah - we've covered this before and you completely don't understand where RU was when he was hired in 2000. One really needs to discount his 12-34 start with 1AA players who were as soft as the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.

Also taking into account that his predecessor was 11-44 in the prior 5 seasons.

 

[jor22]

Really won't start to see a change until year 4.

 

[Shelby65]

Who else was interested in GS as a CFB head coach in 2019?

your wording suggested to me that no one else was interested in this job (not that there were other suitors for him, which of course there were not and for good reason).

 

[mildone]

your wording suggested to me that no one else was interested in this job (not that there were other suitors for him, which of course there were not and for good reason).

Went back and looked and yeah, my wording was very ambiguous. But I meant that nobody else was interested in GS (at least as a head coach) at the time. I’m sure other people would’ve been interested in the RU job, depending on contract details.

 

[MADHAT1]

Went back and looked and yeah, my wording was very ambiguous. But I meant that nobody else was interested in GS (at least as a head coach) at the time. I’m sure other people would’ve been interested in the RU job, depending on contract details.

Major programs probably weren't interested in Greg, maybe some G-5 ones might have been , but don't remember hearing any rumors trying Schiano to a college HC position.
As for who was interested in replacing Ash, don't think the good candidates would even interview with what Rutgers probably was offering.