At what point as a Head Coach do you stop recruiting high school players?

[Greene Rice FIG]

We have 1 guy left in the program that Pike has recruited. At what point do you acknowledge the landscape that we are in and assume every year you start from scratch?

Imagine being a coach in a non Power conference...it is much worse.

As a fan it is tough to get excited about anyone incoming freshman other than the 2 that are obviously ready to compete right now.

 

[RedTeam1994]

It's a good question.

 

[RW90]

We have 1 guy left in the program that Pike has recruited. At what point do you acknowledge the landscape that we are in and assume every year you start from scratch?

Imagine being a coach in a non Power conference...it is much worse.

As a fan it is tough to get excited about anyone incoming freshman other than the 2 that are obviously ready to compete right now.

Some reports speculate Nick Saban retired due to the changing NIL landscape, and he has seven national titles. 🙁

 

[bac2therac]

its a very good questions, alot more known quantity and bounty in the portal than in wasting time cultivating 4 year relationships with a player, his coaches, handlers, and family. The best coaches will be able to navigating by relying almost exclusvely on portal for their starters and then using their high school recruits as backups

 

[Freddy Stubbs]

I was just thinking the same thing. Why waste years building relationships, going to high school and AAU games if none of those kids are going to be at your school more than 2 years?
Spend all of your time watching film of guys in college and hit the portal hard every year.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Some reports speculate Nick Saban retired due to the changing NIL landscape, and he has seven national titles. 🙁

I played for years in a fantasy baseball league and was more successful than most. Our league decided to change the format and allow players to be kept. This meant teams out of contention would pay a lot for young players because they had nothing to lose. I didn't adapt (and didn't want to) and stopped having success and got irritated that teams would get better 2/3 thru the season by trading to teams out of contention.

I took my ball and left, just like Saban.

 

[Pdabs]

Deion Sanders, hate him or not, said something along the lines of why waste time on a 17 year old when I can bring in a grown man. He often stated he has a 40-40-20 plan with recruiting: grad transfers, undergrad transfers, high school.

 

[rufeelinit]

Very soon. You see certain football teams taking less HS kids. It’s even easier in Basketball where the HS kids may have to start at lower levels and prove themselves.

 

[seansherm]

With NIL it all depends on how much $ you have to spread around. Good HS kids may cost less than some portal kids.

 

[RU_03]

Same reason folks are questioning Calipari and his recruiting strategy....

 

[RUDivision]

Fair question and coaches will have to decide to go the Calpari route or recruit lesser valued HS prospects and develop them into 4/5 year players. Instead of using your Nil budget on top recruits you will utilize those dollars to keep home grown developed talent.
There will be blue bloods who can do both but it will be interesting to watch moving forward

 

[ClassOf02]

It’s a very good topic. Just imagine if all P5 coaches adopted this mindset and the mid-majors ended up being the spot for freshmen — for a year and then the become the feeding ground for P5. Top HS guys will still land in P5 for sure, but it would send an interesting message.

 

[bac2therac]

the split will happen....power 64 schools and the rest....the smaller schools will act as the farm system...its coming and seperate tournaments

 

[RUDivision]

the split will happen....power 64 schools and the rest....the smaller schools will act as the farm system...its coming and seperate tournaments

Don’t disagree but there is NO reason we shouldn’t be one of those 64 schools IMO

 

[Mr_Twister]

Recruiting might make sense if you can get players to agree to a multi-year commitment, or there is an NIL cap.

 

[RUbacker]

Some reports speculate Nick Saban retired due to the changing NIL landscape, and he has seven national titles. 🙁

It’s a fact not speculation

 

[RULegion]

To answer the question originally posted. Now

 

[Eagleton96]

I’d structure 2 or 3 year NIL deals that have a balloon payment after year 2

 

[Rhuarc]

I’d structure 2 or 3 year NIL deals that have a balloon payment after year 2

Something like this could work. It would need to be structured based on achievements however. The money would have to be huge to get this to work though.

 

[Eagleton96]

Something like this could work. It would need to be structured based on achievements however. The money would have to be huge to get this to work though.

I think the contracts would quickly get as sophisticated as the pros. With items being subject to negotiation including percent of the contract that is guaranteed or subject to conditions.

 

[RU848789]

We have 1 guy left in the program that Pike has recruited. At what point do you acknowledge the landscape that we are in and assume every year you start from scratch?

Imagine being a coach in a non Power conference...it is much worse.

As a fan it is tough to get excited about anyone incoming freshman other than the 2 that are obviously ready to compete right now.

The decrease in continuity and loss of loyalty in today's world is directly proportional to my lack of interest and decrease in posting on Rutgers sports. As I said a few weeks ago, free agency in baseball killed my interest in cheering for what were my favorite teams in my childhood and this is somewhat analogous.

 

[Eagleton96]

The decrease in continuity and loss of loyalty in today's world is directly proportional to my lack of interest and decrease in posting on Rutgers sports. As I said a few weeks ago, free agency in baseball killed my interest in cheering for what were my favorite teams in my childhood and this is somewhat analogous.

Totally fair conclusion

 

[darkcheck]

the split will happen....power 64 schools and the rest....the smaller schools will act as the farm system...its coming and seperate tournaments

This makes sense. Bac does the ncaa cease to exist or does it reign over the non-64?

 

[darkcheck]

With NIL it all depends on how much $ you have to spread around. Good HS kids may cost less than some portal kids.

This! But regarding the OP if you do have an NiL budget I agree it makes sense just to bring in portal kids.

 

[RUsojo]

We have 1 guy left in the program that Pike has recruited. At what point do you acknowledge the landscape that we are in and assume every year you start from scratch?

Imagine being a coach in a non Power conference...it is much worse.

As a fan it is tough to get excited about anyone incoming freshman other than the 2 that are obviously ready to compete right now.

Never

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Ultimately, if you are a top HS prospect (outside the Top 20) you have to pick a program that has minutes available for you (15 to 20) OR you have to be realistic about your playing career.

What I find somewhat interesting is how the schools like Purdue navigate this process because they appear to have a roster of tighter knit players and roster, where adding 1 grad transfer or portal kid, looks like their pattern of development. Most of what Matt Painter has been able to build, is still based on the HS level, with kids who are willing to redshirt or wait their turn.

I know Zach Edey gets a lot of the headlines, but they have a solid roster beyond Edey of B+ players.

For RU, it is the new normal and finally arriving to big time basketball and sports....RU has never had enough talent to "recruit over " kids....instead we hoped and prayed those kids developed. Now, you have no choice but to recruit over younger players who aren't contributing early in their careers OR kids who don't progress as frosh or sophomores.

I have said since last year that a best case scenario was to play as many underclassmen this year and see who would be good enough to contribute in 2024-25. Like it or not, we truly found out in 2023-24, what work has to be done to upgrade the holes on the roster. And I'd rather find out now about what that depth looks like today after watching a JMike Davis and JWill perform.....the ones that didn't improve or work hard enough to develop, are gone.

If that means some RU fans are somehow upset that we are trying to improve and win (not sure why) I think standing pat and hoping, has serious risk.

In football, if you are a 19 year old offensive lineman, you'll likely struggle to block a 21 or 22 year old defensive lineman. It's essentially the same concept in basketball being adopted by programs. Find experience and talent that's really ready and plug holes.

 

[High Quality H2O]

We have 1 guy left in the program that Pike has recruited. At what point do you acknowledge the landscape that we are in and assume every year you start from scratch?

Imagine being a coach in a non Power conference...it is much worse.

As a fan it is tough to get excited about anyone incoming freshman other than the 2 that are obviously ready to compete right now.

Thought the same thing.

HS Recruiting is super inefficient use of resources. Spend 18 months when you can do it in a fraction of the time to get an older kid.

The best reason to keep recruiting HS it to germinate relationships to be harvested later in the portal.

Maybe change to put in way less effort per recruit but try to OV more kids in total.
Widen the net.

 

[RUJMM78]

Recruiting high school players will change from looking at potential to those who are talent ready as freshmen. That will be hard to discern as seen with Griffiths.

 

[runrutgersrun]

If you were to make list of circumstances that would most deter RU from being successful in competing in the world of 'big time' college sports, almost all of the events of the last couple years would be first and foremost on said list. I actually started to think with the return of Schiano and hiring of Coach Pike, program builders, we were going to have a chance to 'belong'. Now, once again, I am not so sure. When guys like Saban and Wright say goodbye, from programs with storied histories and significant war chests, I am very pessimistic that RU can ever be successful. I'll never desert the Knights but...go RU!

 

[RUBOB72]

The decrease in continuity and loss of loyalty in today's world is directly proportional to my lack of interest and decrease in posting on Rutgers sports. As I said a few weeks ago, free agency in baseball killed my interest in cheering for what were my favorite teams in my childhood and this is somewhat analogous.

Agree with you on this… 🪓

 

[Degaz-RU]

We have 1 guy left in the program that Pike has recruited. At what point do you acknowledge the landscape that we are in and assume every year you start from scratch?

Imagine being a coach in a non Power conference...it is much worse.

As a fan it is tough to get excited about anyone incoming freshman other than the 2 that are obviously ready to compete right now.

Valid question. Coaches certainly have to adjust their recruiting strategy, that’s for sure.

I wonder if the strategy would be to go for top 20 players who can contribute immediately, plus go for developmental players who should be around at least two years, and then focus on the portal for key starters and key reserves.

What a sh*t show.

 

[BillyC80]

A few thoughts on all this:
1. Chaos was heightened due to the extra Covid year, creating the perfect storm with portal/NIL.
2. The same number of players will emerge from high school every year, so the same flow of talent will continue upward into the college level.
3. Teams will recruit high school players AND get or lose guys in the portal. Every team is part of this new normal.
4. If we go to multi-year contracts I think that opens the door for players under contract to be “traded” to other teams, like the pros.
5. In the end we will still have exciting college basketball to watch, we just won’t have student athletes who are “loyal sons” to root for anymore.

 

[Eagleton96]

A few thoughts on all this:
1. Chaos was heightened due to the extra Covid year, creating the perfect storm with portal/NIL.
2. The same number of players will emerge from high school every year, so the same flow of talent will continue upward into the college level.
3. Teams will recruit high school players AND get or lose guys in the portal. Every team is part of this new normal.
4. If we go to multi-year contracts I think that opens the door for players under contract to be “traded” to other teams, like the pros.
5. In the end we will still have exciting college basketball to watch, we just won’t have student athletes who are “loyal sons” to root for anymore.

I don't think that will open the door to trading without major changes to the rules. Currently schools and teams aren't involved directly in the NIL deals, and they have no rights to control the players. So, no trading.

 

[BillyC80]

I don't think that will open the door to trading without major changes to the rules. Currently schools and teams aren't involved directly in the NIL deals, and they have no rights to control the players. So, no trading.

I understand what you’re saying, that the NIL deals are not made directly by the school. Does that mean a specific school is not named in the NIL contract?

I’m thinking the school has to be named in the NIL contract for recruiting or transfer purposes. If that’s true then a multi-year deal would bind the player to that school for those years, would it not?

And if that’s true, then the concept of a trade, as a clause in multi-year agreements, may not be so far-fetched.

 

[RUBOB72]

A few thoughts on all this:
1. Chaos was heightened due to the extra Covid year, creating the perfect storm with portal/NIL.
2. The same number of players will emerge from high school every year, so the same flow of talent will continue upward into the college level.
3. Teams will recruit high school players AND get or lose guys in the portal. Every team is part of this new normal.
4. If we go to multi-year contracts I think that opens the door for players under contract to be “traded” to other teams, like the pros.
5. In the end we will still have exciting college basketball to watch, we just won’t have student athletes who are “loyal sons” to root for anymore.

This idea of trading will only lead to more issues. The possibilities of player X saying ,”I only will go to one of these schools listed.” If you actually think more lawsuits will not happen then you are being a little dense… what body of schools is going to put that scenario in place… what reps of the players would agree to this? Face it … this is becoming a comedy show for most of college programs including a powerhouse like Rutgers.🪓🪓🪓🪓

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

A few thoughts on all this:
1. Chaos was heightened due to the extra Covid year, creating the perfect storm with portal/NIL.
2. The same number of players will emerge from high school every year, so the same flow of talent will continue upward into the college level.
3. Teams will recruit high school players AND get or lose guys in the portal. Every team is part of this new normal.
4. If we go to multi-year contracts I think that opens the door for players under contract to be “traded” to other teams, like the pros.
5. In the end we will still have exciting college basketball to watch, we just won’t have student athletes who are “loyal sons” to root for anymore.

1 shouldn't be underestimated
4 will happen VERY SOON, but trades will never

problem is all this is and will be in the dark.

 

[TDIrish27]

Deion Sanders, hate him or not, said something along the lines of why waste time on a 17 year old when I can bring in a grown man. He often stated he has a 40-40-20 plan with recruiting: grad transfers, undergrad transfers, high school.

How's that working for Deion ?

 

[Eagleton96]

I understand what you’re saying, that the NIL deals are not made directly by the school. Does that mean a specific school is not named in the NIL contract?

I’m thinking the school has to be named in the NIL contract for recruiting or transfer purposes. If that’s true then a multi-year deal would bind the player to that school for those years, would it not?

And if that’s true, then the concept of a trade, as a clause in multi-year agreements, may not be so far-fetched.

The contract would have to have clauses stipulating the contract is void, and the balloon payment is not paid, if the player leaves a certain school. That's not enough to enable trading though. There is nothing that prevents a player from leaving to another school whenever, or prevents that other school from taking the player. The only disincentive to the player not to leave after a year would be that they aren't getting money they essentially earned in year 1 that is built into the year 2 balloon payment.

 

[BillyC80]

The contract would have to have clauses stipulating the contract is void, and the balloon payment is not paid, if the player leaves a certain school. That's not enough to enable trading though. There is nothing that prevents a player from leaving to another school whenever, or prevents that other school from taking the player. The only disincentive to the player not to leave after a year would be that they aren't getting money they essentially earned in year 1 that is built into the year 2 balloon payment.

Right, so multi-year contracts will essentially have no teeth, because whatever money a player walks away from in his second year, he can make up by getting the same or better deal at another school.

If NIL deals are not tied to a specific school contractually, then multi-year deals aren’t the answer to all the free-agent movement every year.

 

[Eagleton96]

Right, so multi-year contracts will essentially have no teeth, because whatever money a player walks away from in his second year, he can make up by getting the same or better deal at another school.

If NIL deals are not tied to a specific school contractually, then multi-year deals aren’t the answer to all the free-agent movement every year.

Again, the contract would be tied to a particular school. There’s nothing to stop a player from leaving before the player cashes out on the bulk of the contract. But it would be a major disincentive.

So if the players fair market value is 500 K a year, you offer them a two year deal for 1 million, and 900k of it is only payable after the completion of year two.

At the end of year one the player could jump. But to make the money equal, some other school would have to offer them essentially a one year deal for 900k. And the original school would’ve gotten that player for one year for 100k.