Not that it matters....

[seansherm]

There were a number of things that went wrong in that game. Not one specific thing. Green’s point on Gavin is not inaccurate though. The easy baskets we gave up on broken coverage back door cuts because he lost sight of the ball came at noticeably bad points in the game on multiple occasions where Gavin had just checked back in after we had finally gotten a few stops on D. It stood out badly. There’s a difference between Hyatt failing to close out in time on perimeter D and what was observable with Gavin. Gavin clearly had no idea how to maintain sight of where the ball was, and was absolutely clueless on when a switch was required due to screen or otherwise. I agree with Green - had never seen anything quite like it before in a televised BB game.

I agree, Gavin was awful defensively at all points that game and for 4/5ths of the season, but I wasn't going to pin much of anything against him as a reason we lost that game, but went back and see we were actually outscored by 23 when he was on the court. I don't remember it being that bad!

Even with that it was tied in the 2nd half. Hyatt, Simpson, Noah, and JMike combined to shoot 6 for 30. We outscored them in the paint, on the break, off the bench (by 25), off turnovers, ect. We just didn't make shots. Even held PU to 43% shooting overall. Sadly 45% from three buried us.

 

[Degaz-RU]

Gavin was also at fault for the ridiculous traffic and nobody being able to get into the CURE Arena on time. What a disastrous experience all around.

 

[NickRU714]

There were a number of things that went wrong in that game. Not one specific thing. Green’s point on Gavin is not inaccurate though. The easy baskets we gave up on broken coverage back door cuts because he lost sight of the ball came at noticeably bad points in the game on multiple occasions where Gavin had just checked back in after we had finally gotten a few stops on D. It stood out badly. There’s a difference between Hyatt failing to close out in time on perimeter D and what was observable with Gavin. Gavin clearly had no idea how to maintain sight of where the ball was, and was absolutely clueless on when a switch was required due to screen or otherwise. I agree with Green - had never seen anything quite like it before in a televised BB game.

You should probably rewatch the game.
None of that happened.
There are no multiple "easy baskets" that ruined defensive stops.

Conveniently, there is a 1 hour replay of the game on YT with no commercials.
For your ease, here are times GG was in the game. (Reminder, he played 13min. The least of anyone on the team).

• Start of game until 15:51 (final play he actually plays well on ball defense, denies the ball, then turns and looks to box out while Hyatt gives up an easy 3 on the opposite side).
• 8:34 until 7:19
• 3:03 until end of 1st half
  
  
• 11:12 until 7:56
  Princeton went on a run with Clif giving up multiple easy open 3s and easy drives, AWill giving up multiple baskets)
• 40 seconds left until end of game

Gavin wasn't great but he wasn't horrific as people seem to remember. He's actually completely invisible for the most part.
Two plays he was involved with giving up points:

1. Gavin gave up an easy 3 because he played too far off his guy and got caught on a ball reversal.
   He seemed to play really far off his man on the weak side. Almost trying too hard to be a help defender in the middle.
2. 7:30 left in 1st half: Hyatt's man came over to set an off-ball screen on Gavin. But he faked the screen, and cut himself to the hoop for a layup.
   Hyatt bit on the fake, switched to Gavin's man too quick and lost his own man to the hoop. Gavin chased Hyatt's man to the rim and fouled him for a 3 point play. Not good with the foul but that was either Hyatt's fault or really just a great play design by Princeton.

 

[NickRU714]

Check out the first play of the 2nd half for an actual defender losing his man.
JMike just stands watching the ball while Xaivian Lee goes right behind him for an easy offensive rebound and draws a foul.
JMike was so far behind the play he ran into Clif and got knocked to the ground.
Maybe people think that was Gavin?


Want to see when the game actually turns?
Check out 55-54 with about 4min left.
We cut it to 1 point after 3 FTs from Noah.

We press and AWill immediately loses Xaivian Lee who goes down the court for possibly the easiest layup of his career while Clif, Hyatt and JMike just stand around not stopping the ball.
JMike then misses an open 3.
Followed by Lee turning AWill around in circles for an even easier layup.

We were never close again.

 

[lion1983]

I agree, Gavin was awful defensively at all points that game and for 4/5ths of the season, but I wasn't going to pin much of anything against him as a reason we lost that game, but went back and see we were actually outscored by 23 when he was on the court. I don't remember it being that bad!

Even with that it was tied in the 2nd half. Hyatt, Simpson, Noah, and JMike combined to shoot 6 for 30. We outscored them in the paint, on the break, off the bench (by 25), off turnovers, ect. We just didn't make shots. Even held PU to 43% shooting overall. Sadly 45% from three buried us.

Ouch ... you apparently also have too much time, as do I, LOL!

Princeton game was a sh*t show, for sure.

Overall (not in response to you or any specific poster) ... last season was awful, at many levels. Upon reading this thread, and many posts, as well as the research I did that has been posted on this thread, while of course this falls on the coach and the staff, the primary problems of last season were, in no particular order:

1) Spencer leaving RU in the lurch, unable to replace him with a similar quality player, by transferring out in May (not as concerned about Mulcahy leaving in June - not sure he would have made such a difference, especially seeing him do at Washington, exactly what he had done his last season at RU).

2) Omoruyi NOT improving (and in fact, in my opinion, regressing). I was startled when yesterday I looked at Omoruyi game by game and saw that RU was 9-0 when he went double-double: I had not been aware of that. I HAD known he was outplayed by almost every even adequate Center RU faced last season ... which was NOT supposed to happen. Especially without Spencer, RU NEEDED an Omoruyi who progressed offensively, averaging 15 ppg and 10-11 rpg ... which he did not close to doing, in addition to letting other centers run rough shod over him (maybe that was missing the help defense of McConnell, who was so special, and basically a big fat zero from Mag).

3) In the absence of Spencer and Mulcahy, REGRESSION from Simpson. Without Spencer and Mulcahy, and even maybe if Griffiths averaged double digits in points, RU NEEDED Simpson to play like he did the last 6 games of the year before, where it looked like he might be a shorter, but more athletic version of Baker. In those last 6 games, Simpson scored 82 points (15.5 ppg), 13 assists, 8 TO, 18 rebounds, 6 steals, 32-81 FG (39.5%), 3-18 FG ... so 29-63 2 pointers (46%) and 15-20 FT. He played very well in 5 of those 6 games, got good shots, and made them - though poor 3-point shooting. FYI, last season, Simpson PLAYED a pretty good floor game (93 assists to 48 turnovers (decent at least), 44 steals, averaging 26 mpg ... but his shooting .,.. ugh ... I am pretty sure the stats showed he was LITERALLY the worst FG% shooter in the country with above a certain (20%?) usage rate? And also the worst TWO-point FG% shooter in the country. There was just no overcoming that.

 

[seansherm]

You should probably rewatch the game.
None of that happened.
There are no multiple "easy baskets" that ruined defensive stops.

Conveniently, there is a 1 hour replay of the game on YT with no commercials.
For your ease, here are times GG was in the game. (Reminder, he played 13min. The least of anyone on the team).

• Start of game until 15:51 (final play he actually plays well on ball defense, denies the ball, then turns and looks to box out while Hyatt gives up an easy 3 on the opposite side).
• 8:34 until 7:19
• 3:03 until end of 1st half
  
  
• 11:12 until 7:56
  Princeton went on a run with Clif giving up multiple easy open 3s and easy drives, AWill giving up multiple baskets)
• 40 seconds left until end of game

Gavin wasn't great but he wasn't horrific as people seem to remember. He's actually completely invisible for the most part.
Two plays he was involved with giving up points:

1. Gavin gave up an easy 3 because he played too far off his guy and got caught on a ball reversal.
   He seemed to play really far off his man on the weak side. Almost trying too hard to be a help defender in the middle.
2. 7:30 left in 1st half: Hyatt's man came over to set an off-ball screen on Gavin. But he faked the screen, and cut himself to the hoop for a layup.
   Hyatt bit on the fake, switched to Gavin's man too quick and lost his own man to the hoop. Gavin chased Hyatt's man to the rim and fouled him for a 3 point play. Not good with the foul but that was either Hyatt's fault or really just a great play design by Princeton.

View embedded media

The invisibility is what I remember, but the fact we were outscored by 23 in that short time he was on the court is pretty damning.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

The invisibility is what I remember, but the fact we were outscored by 23 in that short time he was on the court is pretty damning.

So it was all on one player instead of five? The stat is very misleading if he played the least, seems like the issues had a lot to do with the others on the floor more than him.

 

[seansherm]

Ouch ... you apparently also have too much time, as do I, LOL!

Princeton game was a sh*t show, for sure.

Overall (not in response to you or any specific poster) ... last season was awful, at many levels. Upon reading this thread, and many posts, as well as the research I did that has been posted on this thread, while of course this falls on the coach and the staff, the primary problems of last season were, in no particular order:

1) Spencer leaving RU in the lurch, unable to replace him with a similar quality player, by transferring out in May (not as concerned about Mulcahy leaving in June - not sure he would have made such a difference, especially seeing him do at Washington, exactly what he had done his last season at RU).

2) Omoruyi NOT improving (and in fact, in my opinion, regressing). I was startled when yesterday I looked at Omoruyi game by game and saw that RU was 9-0 when he went double-double: I had not been aware of that. I HAD known he was outplayed by almost every even adequate Center RU faced last season ... which was NOT supposed to happen. Especially without Spencer, RU NEEDED an Omoruyi who progressed offensively, averaging 15 ppg and 10-11 rpg ... which he did not close to doing, in addition to letting other centers run rough shod over him (maybe that was missing the help defense of McConnell, who was so special, and basically a big fat zero from Mag).

3) In the absence of Spencer and Mulcahy, REGRESSION from Simpson. Without Spencer and Mulcahy, and even maybe if Griffiths averaged double digits in points, RU NEEDED Simpson to play like he did the last 6 games of the year before, where it looked like he might be a shorter, but more athletic version of Baker. In those last 6 games, Simpson scored 82 points (15.5 ppg), 13 assists, 8 TO, 18 rebounds, 6 steals, 32-81 FG (39.5%), 3-18 FG ... so 29-63 2 pointers (46%) and 15-20 FT. He played very well in 5 of those 6 games, got good shots, and made them - though poor 3-point shooting. FYI, last season, Simpson PLAYED a pretty good floor game (93 assists to 48 turnovers (decent at least), 44 steals, averaging 26 mpg ... but his shooting .,.. ugh ... I am pretty sure the stats showed he was LITERALLY the worst FG% shooter in the country with above a certain (20%?) usage rate? And also the worst TWO-point FG% shooter in the country. There was just no overcoming that.

Yeah, the team was in trouble the minute Cam, and Paul, walked out the door. I think Paul was a bigger loss than we give credit for. He isn't a great player by any stretch, but he gave us some additional length, had actually played very solid defense his last year here, rebounded solidly, could knock down a shot when left alone, ect. The team could have used more veteran leadership LY too. Cam's loss goes without saying.

Cliff was what he was. I'm not sure it was regression any more than it was guys around him who really didn't know how to play team basketball or get Cliff in spots he could be successful. His advanced #'s were pretty similar to years prior too. I didn't expect some leap, he'd shown what he was. While they needed him to be good offensively, I'm not sure it was a fair expectation. I might have been more disappointed in Woolfolk. I thought he flashed a little his freshman year, then looked good against Princeton and played ok in his limited minutes early. It then felt like he vanished after that.

I happen to agree that Simpson, outside of ridiculously offensive shooting, was ok with the rest of his game. I do disagree that he was good those last 6 games the prior year, I thought he was just very high usage and went into last season saying not to be enamored by those games. The best part of those 6 games was he opened it up for Cam, who scored more over that time if I remember correctly.

 

[seansherm]

So it was all on one player instead of five? The stat is very misleading if he played the least, seems like the issues had a lot to do with the others on the floor more than him.

No, of course it wasn't just him, but they went on a run every time he stepped on the court. I'm not a big +/- person as there are so many factors, but we were down 8 when we took him out, came back, put him back in, got outscored by a decent number quickly, pulled him, then it happened two more times that game. That game was tied 5 times in the first half, but we were outscored by 15 in the minutes he was on the court. Then outscored by 8 in his one run in the second.
I've already said we lost because of the four guards/wing that combined to shoot 6 for 30.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Ouch ... you apparently also have too much time, as do I, LOL!

Princeton game was a sh*t show, for sure.

Overall (not in response to you or any specific poster) ... last season was awful, at many levels. Upon reading this thread, and many posts, as well as the research I did that has been posted on this thread, while of course this falls on the coach and the staff, the primary problems of last season were, in no particular order:

1) Spencer leaving RU in the lurch, unable to replace him with a similar quality player, by transferring out in May (not as concerned about Mulcahy leaving in June - not sure he would have made such a difference, especially seeing him do at Washington, exactly what he had done his last season at RU).

2) Omoruyi NOT improving (and in fact, in my opinion, regressing). I was startled when yesterday I looked at Omoruyi game by game and saw that RU was 9-0 when he went double-double: I had not been aware of that. I HAD known he was outplayed by almost every even adequate Center RU faced last season ... which was NOT supposed to happen. Especially without Spencer, RU NEEDED an Omoruyi who progressed offensively, averaging 15 ppg and 10-11 rpg ... which he did not close to doing, in addition to letting other centers run rough shod over him (maybe that was missing the help defense of McConnell, who was so special, and basically a big fat zero from Mag).

3) In the absence of Spencer and Mulcahy, REGRESSION from Simpson. Without Spencer and Mulcahy, and even maybe if Griffiths averaged double digits in points, RU NEEDED Simpson to play like he did the last 6 games of the year before, where it looked like he might be a shorter, but more athletic version of Baker. In those last 6 games, Simpson scored 82 points (15.5 ppg), 13 assists, 8 TO, 18 rebounds, 6 steals, 32-81 FG (39.5%), 3-18 FG ... so 29-63 2 pointers (46%) and 15-20 FT. He played very well in 5 of those 6 games, got good shots, and made them - though poor 3-point shooting. FYI, last season, Simpson PLAYED a pretty good floor game (93 assists to 48 turnovers (decent at least), 44 steals, averaging 26 mpg ... but his shooting .,.. ugh ... I am pretty sure the stats showed he was LITERALLY the worst FG% shooter in the country with above a certain (20%?) usage rate? And also the worst TWO-point FG% shooter in the country. There was just no overcoming that.

I agree Spencer and Mulcahy leaving late had a negative impact on the team, but things just went off the rails at the beginning on the season. The team was lost, didn’t look motivated, didn’t look like they got along, didn’t understand their roles and couldn’t shoot.

Even with the losses of Spencer and Mulcahy, we had way more talent than Princeton. They won because they came ready to play, and outhustled and outmuscled us. Mitch Henderson put on a coaching clinic that day and Princeton embarassed us.

But that was not the low point. I know I keep bringing this up, but STONEHILL WAS THE LOW POINT. They only fielded 6 low major scholarship players, the rest were walkons. Their tallest player was listed at 6’8” and was probably a couple inches shorter. This was literally one of the worst basketball games ever played by a power 6 team. You could literally have gone to any number of playgrounds in the Tri-state area and fielded a team that could handily beat Stonehill last year.

The team did have their little run once JWill became eligible, but something was badly wrong last year.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

So it was all on one player instead of five? The stat is very misleading if he played the least, seems like the issues had a lot to do with the others on the floor more than him.

We broke it down, possession by possession it was a team effort for sure.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

No, of course it wasn't just him, but they went on a run every time he stepped on the court. I'm not a big +/- person as there are so many factors, but we were down 8 when we took him out, came back, put him back in, got outscored by a decent number quickly, pulled him, then it happened two more times that game. That game was tied 5 times in the first half, but we were outscored by 15 in the minutes he was on the court. Then outscored by 8 in his one run in the second.
I've already said we lost because of the four guards/wing that combined to shoot 6 for 30.

It wasn’t just him. Folks are pointing to other plays where other guys sucked. No doubt. He wasn’t the only one who wasn’t good in that game. Not at all.

With Gavin, it wasn’t just regular sucking. He made it like 4 on 5 at all times because it was obvious he did not know how to play man D. His back was to the ball often which you rarely see amongst college level defenders - when you do that you may as well not play D and just rest because you serve no purpose. Actually worse - since you don’t know where the ball is, you often get in the way of other defenders on your team trying to position themselves properly in the planned scheme (shift to proper position between their own man and ball). I get that most people don’t focus on this and just watching if the ball goes through the net and the score. I like D. If you went into it with an eye for assessing D what you’d have observed from Gavin in this game was astounding.