When do we get to turn around the roster and significantly improve?
It’s the Jimmys and the Joes.
It’s the Jimmys and the Joes.
One year Minnesota, the next Nebraska
- Thread starter soundcrib
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18 effectively add Johnson Kiss Mathis Carter Harper Jr
19 pray for Hyatt Dixon Mulcahy
So 2018-19 or 2019-2020
19 pray for Hyatt Dixon Mulcahy
So 2018-19 or 2019-2020
Yup. Next year I believe we can be better record wise if Corey returns. If he doesn’t, I’m not sure what to expect honestly. In 19-20, that’s when we need to see a guaranteed winning record and I don’t know if I’m off-base, but at least the NIT.
We have to add impact players. It's as simple as that. Doucoure was a 4* but he is clearly not an impact player. Omoruyi adds a lot on defense but he is not an impact player on offense. Thiam isn't either even though I still think he's a nice piece (tonight excepted). I'm not convinced that Peter Kiss or Ron Harper or Shaq Carter is an impact guy. We better hope Montez Mathis is.
Getting the Martin twins as transfers from NC State (now killing it at Nevada) would have been huge. Unfortunately we haven't gotten anyone even close to that.
Minnesota turned around because they got Reggie Lynch as a transfer, and Amir Coffey was a 4-star recruit who made an impact.
Nebraska got James Palmer to transfer from Miami and Isaac Copeland from Georgetown.
Meanwhile our transfers have been from UNC-Wilmington (Gettys) and Quinnipiac (Kiss). Sorry but those aren't guys you build a winning program around in the Big Ten.
Getting the Martin twins as transfers from NC State (now killing it at Nevada) would have been huge. Unfortunately we haven't gotten anyone even close to that.
Minnesota turned around because they got Reggie Lynch as a transfer, and Amir Coffey was a 4-star recruit who made an impact.
Nebraska got James Palmer to transfer from Miami and Isaac Copeland from Georgetown.
Meanwhile our transfers have been from UNC-Wilmington (Gettys) and Quinnipiac (Kiss). Sorry but those aren't guys you build a winning program around in the Big Ten.
Get what you're saying but it's like you're saying there's no possibility of an underperforming frosh to turn into an impact player.
It's impossible to have a final outlook on thiam, Eugene and doucores career's. You're talking about 3 underclassmen.
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The context of the thread is teams turning around quickly. Coffey being an impact freshman helped a lot.
OTOH with Minnesota, Jordan Murphy was NOT an impact guy as a freshman and is double-double machine as a junior. So of course it can happen that way.
I am hoping that even though he could not make a shot tonight, that Issa's increased aggressiveness on the offensive end will pay dividends down the road.
The central question remains: How are other schools turning it around so quickly but not us?
no there isnt....didnt you say similar this year...you need to be realistic of the limitations of what we have. RU is still not able to take the steps to move out of the bottom 4...do you realize all the schools we would have to leapfrog...even Nebby has improved as they are a bit sketchy for getting to the NCAA tourney. Need to be honest about expectations
I agree with you. Coming into the year, RU had less talent than every school in the league. Right now we ahead of Illinois and I think tied with Iowa now in the standings. We will finish in the bottom3. All of these schools are ahead of RU in the cycle, thats why RU has to move up in stages, if they can get out of the basement this year, thats great, if they can move out of the bottom 4 next year thats another step, if year 4 of Pike they can make the BIT thats the next step and contend for NCAA in year 5 and 6...thats the path. Its very hard to move up in this league. Look at Penn State who has way more talent than RU....look at Indiana struggling and Northwestern was primed for a NCAA run and they have struggled. Ohio State sucked last year but they had way more talent than RU...coaching change..boom now they are top 4 in league. Its about talent and RU is going to need alot more of it and alot more than they are getting next year
All good points. But now that Lynch is gone because of his deviant behavior Minnesota has returned back to earth. I wish we played them now and not when we did. I think we beat them.
Honestly, it's truly an uninformed statement that "others are turning it around quickly".....it just shows fans live in a vacuum and haven't seen Minnesota was never actually at any point last in the conference....OR if they were, it was due to a rash of injuries like 2 years ago when they lost at the RAC in Eddie's last home game and had all of their scholarship guards out or injured.
When you are closer to the NCAA's and fire your head coach, that means a starting point is probably 3 years ahead of where RU starts to rebuild under Pike.....even Chris Collins at Northwestern took over from Bill Carmody a program that was one of two wins away from making the NCAA's, but Northwestern was in certain years 7-11 in the B1G or 8-10....the difference between having a solid foundation of 6 to 7 wins, still means you are in the bottom half of the conference.....RU's ceiling this season against this league would be 6 B1G wins in the conference.
There are going to be fans in a couple of years saying "where did Rutgers come from, they came out of nowhere"....if you read the message boards of Wisconsin and Iowa after RU defeated them, some of their fans were critical of their programs, asking "how can we lose to RU" and others are actually paying attention and noticing the improvements we are showing.
I guess it's all about perspective or really most fan bases are ignorant or just don't follow the competition.....anyone with a clue, knows Nebraska is in YEAR 5 and had 4 upperclassmen and 3 more off the bench, by way of recruiting, transfers in (FOUR in total), to cobble together their roster and it's still not likely to make the NCAA's, unless they take it up a level from where they are today.
The fact that Nebraska is on a somewhat level playing field in Year 5, shows how difficult the rebuild is....and if Thiam knocks down a couple of 3's, they don't get this road win.
There really isn't any way to phrase how stark the difference in talent/size and quickness is between a NIT or bubble Nebraska team is vs what Pike is working with. We have an excellent staff that is covering a lot of limitations, but there is no "free lunch", where your starting point is truly 14th and not 9th or 10th like Minnesota or others.
Bac, a lot of these games are right there. I don't believe I ever said this year was a tournament team.
Rutgers ongoing problems concern lack of offensive talent and execution of basic fundamentals.The team during the summer really needs a boot camp approach where the players practice drills on passing ,ball movement,one on one dribble drives to the basket,finishing around the basket with a player guarding ,pick and roll without fouling,etc.These basic drills hopefully will be more successfully implemented with more talented players on the squad.Some fans might say that such drills already occur at Rutgers but they certainly aren't executed with any level of high success.
Nebraska is having a surprising season and credit needs to be given to the coaching staff and the additions to the team who are difference makers on the court.Watching them play against Rutgers fans saw execution of the fundamentals I am talking about which is what is needed to win on the road.
I'm hoping there will be at least one more recruit brought in next season who has the talent level to be of immediate help on the court.Starting positions must be earned in practice.
Nebraska is having a surprising season and credit needs to be given to the coaching staff and the additions to the team who are difference makers on the court.Watching them play against Rutgers fans saw execution of the fundamentals I am talking about which is what is needed to win on the road.
I'm hoping there will be at least one more recruit brought in next season who has the talent level to be of immediate help on the court.Starting positions must be earned in practice.
If Sanders stays and we add a graduate transfer, we can be better next year. Otherwise, it's going to be tough going. The B1G will not be worse next year, and neither will our OOC schedule.
We seem to be relying on Mathiis and Kiss to imrpove our shooting, but neither has a great outside shot.
We also are in great need of depth. Williams, who isn't even starting, goes down, and we look like a different team. We have three players with "walk-on" ability playing meaningful minutes, and two of these players are on scholarship.
We seem to be relying on Mathiis and Kiss to imrpove our shooting, but neither has a great outside shot.
We also are in great need of depth. Williams, who isn't even starting, goes down, and we look like a different team. We have three players with "walk-on" ability playing meaningful minutes, and two of these players are on scholarship.
If true, then oof! I don't see Sanders ever being a good shooter for us. And I'm concerned that, while Geo will be a better shooter than Sanders, he'll never be anything close to a sharpshooter.
This highlights how hard it can be to recruit scorers and shooters . It's fantasy to believe that the coach can just go get players who don't run or aren't as quick but can shoot the lights out. It's fantasy because everyone's after those guys too. Everyone wants shooters with a not-too-deep 3-point line.
Recruiting is as hard fought game, just as hard fought as the actual games. Coaches know it's their life blood. Pike's gonna have to start winning those battles. I think/hope he will. But like Bac is saying, it won't happen quickly. He'll need a few more years.
I actually think with Hobbs, Knight and the new facility Pike has the best chance of any recent HC to win those recruiting battles. He has to get it done because I don't think those assistants are here forever.
I guess that's true, and somebody has to be last place, but there's no excuse for Rutgers being so far behind the rest of the pack.
Why do you think there is no excuse...RU is 2-7 & I would argue all 4 programs likely to finish 10th through 13th out of Minnesota, Illinois Wisconsin and Iowa all have more talent either in their upperclassmen or in 2017 & 18 recruiting....
Do you watch any games of our opponents starters and say "that player couldn't find minutes on our roster last year or this year"??.....
Players that earned significant minutes by default last year are doing so now or transferred out like Diallo, Laurent and Nigel Johnson....and Johnson plays about 18-20 minutes at Virginia who is at worse, a top 10 program this year (UVA is currently sitting at the top of the ACC and 2nd in the country AND Nigel still plays himself off the court with somewhat selfish play).
I know it's tough but it takes skill that's coming next year to provide depth and overall talent....I know people are downplaying the small differences that adding a player or two can help, but the same players downplayed Geo Baker and he's learning on the job and I would like to think showing himself to be able to play.
That doesn't mean every recruit is all B1G in their 1st season but we have fans that want a 1 and done player, or the player is no good or can't find a role. That's simply not the case....Kiss in spots will help as will Mathis, as will Carter etc...
No excuse?
Really?
Did you see the Eddie years, AD messes, etc?
Actually, I think it is remarkable Pike has us in as many games as he does.
He just needs more options to work with, and we get that next year.
Then it’s an incremental improvement in recruiting.
This is very true. I expect all the pre-season predictions to have us between 12-14 again next year, even if Sanders stays. However, we should be a little more fun to watch. The offense on this team is just abominable but I do think we are headed in the right direction. If we had played a normal OOC schedule, it would have looked like we had made no progress at all.
To me our top 3 needs are:
1. shooters
2. depth
3. more shooters
I really thought he was a good coach until this season. He should be doing more with the talent he has there. They seem to be a defensive mess.
I think football and hoops differ greatly-----you need 35-45 good players to be a solid football program. Guys usually take a year or two to develop physically.
Lots more 18-19 year old guys ready to play D-1 basketball even in a league like the Big Ten. Maybe not as starters but as contributors with the occasional Ace kid.
Lots more 18-19 year old guys ready to play D-1 basketball even in a league like the Big Ten. Maybe not as starters but as contributors with the occasional Ace kid.
the extenstion was in November before the disasterous season began...their fans must be going nuts
Took over the program when it was a train wreck from Lickliter.
Has 3 NCAA and 3 NIT appearances in the last 7 years.
I agree the extension was unwarranted as many are but if he did that at Rutgers he would get the same type deal.
Has 3 NCAA and 3 NIT appearances in the last 7 years.
I agree the extension was unwarranted as many are but if he did that at Rutgers he would get the same type deal.
expecations are different at Iowa....last year was not a good year for them but they did have their moments...no NCAA tourney, this year they were expected to build off of last year and they fell flat on their faces and their defense is brutal...thats 2 years without a NCAA tourney....I would assume because of the extension Fran will now get next year but does anyone think that he will turn them into a NCAA team next season..thus he will be gone after next year, cant go 3 years without a NCAA tourney there
perhaps in the Lloyd Christmas so you're telling me there's a chance sense of it. But there isn't really any realistic chance for Rutgers to get an at large bid to the tourney next season. You'd need every returning player to take a massive leap forward and several newcomers to make big impacts.
While Pikiell is improving things, they still aren't that close. Currently #128 in KenPom and 2-7 in a down year for the Big Ten. Realistically have to go 10-8 or better in conference play to get an at large bid. Only 2 conference schools in last 4 years have gotten in at 9-9 and 1 10-8 team got left out.
To me something like a 7-11 record in conference play is a reasonable hope next season if things progress for Rutgers and then maybe push for .500+ the following season.
