OT. COVID antibodies from blood results.

[RUfinally2008]

I'm sure I'll get the answer on Monday, but I'm wondering who had similar results. Went for yearly, normal blood work and asked to add the test for Covid antibodies, it's covered by my Federal BC/BS. I'm 8 months out from my 2 Pfizer Covid vaccines and am on the fence about what looks like never ending boosters. The readings came back as positive with a >2500. During the visit my doctor said since there's no official government guidelines set for what's considered a safe level of protection,{ shocking, lol}, they use after office research any level above 100 should wait for the booster no matter how many months since your second shot. From what I've read online, it's hard to tell with a reading that high if it's from the vaccines or if at some point I had Covid 19 and didn't know it. It seems for Pfizer, the average number of antibodies 3 weeks out after the 2nd shot is around 1400-1800. The office I go to was hit hard at the very beginning, February 2020,helping out at the mega testing center at PNC in Holmdel and 25 staff and doctors contracted Covid, shutting down the building for 3 months. It's the reason I guess, they have done so much research of they're own on this.

 

[RUfinally2008]

I found an article about a former co-worker, interesting.https://nypost.com/2020/07/31/after-fighting-covid-19-new-jersey-man-has-super-number-of-antibodies/

 

[retired711]

The test results don't seem to mean very much, and so this kind of testing is not recommended. https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices...xt=If you have a positive,as a false positive.

 

[RUfinally2008]

The test results don't seem to mean very much, and so this kind of testing is not recommended. https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-covid-19-and-medical-devices/antibody-serology-testing-covid-19-information-patients-and-consumers#:~:text=If you have a positive,as a false positive.

This $hit is so crazy, leading to confusion on so many levels. I personally can't find fault with anyone being hesitant on all things, mandates and the like when it comes to COVID and what the government is telling us to do. Sickening.

 

[ashokan]

This $hit is so crazy, leading to confusion on so many levels. I personally can't find fault with anyone being hesitant on all things, mandates and the like when it comes to COVID and what the government is telling us to do. Sickening.

If you had to get the bug, Omicron is not the worst you could do. Alec Baldwin has killed more people.
If a lot of people got Omicron it might help the herd situation without a lot of damage

The shots are built around the spike protein but the virus has other features. Natural immunity can better address those The shots incite mutation and allow chance to spread ("leaky vaccine"). Coronaviruses have known antibody issues that made vaccines a problem. Its nuts that they want to treat toddlers with this stuff. History will not be kind to this episode. Thankfully the courts have been putting the genie back in the bottle. "Mandates" have not be based on actual laws

WHO says Omicron detected in 38 countries, no deaths reported

WHO spokesperson says vaccine makers ‘commendable’ for planning to adjust COVID-19 jabs to protect against Omicron.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[T2Kplus20]

I'm sure I'll get the answer on Monday, but I'm wondering who had similar results. Went for yearly, normal blood work and asked to add the test for Covid antibodies, it's covered by my Federal BC/BS. I'm 8 months out from my 2 Pfizer Covid vaccines and am on the fence about what looks like never ending boosters. The readings came back as positive with a >2500. During the visit my doctor said since there's no official government guidelines set for what's considered a safe level of protection,{ shocking, lol}, they use after office research any level above 100 should wait for the booster no matter how many months since your second shot. From what I've read online, it's hard to tell with a reading that high if it's from the vaccines or if at some point I had Covid 19 and didn't know it. It seems for Pfizer, the average number of antibodies 3 weeks out after the 2nd shot is around 1400-1800. The office I go to was hit hard at the very beginning, February 2020,helping out at the mega testing center at PNC in Holmdel and 25 staff and doctors contracted Covid, shutting down the building for 3 months. It's the reason I guess, they have done so much research of they're own on this.

Probably a good idea to get this booster. The Pfizer vaccine seems best as a 3-shot regimen (like the Hep B vaccine). It may become an annual shot like the flu, but we don't know yet. As COVID-19 mutants, it will likely become less severe.

 

[RU848789]

We're now seeing a plethora of additional data showing that the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID vaccine "booster" restores the somewhat waning immunity/protection seen 5-6+ months after the first two doses were given to beyond the original protection levels for the 2-dose sequence. At this point, it's becoming pretty clear that being "boosted" should now simply be called "fully vaccinated."

While it was not a given that protection from the original 2-dose regimen would wane, many thought it might, since that is the case for a host of other viral diseases (tetanus, diptheria, polio, etc.) and vaccines which feature a delayed additional dose many months after the initial dose(s), so having a "booster" is commonplace in virology.

If we weren't in the middle of a pandemic that has now killed over 800K Americans (all but 20K unvaccinated) and over 5.2MM worldwide, we would have had the time to learn in longer clinical trials that a 3rd dose was needed, but we know now. That's how science works when new data become available. The other good

Specifically, over the last 2 days studies were published showing that: i) in Israel, deaths were cut by 90% for those (over 800K in the study) over 50 who were 3-dose recipients vs. 2-dose recipients (who are still relatively well-protected from severe illness/death vs. the unvaccinated, but not as well as they were) and ii) the CDC published data from Pfizer's randomized clincal trial of 3 shots vs 2 shots + placebo showing 95% efficacy for preventing symptomatic infections across all age 16+ groups (N=10,125).

In addition, very recent data also came out today from Pfizer from a laboratory study showing that serum samples taken from patients with 3 doses of their vaccine restores full immune system neutralizing antibody levels (to what was seen with 2 doses in previous variants) to the omicron variant, which is also good news. I think it's safe to presume that we'll see similar data for Moderna's mRNA vaccine (and perhaps even better, since theirs "waned' less after 6 months vs. Pfizer's).

Finally, early indications are the immune response suffers less waning than the 2-dose regimen, which is not surprising, given how the immune system often works in a prime-boost scenario as is used in many other vaccines. So it's quite possible the boosters will maintain high levels of neutralizing antibodies and T-cells/B-cells for up to a year or more. However, we simply don't know that to be true yet and we don't know whether omicron will have any impact on that. We should have 1-year data on people who were in the booster trials within several months. Hopefully we won't need annual boosters, but we might and to me given the extraordinary safety profile of these vaccines, that should be a non-issue for most.

First link below is to Dr. Eric Topol's (one of the most respected medical experts in the world, from Scripps) Twitter feed discussing all of these studies, briefly, and the next 4 links are to the relevant source scientific information/papers associated with the work discussed above .

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468941307166953475
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115624
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slides.../02-COVID-Perez-508.pdf
https://www.pfizer.com/.../pfizer-and-biontech-provide...
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03592-2

 

[T2Kplus20]

We're now seeing a plethora of additional data showing that the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID vaccine "booster" restores the somewhat waning immunity/protection seen 5-6+ months after the first two doses were given to beyond the original protection levels for the 2-dose sequence. At this point, it's becoming pretty clear that being "boosted" should now simply be called "fully vaccinated."

While it was not a given that protection from the original 2-dose regimen would wane, many thought it might, since that is the case for a host of other viral diseases (tetanus, diptheria, polio, etc.) and vaccines which feature a delayed additional dose many months after the initial dose(s), so having a "booster" is commonplace in virology.

If we weren't in the middle of a pandemic that has now killed over 800K Americans (all but 20K unvaccinated) and over 5.2MM worldwide, we would have had the time to learn in longer clinical trials that a 3rd dose was needed, but we know now. That's how science works when new data become available. The other good

Specifically, over the last 2 days studies were published showing that: i) in Israel, deaths were cut by 90% for those (over 800K in the study) over 50 who were 3-dose recipients vs. 2-dose recipients (who are still relatively well-protected from severe illness/death vs. the unvaccinated, but not as well as they were) and ii) the CDC published data from Pfizer's randomized clincal trial of 3 shots vs 2 shots + placebo showing 95% efficacy for preventing symptomatic infections across all age 16+ groups (N=10,125).

In addition, very recent data also came out today from Pfizer from a laboratory study showing that serum samples taken from patients with 3 doses of their vaccine restores full immune system neutralizing antibody levels (to what was seen with 2 doses in previous variants) to the omicron variant, which is also good news. I think it's safe to presume that we'll see similar data for Moderna's mRNA vaccine (and perhaps even better, since theirs "waned' less after 6 months vs. Pfizer's).

Finally, early indications are the immune response suffers less waning than the 2-dose regimen, which is not surprising, given how the immune system often works in a prime-boost scenario as is used in many other vaccines. So it's quite possible the boosters will maintain high levels of neutralizing antibodies and T-cells/B-cells for up to a year or more. However, we simply don't know that to be true yet and we don't know whether omicron will have any impact on that. We should have 1-year data on people who were in the booster trials within several months. Hopefully we won't need annual boosters, but we might and to me given the extraordinary safety profile of these vaccines, that should be a non-issue for most.

First link below is to Dr. Eric Topol's (one of the most respected medical experts in the world, from Scripps) Twitter feed discussing all of these studies, briefly, and the next 4 links are to the relevant source scientific information/papers associated with the work discussed above .

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468941307166953475
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115624
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slides.../02-COVID-Perez-508.pdf
https://www.pfizer.com/.../pfizer-and-biontech-provide...
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03592-2

I think I essentially said the same thing.....just via 95% less words.
😜

 

[RU848789]

If you had to get the bug, Omicron is not the worst you could do. Alec Baldwin has killed more people.
If a lot of people got Omicron it might help the herd situation without a lot of damage

The shots are built around the spike protein but the virus has other features. Natural immunity can better address those The shots incite mutation and allow chance to spread ("leaky vaccine"). Coronaviruses have known antibody issues that made vaccines a problem. Its nuts that they want to treat toddlers with this stuff. History will not be kind to this episode. Thankfully the courts have been putting the genie back in the bottle. "Mandates" have not be based on actual laws

WHO says Omicron detected in 38 countries, no deaths reported

WHO spokesperson says vaccine makers ‘commendable’ for planning to adjust COVID-19 jabs to protect against Omicron.

www.aljazeera.com

Zero significant vaccine safety issues, so far, with the 5MM children who have already been dosed, as per the CDC, so there's no reason to suspect there will be issues for vaccines in toddlers - we give vaccines with slightly greater side effects to all infants/toddlers for a host of other viruses, most of which are significantly less dangerous and deadly than COVID, so I see no reason why we won't soon have the vaccines available for those under 5, as the clinical trials are well underway.

Also, we've only known about omicron for a few weeks and it usually takes 3-4 weeks for cases to proceed from infection to death, so it's a very flawed conclusion to say/imply that omicron will not kill people at the same rate per infection as delta or the original strain (which have similar death rates). We can hope that's the case and it may actually be, but it's way too early to reach that conclusion. And if omicron is 2X more infectious than even delta (which is 2-3X more transmissible than the original strain), even if it's not more deadly per infection, it will be more deadly, in aggregate, simply because more people will get infected, especially since we're seeing more reinfections of previously infected/recovered patients with omicron.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-d...yocarditis-million-children/story?id=81659883

https://www.reuters.com/world/afric...s-hospital-data-amid-omicron-wave-2021-12-10/

 

[RU848789]

I think I essentially said the same thing.....just via 95% less words.
😜

True, but some people like to read and truly understand the science, rather than simply taking someone's word for something, so I include the details and the links to the source science, so people can become informed on their own.

 

[RUScrew85]

I'm sure I'll get the answer on Monday, but I'm wondering who had similar results. Went for yearly, normal blood work and asked to add the test for Covid antibodies, it's covered by my Federal BC/BS. I'm 8 months out from my 2 Pfizer Covid vaccines and am on the fence about what looks like never ending boosters. The readings came back as positive with a >2500. During the visit my doctor said since there's no official government guidelines set for what's considered a safe level of protection,{ shocking, lol}, they use after office research any level above 100 should wait for the booster no matter how many months since your second shot. From what I've read online, it's hard to tell with a reading that high if it's from the vaccines or if at some point I had Covid 19 and didn't know it. It seems for Pfizer, the average number of antibodies 3 weeks out after the 2nd shot is around 1400-1800. The office I go to was hit hard at the very beginning, February 2020,helping out at the mega testing center at PNC in Holmdel and 25 staff and doctors contracted Covid, shutting down the building for 3 months. It's the reason I guess, they have done so much research of they're own on this.

Problem is no one setting the rules cares if you are immune due to results from shots or previous infections. Strange that.

 

[RUScrew85]

I think I essentially said the same thing.....just via 95% less words.
😜

Look at meeeee! LOL

 

[bac2therac]

Bombshell Document Dump on Pfizer Vaccine Data - Global Research

What is contained in Pfizer's confidential report is detailed evidence on the impacts of the "vaccine" on mortality and morbidity. This data which emanates from the Horse's Mouth can be used to confront as well formulate legal procedures against Big Pharma, the governments, the WHO and the media.

www.globalresearch.ca

 

[retired711]

Problem is no one setting the rules cares if you are immune due to results from shots or previous infections. Strange that.

That's because not all immunity is created equal. Immunity from vaccination is superior to immunity from having had Covid. In any case, everybody should get vaccinated (including boosters for those already vaccinated) no matter whether they've had Covid or not. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...rotect-better-than-infection-induced-immunity

 

[bac2therac]

 

[RC1978]

Bombshell Document Dump on Pfizer Vaccine Data - Global Research

What is contained in Pfizer's confidential report is detailed evidence on the impacts of the "vaccine" on mortality and morbidity. This data which emanates from the Horse's Mouth can be used to confront as well formulate legal procedures against Big Pharma, the governments, the WHO and the media.

www.globalresearch.ca

SMH

• Globalresearch.ca, a conspiracy theories website operated by Michel Chossudovsky's Centre for Research on Globalization

Michel Chossudovsky (born 1946) is a Canadian economist, author and conspiracy theorist.[1] He is professor emeritus of economics at the University of Ottawa[2][3] and the president and director of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), which runs the website globalresearch.ca, founded in 2001, which publishes falsehoods and conspiracy theories.[4][5][6] Chossudovsky has promoted conspiracy theories about 9/11.[7][8][11][12]

In 2017, the Centre for Research on Globalization was accused by information warfare specialists at NATO’s Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence (STRATCOM) of playing a key role in the spread of pro-Russian propaganda.[13] A report by the U.S. State Department in August 2020 accused the website of being a proxy for the Russian disinformation campaign.[14]


But keep on posting pure BS

 

[DJ Spanky]

Immunity from vaccination is superior to immunity from having had Covid.

Is it? I've heard both. And has anyone done a definitive study confirming one way or another?

 

[oldtimer67]

Have there been any studies on "crossover boosters", i.e. getting a Pfizer booster after 2 doses of Moderna, or vice versa?

 

[Knight Shift]

SMH

• Globalresearch.ca, a conspiracy theories website operated by Michel Chossudovsky's Centre for Research on Globalization

Michel Chossudovsky (born 1946) is a Canadian economist, author and conspiracy theorist.[1] He is professor emeritus of economics at the University of Ottawa[2][3] and the president and director of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), which runs the website globalresearch.ca, founded in 2001, which publishes falsehoods and conspiracy theories.[4][5][6] Chossudovsky has promoted conspiracy theories about 9/11.[7][8][11][12]

In 2017, the Centre for Research on Globalization was accused by information warfare specialists at NATO’s Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence (STRATCOM) of playing a key role in the spread of pro-Russian propaganda.[13] A report by the U.S. State Department in August 2020 accused the website of being a proxy for the Russian disinformation campaign.[14]


But keep on posting pure BS

It can all be so confusing with all of the misinformation out there from pretty much ALL sources and sides.

Have said all along the poor and inconsistent messaging by the government, major news outlets and the pharma companies has not done a lot to build trust and confidence.

A very strange move by Pfizer to ask for and get 55 years on FOIA requests. Last I checked, Reuters might still be a reputable source.

Wait what? FDA wants 55 years to process FOIA request over vaccine data

Freedom of Information Act requests are rarely speedy, but when a group of scientists asked the federal government to share the data it relied upon in licensing Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine, the response went beyond typical bureaucratic foot-dragging.

www.reuters.com

 

[RU848789]

SMH

• Globalresearch.ca, a conspiracy theories website operated by Michel Chossudovsky's Centre for Research on Globalization

Michel Chossudovsky (born 1946) is a Canadian economist, author and conspiracy theorist.[1] He is professor emeritus of economics at the University of Ottawa[2][3] and the president and director of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), which runs the website globalresearch.ca, founded in 2001, which publishes falsehoods and conspiracy theories.[4][5][6] Chossudovsky has promoted conspiracy theories about 9/11.[7][8][11][12]

In 2017, the Centre for Research on Globalization was accused by information warfare specialists at NATO’s Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence (STRATCOM) of playing a key role in the spread of pro-Russian propaganda.[13] A report by the U.S. State Department in August 2020 accused the website of being a proxy for the Russian disinformation campaign.[14]


But keep on posting pure BS

Thanks for saving me the typing. You would think people would have learned by now, but no. There is legitimate debate to be had about things like whether previously infected people should be subject to vaccine mandates, for example That's a no, IMO (at least for now), but they should still get vaccinated for their own health, given infected then vaccinated people have "super immunity" with incredibly high levels of immune response and we're seeing waning protection from infections, just as we are for originally fully vaccinated folks. But that drek is the worst kind of fear-mongering and is resulting in people not getting vaccinated and then dying.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

I think I essentially said the same thing.....just via 95% less words.
😜

“End of Message” 😎

 

[RU848789]

Have there been any studies on "crossover boosters", i.e. getting a Pfizer booster after 2 doses of Moderna, or vice versa?

Yes, posted the below post in October - mixing and matching is encouraged now, given that it provides some diversity of immune response. All my COVID stuff is still on TOS if anyone is intereted...

Finally getting data from the NIH "Mix and Match" booster study, where people who had been fully vaccinated with Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna or J&J vaccines received one of the three vaccines (including the original one they got) as a booster. The great news is all of the combinations produced very robust immunological responses, as expected, which may be important as there is some data indicating that vaccine effectiveness might be waning a bit after 6-8 months (especially in stopping infections, but not much waning in stopping severe COVID).

However, even if the waning effectiveness is minor there's literally no downside to getting a booster (no new observed safety effects) and the small upside in improved protection, especially for those over 65 and with comorbities, is worth pursuing at least for those folks, if not everyone (as they're doing in some countries). Will be interesting to see the final results, as the results, so far, are preliminary, and will be interesting to see whether the US recommends any mixing/matching. The two comments that stood out to me were that those who got J&J originally were "boosted" a bit better by an mRNA vaccine over a 2nd J&J dose and that the boosting obtained from Pfizer and Moderna for those who originally got either vaccine was essentially the same.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...hm4_3F1ERUEvf7XvXQuIb13naw6oOnYKF4b1fgq0UW4Kw

 

[fsg2]

Thanks for saving me the typing. You would think people would have learned by now, but no. There is legitimate debate to be had about things like whether previously infected people should be subject to vaccine mandates, for example That's a no, IMO (at least for now), but they should still get vaccinated for their own health, given infected then vaccinated people have "super immunity" with incredibly high levels of immune response and we're seeing waning protection from infections, just as we are for originally fully vaccinated folks. But that drek is the worst kind of fear-mongering and is resulting in people not getting vaccinated and then dying.

I think the CE crew has learned by now ...and chosen to actively and wilfully distribute misleading and straight-up misinformation.

 

[RUSwagger]

Is it? I've heard both. And has anyone done a definitive study confirming one way or another?

I am sure that Pfizer will fund the study that will come out (any day now) making it crystal clear that shots are unnecessary if you have natural immunity.

 

[RU848789]

If people like short messages, here's the bottom line on COVID vaccines. There are almost 800K unvaccinated Americans dead from COVID vs. 20K vaccinated and zero deaths caused by the vaccines (and only extremely rare serious side effects on the order of ten per 1MM vaccinated). The vaccines also significantly reduce transmissions of the virus to others (they don't stop it, but reduce it).

As Dr. Topol said months ago, the COVID vaccines, "will go down in history as one of science and medical research's greatest achievements. Perhaps the most impressive."

 

[Knight Shift]

Yes, posted the below post in October - mixing and matching is encouraged now, given that it provides some diversity of immune response. All my COVID stuff is still on TOS if anyone is intereted...

Finally getting data from the NIH "Mix and Match" booster study, where people who had been fully vaccinated with Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna or J&J vaccines received one of the three vaccines (including the original one they got) as a booster. The great news is all of the combinations produced very robust immunological responses, as expected, which may be important as there is some data indicating that vaccine effectiveness might be waning a bit after 6-8 months (especially in stopping infections, but not much waning in stopping severe COVID).

However, even if the waning effectiveness is minor there's literally no downside to getting a booster (no new observed safety effects) and the small upside in improved protection, especially for those over 65 and with comorbities, is worth pursuing at least for those folks, if not everyone (as they're doing in some countries). Will be interesting to see the final results, as the results, so far, are preliminary, and will be interesting to see whether the US recommends any mixing/matching. The two comments that stood out to me were that those who got J&J originally were "boosted" a bit better by an mRNA vaccine over a 2nd J&J dose and that the boosting obtained from Pfizer and Moderna for those who originally got either vaccine was essentially the same.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...hm4_3F1ERUEvf7XvXQuIb13naw6oOnYKF4b1fgq0UW4Kw

The article below says that the J&J vaccine may have gotten an early bad rap, and studies are showing that while the initial immunity is not as high as the mRNA vaccines, it may prove to be more durable.

What J&J Can Still Teach Us

A vaccine’s value isn’t just in its peak performance.

www.theatlantic.com

Any thought on someone who had the Moderna vaccine getting a J&J booster? Does having both vaxes offer any better or different immunity?

Ad26.COV2.S or BNT162b2 Boosting of BNT162b2 Vaccinated Individuals

Previous studies have reported that a third dose of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer) COVID-19 vaccine increased antibody titers and protective efficacy. Here we compare humoral and cellular immune responses in 65 individuals who were vaccinated with the BNT162b2 vaccine and were boosted after at least 6...

www.medrxiv.org

On natural immunity, there are a lot of respected MDs, PhDs and epidemiologists saying similar things about truly following science and not pushing narratives.

 

[retired711]

Is it? I've heard both. And has anyone done a definitive study confirming one way or another?

See the link I posted. If you google "is natural immunity better than vaccine immunity," you will come up with more reports, including from Johns Hopkins. In any case, it's not that important. Because all immunity wanes, people should get vaccinated no matter whether they've had Covid or not.

 

[RUBOB72]

I think people have learned over the past 2 years and have already made up there minds. How many still have not had at least 1 shot? As an early 2 dose Pfizer vaccine test dummy and understanding quite well the vaccine would wane as do flu vaccines. Had my entire VACCINATED family contract Delta . So primary doctor and others advise because of antibodies we wait 5-6 months. Then we get the over hyped mis- info on omicron which causes more skepticism. Here’s the point : within another 6-8 months the chances of a 4th booster and another variant is almost assured. If not by normal viral evolution but by manipulated pharmaceuticals.Try getting the booster is not as easy as just walking in and saying ” ok I’m here.” The system is still skewed incorrectly. I can’t believe there are that many over age 55 lining up . As far as children . The larger majority will not vaccinate the 12 and under without verified proof. Waiting 55 years to get the full information is the issue for many , many parents. . Finally not too long ago it was verboten to discuss this topic on the Rutgers sports board. Suspensions were handed out like chocolates in a candy store. Seems to prove some other things which became contentious conversations were used just to adhere to ideological views. You are either going to allow it or just move it to the CE board. Who is ready for booster # 4-5 and beyond?

 

[RUSwagger]

See the link I posted. If you google "is natural immunity better than vaccine immunity," you will come up with more reports, including from Johns Hopkins. In any case, it's not that important. Because all immunity wanes, people should get vaccinated no matter whether they've had Covid or not.

And why is that? Do you not catch and/or spread the virus if you are vaccinated?

Also, assuming all the numbers are accurate, less than 2% of all 50+ million people infected with the virus have died. And I think if you delved into the numbers, the overwhelming majority had comorbidities and/or underlying health conditions.

There are people who should probably make the risk/benefit decision to get vaccinated. No argument. But the fact of the matter is that these are experimental drugs and the misinformation, lack of transparency, and chilling of debate is extremely concerning in the context of the backdrop of mandates.

 

[RU848789]

The article below says that the J&J vaccine may have gotten an early bad rap, and studies are showing that while the initial immunity is not as high as the mRNA vaccines, it may prove to be more durable.

What J&J Can Still Teach Us

A vaccine’s value isn’t just in its peak performance.

www.theatlantic.com

Any thought on someone who had the Moderna vaccine getting a J&J booster? Does having both vaxes offer any better or different immunity?

Ad26.COV2.S or BNT162b2 Boosting of BNT162b2 Vaccinated Individuals

Previous studies have reported that a third dose of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer) COVID-19 vaccine increased antibody titers and protective efficacy. Here we compare humoral and cellular immune responses in 65 individuals who were vaccinated with the BNT162b2 vaccine and were boosted after at least 6...

www.medrxiv.org

View embedded media

On natural immunity, there are a lot of respected MDs, PhDs and epidemiologists saying similar things about truly following science and not pushing narratives.

View embedded media

See my mix and match post above - J&J was included. My guess is we'll see waning immunity from all of the vaccines, without boosters, and from "natural" infection, when all is said and done, as we're seeing in numerous studies so far (and similar waning is seen for many other viral diseases which require delayed boosters). It's why most experts I've read are recommending boosters for "fully vaccinated" people and at least one vaccination shot for infected/recovered patients who were never vaccinated.

 

[vkj91]

We're now seeing a plethora of additional data showing that the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID vaccine "booster" restores the somewhat waning immunity/protection seen 5-6+ months after the first two doses were given to beyond the original protection levels for the 2-dose sequence. At this point, it's becoming pretty clear that being "boosted" should now simply be called "fully vaccinated."

While it was not a given that protection from the original 2-dose regimen would wane, many thought it might, since that is the case for a host of other viral diseases (tetanus, diptheria, polio, etc.) and vaccines which feature a delayed additional dose many months after the initial dose(s), so having a "booster" is commonplace in virology.

If we weren't in the middle of a pandemic that has now killed over 800K Americans (all but 20K unvaccinated) and over 5.2MM worldwide, we would have had the time to learn in longer clinical trials that a 3rd dose was needed, but we know now. That's how science works when new data become available. The other good

Specifically, over the last 2 days studies were published showing that: i) in Israel, deaths were cut by 90% for those (over 800K in the study) over 50 who were 3-dose recipients vs. 2-dose recipients (who are still relatively well-protected from severe illness/death vs. the unvaccinated, but not as well as they were) and ii) the CDC published data from Pfizer's randomized clincal trial of 3 shots vs 2 shots + placebo showing 95% efficacy for preventing symptomatic infections across all age 16+ groups (N=10,125).

In addition, very recent data also came out today from Pfizer from a laboratory study showing that serum samples taken from patients with 3 doses of their vaccine restores full immune system neutralizing antibody levels (to what was seen with 2 doses in previous variants) to the omicron variant, which is also good news. I think it's safe to presume that we'll see similar data for Moderna's mRNA vaccine (and perhaps even better, since theirs "waned' less after 6 months vs. Pfizer's).

Finally, early indications are the immune response suffers less waning than the 2-dose regimen, which is not surprising, given how the immune system often works in a prime-boost scenario as is used in many other vaccines. So it's quite possible the boosters will maintain high levels of neutralizing antibodies and T-cells/B-cells for up to a year or more. However, we simply don't know that to be true yet and we don't know whether omicron will have any impact on that. We should have 1-year data on people who were in the booster trials within several months. Hopefully we won't need annual boosters, but we might and to me given the extraordinary safety profile of these vaccines, that should be a non-issue for most.

First link below is to Dr. Eric Topol's (one of the most respected medical experts in the world, from Scripps) Twitter feed discussing all of these studies, briefly, and the next 4 links are to the relevant source scientific information/papers associated with the work discussed above .

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1468941307166953475
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115624
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slides.../02-COVID-Perez-508.pdf
https://www.pfizer.com/.../pfizer-and-biontech-provide...
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03592-2

I’m old enough to remember reading your posts that said the same thing about the second dose. I look forward to reading the same thing when you tell us we need our 4th dose.

 

[retired711]

And why is that? Do you not catch and/or spread the vaccine if you are vaccinated?

Also, assuming all the numbers are accurate, less than 2% of all 50+ million people infected with the virus have died. And I think if you delved into the numbers, the overwhelming majority had comorbidities and/or underlying health conditions.

There are people who should probably make the risk/benefit decision to get vaccinated. No argument. But the fact of the matter is that these are experimental drugs and the misinformation, lack of transparency, and chilling of debate is extremely concerning in the context of the backdrop of mandates.

The probability of catching and spreading covid is *much* less for those who have been vaccinated. https://www.healthline.com/health-n...-risk-of-getting-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated

Two percent (I'll accept that calculation) of a large number is itself a large number. Almost 800,000 people have died in the U.S. alone. There is no evidence of what you say about "the overwhelming majority."

The vaccines have long passed the point of being "experimental." The misinformation is coming from the opponents of vaccination (and of other public health measures, like masking), not from the proponents. People who are not getting vaccinated are needlessly risking their health and the health of others.