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OT: Fun With Fracking!

Oklahoma as we know it, within the context of the human record, has not been seismically active. As I said in a previous post, it sits in the middle of a very large lithospheric plate, or "craton". There is a lot of interpretation in tectonics, but the most recent interpretation of the formation of the North American craton is that it is composed of smaller pieces of lithosphere that came together through collisions in excess of 1.6 billion years ago. These very old plates comprise what is referred to as the "basement rock" of a continent. Here's a picture:

North_america_basement_rocks.png
Nice graphic but what does it say? Are you saying there have been earthquakes there? or there haven't been earthquakes there before these current quakes?
everything im reading in this thread seems to say if there wasn't fracking there would be no earthquakes
 
Nice graphic but what does it say? Are you saying there have been earthquakes there? or there haven't been earthquakes there before these current quakes?
everything im reading in this thread seems to say if there wasn't fracking there would be no earthquakes

I'm saying that there hasn't been any natural seismic activity in the middle of Oklahoma in recorded history. In short, your assumption is correct - if there was no fracking there would be no earthquakes.

And in fairness, it's probably not really accurate to call them "earthquakes", which is really a term used to describe movement of the earth's crust due to natural causes. When there's a large explosion, the ground shakes. When a train rolls by, the ground shakes (at least, very close to the tracks). We don't call these "earthquakes", per se.

The tremors measured in Oklahoma are being localized to about 3-5 km in depth. That's a couple of miles down, about the depth of a deep injection well. An actual earthquake in the "San Andreas Fault" sense of the word would happen between 15 and 30 km down. Earthquakes caused by volcanic activity (such as those that occur in places like Yellowstone Park) generally occur about 10 km down. Earthquakes caused by the separation of mid-ocean ridges happen very deep - anywhere from 50 to several hundred km.
 
It been advised to use this to denote a sarcastic post>>>:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
BTW I was told by the same conservatives that Climate Change is just more liberal propaganda scare tactics. It is normal to be 72° on Christmas in Boston!
:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
I doubt your were told that there is no such thing as climate change. You more likely were told that there is always climate change, that man's activity on this planet is adding slightly to that climate change and that it's really silly to think that any of the suggestions are really going to materially alter it.
 
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It's actually pretty easy to draw the correlation, in this case.

You have a part of the country that is THE most stable, geologically. Not even close.

On top of the stable craton, west of the Mississippi River, are alluvial deposits from the tens of millions of years worth of Rocky Mountain erosion. The Rockies are, in fact, buried up to their hips in their own eroded waste and a cross section of the Great Plains from Colorado to the Mississippi resembles a segment of a cheese wheel, laid on its side - the western border of Nebraska, for example, is 3000' higher than the eastern border.

In the part of Oklahoma in question, the quakes aren't occurring deep in the bedrock, where one would expect fault-related earthquakes - if such a fault were to exist, which it does not, in that part of the country. They are, instead, occurring at shallow depths, in the alluvial deposits, which have no reason to move on their own.

The simple explanation is that the high-pressure injection wells are creating an unnatural lubricity within the alluvial deposits above the bedrock and allowing it to essentially "flow" beneath the surface. This motion is being registered, at the surface, as seismicity.QUOTE] Very impressive.
 
People in Oklahoma get what they vote for.

A governor who moved her daughter's trailer on the grounds of the governor's mansion.

A state attorney general in bed with every big corporation.

A state attorney general who sued Colorado to stop them from selling marijuana, while his own state's residents can't even have clean water and an earthquake free environment.

A state legislature that tried to defund AP history because it would teach about discrimination against Native Americans.

A state that voted for ban on Sharia law, but whose Supreme Court had to order the Ten Commandments off state grounds.

And a state that will vote overwhelmingly for a guy who says wages are too high or a Canadian who wants to reallocate the overwhelming low incomes of Oklahomans to Wall Street.

Sorry to feel bad for them. And they will keep electing people willing to sell their state.
 
You do realize there is a revolving door between government agencies such as the EPA and FDA and the corporations that are poisoning our food, water and environment.

I agree that politics can bias the EPA's judgement. But this report was completed in 2015, so its safe to assume that any bias would conform to the Obama administration's philosophy on the environment, or it would not have been released. BTW, revolving doors do not necessarily preclude integrity of scientists. I worked for a federal agency in D.C. and I know the landscape.
 
I'm saying that there hasn't been any natural seismic activity in the middle of Oklahoma in recorded history. In short, your assumption is correct - if there was no fracking there would be no earthquakes.

And in fairness, it's probably not really accurate to call them "earthquakes", which is really a term used to describe movement of the earth's crust due to natural causes. When there's a large explosion, the ground shakes. When a train rolls by, the ground shakes (at least, very close to the tracks). We don't call these "earthquakes", per se.

The tremors measured in Oklahoma are being localized to about 3-5 km in depth. That's a couple of miles down, about the depth of a deep injection well. An actual earthquake in the "San Andreas Fault" sense of the word would happen between 15 and 30 km down. Earthquakes caused by volcanic activity (such as those that occur in places like Yellowstone Park) generally occur about 10 km down. Earthquakes caused by the separation of mid-ocean ridges happen very deep - anywhere from 50 to several hundred km.
I was curious and looked up some info on Earthquakes in Oklahoma
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/states/oklahoma/history.php
This article shows earthquakes from 1918 to 1969 it doesn't show more data than that. El Reneo and Concho were 2 listed places that seem to be centrally located. So there have been earthquakes in Oklahoma just not in Fariview. However I guess the tremors could have been felt there.
very interesting stuff.
 
There's a difference between a few of extremely isolated events that occur at crustal depth and the activity that's taking place now. It's completely apples and oranges.
 
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And FYI, there have been 8 additional tremors in the Fairview area so far today. They range in magnitude from 2.5 to 4.1 at depths of 3.4 to 5 km.
 
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But you would trade this in an instant to be in the college football playoffs and have a top 2 basketball program! It's good to be a Sooner!!! OSU is not bad either.
 
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There's a difference between a few of extremely isolated events that occur at crustal depth and the activity that's taking place now. It's completely apples and oranges.
you said and I quote "I'm saying that there hasn't been any natural seismic activity in the middle of Oklahoma in recorded history." This is a false statement since there clearly has been seismic activity in the middle of Oklahoma. I don't know why you would state this since you seem to have some knowledge about the earths crust and the depths below it. So I guess its safe to say you are vehemently against Fracking and only put forth info to further your narrative. Which I believe weakens your arguments since now I am skeptical of your info.
I really don't have an opinion on fracking, but both sides are fiercely voicing their opinions.
 
you said and I quote "I'm saying that there hasn't been any natural seismic activity in the middle of Oklahoma in recorded history." This is a false statement since there clearly has been seismic activity in the middle of Oklahoma. I don't know why you would state this since you seem to have some knowledge about the earths crust and the depths below it. So I guess its safe to say you are vehemently against Fracking and only put forth info to further your narrative. Which I believe weakens your arguments since now I am skeptical of your info.
I really don't have an opinion on fracking, but both sides are fiercely voicing their opinions.

No, I said it because nothing noteworthy came to mind.

If you wanted to be 100% accurate, you can go back through the records and find SOME sort of seismic activity, at some point, anywhere.

I could have been more clear if I said "there hasn't been any consistent or noteworthy seismic activity in the middle of Oklahoma in recorded history."

The simple fact of the matter is that you don't go from having 3 earthquakes in a century to 20+ earthquakes a day for reasons related to known natural causes. The earthquake clusters that occur regularly in places like California and Alaska are explicable (tectonics). The earthquake clusters that occur regularly in places like Hawaii and Wyoming / Montana are explicable (volcanism). The earthquake clusters that occur regularly - and recently - in Oklahoma are not attributable to any natural cause. You can be as skeptical as you wish, but that's the facts.
 
No, I said it because nothing noteworthy came to mind.

If you wanted to be 100% accurate, you can go back through the records and find SOME sort of seismic activity, at some point, anywhere.

I could have been more clear if I said "there hasn't been any consistent or noteworthy seismic activity in the middle of Oklahoma in recorded history."

The simple fact of the matter is that you don't go from having 3 earthquakes in a century to 20+ earthquakes a day for reasons related to known natural causes. The earthquake clusters that occur regularly in places like California and Alaska are explicable (tectonics). The earthquake clusters that occur regularly in places like Hawaii and Wyoming / Montana are explicable (volcanism). The earthquake clusters that occur regularly - and recently - in Oklahoma are not attributable to any natural cause. You can be as skeptical as you wish, but that's the facts.
You said: pertaining to seismic activity in the middle of Oklahoma "No, I said it because nothing noteworthy came to mind." No no no were not gonna play that game now, you come off like ya got volumes of knowledge! and then try to explain it away by saying something like that.
Now your showing your ignorance.
You said: I could have been more clear if I said "there hasn't been any consistent or noteworthy seismic activity in the middle of Oklahoma in recorded history."
I would say the USGS has the facts on that.
1377 Earthquakes recorded between 1970 to 5/27/2015 as per the USGS Oklahoma seismicity map
First recorded earthquake in Oklahoma was in Oct 1882!
Earthquakes have been recorded in every decade since 1915!
Largest earthquake recorded 22 miles NNE of Shawnee 5.6 mag Nov 6 2011
most of these would fall in the "middle" of Oklahoma check the USGS yerself don't take my word for it.

You said: And in fairness, it's probably not really accurate to call them "earthquakes",
Again the USGS disagrees with you and calls them earthquakes and or aftershocks.

You said: The tremors measured in Oklahoma are being localized to about 3-5 km in depth
Fairview Oklaohoma fact sheet:
OGS Dr. Jeremy Boak reports,
the shallowest earthquake was 4.03 miles, deepest was 6.11 miles avg. 4.835 miles 8 recorded earthquakes in the fact sheet

You said:
So you're telling me that you know of a reason why earthquake clusters would occur in the absolute middle of the Stable Interior Craton, with no fault zones for 1000 miles, composed of some of the oldest and thickest rock on the planet?
if such a fault were to exist, which it does not, in that part of the country
I gotta hear this one. Please, enlighten us.


The only known surface expression of an active fault occurs in southwestern Oklahoma. The last slip on this fault is estimated to be about 1300 years ago and may have been equivalent to a magnitude 6.5 or 7.0 earthquake. This fault is known as the Meers Fault and is visible from the air as can be seen in the following picture. OGS seismic program

125 miles to fairview from meers
So you sir have no merit with me Since you clearly have an agenda which is against Fracking.
Your information is lacking and spotty with your hyperbole and innuendo., I find it amazing that someone with your "knowledge" would not know that there was a fault line 125 miles from Fairview.

You did say you wanted to be enlightened no? Good day sir, my debate with you is through






 
And for the record, this May 2014 release from the U.S. Geological Survey:

The rate of earthquakes in Oklahoma has increased by about 50 percent since October 2013, significantly increasing the chance for a damaging quake in central Oklahoma.

In a new joint statement by the U.S. Geological Survey and Oklahoma Geological Survey, the agencies reported that 183 earthquakes of magnitude 3.0 or greater occurred in Oklahoma from October 2013 through April 14, 2014. This compares with a long-term average from 1978 to 2008 of only two magnitude 3.0 or larger earthquakes per year. As a result of the increased number of small and moderate shocks, the likelihood of future, damaging earthquakes has increased for central and north-central Oklahoma.

“We hope that this new advisory of increased hazard will become a crucial consideration in earthquake preparedness for residents, schools and businesses in the central Oklahoma area,” said Dr. Bill Leith, USGS Senior Science Advisor for Earthquakes and Geologic Hazards. “Building owners and government officials should have a special concern for older, unreinforced brick structures, which are vulnerable to serious damage during sufficient shaking.”

The joint statement indicates that a likely contributing factor to the increase in earthquakes is wastewater disposal by injection into deep geologic formations. The water injection can increase underground pressures, lubricate faults and cause earthquakes – a process known as injection-induced seismicity. Much of this wastewater is a byproduct of oil and gas production and is routinely disposed of by injection into wells specifically designed and approved for this purpose. The recent earthquake rate changes are not due to typical, random fluctuations in natural seismicity rates.

Oklahoma’s heightened earthquake activity since 2009 includes 20 magnitude 4.0 to 4.8 quakes, plus one of the two largest recorded earthquakes in Oklahoma’s history – a magnitude 5.6 earthquake that occurred near Prague on Nov. 5, 2011, which damaged a number of homes and the historic Benedictine Hall at St. Gregory's University in Shawnee.

As a result of the increased seismicity, the Oklahoma Geological Survey has increased the number of monitoring stations and now operates a seismograph network of 15 permanent stations and 17 temporary stations. Both agencies are actively involved in research to determine the cause of the increased earthquake rate and to quantify the increased hazard in central Oklahoma.
 
People in Oklahoma get what they vote for.

A governor who moved her daughter's trailer on the grounds of the governor's mansion.

A state attorney general in bed with every big corporation.

A state attorney general who sued Colorado to stop them from selling marijuana, while his own state's residents can't even have clean water and an earthquake free environment.

A state legislature that tried to defund AP history because it would teach about discrimination against Native Americans.

A state that voted for ban on Sharia law, but whose Supreme Court had to order the Ten Commandments off state grounds.

And a state that will vote overwhelmingly for a guy who says wages are too high or a Canadian who wants to reallocate the overwhelming low incomes of Oklahomans to Wall Street.

Sorry to feel bad for them. And they will keep electing people willing to sell their state.
Good points. The same could be said of Texas. Part and parcel for your overwhelmingly Red states.
 
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I agree that politics can bias the EPA's judgement. But this report was completed in 2015, so its safe to assume that any bias would conform to the Obama administration's philosophy on the environment, or it would not have been released. BTW, revolving doors do not necessarily preclude integrity of scientists. I worked for a federal agency in D.C. and I know the landscape.
Well I hope you are right but even with best intentions things have a way of going wrong, I'm sure those that pushed for offshore drilling including the scientists and engineers thought the BP well in the Gulf was safe.
I do follow quite of few activists groups on Facebook including environmental groups and over the past year or so I have gotten many articles on all kinds of spills and leaks, explosions etc.
Even if on paper all the rules and regulations seem to be in place they are often neglected in one way or another often times at the state or local level.

For example

Don't Drink the Water: West Virginia After the Chemical Spill
After a toxic disaster contaminated their water, the people of Charleston, West Virginia, are wondering if what's coming out of the taps is harmful. They're not getting any good answers

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...st-virginia-after-the-chemical-spill-20140312
 
Train derails and explodes in Baltimore - RAW FOOTAGE HD

"This has been the third significant rail crash in the United States in the past two weeks. Investigators are currently working to figure out was caused this derailment."


 
Yah these libtards want to take us back to the stone ages but oil is in every piece of plastic you touch = are healed by = go into a hospital and let me know what medical device you see is not made of plastic?

We would be living in the stone age if not for oil = shame on these non progressive people..lol
 
Yah these libtards want to take us back to the stone ages but oil is in every piece of plastic you touch = are healed by = go into a hospital and let me know what medical device you see is not made of plastic?

We would be living in the stone age if not for oil = shame on these non progressive people..lol
HEMP Bio-DeGradable Plastics - End World Pollution 4EVER !!!

 
Ever pay an electric bill?

Coal is like 3 cents a kilowatt hr
Solar without the Government subsidies is like $10 dollars an hour
Wind is like $12 an hour.

It's not even close - Obama spent Billions = maybe Trillions on Wind/Solar and it still remain less than 5% of Electricity Generation in this country...lol

It's a joke but I wont argue cause all these Wind/Solar Subsidies are ending in 2016 and then lets see what your electric bill is . lmao

 
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and just to show i dont give a crap but it is so true - my girlfriend comes in its like the lighting of the Christmas tree in Rock Center when im happy in the dark. lol

Think the best scene = Walking Dead = Hit tit


 
As I said in another thread, its pretty sad that people get their information from comedians and others with no commitment to truth or integrity, to form their opinions. And then they are allowed to vote!
 
As I said in another thread, its pretty sad that people get their information from comedians and others with no commitment to truth or integrity, to form their opinions. And then they are allowed to vote!

Just curious: do you have any sort of a vested interest in the energy industry?
 
No more than every other person in our country. But thanks for asking.

Thanks. So then your absolute certainty regarding the 100 % safety and ecological soundness of hydraulic fracturing is fully grounded in unerring scientific fact, not opinion that reflects professional or investment interest. Got it.
 
N
Thanks. So then your absolute certainty regarding the 100 % safety and ecological soundness of hydraulic fracturing is fully grounded in unerring scientific fact, not opinion that reflects professional or investment interest. Got it.
Not at all. Everything we do involves some risk. If problems with fracking have been associated with spills or poor drilling practices, you fix those problems but you don't throw out the entire program. I just expect smart decision making, and rational risk assessment. That's all.
 
N
Thanks. So then your absolute certainty regarding the 100 % safety and ecological soundness of hydraulic fracturing is fully grounded in unerring scientific fact, not opinion that reflects professional or investment interest. Got it.
Not at all. Everything we do involves some risk. If problems with fracking have been associated with spills or poor drilling practices, you fix those problems but you don't throw out the entire program. I just expect smart decision making, and rational risk assessment. That's all.
 
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