OT: Gavin Griffiths

[RedTeam1994]

I know the Gavin obsession will live long on this board - even though I personally like to forget about those that left us.

However - imho - whether he continues to be a dud or turns into a stud won’t really say much about RU/ Pike

He fell on his face and underperformed (compared to expectations) last year even though Pike gave him AMPLE opportunity. - anyone who argues to the contrary just has an anti-pike agenda . The kid was a flop (and I was a big supporter- but it is what it is)

With that said, there remains a reasonable possibility that he could develop into a VERY good player in time (particularly on the offensive end). I would not be shocked one bit if he’s an offensive stud in a year or two.

He wasn’t willing to develop here. Honestly, even though I remained a big gavin fan through last year, I think it’s better for him (and Rutgers!!!) that he is gone. Nebraska is a better fit. In hind sight, his utter lack of defense made him a REALLY bad fit here. And I don’t really see how he would fit in this years team - seems Hayes and martini replace his 3 potential BUT play much better D, etc (and serve their roles FAR more effectively) .

In summary: I wish the kid well but don’t look forward to the multi-year obsession on this board (or the inevitable fight that WILL ensue about whether pike should have fought to keep him, blah blah blah).

Whether he does well down the line says nothing to me about whether he should have stayed here (in hindsight he was a bad fit, would not have had a defined role on THIS year teams, has been replaced with effective role players that better serve this years team).

Lastly this program needed to put the Gavin-drama behind it. I just wish this board would as well

 

[shields]

Agree less I have to read about this kid.

 

[Rhuarc]

Cliff used exactly as he should be. Zero classic post up touches. All shots are dunks or within 6 inches of the rim.

They had him moving around down low to be in position to attack the rim with dunks when the ball is dumped off to him. He looked good!

Impressive coaching staff at Alabama. I wonder if Cliff knew that posting up on the block was not going to happen.

Alabama's version of Cliff would be perfect for Harper and Bailey. Bummer.

This is speculation on my part, but I would imagine when he decided to return for his final Rutgers season it was contingent on him getting ample opportunity to run offense through him to help is NBA potential. That combined with a lack of offensive skill around him pretty much doomed his year at RU.

 

[Knight Shift]

I know the Gavin obsession will live long on this board - even though I personally like to forget about those that left us.

However - imho - whether he continues to be a dud or turns into a stud won’t really say much about RU/ Pike

He fell on his face and underperformed (compared to expectations) last year even though Pike gave him AMPLE opportunity. - anyone who argues to the contrary just has an anti-pike agenda . The kid was a flop (and I was a big supporter- but it is what it is)

With that said, there remains a reasonable possibility that he could develop into a VERY good player in time (particularly on the offensive end). I would not be shocked one bit if he’s an offensive stud in a year or two.

He wasn’t willing to develop here. Honestly, even though I remained a big gavin fan through last year, I think it’s better for him (and Rutgers!!!) that he is gone. Nebraska is a better fit. In hind sight, his utter lack of defense made him a REALLY bad fit here. And I don’t really see how he would fit in this years team - seems Hayes and martini replace his 3 potential BUT play much better D, etc (and serve their roles FAR more effectively) .

In summary: I wish the kid well but don’t look forward to the multi-year obsession on this board (or the inevitable fight that WILL ensue about whether pike should have fought to keep him, blah blah blah).

Whether he does well down the line says nothing to me about whether he should have stayed here (in hindsight he was a bad fit, would not have had a defined role on THIS year teams, has been replaced with effective role players that better serve this years team).

Lastly this program needed to put the Gavin-drama behind it. I just wish this board would as well

RU athletics is not a school for Gavins to succeed. They may find success elsewhere, and that is a good thing.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Mag only had 2 points in 13 minutes in BYU’s opener. I think he was 9th in minutes played.

How was that one missed

 

[Mr_Twister]

Garden City Community College’s Antonio Chol led the Broncs with 21 points and 12 rebounds … in a losing effort.

MCC men knock off No. 19-rated team in home opener

The McCook Community College men's basketball team topped No. 19 Garden City Tuesday at the home-opener. The Indians were able to overcome an 11-point first deficit with 14-43 left to play, fought back to take a 64-63 lead with 6:39 left, got up 72-63 at the 3:17 mark then battled down the...

www.mccookgazette.com

 

[needmorecowbell]

He has a bunch of posts trashing Dylan, including one saying he'd rather have 5th year Cliff than one and done Dylan. Questions Pike's use of analytics. Total loser.

Everything that guy ever said was either incorrect or bullsh!t. Total loser.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Garden City Community College’s Antonio Chol led the Broncs with 21 points and 12 rebounds … in a losing effort.

MCC men knock off No. 19-rated team in home opener

The McCook Community College men's basketball team topped No. 19 Garden City Tuesday at the home-opener. The Indians were able to overcome an 11-point first deficit with 14-43 left to play, fought back to take a 64-63 lead with 6:39 left, got up 72-63 at the 3:17 mark then battled down the...

www.mccookgazette.com

You win

 

[Mr Magoo]

Derek Simpson had 6 points, 2 anssists, and 4 turnovers in 28 minutes in St. Joe’s opener. Seems like other than Cliff, some inauspicious debuts from those who left.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

I hope Derek succeeds. And Chol was never a fit. Gavin and Mag - whatever. Grass ain’t always greener.

 

[Mr Magoo]

I hope Derek succeeds. And Chol was never a fit. Gavin and Mag - whatever. Grass ain’t always greener.

I agree. Simpson tried hard, was in over his head, and was “guided” out, Chol was a just a miss, and I believe Gavin and Mag think they are better than they actually are.

 

[Mr_Twister]

The gigantic whiff was allowing Cliff to slip away. We should have given him a Bobby Bonilla deal.

 

[lion1983]

The gigantic whiff was allowing Cliff to slip away. We should have given him a Bobby Bonilla deal.

I believe this was covered above in this thread: If your choice (because of only "x" amount of NIL), was Omoruyi OR Acuff, Derkack and Hayes ... and maybe even Martini ... would you actually have signed off on that? This is not monopoly money, there is a zero sum game, with choices to make.

Option #1 (with $1m +, likely $1.4 m to Omoruyi):

Starters: Omoruyi, Harper, Bailey, Williams, Davis (or Grant at PF) ... Bench: Ogbole, Sommerville, Grant (or Davis as back-up PG), Dortch ... random, no-name fill-ins from the portal, with no credentials or skills. No reasonable back-up guards or WF's, no shooting on the bench, Grant and Dortch, not-yet-ready for Big Ten as the frontcourt back-ups, after Sommerville ... True, Ogbole is the #3 Center.

Option#2 - Current Roster:

Starters: Ogbole (maybe Sommerville at some point), Martini, Bailey, Harper, Williams ... Bench: Davis, Somerville (or Ogbole, later), Acuff, Derkack, Hayes ... and deep bench of Grant and Dortch.

Option #1 may have the better starting line-up, but it has ZERO bench, ZILCH, and ZERO back-up guards or useful WF's. RU would basically have starters and maybe ONE reserve (Sommerville) ... a 6-man team.

Option #2 has a hole in the post, but goes 9-10 deep with legitimate WF's, Guards, and either Sommerville (now) or Ogbole (later) as the reserve Center.

Those are your 2 options ... NOT the fantasyland of Omoruyi added to the current roster.

 

[Mr_Twister]

I believe this was covered above in this thread: If your choice (because of only "x" amount of NIL), was Omoruyi OR Acuff, Derkack and Hayes ... and maybe even Martini ... would you actually have signed off on that? This is not monopoly money, there is a zero sum game, with choices to make.

Option #1 (with $1m +, likely $1.4 m to Omoruyi):

Starters: Omoruyi, Harper, Bailey, Williams, Davis (or Grant at PF) ... Bench: Ogbole, Sommerville, Grant (or Davis as back-up PG), Dortch ... random, no-name fill-ins from the portal, with no credentials or skills. No reasonable back-up guards or WF's, no shooting on the bench, Grant and Dortch, not-yet-ready for Big Ten as the frontcourt back-ups, after Sommerville ... True, Ogbole is the #3 Center.

Option#2 - Current Roster:

Starters: Ogbole (maybe Sommerville at some point), Martini, Bailey, Harper, Williams ... Bench: Davis, Somerville (or Ogbole, later), Acuff, Derkack, Hayes ... and deep bench of Grant and Dortch.

Option #1 may have the better starting line-up, but it has ZERO bench, ZILCH, and ZERO back-up guards or useful WF's. RU would basically have starters and maybe ONE reserve (Sommerville) ... a 6-man team.

Option #2 has a hole in the post, but goes 9-10 deep with legitimate WF's, Guards, and either Sommerville (now) or Ogbole (later) as the reserve Center.

Those are your 2 options ... NOT the fantasyland of Omoruyi added to the current roster.

How about the AD and fund raisers do a better job at finding revenue. We are midway between NYC, Wall Street, and Philadelphia. How can a school like Arkansas have ties to Walmart and Tyson Foods? Our folks have to do a much better job making these types of connections.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I believe this was covered above in this thread: If your choice (because of only "x" amount of NIL), was Omoruyi OR Acuff, Derkack and Hayes ... and maybe even Martini ... would you actually have signed off on that? This is not monopoly money, there is a zero sum game, with choices to make.

Option #1 (with $1m +, likely $1.4 m to Omoruyi):

Starters: Omoruyi, Harper, Bailey, Williams, Davis (or Grant at PF) ... Bench: Ogbole, Sommerville, Grant (or Davis as back-up PG), Dortch ... random, no-name fill-ins from the portal, with no credentials or skills. No reasonable back-up guards or WF's, no shooting on the bench, Grant and Dortch, not-yet-ready for Big Ten as the frontcourt back-ups, after Sommerville ... True, Ogbole is the #3 Center.

Option#2 - Current Roster:

Starters: Ogbole (maybe Sommerville at some point), Martini, Bailey, Harper, Williams ... Bench: Davis, Somerville (or Ogbole, later), Acuff, Derkack, Hayes ... and deep bench of Grant and Dortch.

Option #1 may have the better starting line-up, but it has ZERO bench, ZILCH, and ZERO back-up guards or useful WF's. RU would basically have starters and maybe ONE reserve (Sommerville) ... a 6-man team.

Option #2 has a hole in the post, but goes 9-10 deep with legitimate WF's, Guards, and either Sommerville (now) or Ogbole (later) as the reserve Center.

Those are your 2 options ... NOT the fantasyland of Omoruyi added to the current roster.

I think I am going Option #1 rolling the dice that the replacements that you get for free aren't that much of a downgrade from our transfers.

One thing I can consider....only human nature with a 5th year things get stale. I can see more of a going through the motions.

 

[RUInsanity]

How about the AD and fund raisers do a better job at finding revenue. We are midway between NYC, Wall Street, and Philadelphia. How can a school like Arkansas have ties to Walmart and Tyson Foods? Our folks have to do a much better job making these types of connections.

Isnt it against the rules for the AD to diectly raise money for NIL? Also, there are fundraisers out there for this with RU which anyone can contribute to.

Why is it that people like to spend other people's money to fix issues? Since you are complaining about this....did you donate to NIL personally to help retain Cliff?

 

[PaKnight]

I believe this was covered above in this thread: If your choice (because of only "x" amount of NIL), was Omoruyi OR Acuff, Derkack and Hayes ... and maybe even Martini ... would you actually have signed off on that? This is not monopoly money, there is a zero sum game, with choices to make.

Option #1 (with $1m +, likely $1.4 m to Omoruyi):

Starters: Omoruyi, Harper, Bailey, Williams, Davis (or Grant at PF) ... Bench: Ogbole, Sommerville, Grant (or Davis as back-up PG), Dortch ... random, no-name fill-ins from the portal, with no credentials or skills. No reasonable back-up guards or WF's, no shooting on the bench, Grant and Dortch, not-yet-ready for Big Ten as the frontcourt back-ups, after Sommerville ... True, Ogbole is the #3 Center.

Option#2 - Current Roster:

Starters: Ogbole (maybe Sommerville at some point), Martini, Bailey, Harper, Williams ... Bench: Davis, Somerville (or Ogbole, later), Acuff, Derkack, Hayes ... and deep bench of Grant and Dortch.

Option #1 may have the better starting line-up, but it has ZERO bench, ZILCH, and ZERO back-up guards or useful WF's. RU would basically have starters and maybe ONE reserve (Sommerville) ... a 6-man team.

Option #2 has a hole in the post, but goes 9-10 deep with legitimate WF's, Guards, and either Sommerville (now) or Ogbole (later) as the reserve Center.

Those are your 2 options ... NOT the fantasyland of Omoruyi added to the current roster.

Not sure we even had the million or so for Cliff for Option #1.

 

[lion1983]

How about the AD and fund raisers do a better job at finding revenue. We are midway between NYC, Wall Street, and Philadelphia. How can a school like Arkansas have ties to Walmart and Tyson Foods? Our folks have to do a much better job making these types of connections.

While true, that does not answer the issue at hand, since the fundraising was not there for Omoruyi ... remember, the money was not there for Bailey or Harper either, but rather because of the exceptional nature of their upside and status, special, one-time NIL$$ stepped in - non-transferable to other players.

To PaKnight - very well might be true. I am certain RU did not have the $1.4 m it was rumored Alabama offered Omoruyi ... I have no idea whether they had even $1 m, nor if Omoruyi would have accepted just $1 m if Alabama offered $1.4 m - heck there were rumors Omoruyi turned down $1.8 m from another program to go with Alabama. Did Acuff, Martini, Hayes and Derkack cost $1 m total? I have no idea - maybe not. Remember, RU also had to spend NIL, to retain Williams - and maybe Davis ... Ogbole probably cots little. And we have no idea whether or how much NIL had to be devoted to the other 3 frosh, especially Sommerville.

To GreeneRice FIG: Totally disagree with the choice of Option#1. There is NO WAY near zero NIL gets you players from the portal who even have a chance to contribute at a Big Ten level. The BEST case might be players at the level of Jalen Miller (and regardless of what people say, Davis is WAY, WAY better than Miller), or low level starters (i.e. 4th or 5th best players on those teams) from weak low-major teams, or even bench players from low mid-major teams. In other words, completely useless players.

It is true that we still do not know how much the transfers will and can contribute. But I think we can say with some surety, at least, that Derkack is athletic enough to have a chance to contribute, that Hayes can shoot well enough to contribute, and that Martini and Acuff offer SOMETHING of value. After all, though Acuff was on a terrible team, he was the best player on that team. Derkack played for a top 3-4 team in one of the weakest leagues, but was their best player, the conference player of the year and the conference defensive player of the year - in other words the best player form that league. Hayes was a starter, and the 3rd best scorer for a decent team that played within a mid-level Mid-Major league (a top heavy league with Gonzaga and St, Mary's). Martini was maybe only the 3rd or 4th best player on his team, and Ivy league team - but a glue player at least for a very good team with proven 3-point skills.

Without available NIL because it would have been devoted entirely to Omoruyi, RU would not have been able to get ANY players who would have had the potential to contribute as much as even the WORST of the transfers RU did get. You'd be talking about a team of 5 starters and 1-2 reserves.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I can't say I know how things work. Don't know the market value of players

 

[DC8690]

I think I am going Option #1 rolling the dice that the replacements that you get for free aren't that much of a downgrade from our transfers.

One thing I can consider....only human nature with a 5th year things get stale. I can see more of a going through the motions.

I think he was going through the motions last year.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think he was going through the motions last year.

at times yes. We still will miss him a TON once real games are played

 

[Mr_Twister]

Isnt it against the rules for the AD to diectly raise money for NIL? Also, there are fundraisers out there for this with RU which anyone can contribute to.

Why is it that people like to spend other people's money to fix issues? Since you are complaining about this....did you donate to NIL personally to help retain Cliff?

I have donated to Rutgers University for over 30 consecutive years, and I am not an alumnus. I have not specifically donated to NIL.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

I think I am going Option #1 rolling the dice that the replacements that you get for free aren't that much of a downgrade from our transfers.

One thing I can consider....only human nature with a 5th year things get stale. I can see more of a going through the motions.

He was going through the motions last year because he was very disappointed that there was no NBA interest in him.

 

[RUInsanity]

I have donated to Rutgers University for over 30 consecutive years, and I am not an alumnus. I have not specifically donated to NIL.

That's great! Unfortunately in this new age, it's the NIL donations that seem to make the most impact in transfers and retention.

 

[RedTeam1994]

The gigantic whiff was allowing Cliff to slip away. We should have given him a Bobby Bonilla deal.

OMFG!!!!!

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Watched 3 defensive possessions for alabama. All 3 cliff got toasted

 

[Mr_Twister]

That's great! Unfortunately in this new age, it's the NIL donations that seem to make the most impact in transfers and retention.

The pay-for-play revenue has to come from B1G Network and corporate engagements. With years of mediocrity and irrelevance it’s insanity to think that Rutgers can catch up to the established programs by depending on support from its fan base. NIL as it exists distances the “haves” from the “have nots”. Unless NIL is capped, the downward spiral will continue. As things stand, we are doomed to “participant” status, not “serious competitor”.

 

[Usbcbowler]

I know the Gavin obsession will live long on this board - even though I personally like to forget about those that left us.

However - imho - whether he continues to be a dud or turns into a stud won’t really say much about RU/ Pike

He fell on his face and underperformed (compared to expectations) last year even though Pike gave him AMPLE opportunity. - anyone who argues to the contrary just has an anti-pike agenda . The kid was a flop (and I was a big supporter- but it is what it is)

With that said, there remains a reasonable possibility that he could develop into a VERY good player in time (particularly on the offensive end). I would not be shocked one bit if he’s an offensive stud in a year or two.

He wasn’t willing to develop here. Honestly, even though I remained a big gavin fan through last year, I think it’s better for him (and Rutgers!!!) that he is gone. Nebraska is a better fit. In hind sight, his utter lack of defense made him a REALLY bad fit here. And I don’t really see how he would fit in this years team - seems Hayes and martini replace his 3 potential BUT play much better D, etc (and serve their roles FAR more effectively) .

In summary: I wish the kid well but don’t look forward to the multi-year obsession on this board (or the inevitable fight that WILL ensue about whether pike should have fought to keep him, blah blah blah).

Whether he does well down the line says nothing to me about whether he should have stayed here (in hindsight he was a bad fit, would not have had a defined role on THIS year teams, has been replaced with effective role players that better serve this years team).

Lastly this program needed to put the Gavin-drama behind it. I just wish this board would as well

Well maybe if you didn’t post about him the board wouldn’t be reminded of him. Just busting chops

 

[mjjoyce51]

I believe this was covered above in this thread: If your choice (because of only "x" amount of NIL), was Omoruyi OR Acuff, Derkack and Hayes ... and maybe even Martini ... would you actually have signed off on that? This is not monopoly money, there is a zero sum game, with choices to make.

Option #1 (with $1m +, likely $1.4 m to Omoruyi):

Starters: Omoruyi, Harper, Bailey, Williams, Davis (or Grant at PF) ... Bench: Ogbole, Sommerville, Grant (or Davis as back-up PG), Dortch ... random, no-name fill-ins from the portal, with no credentials or skills. No reasonable back-up guards or WF's, no shooting on the bench, Grant and Dortch, not-yet-ready for Big Ten as the frontcourt back-ups, after Sommerville ... True, Ogbole is the #3 Center.

Option#2 - Current Roster:

Starters: Ogbole (maybe Sommerville at some point), Martini, Bailey, Harper, Williams ... Bench: Davis, Somerville (or Ogbole, later), Acuff, Derkack, Hayes ... and deep bench of Grant and Dortch.

Option #1 may have the better starting line-up, but it has ZERO bench, ZILCH, and ZERO back-up guards or useful WF's. RU would basically have starters and maybe ONE reserve (Sommerville) ... a 6-man team.

Option #2 has a hole in the post, but goes 9-10 deep with legitimate WF's, Guards, and either Sommerville (now) or Ogbole (later) as the reserve Center.

Those are your 2 options ... NOT the fantasyland of Omoruyi added to the current roster.

The NIL for all the 2024 transfers probably aren’t even 1/4 of what Cliff got. The more likely option is removing Ace or Dylan and keeping Cliff. Honestly all those Transfers and one of Ace or Dylan probably equals what Cliff got.

 

[lion1983]

The NIL for all the 2024 transfers probably aren’t even 1/4 of what Cliff got. The more likely option is removing Ace or Dylan and keeping Cliff. Honestly all those Transfers and one of Ace or Dylan probably equals what Cliff got.

That may or may not be true - none of us know what Harper or Bailey got in NIL.

BUT there is an important caveat: Harper and Bailey's NIL $$ did NOT come out of the Rutgers normally dedicated NIL pot that Pikiell and his staff had available - it was outside money, available ONLY for use for Harper and Bailey ... at least that is what we have been led to understand.

That means you can't say it was either Bailey and Harper and the portal transfers, OR keeping Omoruyi and ONE OF Bailey OR Harper ... the $$ for Bailey and Harper were NOT fungible/transferable for other uses, and therefore NOT available for Omoruyi.

 

[Rutgers25]

Mag with 4 minutes last night. Amazing how out of touch he was with his value prop. He’s a Pike created player with little value to most other teams

 

[biochemist01]

Yup. I honestly think it may have contributed to why he left. It wasn’t our fault but we didn’t have the right guys to use him that way and it hurt his draft status.

Cliff is not getting drafted.

 

[biochemist01]

He left for the money, not that there is anything wrong with that, we do have the right guys this year. I don’t think it has anything to do with his draft status, he is just limited offensively.

He also put in his 4 years at RU and graduated. It was time for his next chapter and likely only big pay day.

 

[biochemist01]

Yeah, a couple of us said it before last year. Mulcahy leaving would have a huge effect on Cliff, he was the only one remaining that could get him the ball in the right spots.

Cam was good at feeding Cliff too.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Mag with 4 minutes last night. Amazing how out of touch he was with his value prop. He’s a Pike created player with little value to most other teams

Exactly. Perhaps he’ll fake an injury soon.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Cliff is not getting drafted.

His best shot at getting drafted was two years ago and it’s decreased since then. He’s obviously two years older now and still without a shot outside of a dunk.

 

[biochemist01]

Garden City Community College’s Antonio Chol led the Broncs with 21 points and 12 rebounds … in a losing effort.

MCC men knock off No. 19-rated team in home opener

The McCook Community College men's basketball team topped No. 19 Garden City Tuesday at the home-opener. The Indians were able to overcome an 11-point first deficit with 14-43 left to play, fought back to take a 64-63 lead with 6:39 left, got up 72-63 at the 3:17 mark then battled down the...

www.mccookgazette.com

What happened at Howard? That's where he transferred to first.

 

[biochemist01]

How about the AD and fund raisers do a better job at finding revenue. We are midway between NYC, Wall Street, and Philadelphia. How can a school like Arkansas have ties to Walmart and Tyson Foods? Our folks have to do a much better job making these types of connections.

The AD was busy "managing" the gymnastics team. The man only has so much energy.

 

[RedTeam1994]

Well maybe if you didn’t post about him the board wouldn’t be reminded of him. Just busting chops

Um yeah

I didn’t start the thread

 

[rubaseball78]

How about the AD and fund raisers do a better job at finding revenue. We are midway between NYC, Wall Street, and Philadelphia. How can a school like Arkansas have ties to Walmart and Tyson Foods? Our folks have to do a much better job making these types of connections.

FYI Walmart headquarters is in Arkansas.