OT: Millennial employment
- Thread starter DontTedonMe
- Start date
Meh, if employers want college to be only job training, then they should pay for it.
Not at all. I've hired many liberal arts majors. I've found that they have the ability to think critically and communicate well. That said, if an art history major expects to make a living with a career in art history, he will probably be disappointed.
Agreed. Though, I do have a friend who has made a pretty decent living working as a historical interpreter/museum guide/manager as a history major. Not getting rich, but doing what he loves. (and not quite art history)
Never ending millenial woe is me excuse maker.
Now we can't go to a CC beciase we might not be able to find a way there? Sorry, very few CC's in this state aren't accessible via bus. If they aren't maybe they can download an UBER app on their 600$ IPHONE.
Yes, all the credits might not transfer but if you take real classes most will and they are still cheaper credits on your way to a degree.
Yes, your salary will Plateu at some point without a Masters. However, you dot have to get it by your 25th birthday. Maybe work for a company that pays. Maybe go when you can actually afford it without loans.
Yup a rail or bus pass costs money. Still cheaper than rent, electric, Cable, Internet etc etc. plus, you make it like only the kids who live at home Need to use public transportation to get to work.
I know lots of doctors and lawyers. I don't know many poor ones....weren't your recently bragging(again) about your 6 figure salary?
I will agree with you about property costs but that is an issue for lots of folks including my generation.
The real take away is that plenty of people gave real life solutions to keep the cost of tuition and living expenses down. Not lie in the sky ideas but solutions they've actually utilized. But no...excuses for why those things won't work.
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i was a liberal arts major...and know many who are as well. i'd consider myself and my liberal arts major friends to be pretty successful in our careers. job skills are typically learned on the job, not in school. first thing i tell my new grad hires? forget everything you learned in college, we're going to teach you how the real world does things. the primary thing that liberal arts will teach you? critical thinking and a broader world view. i find it easier to relate to my clients on a personal level since I actually know something about a lot of things, not just accounting or whatever.
Here we go again.
The obsession that the right wing has with people who they determine to be poor and cell phones is mind blowing. Verizon, which is the most popular carrier in NJ, has Iphones free quite often with promotions. Not only that, but you basically need a phone to get a job. Who sends out letters in 2016 or applies through a classified ad? Goes to show again how out of touch you are.
Given the loan situation today they would be 50 before they could apply. Few companies pay. Even the state only kicks in a small percentage.
It's not much cheaper. You need a car or PT. Neither is cheap. In much of NJ, you need both.
Unlike you, I am incapable of analyzing societal events outside of the bubble of my life. For example, if people don't join the lower paid rungs of lawyers, like the ones who perform simple closings or divorces, that's bad for the middle class, nevermind that legal services is desperate for help and those attorneys make a pittance. It is bad for all of us if less people become doctors because of the debt load. Much worse for you than me, but that doesn't mean I don't care or am incapable of analysis.
The real solution is to join much of the Western world and abolish tuition at public colleges, which is well within what the country can afford. We don't even have a Congress that can agree on banning terrorists from getting guns but that doesn't make it the reality. Telling people you don't know to get a loan, or study this or that, is totally untenable.
Oregon is sort of doing this, except it will be through salary. These are the kinds of things that happen when legislatures do their jobs:
Pay It Forward, as fleshed out by a work group over many months of work, to allow students to attend college tuition-free, then repay a tiny percentage of their after-college earnings over the next 20 years into a pool that would fund other students' tuition.
http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2014/09/oregons_tuition-free_pay_it_fo_2.html
yes, typically you must give some kind of signal that you are being sarcastic, as in -p-. Views are so varied on the board that one could believe that there really is someone who thinks liberal arts education should be abolished. I am glad to say that from the first, I did recognize that you were being sarcastic, but I don't blame others for concluding to the contrary.
When the boomers go to retire and make wills or get legal services (in NJ free to those over 70 or 75 for certain things) they will discover that it will not be easy or cheap to do so. It's not just lawyers, either. It's becoming an issue for doctors now.
The wage information does not tell the story of higher COL in areas where there are jobs. NYC, SF, Austin, LA, DC are loaded with transplants. Parts of NJ near to the city are too. Data already suggests that this is effecting the state and that it is become more urban, for example. Here in NJ, we have some insulation from issues the rest of the country has faced. Small towns in other parts of the US are emptying, and people who becomes successful are not coming back. To use the lawyer example, it doesn't behoove someone with six figure debt to make 50k a year to be a small town lawyer- and those people who don't leave still need services, and won't get them.
Millenials are getting married later. I don't think the costs associated with that on top of the cost of property, debt, and education that are higher than before can be written off.
@Upstream attributes many of these issues to the recession. Maybe he is right, but some of the these things are going to ripple and some of them don't seem to be changing. Perhaps it's good that people get married later. It's certainly good that we take more vacations. That helps the economy.
But in 25 years from the first IBR entrant date, when the IRS begins to send tax bills for the written off debt, we will know. If more people don't buy homes, the economy will not pick back up. If people default on loan debt, same thing. If we start losing people in high-debt professions, we will know. I think there is a lot of evidence on that last one already. We will see if people turn delays in having children to not having them or having less. There are pluses and minuses to that too.
Let's see in a year if things are different. At the end of the day, I don't think the millenial generation will ever convince the boomers of anything until the pinch rises to them. They already don't like it when millenials have to job hop and leave them high and dry. If things don't change, they can't sell their suburban homes, they can't get medical care or legal services...they may change their mind. Hopefully they don't have to.
All of that and the best you could do was talk about the cost of the IPhone.
Just to claify, some lawyers choose to go into fields that don't pay well and that's whose fault exactly?
Son ow you want free college in addition to unlimited vacation days. Do we have to go through the whole Canada University exercise again? First it isn't free and second if you grew up in Canada you wouldn't be an attorney because you wouldn't have gotten into school. How come you aren't concerned with less people becoming doctors due to the ACA? Yea, it's going to happen because once all insurance companies start reimbursing at Medicare rates it won't be worth going into medicine. Do you think Canada has a shortage of doctors because people aren't
Smart enough?
Did I mention Canada? No. You did, because your crutch is what you "know" which is a loosely defined term that encompasses your life experiences merged with right wing bias and devoid of actual data. Germany has free tuition, that's just one. You tried to say McGill cost more before, that was proven wrong, so I don't even know why you bring that up. You are arguing with yourself.
Also you struggle with basic English. Did I say it was anyone's fault? Here is a newsflash for you, we still need people in low paid professions. There are essential societal functions that have to be performed.
Again, you struggle with personalizing every single argument because that is all you know. Where did I say everyone has to have unlimited vacation? I guess where I spoke about Canada. Somewhere in the space in between your ears. That is what my employer chooses, and it helps them retain employees. I didn't say it has to be mandated.
I'm not concerned with "less people becoming doctors due to the ACA" for the exact same reason I'm unconcerned with voter fraud or what bathroom people pee in or a border wall, because I have a functioning brain that separates facts from right wing talking points. You don't even need college for that, even though the actual reason right wingers hate college is the fact that the more degrees people have the more likely they are to be liberal, and well, there are only so many straight white Christian men in this country and if more are lost to the dirge of book learnin' and meeting those with differing view points, just who in Congress will stand up for the poor terrorists unable to buy guns?
Like most deluded talking points that you glean from Faux News, there is no basis in reality for your point. Less people are becoming doctors because they cannot handle the debt load. Like so many other professions. Find a link, go ahead, I'm sure conservapedia pr Newsmax has something that blames Obama. Or, get ready for the facts. I know they won't get in, but let's try it:
CONCLUSIONS High educational debt deters graduates of public medical schools from choosing primary care, but does not appear to influence private school graduates in the same way. Students from relatively lower income families are more strongly influenced by debt. Reducing debt of selected medical students may be effective in promoting a larger primary care physician workforce.
http://www.annfammed.org/content/12/6/542.full
Oh in Canada....lol...there's too many doctors...
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/10/10/unemployed-doctors-canada_n_4074976.html
Now you can read but I eagerly await the standard vkj response: Personal insult, Canada, Obama, Canada, personal insult, tangent, tangent, right wing talking point, you said something (that other poster never said), I I I my experience, Canada, Obama, liberals say this, personal insult, tangent.
You didn't say in a thread just last week your bias gives you unlimited vacation because "it's the right thing to do"? Are we supposed to forget what you say from thread to thread and just make believe you don't post same nonsense everywhere? I tried to say McGill cost more than what? Maybe you could finish your thought? Being a lawyer is not low paid profession. If a guy chooses to do home closings that's on him. If we end up being short lawyers for meaning les crap like that I'm sure there is a quick fix. Glad to see you got your right wing rant in. Carry on.
OK English please. It is the right thing to do but that doesn't mean I think it has to be enforced in one way or another. My point was that crappy employers get their comeupance. That is capitalism, yet you and some your ilk believe that employees should just cope with poor pay or vacations and not leave and be thankful, which is not capitalism at all. From a policy perspective, if it were up to me, we should join every other Western country and mandate at least 2 weeks vacation, 10 days sick time, and paid paternity and maternity leave, because not everyone has the luxury of moving jobs.
You could just try not to make things up. You previously tried to say it cost more than NJ state schools, which it doesn't, but again not the point, this is another tangent of yours. I said we should have tuition free public college. I didn't mention Canada and why would I, that is not their policy. In fact it was actually an American policy in many places, many of the beneficiaries of that policy just want to forget about that. The fact is, again, that would not benefit me, I went to college a while ago. I just have common sense enough to realize we are headed for a serious problem with all the debt.
You're either dense or deliberately myopic or somewhere in there, because again, we need primary care doctors, we need small town lawyers, the policies in place are not working, and trying to blame studying art history or private colleges is typical tactic rather than address the problems. This is why your party is heading for collapse. No ideas, tons of name calling and scapegoating.
Again with the broad brush. Never complain about employees taking better jobs or moving up the ladder, all of my employees get at least three weeks vacation(4 is the norm), just gave one 12 weeks maternity. Free state university does nothing for small town lawyers or primary care docs. Unless of course you are having unlimited enrollment in these schools.
The entire doctor premise is wrong. Go tell me which medical schools are not fully enrolled. Tell me what percentage of our doctors are born out of country. Tell me what is the unemployment rate for doctors.
Our medical schools do not accept enough doctors, and there's plenty of applicants left out or getting degrees out of country (Caribbean).
If you have the choice of being a general doctor or a specialist (which pays more)... Most people will be specialists. Capitalism handles this, as there are less primary care doctors, they would become full and raise there rates. I usually can find a doctor with good availability for a checkup.
Now lawyers are much different. Attendance rates have dropped as the salary has not kept up with historical standard of living. As we have less lawyers rates will go up or simpler tasks like legal documents (wills, divorces, real estate closings) will move away from lawyers or be automated. For instance in many parts of the country the title company handles residential closing and lawyers are often not involved.
Our medical schools do not accept enough doctors, and there's plenty of applicants left out or getting degrees out of country (Caribbean).
If you have the choice of being a general doctor or a specialist (which pays more)... Most people will be specialists. Capitalism handles this, as there are less primary care doctors, they would become full and raise there rates. I usually can find a doctor with good availability for a checkup.
Now lawyers are much different. Attendance rates have dropped as the salary has not kept up with historical standard of living. As we have less lawyers rates will go up or simpler tasks like legal documents (wills, divorces, real estate closings) will move away from lawyers or be automated. For instance in many parts of the country the title company handles residential closing and lawyers are often not involved.
Again, not about you. What you do does not help people who get no vacation, sick leave, or maternity.
With less debt, more people will be willing to do lower-paid jobs. It has nothing do with admission standards. It is wrong to say that there are not enough "smart" people. Many of these jobs you don't have to be a genius. The debt is a big issue. And BTW, I have no issue with a system that moves people along on different paths based on their intelligence from a younger age. That still doesn't change that even public college and public grad school is very, very expensive and we can do something about it. The debt load in this country is playing with fire.
we just have a fundamentally different view of the role of government. You can't mandate everything and force people to be "good bosses". If the government starts down that path there will always be loopholes. Look at the ACA, have to provide ridiculously expensive plans to employees that didn't want them or services they don't need(pediatric dental for example) then we will hire two part time rather than a full time. Or like I did, just start hiring kids under 26 for entry level positions and let dad's boss foot the bill. Also, it makes me laugh that you diminish peoples real life experiences. A poster asks a question and someone who actually has to deal with those questions or make those decisions gives a real life solution and you poo poo it. However, we should take your travel blogs or random stats from some hack magazine as bible. Not to metnion, your personal experiences with language, travel, income, and job placement. You ever wonder why people from all parts of the spectrum are constantly disagreeing with you? You really think it's because you are that much smarter or experienced than everyone else? You must really miss BRG
I tend to agree with vkj91 on this issue and I think at least 50% of the CE board think I'm a liberal. I don't think public college should be free. There already too many unqualified kids going to college and in most cases they are going to For Profit colleges that are a scam. Most of the highest average student loans colleges are For profit colleges that probably accept students that can not get into community colleges or any other school, basically C to D students in high school. If the student loans weren't spread over under deserving student going to For Profit Colleges, then the student loans balance can go down significantly if they were spread over the students going to public colleges. The average student loan is about 25k when they graduate not the crazy stories you hear of six figure student loans. There are ways to get a college education as VKj91 has indicated without increasing their student loans.
Everyone is placing too much emphasis on the school name and don't place anything on the individual. I was a 3.2 GPA student a little above average, as well as my siblings but we're all millionaires retired in their mid fifties. The kids are 2.9-3.5 GPA , not brilliant, but they are doing better than their parents. We succeeded because we have the desire, living in the ghetto in Paterson in my early years does that. I remember when I got out and I thought I had a job beneath me, I got physically sick and had to find a better job. IT took a while and a couple of jobs before I settled for a good company, Westinghouse, for 20 plus years. Oh, none of the kids have a master degree but easily making over 6 figures.
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The next time you have actual evidence of something will be the first. We all have personal experiences, the difference is your "personal experience" in relation to ACA (among other things) is not born out by people who have studied the issue in depth. You said less people are going into medical school because of ACA. Studies show, not true. So I'm not going to take your experience over studies. You also claimed to know about the effects of illegal immigration based on your "personal experience" which is again, not born out by actual study. You want to attack the source on that? The right wing on this board has used Conservapedia, Newsmax, or one poster will actually say things like "Michael Savage said." It would be one thing to have personal experience AND have some kind of back up on it instead of the personal experience just jiving perfectly right wing talking points without exception or deviation.
The board asks about travel experience. I haven't seen any thread about personal experience with the ACA. Have you? I'm not counting the threads you attempt to turn into a discussion on it. The first time, I eagerly await your response. But do try to not to say things about medical school with which you clearly have no experience or factual evidence.
I otherwise only respond with "personal" with you and others who consistently have nothing to offer but personal attacks. Just because things don't effect me personally doesn't mean I can't view the effects of them.
I have posted actual studies many times. Even I did post a travel blog or "hack magazine"...it would be one blogger versus one person on a message board. Given what some people say on here, especially on the CE board, I'm inclined to believe a psychic or mental patient ahead of them. Either way, it's a one person versus one person comparison. Given your constant attacks and saying things that I know to not even be close to true again and again, or that you've been on the wrong side of history multiple times, I am inclined not to take your individual word versus that of others. At least some of the other righties have contributions in other areas that have come true. You were wrong about everything from elections to coaches to tuition costs based on your "personal experience." I on the other hand was right from the beginning on both elections, on Flood, and was shouted down for being one of the first people to break the news on the B1G back in 2012. So, that a bunch of people who were consistently wrong on those things again and again disagree with me is actually validation. Frankly I enjoy watching them go down in flames repeatedly. I just wish that serious things weren't at stake while they clung to nonsense.
Two distinct issues; public colleges versus "for profit".
For profit schools should be monitored, and they are, and many have shut, and I heard "a Mexican" is even looking at fraud committed by one.
Here in NJ, there are students who can't even make say Kean or Willy P, so this would avoid people going to college who should not without proving themselves in community college.
Watching NIRH lecture someone for relying too much on personal experiences in a thread in which he declared, on page 1, "No millenial wants to live on a cul de sac. We live in cities. We leave the rush to the burbs in unhappy marriages with unwanted and can't be afforded children to the older generation."
That was obviously based on nothing except, NIRH doesn't want to live in a cul de sac, lives in a city (sort of) and ... well that other shit is just nonsense not worth repeating, but you get the idea.
That was obviously based on nothing except, NIRH doesn't want to live in a cul de sac, lives in a city (sort of) and ... well that other shit is just nonsense not worth repeating, but you get the idea.
That was in response to the OP lecturing us on what we want. I clearly used hyperbole, which goes over the head of the slow, but that is OK.
But of course every study still shows millenials overwhelmingly moving to cities. So the idea that they are demanding surburban homes as idiotically posited by an old man on a lawn is not born by reality.
OTOH, telling someone a law is bad because of their personal experience when the entire weight of countless studies show the exact opposite results...well...you just be might be a RWCJ member....
But of course every study still shows millenials overwhelmingly moving to cities. So the idea that they are demanding surburban homes as idiotically posited by an old man on a lawn is not born by reality.
OTOH, telling someone a law is bad because of their personal experience when the entire weight of countless studies show the exact opposite results...well...you just be might be a RWCJ member....
There's a difference between effective hyperbole and raging stupidity. You should learn it.
Not sure that anyone said millennials are demanding suburban homes, but the idea that they never will is hilarious. You, the self-made poster child for all things millennial, pretty much live in a suburban home as someone who's actually representative of millennials pointed out way back in the beginning of the thread.
Suffice it to say, you have a running history of using your own personal experiences as if they're fact or representative of something greater. So don't lecture someone else on it.
Not sure that anyone said millennials are demanding suburban homes, but the idea that they never will is hilarious. You, the self-made poster child for all things millennial, pretty much live in a suburban home as someone who's actually representative of millennials pointed out way back in the beginning of the thread.
Suffice it to say, you have a running history of using your own personal experiences as if they're fact or representative of something greater. So don't lecture someone else on it.
I'll take advice from the banned acting as board police who personally attack basic everyone exactly never. You don't know where I live though being a stalker I'm sure you would love to know
Part of your argument is actually for free public schools. I think school names are important if it's top 25. Otherwise, I agree with you.
I do know where you live. And where you work, where you travel, where you grew up. Because you talk about it all the time, when you need "facts" to support whatever completely wrong point you're trying to make. That's what this whole sidebar was all about.
And judging by that first sentence, you could use all kinds of advice.
TL; DR
^ What all millennials are saying right now about this thread.
^ What all millennials are saying right now about this thread.
thank you for teaching this old guy a new expression!
There is minimal moderation for stalking and honestly I am hardly the only that deals with it. I don't mind too much but I can understand why its frustrating for others.
Summary.
1.Some old people think young people suck. Some old people disagree.
2. Wahh, things are harder for young people today. No their not. Yes they are. No they are not.
3. FS52 and NirH are in another pissing match.
I dislike the frequent personal attacks on this board -- and I think the moderators should be more active in dealing with it, which is why I try to do their job for them. -- but I don't think that anything in this thread qualifies as "stalking." "Stalking" to me means someone is following you around with the intent of doing you injury, Responding to comments, even in a hostile way, does not strike me as "stalking." Frankly, if it is, then you are as guilty as the posters you attack.
Yes I fight fire with fire. The way people grasp at straws...someone once said I denied 9-11...very unfortunate
Fighting fire with fire is an effective tactic at times, but I don't think it's working here either for you or your opponents.
