OT: MMR vaccine not associated with autism, even in at risk children

[Ty Webb]

Yes you do. Put down the bottle and go to bed

Says the guy who is ranting and raving in this thread, has offered up little to no proof of his positions, doesn't know the difference between your and you're, throwing around belligerent insults, etc.

Impressive performance.

And note, I never said diagnosis was THE reason for the increase. It was "a" reason meaning one of a few reasons. So add "you can't read" to the list of your drunken accomplishments tonight.

 

[LocalDC]

if you think gluten sensitivity is limited to the small intestine then you can make up anything you like...it really won't matter...so have a great day

 

[WhiteBus]

Says the guy who is ranting and raving in this thread, has offered up little to no proof of his positions, doesn't know the difference between your and you're, throwing around belligerent insults, etc.

Impressive performance.

And note, I never said diagnosis was THE reason for the increase. It was "a" reason meaning one of a few reasons. So add "you can't read" to the list of your drunken accomplishments tonight.

Your the jackass that is backing a dumb theory that Autism isn't on the rise. I can defend my positions. Yours can not be. you have made the dumbest post on this thread and believe me that is a big accomplishment. Again put down the bottle because you have no clue of the subject matter

 

[niarte]

Celiac disease is a real autoimmune disease with multi-system involvement. Gluten sensitivity is an unproven dietary fad, belief in which goes far beyond the scientific evidence and using it as evidence for the plausibility of vaccines being associated with autism...

 

[MozRU]

As an American, I have a responsibility to conduct myself in a manner that provides a safe environment for my community. A manner that does not pose a risk on to them.

In life there is risk. It is IMPOSSIBLE to eliminate all risk in every facet of our lives. PROGRESSIVES ARE TRYING TO ELIMINATE 100% ALL RISK FROM THEIR LIVES PUTTING UNDUE BURDER ON THE MAJORITY.

The probability of sickness through immunization is MUCH smaller than the risk of sickness by a population of people who are not immunized.

Progressives, along extremely radical conservatives, are destroying the advances our modern society has achieved in the 20th century.

Thank God for the right to bear arms. We are going to need it again like the sons of liberty did.

 

[LocalDC]

you should really stop talking about gluten...it is not in the same category as autism...there are tests, you can prove it; you can take someone off gluten and have their non celiac problems get better, put them back on and they get worse...please stop..there are all types of tests,etc...just drop it

 

[Upstream]

Celiac disease is a real autoimmune disease with multi-system involvement. Gluten sensitivity is an unproven dietary fad, belief in which goes far beyond the scientific evidence and using it as evidence for the plausibility of vaccines being associated with autism...

Actually there is some clinical evidence that non-celiac sensitivity to gluten-containing foods exists. However the evidence isn't clear whether gluten in the culprit, or if it is something else like short "FODMAP" carbohydrates.

 

[vkj91]

As an American, I have a responsibility to conduct myself in a manner that provides a safe environment for my community. A manner that does not pose a risk on to them.

In life their is risk. It is IMPOSSIBLE to eliminate all risk in every facet of our lives. PROGRESSIVES ARE TRYING TO ELIMINATE 100% ALL RISK FROM THEIR LIVES PUTTING UNDUE BURDER ON THE MAJORITY.

The probability of sickness through immunization is MUCH smaller than the risk of sickness by a population of people who are not immunized.

Progressives, along extremely radical conservatives, are destroying the advances our modern society has achieved in the 20th century.

Thank God for the right to bear arms. We are going to need it again like the sons of liberty did.

True. Going to need the guns to shoot all those unvaccinated kids who get chicken pox.....

 

[vm7118]

this is a f*cking joke. the facts:

- it has been scientifically proven that there is absolutely no link between vaccines and autism
- it has been scientifically proven that vaccines have saved, and will save, millions upon millions of lives
- by refusing to vaccinate your children, you are not only hurting them, but hurting everyone they come in contact with. see: herd immunity.

were it not for the last point, nobody would care whatsoever what you did with your own body. your children's bodies are another matter: that is negligence. and there are some people who are medically unable to take vaccines, most commonly very young infants and the elderly with other conditions. by disrupting herd immunity, you are putting them at risk, in addition to your own children.

anyone who consciously makes that decision should be prevented from sending their children to public schools, for safety reasons alone.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Thank you to RU1994 and ScarletPride for contributions here (and to Der for bringing the issue up).

It appears that a lot of the reason for the increase in diagnoses is a change in the definition of the condition (as Scarlet Pride noted). Another factor is increased awareness.

Diagnosis often occurs at about the same time as vaccinations, so making that association is understandable, if incorrect.

The research that has attempted to find a link between autism and vaccination has failed to do so. Although this work is, of necessity, mostly not experimental in nature, it's pretty rigorous.

The problem here is that failure to vaccinate not only affects the children involved, but many others, some of whom have immune deficiencies related to other conditions, or an inability to get simple things like flu vaccines. They are at greatly increased risk when children aren't vaccinated.

And so, we are at a common juncture: we are pretty sure that action X should be taken based on our best scientific understanding. But that understanding is not 100% certain (pretty much never is), and mandating action X goes against our sense of personal freedom.

Second hand smoke, seat belts, climate change, GMO foods, buying health insurance, Big Gulps, banning Neil Diamond albums, all tough calls.

 

[niarte]

Actually there is some clinical evidence that non-celiac sensitivity to gluten-containing foods exists. However the evidence isn't clear whether gluten in the culprit, or if it is something else like short "FODMAP" carbohydrates.

I agree, but FODMAPs aren't gluten, and the evidence is still scant. The irony is the use of the "existence" of non-celiac gluten sensitivity to make an argument for the plausibility of a connection between vaccines and autism.

 

[Upstream]

I agree, but FODMAPs aren't gluten, and the evidence is still scant. The irony is the use of the "existence" of non-celiac gluten sensitivity to make an argument for the plausibility of a connection between vaccines and autism.

I agree that there is no connection in the arguments regarding gluten sensitivity and a connection between vaccines and autism.

My point was that there is some clinical evidence, as scant as it may be, that non-celiac gluten sensitivity may exist. There is zero clinical evidence that there is a connection between vaccines and autism.

Plus, if you decide to go gluten-free, you really don't affect anyone but yourself. If you forego vaccines, you put other people at risk.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

wow, just wow...the unwillingness to accept the possibility that injecting children with multiple agents from a very young age could have an adverse effect-and to consider it a closed case, an impossibility, is hard to accept. sounds more like a religious battle--maybe that's why there are religious exemptions.

I am conversely alarmed buy the number of people on this board, presumably college graduates, who cannot accept basic scientific reason. Multiple scientific studies, and all studies with any credibility, have concluded that vaccinations do not cause autism. The response, in sum, is "I don't believe you."

For the people suggesting that vaccines could still be causing autism, despite all evidence to the contrary, at what point can we agree that we don't know the cause, but we know its not vaccines? Is there ever a time when can vaccines be ruled out?

Whitebus argues that nothing can be ruled out until a cause is proven. This is positively ludicrous, and directly counter to the way scientific process works. If we actually performed research in this way nothing would ever be accomplished. When you study something, and evidence indicates it is not a cause, you move on to the next thing. That way resources are constantly being directed at where a solution is more likely to be found. Of course the research on vaccines could be all wrong, but what is the best use of limited resources? A 10th study on vaccines? Or a first study on something we haven't looked at yet?

Imagine if we took Whitebus's approach on the treatment side. People would be taking 800 pills a day. From shark cartiledge to deer antlers, wheat grass soy milkshakes and every herbal supplement imaginable. Sure, the studies have shown that none has a demonstrable effect on curing anything, but they haven't been positively ruled out either.

 

[Ty Webb]

Your the jackass that is backing a dumb theory that Autism isn't on the rise. I can defend my positions. Yours can not be. you have made the dumbest post on this thread and believe me that is a big accomplishment. Again put down the bottle because you have no clue of the subject matter

Well you haven't defended your position all that well here.

Two, I never said autism numbers aren't up. But unlike you, I've done research and found there are a lot of reasons why the number is up and it's not tied to vaccines and other nefarious things that the anti-vaxxers are screaming about. Diagnosis, awareness accounts for anywhere from 40-50% of the increase. Additionally, studies have shown that women, as they get older, show increased propensity for their child to develop autism. Studies have shown the average age of women having babies has increased and with that the number of cases of autism is also going up. So there are reasons (beyond these two examples) out there that have nothing to do with vaccines.

See unlike you, I seek knowledge............ my desire isn't to be some conspiracy wacko.

 

[PhDKnight]

I feel the need to repost this from above....

Normally don't post often, but this one hits close. I am a pediatrician, researcher, and epidemiologist. There are some here that are using facts and critical thinking, and many that still are adhering to popular beliefs and misunderstanding what scientific research is all about. A few things to consider:

1) Science is not about proving anything 100%. By nature, that is impossible. Can we ever prove that vaccines absolutely do not contribute to to autism? No. Only if we studied all 6+ billion people on Earth could that be possible, and even then, it would not account for the multi-factorial (epigentics as someone above pointed out) nature of many diseases. Using the best science and nearly 100,000 children, the link with a high degree of certainty minimizes the risk of autism from vaccines

2) Surveillance Bias. Do you know why more kids have autism? In part its because our generation of parents looks for any signs of imperfection, or not "competing" with other young children. They alert the primary doctor, who now also has a bias towards diagnosis. Bam...you child has autism-spectrum disorder. I am CERTAIN that MANY people in previous generations have ASD but were not diagnosed. Why? Because nobody was looking for it. Many of my teachers in med school and since have some ASD, I am sure of it. It was just not en vogue to diagnose. Also, ASD seems to have a tendency for more wealthy Caucasian populations, of which there are many more in the US now that 30+ years ago. This may go hand in hand with increased surveillance.

3) Time of Diagnosis. It is in many ways coincidence when ASD is diagnosed, as it is during the age that many vaccines are administered (from 1-4 years of age). The chance of diagnosis of Autism is most likely to be in this window, which makes me think the chicken (autism) came before the egg (vaccines) in most cases. In terms of time, also note that the agent thought to contribute, Thimerisol, has bee absent in vaccines for 15 years.

4) Societal Benefit. People who refuse to vaccinate based on hearsay are the most selfish in the world. They depend on others who are vaccinated to protect their children. They use idiots like Jennie McCarthy and Facebook moms to make their conclusion. Vaccines save lives. Vaccines have probably saved your life, you just take it for granted. I have seen infants die of pertussis (whooping cough), children die of measles, pneumococcal, and Hib sepsis, and have seen the torture suffered by an 8 yo with tetanus. The number of adverse events from vaccines compared to the number of people protected is miniscule. They put young infants, children with cancer and other immune suppressed at risk because of your selfishness. Every time I see a child diagnoses with a vaccine-preventable disease, it makes me cringe. Do you all know why child mortality from infection is so rare in the United States? Because we vaccinate. It is not voodoo, it is common sense.

^THIS!!!!!!!!

I could not have said this better.

 

[coldsprings]

I would imagine that no more than a very few who keep telling us that the science is settled have read the literature. If you haven't quoting doctors like the compromised by making millions from vaccinations Dr. Paul Offit is no better than quoting Jenny McCarthy.

This essay covers all the techniques of the "shut up the science is settled" folks. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/04/bretigne-shaffer/first-they-came-for-the-anti-vaxxers/

From the essay:

"Whatever Your Views on Vaccines, the Prospect of Forced Vaccination Ought to Make You Very Very Afraid

Do those who believe in mandated vaccination really want to establish the precedent of granting a government body the power to compel people to be injected with substances against their will? You may support the forced vaccination of other people’s children because you think vaccines are undeniably beneficial and problem-free. But you may not be so thrilled about the next substance the state decides everyone should have forced into their veins.

Do you really want to establish the precedent of being able to demand from your neighbors that they pose no risk to you at all? The corollary of course being that they may then demand the same of you? If as a society we decide that we have the right to demand a 100% risk-free environment in which to live then the potential intrusions into our lives are infinite."​

 

[Knight Ed]

I blame soccer. The more kids who play soccer in the US. the more kids who get autism.

US Youth Soccer Annual Registration of Players 1974 - 103,432
1980 - 810,793
1985 - 1,210,408
1990 - 1,615,041
1995 - 2,388,719
2000 - 3,020,442
2005 - 3,050,465
2007 - 3,123,698
2008 - 3,148,114

 

[RcoasterA]

I would imagine that no more than a very few who keep telling us that the science is settled have read the literature. If you haven't quoting doctors like the compromised by making millions from vaccinations Dr. Paul Offit is no better than quoting Jenny McCarthy.

This essay covers all the techniques of the "shut up the science is settled" folks. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/04/bretigne-shaffer/first-they-came-for-the-anti-vaxxers/

From the essay:

"Whatever Your Views on Vaccines, the Prospect of Forced Vaccination Ought to Make You Very Very Afraid

Do those who believe in mandated vaccination really want to establish the precedent of granting a government body the power to compel people to be injected with substances against their will? You may support the forced vaccination of other people’s children because you think vaccines are undeniably beneficial and problem-free. But you may not be so thrilled about the next substance the state decides everyone should have forced into their veins.

Do you really want to establish the precedent of being able to demand from your neighbors that they pose no risk to you at all? The corollary of course being that they may then demand the same of you? If as a society we decide that we have the right to demand a 100% risk-free environment in which to live then the potential intrusions into our lives are infinite."​

You've turned this into a philosophical debate not a science debate at this point. Most people on here are saying (or trying to say) Science shows Vaccines don't cause autism. Your saying Governments shouldn't force vaccinations. Those are 2 entirely different conversations.

 

[Jesse_C]

I blame soccer. The more kids who play soccer in the US. the more kids who get autism.

US Youth Soccer Annual Registration of Players 1974 - 103,432
1980 - 810,793
1985 - 1,210,408
1990 - 1,615,041
1995 - 2,388,719
2000 - 3,020,442
2005 - 3,050,465
2007 - 3,123,698
2008 - 3,148,114

Funnily enough

https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/gr...-artificial-turf-debate?mode=blog&context=114

 

[RU85inFla]

I am conversely alarmed buy the number of people on this board, presumably college graduates, who cannot accept basic scientific reason. Multiple scientific studies, and all studies with any credibility, have concluded that vaccinations do not cause autism. The response, in sum, is "I don't believe you."

For the people suggesting that vaccines could still be causing autism, despite all evidence to the contrary, at what point can we agree that we don't know the cause, but we know its not vaccines? Is there ever a time when can vaccines be ruled out?

Whitebus argues that nothing can be ruled out until a cause is proven. This is positively ludicrous, and directly counter to the way scientific process works. If we actually performed research in this way nothing would ever be accomplished. When you study something, and evidence indicates it is not a cause, you move on to the next thing. That way resources are constantly being directed at where a solution is more likely to be found. Of course the research on vaccines could be all wrong, but what is the best use of limited resources? A 10th study on vaccines? Or a first study on something we haven't looked at yet?

Imagine if we took Whitebus's approach on the treatment side. People would be taking 800 pills a day. From shark cartiledge to deer antlers, wheat grass soy milkshakes and every herbal supplement imaginable. Sure, the studies have shown that none has a demonstrable effect on curing anything, but they haven't been positively ruled out either.

Ole Cabbagehead - I'm taking a break from building a risk model for a client of mine in Mexico to read more crazy posts over here. My business partner and I make a healthy living doing analytical work a year and after reading your post I can assure you that a college education alone does not make one an analyst.

The challenge with Autism, unlike other diseases, is twofold. First we do not know what groups, sub-segments of the population, are susceptible. Second, we do not know the triggers that cause onset. The issue with all of the studies is that they basically conclude that vaccinations do not cause Autism in the general public. What they do not answer is do they cause Autism in some yet to be defined sub-segment. Should this be continued to be investigated and how much should be spent - probably based upon anecdotal evidence at least until we have more information as to what are the characteristics of children that might be effected and specifically what are the causes.

My personal hypothesis is that the old vaccines with the heavy metals may have caused harm to children because of operator error. Multi use vials existed for years as I mentioned yesterday. You incorrectly stated that multi use vials were for one patient only. This was not the case with respect to vaccines. I am quite certain that in a percentage of instances, vials were not shaken properly and the kids that got the bottom of the vial may have had a reaction to the dosage that was very different from what it should be if properly dispensed. Note yesterdays comments that the Pharma companies are moving from multi use vaccines. Unfortunately Big Pharma doesn't want the liability associated with the prior product so we spend research dollars investigating the vaccine/Autism link when it was all probably just operator error on the part of Doctors and Nurses administering vaccines.

 

[RUsojo]

I have no dog in this fight but I must say reading through this thread has given me a very nice elementary education on the issue.

From what I've gathered, it seems parents who choose to believe the vaccination link are using vaccines to appropriate blame while in a state of emotional distress. Hopefully, the discussion happening here will help those people, like White Bus and others, return to a state of rationality and change their stance. As another poster stated, refusing to vaccinate is borderline negligence and putting others in the population at risk.

 

[BuggsyRU]

The stupidity of diagnosis theory blows my mind. So many of you have no clue.

To the contrary.

Ty's point that more people are diagnosed now than ever before due to increased understanding of what autism is... makes perfect sense. I know for sure of kids that I went to school with....who were not labeled as autistic by 1985's standards, that absolutely one hundred percent would be by today's standards. Does that mean they weren't autistic back then because they were not labeled back then? Of course not. The fact that you disagree with that pretty much solidifies it in my mind .

You have a pattern. You try to shout down and mock people that don't share the same opinion as you. You hurl insults, and call people stupid. Say they have no class.

I may have done that also. About 35 years ago when I was still a kid.

In my third grade daughter's class has a name for that. It's called bullying. Based on your history on this board, I have no doubt whatsoever that you were a bully as a kid, and continue to be one today.

Derleider sounds infinitely more intelligent on this subject than you do....and all you can do when being crushed in a debate with him is try to insult his intelligence and call him names.

You should really take a long hard look at yourself, and how many times you call people names or insult them by saying they have no class.

An educated grown man shouldn't be stooping to such low levels.

 

[charliem24]

Thank you to RU1994 and ScarletPride for contributions here (and to Der for bringing the issue up).

It appears that a lot of the reason for the increase in diagnoses is a change in the definition of the condition (as Scarlet Pride noted). Another factor is increased awareness.

Diagnosis often occurs at about the same time as vaccinations, so making that association is understandable, if incorrect.

The research that has attempted to find a link between autism and vaccination has failed to do so. Although this work is, of necessity, mostly not experimental in nature, it's pretty rigorous.

The problem here is that failure to vaccinate not only affects the children involved, but many others, some of whom have immune deficiencies related to other conditions, or an inability to get simple things like flu vaccines. They are at greatly increased risk when children aren't vaccinated.

And so, we are at a common juncture: we are pretty sure that action X should be taken based on our best scientific understanding. But that understanding is not 100% certain (pretty much never is), and mandating action X goes against our sense of personal freedom.

Second hand smoke, seat belts, climate change, GMO foods, buying health insurance, Big Gulps, banning Neil Diamond albums, all tough calls.

Made me laugh, though "Crakin Rosie" is a very serious matter.

 

[coldsprings]

You've turned this into a philosophical debate not a science debate at this point. Most people on here are saying (or trying to say) Science shows Vaccines don't cause autism. Your saying Governments shouldn't force vaccinations. Those are 2 entirely different conversations.

Actually I'm raising a related issue and it is practical as well as philosophical since some in this thread claim society is threatened by those who don't vaccinate. Presumably they want government to coerce others.

And the essay I quoted from provides links arguing the science. Since I'm not a scientist all I can say the science is not settled. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/04/bretigne-shaffer/first-they-came-for-the-anti-vaxxers/

 

[Ty Webb]

I didn't read the entire essay you posted but the author didn't seem to mention the new study that came out. Further some of the allegations were funny. The author mentions thermisol and talks about and references a link as if it's still prevalent in vaccines but the link shows that a large majority of vaccines don't have it and many never had it. The only real prevalence of it was in flu vaccines which really aren't the issue at play here.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Ole Cabbagehead - I'm taking a break from building a risk model for a client of mine in Mexico to read more crazy posts over here. My business partner and I make a healthy living doing analytical work a year and after reading your post I can assure you that a college education alone does not make one an analyst.

The challenge with Autism, unlike other diseases, is twofold. First we do not know what groups, sub-segments of the population, are susceptible. Second, we do not know the triggers that cause onset. The issue with all of the studies is that they basically conclude that vaccinations do not cause Autism in the general public. What they do not answer is do they cause Autism in some yet to be defined sub-segment. Should this be continued to be investigated and how much should be spent - probably based upon anecdotal evidence at least until we have more information as to what are the characteristics of children that might be effected and specifically what are the causes.

My personal hypothesis is that the old vaccines with the heavy metals may have caused harm to children because of operator error. Multi use vials existed for years as I mentioned yesterday. You incorrectly stated that multi use vials were for one patient only. This was not the case with respect to vaccines. I am quite certain that in a percentage of instances, vials were not shaken properly and the kids that got the bottom of the vial may have had a reaction to the dosage that was very different from what it should be if properly dispensed. Note yesterdays comments that the Pharma companies are moving from multi use vaccines. Unfortunately Big Pharma doesn't want the liability associated with the prior product so we spend research dollars investigating the vaccine/Autism link when it was all probably just operator error on the part of Doctors and Nurses administering vaccines.

I accept the response you gave in the 2nd paragraph above. That is a legit opinion, and makes sense to me. I reply (and quote) only to point out that in your 3rd para I think you are arguing with someone else. My post you quoted was my 1st post in this thread. It was others talking about multi-dose vials and defending Big Pharma.

 

[Mike from MD]

My personal hypothesis is that the old vaccines with the heavy metals may have caused harm to children because of operator error. Multi use vials existed for years as I mentioned yesterday. You incorrectly stated that multi use vials were for one patient only. This was not the case with respect to vaccines. I am quite certain that in a percentage of instances, vials were not shaken properly and the kids that got the bottom of the vial may have had a reaction to the dosage that was very different from what it should be if properly dispensed. Note yesterdays comments that the Pharma companies are moving from multi use vaccines. Unfortunately Big Pharma doesn't want the liability associated with the prior product so we spend research dollars investigating the vaccine/Autism link when it was all probably just operator error on the part of Doctors and Nurses administering vaccines.

Aluminum salts have been used as adjuvants for decades to improve the immune response. Even in a multi-dose vial, the amount of aluminum was well below a safe threshold. It can all fall to the bottom of the vial and have no ill effects on the last patient the received an injection.

There are a couple of reasons for Pharma moving away from multi-dose vials:

1. The risk for sterility assurance from multiple entries into the vial
2. Ease of filling and handling single does vials
   
3. Move toward single use syringes

It is absurd to state that Pharma doesn't want the liability associated with past products. They did and it all but caused most vaccine manufacturers to get out of the business. The federal government created a vaccine court to address liabilities in the late 1980s.

 

[RU85inFla]

Aluminum salts have been used as adjuvants for decades to improve the immune response. Even in a multi-dose vial, the amount of aluminum was well below a safe threshold. It can all fall to the bottom of the vial and have no ill effects on the last patient the received an injection.

There are a couple of reasons for Pharma moving away from multi-dose vials:

1. The risk for sterility assurance from multiple entries into the vial
2. Ease of filling and handling single does vials
   
3. Move toward single use syringes

It is absurd to state that Pharma doesn't want the liability associated with past products. They did and it all but caused most vaccine manufacturers to get out of the business. The federal government created a vaccine court to address liabilities in the late 1980s.

Mike you would certainly know more than I. If your comments about heavy metals are correct then thats great news and should be enough to kill that version of the argument. However, as I posted earlier, I understand a number of doctors treating Autistic patients did in fact work together and send data to the CDC about their patients to analyze this very question. This happened in an organized fashion over a decade ago. Unfortunately the CDC never responded and never gave the data back. You might see how that causes a little skepticism in some with respect to your comments above. After this, the shit hit the fan so to say politically.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Until they have the reason for the dramatic rise in autism than statements like this are completely stupid. Nothing has been eliminated. ..period!

We haven't proven that some planets are made out of green cheese. Until that's proven, I believe that it's possible and any statements otherwise are completely stupid.

 

[Scarlet Pride]

Actually I'm raising a related issue and it is practical as well as philosophical since some in this thread claim society is threatened by those who don't vaccinate. Presumably they want government to coerce others.

And the essay I quoted from provides links arguing the science. Since I'm not a scientist all I can say the science is not settled. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/04/bretigne-shaffer/first-they-came-for-the-anti-vaxxers/

It's very clear you are trying to introduce anti-government conspiracy theorist agenda to the debate. It's just another distraction from actual science.

 

[Mike from MD]

Mike you would certainly know more than I. If your comments about heavy metals are correct then thats great news and should be enough to kill that version of the argument. However, as I posted earlier, I understand a number of doctors treating Autistic patients did in fact work together and send data to the CDC about their patients to analyze this very question. This happened in an organized fashion over a decade ago. Unfortunately the CDC never responded and never gave the data back. You might see how that causes a little skepticism in some with respect to your comments above. After this, the shit hit the fan so to say politically.

There was a recent issue with ex-CDC researcher and whistle-blower, William Thompson who claimed that the CDC suppressed data in 2004 that showed a 380% increase in autism in blacks that were vaccinated. Thompson was one of the researchers co-authored the infamous Wakefield study that was published in Lancet. Thompson claimed the CDC statistical analysis was biased, but experts were able to refute Thompson. He retracted those claims last year. I don't think this is the same incident you mentioned, but I cannot find any information about CDC suppressing data other than unsubstantiated claims from some crack-pot websites.

 

[RU4Real]

For what it's worth, there was a study done in Denmark, drawing on 10 years of records on 500,000 newborns, which determined that 60% of the increase in autism was a result of diagnostic revision and the other 40% was just plain increase.

 

[WhiteBus]

For what it's worth, there was a study done in Denmark, drawing on 10 years of records on 500,000 newborns, which determined that 60% of the increase in autism was a result of diagnostic revision and the other 40% was just plain increase.

Still a big increase. Especially for those parents who wonder what they "did wrong"

 

[RU4Real]

Oh, there's definitely an increase. Yeah, I get that diagnostic criteria have changed. But that doesn't account for the whole shift.

Ultimately, the answer isn't just one thing. Ultimately, the answer winds up being a combination of genetic factors and environmental triggers. There's too much focus, I think, placed on the question of "what's wrong with the kids?". There needs to be more focus placed on things like, maybe, our generation running down the street behind the mosquito truck probably wasn't a good idea.

 

[WhiteBus]

Oh, there's definitely an increase. Yeah, I get that diagnostic criteria have changed. But that doesn't account for the whole shift.

Ultimately, the answer isn't just one thing. Ultimately, the answer winds up being a combination of genetic factors and environmental triggers. There's too much focus, I think, placed on the question of "what's wrong with the kids?". There needs to be more focus placed on things like, maybe, our generation running down the street behind the mosquito truck probably wasn't a good idea.

I got killed on this thread for posting a brief 1st response. I totally agree there are multiple factors for the increase. Just like plane crashes it's never one thing...well except gravity.
And I was one of those kids who ran behind the mosquito truck while my mom smoked cigarettes and drank wine while pregnant with my youngest brother and years later my youngest sister.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Nice summary on the topic:

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf...ccines_dont_cause_autism_so.html#incart_river

Time to get over it and move on to what may be the real cause of autism.

 

[coldsprings]

It's very clear you are trying to introduce anti-government conspiracy theorist agenda to the debate. It's just another distraction from actual science.

Oh, please, stop the name calling. You don't have to be an "anti-government conspiracy theorist" to see the revolving door between regulators (FDA) and Big Pharma. You don't have to be an "anti-government conspiracy theorist" to understand that politicians care far less about your vote than they care about large contributions from Big Pharma. You don't have to be an "anti-government conspiracy theorist" to see that scientists (someone earlier in this thread called them "welfare scientists") are dependent upon grants/contracts from Big Pharma and government. All in all not exactly the atmosphere for true scientific exploration no matter where it leads.

 

[RU4Real]

Oh, please, stop the name calling. You don't have to be an "anti-government conspiracy theorist" to see the revolving door between regulators (FDA) and Big Pharma. You don't have to be an "anti-government conspiracy theorist" to understand that politicians care far less about your vote than they care about large contributions from Big Pharma. You don't have to be an "anti-government conspiracy theorist" to see that scientists (someone earlier in this thread called them "welfare scientists") are dependent upon grants/contracts from Big Pharma and government. All in all not exactly the atmosphere for true scientific exploration no matter where it leads.

This is true in every industry.

 

[coldsprings]

This is true in every industry.

True indeed. And that is why Monsanto has free reign. And that is why ethanol use is mandated. And on and on.

 

[RU4Real]

True indeed. And that is why Monsanto has free reign. And that is why ethanol use is mandated. And on and on.

Hmm.

You seem like someone others might find interesting, but I would not.