Multi use vials are not used in this country for pediatric vaccines, WHO may use them in 3rd world countries but since we are talking about the recent surge in autism and vaccines in this country, I have to say this theory doesn't make sense.
OT: MMR vaccine not associated with autism, even in at risk children
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Multi use vials are not used in this country for pediatric vaccines, WHO may use them in 3rd world countries but since we are talking about the recent surge in autism and vaccines in this country, I have to say this theory doesn't make sense.
I did not realize that . The reference I made was stated as over a decade ago. I've attached a link to a FDA website noting that the last vaccine free of the preservative Thimerosal was approved in 2010. So your statement is correct that we have not used multi dose vials for pediatric vaccines in the US since 2010 when all vaccines became Thimerosal free.
If the old vaccines weren't dangerous, why the elimination of Thimerosal from all of them?
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#t1
I didnt do any name calling but when you enter the conversation talking about government forced vaccinations which was not a topic at hand and then follow up by linking to a right wing anti-government blog - well you pretty much self identify.
Hey Bugs,
Did you mean infinitely more intelligent rather than infinitesimally more intelligent?
haha yes....my bad. Yes, I should have said "infinitely more intelligent"....or maybe just "much more..."
Hmm, seems this thread is still going on. I'm guessing the number of people whose opinions have been changed from the arguments presented is the same number of people who were swayed by the original topic - another convincing study showing no link between autism and vaccination. This is why I think it should no longer be studied.
It seems nobody is being convinced as long as the internet is still around and science education is so poor. Then again, what's actually needed are probably history lessons about what the world was like before vaccination. People have no idea what the world was like before vaccination and antibiotics. It was like this:
Ironically, the success of our treatment and prevention of infectious diseases has allowed cancer and heart disease to thrive in an elderly population that used to just die of pneumonia (which killed 1 in 4 people infected, and often follows the flu).
I work in infectious diseases so I'm obviously biased on this one (you know, towards "correct"). But I also have a brother with Asperger's and am sensitive towards that issue in general. There is no biologically plausible mechanism for vaccination to lead to any form of autism. Despite that, many studies have been done to prove that there is no association. Every single study that has investigated it has found no association between vaccination and autism. And yet, people still aren't convinced. What's left to do? I don't think anything will convince the ignorant.
For what it's worth, I have no hope for a 'cure' either. There are no curable diseases that aren't infections, cancers, or resolved deficiencies. Chronic diseases aren't cured - they are treated.
(Ironically, my brother would not want a cure if one was offered to him. He likes the way he thinks, even if it's pretty odd to the rest of us... and it is)
It seems nobody is being convinced as long as the internet is still around and science education is so poor. Then again, what's actually needed are probably history lessons about what the world was like before vaccination. People have no idea what the world was like before vaccination and antibiotics. It was like this:
Ironically, the success of our treatment and prevention of infectious diseases has allowed cancer and heart disease to thrive in an elderly population that used to just die of pneumonia (which killed 1 in 4 people infected, and often follows the flu).
I work in infectious diseases so I'm obviously biased on this one (you know, towards "correct"). But I also have a brother with Asperger's and am sensitive towards that issue in general. There is no biologically plausible mechanism for vaccination to lead to any form of autism. Despite that, many studies have been done to prove that there is no association. Every single study that has investigated it has found no association between vaccination and autism. And yet, people still aren't convinced. What's left to do? I don't think anything will convince the ignorant.
For what it's worth, I have no hope for a 'cure' either. There are no curable diseases that aren't infections, cancers, or resolved deficiencies. Chronic diseases aren't cured - they are treated.
(Ironically, my brother would not want a cure if one was offered to him. He likes the way he thinks, even if it's pretty odd to the rest of us... and it is)
There have been significant improvements in the supply chain that ensure the vaccines are maintained under refrigerated conditions from the manufacturer to the end user. That has allowed the manufacturers to delete preservatives that were needed in the older vaccines where the temperature controlled supply chain was not well developed.
Thimerosal contains ethyl-mercury. It does not accumulate in the tissues or nervous system, and is easily removed from the body in a couple of weeks. Safety studies in infants demonstrated complete removal in less than 4 hours.
See the link to an excellent summary on a 2010 CDC study that evaluated the potential link between Thimerosal and Autism.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Thimerosal/QA_Pediatrics-thimerosal-autism.html
Been outrageously busy, working on our new drug to treat HCV and hopefully a new drug to provide another treatment option for antibiotic resistant bacteria (a looming crisis, worldwide). Nice to see the rational science viewpoint crushing irrational fear-mongering and scientific ignorance.
While explaining scientific mechanisms and statistical analysis can certainly require long, complex posts (and I'm just the guy to do it, lol - but not now), in the vaccines-autism argument, the case against there being a connection is frightfully simple to make and you've made it very well.
You got killed because you tried to poo poo a study that stated there was no link between vaccines and autism. Someone introduced this study, you immediately claimed you can't rule anything out (ie, this study is bogus), even though this study shows there is no link.
Yes and, sure, it was the brief first response. But maybe it was also the innumerable follow up responses with the same arguments, sometimes new ones.
I'm no scientist. But I'm amazed at how easily it seems that folks can hole up in an unsupportable position, one hit with one devastating scientific bomb after another, and refuse to move. At that point, it's about something else, not science. Science, on the other hand, is an unemotional investigation that doesn't care about all the other stuff. I'll take that every time.
Well in truth, that is not accurate. It is the mechanism of multiple sclerosis. The trigger is not known though.
Wow, we should chat sometime. I'm guessing that you work for Merck and that the latter drug you are referring to is relebactam? I hope Merck is fully committed to bringing it to market - it is badly needed in our area.
The antibiotic resistance crisis isn't looming - it's here.
Hey Mike
leave it to you to take it to a personal level
as a non clinician you have a pretty big mouth with nothing to back it up
the next person you help in a clinical setting will be your first
you and your big pharma poison
predictable arrogant ignorance once again
leave it to you to take it to a personal level
as a non clinician you have a pretty big mouth with nothing to back it up
the next person you help in a clinical setting will be your first
you and your big pharma poison
predictable arrogant ignorance once again
Just FYI - infinitesimally actually means very very small - so um - thanks for the compliment I guess? :)
You're a chiropractor. You dabble in neck snapping and pushing overpriced supplements with no proven benefit. You're not a clinician - you're a quack. Your rants about autoimmunity are ignorant.
I have a very long history of getting drugs to patients with critical needs. Who is the last patient you protected from pathogens or treated their cancer into remission?
Hippa precludes me from answering that..you may have heard of that, not sure
don't know why you get so irritable
you should take something for it
perhaps you can make up another vaccine..you are probably good at that..adios..enjoy your ivory tower of make believe
don't know why you get so irritable
you should take something for it
perhaps you can make up another vaccine..you are probably good at that..adios..enjoy your ivory tower of make believe
Yes, I changed that. I definitely meant just the opposite of "very small." My meaning was to compliment you.
Actually HIPPA doesn't preclude you from answering that. It precludes you from providing personally identifiable information. There is nothing preventing you from sharing case studies (case studies are published all the time) as long as you don't provide personally identifiable information.
Since there's no such thing as "HIPPA", I'm assuming we're talking about HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability & Accountability Act) - which allows me to observe, not for the first time or even the hundredth, how ridiculous it is that so many people throw that acronym around and have zero idea what it actually means.
And you're right - HIPAA doesn't preclude him from answering the question.
Yeah I know. I just can't help but correct stuff like that. I guess its the editor in me.
4Real, Thanks for the corection on HIPAA. I just copied what DC wrote, thought it looked funny, and hit post as my 11:00 conf call started.
Yep, I knew that - my post was mostly directed at the Good Sorta Doctor. No worries.
Agreed. Chiropractors have a role in HC, but they need to keep quiet about playing the "I'm a doctor" card.
Are you suggesting that the role of Chiropractors in health care extends well beyond treating things like musculoskeletal pain? Do you think in the future, chiropractors will provide the primary treatment for infectious diseases, cancer, diabetes, stroke, or coronary disease?
I mean this only with regards to your persona in this particular thread: I would not entrust my health care to you whatsoever with the attitude displayed here.
I don't blame you
its a message board where there has never been civil discourse in anything I have seen regarding health care
for my first year on it, I didn't understand that so I tried to bring in studies and real information
that was my mistake
now I just respond in kind when I get caught up in a thread here and there
its a message board where there has never been civil discourse in anything I have seen regarding health care
for my first year on it, I didn't understand that so I tried to bring in studies and real information
that was my mistake
now I just respond in kind when I get caught up in a thread here and there
You didn't bring in any studies or real information, you just played the "you DON'T believe injecting stuff can cause brain damage??" game followed by no actual evidence. The statement itself is fine to make - now back it up with some vaccine causes autism science instead of making it seem like it's just common sense.
Honestly, I'm confident your and whitebus's comments have given more innocent readers autism than vaccines ever have.
Here's a summary of the top 10 chiropractic studies from 2013. Underwhelming to say the least. Baffling how this is considered a viable form of healthcare.
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/top-10-chiropractic-studies-of-2013/
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/top-10-chiropractic-studies-of-2013/
Correct and correct. Merck is fully committed to completing clinical studies on relebactam and bringing it to market, should those studies show good safety and efficacy. It would likely be a treatment of last resort for certain highly resistant infections, as I'm guessing you already know. Are you an MD?
As I posted before - we are constantly being exposed to things that cause immune responses - vaccines are just another way to cause an immune response. From a new Nature paper discussed in the NY Times today, even embryos are getting vaccinated. The "culprit" is our own DNA.
A new study published in the journal Nature on Monday suggests that endogenous retroviruses spring to life in the earliest stages of the development of human embryos. The viruses may even assist in human development by helping guide embryonic development and by defending young cells from infections by other viruses.
“The fact that viruses may be playing a vaccine role inside the cell is pretty amazing,” said Guillaume Bourque, a genomicist at McGill University who was not involved in the study.
A new study published in the journal Nature on Monday suggests that endogenous retroviruses spring to life in the earliest stages of the development of human embryos. The viruses may even assist in human development by helping guide embryonic development and by defending young cells from infections by other viruses.
“The fact that viruses may be playing a vaccine role inside the cell is pretty amazing,” said Guillaume Bourque, a genomicist at McGill University who was not involved in the study.
Sharly Attkisson is an Emmy award winning investigative journalist, formerly with CBS. In a new article she cites the many peer-reviewed medical journal articles suggesting links between vaccines and autism http://sharylattkisson.com/what-the-news-isnt-saying-about-vaccine-autism-studies/
