OT: R.I.P. - Pope Francis - age 88
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Baptism - there was a new baptism after the cross
Johnny B =
“I baptize you with water; but he who is mightier than I is coming, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.” Luke 3:16
JC -
“And while staying with them he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, ‘You heard from me, for John baptized with water, but before many days you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’” (Acts 1:4–5)...
"I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you."
The whole scenario was that humankind was born under judgement - a curse. Evil owned humanity as chattel. JC was without the curse and when Satan killed him it brought judgement upon Satan because he murdered someone that wasn't his chattel.
That is what all the "blood of the lamb" and JC as a sacrifice are about. God is working out eternity and is very legalistic. Humans had egos and wanted to be like God - then they picked the wrong side with no human way back - except an innocent is unjustly killed to reverse guilt and the curse
JC is called "Son of Man" and "Son of God" - he bridged two dimensions. The one innocent man paying the price for all the cursed (while never hating his tormentors) broke the exclusive claim Satan had on humanity. People who were sorry for their fallen nature ("blessed are those who mourn" was never about funerals) and recognized the good nature in Jesus would share in his triumph over the curse.
Until JC death and the renewed tie between God and people, the Holy Spirit could not cross over into humans. God cant join to impurity but with the bridge of JC he is now a spiritual turntable or intercessor.
The teaching is that a person can't change themselves they way they need - a spirit of grace is needed. Try to willfully quit a bad habit and it feels dead inside . With a renewed spirit the deadness is countered with a new positive flow - addictions give you up without struggle. Amazing Grace.
Paul:
"I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[ For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." Romans 7:15
That's addiction^^.
The "sin nature" is like a false self that's been conditioned by the environment and stress/people/ temptations in it. The fountain of the true spirit self is underneath all the conditioning that externalizes people. When people yearn for help sincerely (key point) they can be reconnected to the true self they rediscover. It took a spiritual intercession and interface to make that grace happen. The "sin self" isn't you but wants to complete itself at your expense. Jung also taught about a true and false nature.
Johnny B =
“I baptize you with water; but he who is mightier than I is coming, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.” Luke 3:16
JC -
“And while staying with them he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, ‘You heard from me, for John baptized with water, but before many days you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’” (Acts 1:4–5)...
"I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you."
The whole scenario was that humankind was born under judgement - a curse. Evil owned humanity as chattel. JC was without the curse and when Satan killed him it brought judgement upon Satan because he murdered someone that wasn't his chattel.
That is what all the "blood of the lamb" and JC as a sacrifice are about. God is working out eternity and is very legalistic. Humans had egos and wanted to be like God - then they picked the wrong side with no human way back - except an innocent is unjustly killed to reverse guilt and the curse
JC is called "Son of Man" and "Son of God" - he bridged two dimensions. The one innocent man paying the price for all the cursed (while never hating his tormentors) broke the exclusive claim Satan had on humanity. People who were sorry for their fallen nature ("blessed are those who mourn" was never about funerals) and recognized the good nature in Jesus would share in his triumph over the curse.
Until JC death and the renewed tie between God and people, the Holy Spirit could not cross over into humans. God cant join to impurity but with the bridge of JC he is now a spiritual turntable or intercessor.
The teaching is that a person can't change themselves they way they need - a spirit of grace is needed. Try to willfully quit a bad habit and it feels dead inside . With a renewed spirit the deadness is countered with a new positive flow - addictions give you up without struggle. Amazing Grace.
Paul:
"I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[ For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." Romans 7:15
That's addiction^^.
The "sin nature" is like a false self that's been conditioned by the environment and stress/people/ temptations in it. The fountain of the true spirit self is underneath all the conditioning that externalizes people. When people yearn for help sincerely (key point) they can be reconnected to the true self they rediscover. It took a spiritual intercession and interface to make that grace happen. The "sin self" isn't you but wants to complete itself at your expense. Jung also taught about a true and false nature.
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The range of opinions over who "gets into heaven" are all over the map. Common sense would say that a loving and just God would accept all good people into heaven, which is essentially what Vatican II said (below), even if they weren't baptized or accepted Christ as their savior. What kind of God would deny heaven to good people of other faiths who simply never even had a chance to be baptized or become a Christian? It also makes me chuckle that so many think they know what God's position is on this - who are men to judge?
Fortunately, for me, I don't believe in any of this, so I don't have to worry about it, although having said that, I did learn about Jesus's teachings as a kid (was confirmed as a Lutheran) and greatly respect his messages and try to live a good life, which is all that matters to me, since I don't believe there is anything after this life. Other than biodegradation, lol. I just wish that more people in this world followed their religious teachings (which are all fairly similar across all major religions) rather than misusing religion as a weapon to instill fear and control people.
“All this holds true not only for Christians but also for all people of goodwill in whose hearts grace is active invisibly. For since Christ died for everyone, and since all are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partners, in a way known to God, in the paschal mystery”
http://wcucatholic.org/ask-deacon-do-protestants-go-to-heaven/
I believe it is ALL "man created rules". That explains why we have so many religions.
Yep. Reminds me of a couple of lines from one of my favorite songs, "Dear God," by XTC.
Dear God, don't know if you noticed but
Your name is on a lot of quotes in this book
Us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look
Did you make man-kind after we made you?
And the devil too!
Let’s hope and pray there is an afterlife for ALL which includes you. That you still only rely upon the belief all science is authoritative and finite is what one would expect . Explain how this ONE has been recorded and documented for thousands of years? How even scientists can’t explain …including Francis who was a scientist . You say you don’t BELIEVE yet you post about this subject.I find that quite interesting. If you are questioning then you have doubts. You have God to thank that there is a place for science…
Just as your parents or you as a parent have a plan ( hopefully) for your children God has put in place a plan for each of us. Most if not all humans try hard to be good people ( would like to Believe this to be true) . We can’t just go with thinking that living a good life, doing good deeds is the way to reach Heaven. God is ALL Loving … but HE also has certain requirements which have been well documented throughout the world’s history. Is HE going to judge us all fairly…I sure hope so.
How do you discern what is “part of God’s plan”?
How do you know you have the right version of His plan in mind?
I had nothing to do with my own Baptism and my first wife was Catholic...Why is this so strange? My kids are also all in their 30's. That was a very long time ago.
I am not convinced he was the only true son of God. I'm also not sitting around waiting on his return as I feel that there have been others that come from God that have walked the earth. Who am I to say there hasn't been.
It's funny- let's take his potential return, let's say a young man or woman walks up to your front door and tells you they are the 2nd coming...would you believe them or have an open mind to it? Or would you be expecting something much flashier?
Only baptized Catholics get into heaven. Everyone else goes to hell. :)
Yeh but the article also claims this (note: I'm not endorsing or claiming it's true-but since you apparently missed/ignored it):
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation.-CCC 847, quoting Lumen Gentium 16
So maybe you should at least consider seeking to learn more about God?
Per the Babylon Bee
Dalai Lama Quietly Cancels Scheduled Meeting With JD Vance
DHARAMSHALA — After the sad news broke that Pope Francis had passed away just hours after meeting the U.S. Vice President, the Dalai Lama quietly canceled his scheduled meeting with JD Vance.
babylonbee.com
Pope Francis said he loved opposition.
So interesting to see the faith of people who respected Pope Francis versus the "faith" of those that mock him and demand everyone fall into line with their "beliefs."
So interesting to see the faith of people who respected Pope Francis versus the "faith" of those that mock him and demand everyone fall into line with their "beliefs."
Back in the day the unbaptized did the limbo rock
>One tradition that a time-traveler would likely encounter among educated medieval Catholics is belief in limbo—that is, a kind of in-between afterlife zone for unbaptized babies and virtuous non-Christians. Belief in limbo was so common that Dante depicted it in his theological afterlife epic The Divine Comedy.<
Glad You Asked: Do Catholics believe in limbo?
On this episode of the podcast, Claretian Father Paul Keller talks about the concept of limbo, where the idea originated, and what the church teaches about it today.
uscatholic.org
+1Back in the day the unbaptized did the limbo rock
>One tradition that a time-traveler would likely encounter among educated medieval Catholics is belief in limbo—that is, a kind of in-between afterlife zone for unbaptized babies and virtuous non-Christians. Belief in limbo was so common that Dante depicted it in his theological afterlife epic The Divine Comedy.<
Glad You Asked: Do Catholics believe in limbo?
On this episode of the podcast, Claretian Father Paul Keller talks about the concept of limbo, where the idea originated, and what the church teaches about it today.
I think the church had to change this position for babies that died prior to baptism. Catholic parents weren't happy about this limbo scenario.
Neither was Thomas but even as a skeptic Thomas realized Jesus was God.
Absolutely . Infallibility is not a strength of man. As most will realize HE is Merciful and Kind….those unborn are the purest or pure . They reside with God in what is called Heaven. .
You realize most Christian faiths use Baptism not ONLY Catholics. Sadly you come across with a hidden dislike of Catholicism.Yet once Baptized you are always BAPTIZED. Better yet you are SAVED like it or not.🪓🪓🪓🪓
Never claimed that T2Kplus20…you fail to point out ALL Christian Faiths as well Baptize. Yes , God will judge EVERYONE who was born into this world.None of us has the power to say what is actual fact . . but they still search for the Ark of the Covenant. So science does have a desire to verify what most of mankind has been asked to do. TRUST without seeing God in person.
Was the thief on the cross baptized?
Don’t know he may have been Baptized ? …what the Good Book says about one of the two criminals . “ He looked up at Jesus hanging on the Cross and asked for forgiveness…. Jesus replied because you have repented you are forgiven …today , you will be with ME in Heaven “ Another mystery of Faith.
So no baptism was required for the thief’s salvation?
Is baptism required for everyone else to be saved/forgiven?
I didn’t make the rules. Jesus as God will judge and determine. No one said whether the criminal was Baptized or not. Stop with the gotcha’s MSNBC.
Not “gotchas.” Lolz
My questions are designed to encourage you to read the Bible to learn about what God really is like, rather than relying on your feelings and preferences to create a false idol of the god you have imagined Him to be.
No idea what your point is. I could've pasted the whole long article, but that would be annoying for most, especially if I used bold font for arbitrary sections like you usually do.
Encourage is fine attempting to trick and belittle someone with a differing view of Jesus / God that’s sad…there are numerous versions of the Bible.They are similar but also much different. I have read several versions and realize interpretations can be very confusing. So with your comment about “ learning who GOD really is “ I suggest you begin by looking for a different understanding of religions. We all have a preference . I ‘m not an Idol worshipper… I pray to and follow only one in this life. Honestly you are way out of touch when you attempt to ridicule.It is what separates you from millions upon millions of followers of Jesus Christ.
Most people haven't even read the bible. The CC has been successful over the 100s of years in having people think CC doctrine is biblical when they are often opposed.
Remember the scribes and Pharisees were just the academics, clergy and lawyers of Jesus' day. He threw them under the bus constantly. The same would happen today if he came back.
The modern Jesuits are pretty much just neo-Marxists with the usual lopsided intellects that like to play God.
Francis had the CC taking billions from CCP (who were allowed to play a part in Bishop selection). Francis also had the CC taking billions from USAID to fund the NGOs driving the coordinated global invasion. The CC was #1 driver in fact. A pope behind his Vatican wall said it was a sin to turn away invaders. Most people don't even know what the CC was doing to keep its revenue streams going
The founders were wise to be suspicious of clergy and popes.
Can I get into heaven with Real ID?
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This perception of how great Francis was or was not will be determined in the years ahead. He leaned left due to having a shorter left leg. He had many moments where Catholics themselves shook their heads in disbelief. Francis met and allowed a privileged few to skirt the things other Catholics believed or were told was wrong. Similar to what we have seen around the world and especially in the USA. $$$$ talks was a prime thing for Papa Fran.
Nancy ,JB , GC all had a private audience with Francis. He was not a great Pope by no means. Many questionable dispensations given to those who outwardly abused the teachings of the Catholic Church.
So salty lol...I even italicized that relevant section just for you since bold text bothers you so much. Anyway the point is very clear, unfortunately reasoning and critical thinking aren't your thing. But you're very accomplished at posting and linking weather charts! I'll happily spell it out for if you're really interested in a deeper discussion into this topic.
To many think they can make up their own rules instead of following what Jesus told us to do if he wanted a place in heaven.
So it does look like the highway to hell will be traffic jam like and the stairway to heaven be used by the few.
I still believe limbo will be available by those, of any religion, who had good intentions but followed false prophets that pervert the religious tenets of the religion they used for their own profit/agenda.
Purgatory for those who sinned but followed the right path when practicing their religious beliefs.
The Ten Commandments weren't recommendations and when Jesus preached goodness and kindness toward all, he didn't mean only those that are like you .
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