The topics as you described them:
- No bail (false)
- Bail reform (bipartisan, signed in 2016 by someone you supported)
- Decriminalization (still waiting on evidence)
When you explain you can drop them off.
OT: Shooting Near Rutgers
- Thread starter knightfan7
- Start date
The topics as you described them:
- No bail (false)
- Bail reform (bipartisan, signed in 2016 by someone you supported)
- Decriminalization (still waiting on evidence)
When you explain you can drop them off.
I am puzzled by my apparent inability to explain my point. But, being a former professor, I will try again.
The problem here is *not* people who "don't do their job." The problem is people who are doing maybe a B or C plus job -- good enough to not get fired, but not as good as ideal. Many police officers seem to be in that position. Are they justified in not going the extra mile? That's the question to discuss. As I indicated earlier, there are good reasons why a cop might not want to take the risks entailed in doing an A job, and their perception that they are not valued is one of them.
You don’t think this happens? Tenured teachers are nearly impossible to terminate. And I know of multiple teachers that do this exact thing you state.
Shoot I lived in a district where multiple teachers and administrators were dismissed for cause and they settled with a golden parachute settlement and they retained their pensions.
Perhaps your inability to get your point across is the reason you aren't teaching anymore?? (Just adding a little levity to this Sunday morning). 😉
This is a good point and is magnified by officers out in the field trying to arrest the bad guys (sometimes very, very bad guys) and are getting video taped/scrutinized for lightning quick decisions in potentially (and actual) dangerous situatuons. The vast majority here have very little experience/knowledge of what occurs during the time of an arrest/confrontation, and rely on what they read or see during snippets of the full circumstance. And no people, I'm not defending the LEOs who over step their authority. I'll also add when you have an attorney general who is seemingly not supportive of the law enforcement community, that can have an effect as well.
Nah . . . I was sensible. I retired when I was newly married, Who would I rather spend time with -- my colleagues or my wonderful new wife??
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My point is there isn't any other profession I am aware of where someone can be praised for literally not doing their job. I picked teachers because they're also publicly paid but if you know of one, please share it.
Let's take the situation mentioned- refusing to chase the guys who did this shooting. As you pointed out, they were legally able to do so, but told at least one person they could not.
Would you say that is B or C job? I would say it's an F. Maybe I am a tough grader. But I will say I lived around the corner from this incident that was back when GS was here in his first stint and I'd have given lots of Fs back then too *before* any of the organizations people in this thread are complaining about existed.
Again, that is not to diminish the police overall. But the situation in NB has been perpetually toxic.
The latter is a function of the law, though, which can be easily changed if there were will for it. I am much less sure how you change people not doing their job without canning them.
I have no doubt there are lazy teachers. What I do doubt though is that there are non teachers praising them, saying things like "well they can be recorded by a student anytime, how can they do their job?!" And as for the danger comments, it's probably much safer being a cop in Franklin Lakes than a teacher in Paterson.
All I am saying is...let's maybe raise our standards a little, to like, if shooters are escaping, try to chase them as NJ law permits?
"Let's take the situation mentioned- refusing to chase the guys who did this shooting. As you pointed out, they were legally able to do so, but told at least one person they could not." As long as a department stays within the guidelines set by the state attorney general, I believe each police department can issue their own directives whether to chase or not. The risk of a chase toward any possible harm to citizens factors into the decision. Does anyone really want the police chasing a car of armed suspects through the streets of New Brunswick, especially knowing they already sprayed bullets in one area. You don't want to encourage the perps to shoot at the police following them and you don't want the police shooting back during a chase. It is extremely risky to shoot at a fleeing vehicle because of the deflection of bullets by windshield glass. Discretion is the better part of valor.
The irony is that it's people who don't like police who have pressed for limits on police chases. So now someone who doesn't like police is criticizing them for not chasing!
Know many former LEOs who retired in the last 4-5 years for the very reason that that could not reasonably "do" their jobs because they were handcuffed by the State AG, local prosecutors, mayors, etc supporting the purported "rights" of the criminals. And these were decent LEOs who loved the job, never had any issues or accusations of improper conduct, etc. They just got sick of watching criminals getting to do whatever they want, getting spring multiples times and back out on the streets, while the hammer would get dropped on the police for the slightest perceived infraction. Guys like NIRH celebrate this environment and think it is great.
Know many former LEOs who retired in the last 4-5 years for the very reason that that could not reasonably "do" their jobs because they were handcuffed by the State AG, local prosecutors, mayors, etc supporting the purported "rights" of the criminals. And these were decent LEOs who loved the job, never had any issues or accusations of improper conduct, etc. They just got sick of watching criminals getting to do whatever they want, getting spring multiples times and back out on the streets, while the hammer would get dropped on the police for the slightest perceived infraction. Guys like NIRH celebrate this environment and think it is great.
I'd ask you to name the rights that the AG is enforcing in error but know well, as you do, that that is false.
But you justify things out of intellectual dishonesty to seem balanced. Sad.
Oh- and NJ ranks 47 in violent crime...not sure who is getting away with crimes? Name some names...
Quite possible.
So in other words...it would be the police restricting themselves, and the people saying NJ changed it laws or deflecting to NYC or BLM are absolutely full of it and fabricating...again?
It would be local government restricting police. This is a change in tactics for public safety. The individual policemen don't make the decision on their own. Thus, it is not a matter of them deciding to neglect their duties.
Given his job, he knows, or can locate in seconds, resources indicating the AG or NJ or anyone changed any laws in the way indicated in this thread. But he doesn't want to appear "political" by revealing that fact.
If there is a "no-chase" policy in place, you don't chase. It involves chain-of-command and public safety issues. Do you really want a police chase in a bustling college town and possibly encourage more shots being fired by fleeing felons? Beside bullets flying, why have a vehicle as a speeding out-of-control projectile on the city streets?
I asked if you have proof there is a no chase policy.
It's been proven the posters claiming NJ or the NJ AG has a no chase policy have flat out lied.
It's a yes or no- does NBPD have such a policy? Not if.
"This Policy is intended to guide the circumstances under which officers may engage in vehicular pursuits."
There is your "proof": "may engage" does not mean "must engage".
So they could chase, but didn't?
Glad we agree. They lied when they said the state banned them.
It is useful to look at the limitations on chases in 3.3. Rightly or wrongly, the policy is sufficiently restrictive that it is hard to criticize an urban police officer who decides not to chase\
https://www.nj.gov/oag/force/docs/Vehicular-Pursuit-Policy-Addendum-12.15.20.pdf
I haven't been following the thread. But with respect to police chases, and with consideration of technological advances that make it often quite easy to track people down, I tend to think it's often safer for society as a whole to NOT have a police chase except in the most extreme of situations.
Of course certain situations demand a chase. But many chases that occur are not necessary to protect the public and actually appear to put the public at more risk of harm than not chasing.
Although I haven't looked at the stats recently, it sure seems as though violent police confrontations are increasing in frequency. There appears to be a growing number of low-threat situations where reasonable attempts at deescalation are either skipped, or are poorly executed, or are given up much too quickly. For sure, there has been a long-running militarization of local and state police, both in equipment and training.
Perhaps these situations were always taking place. Could be that the combination of ubiquitous access to cell phone video and viral social media has simply brought it to light.
Thing is, it's not hard to understand why policing has changed over the decades. The New Brunswick police may not be policing like Andy Taylor and Barney Fife, but they're more regularly facing far more dangerous situations than ever occurred in fictitious 1960s Mayberry.
I'm a big fan and supporter of the police (along with all first responders). I have no issue paying them lots and lots, and I understand the challenges that come with the job.
IMO, vigilant oversight, continuous policy improvement, and continuous training are the solution. Done correctly, these things work to protect LEOs along with the public.
Demonization of the police is NOT a solution. Nor is blind support for every police action, no matter how unnecessary, violent or ugly it is.
There is no agreement at all. Your viewpoint fails to acknowledge that police officers need to utilize common sense in tactical issues. When they are correct, no criticism is due. Time to brush up on modern day police procedures if you want a chance to make a credible argument.
LOL at the police haters. Here's what happens when they try to do their jobs near another "local" university.
Should have use the Taser!!
Should have use the Taser!!
UPDATE- 2 of the 4 arrested have already been released and are back on the street. Even with overwhelming evidence of security cameras, cell phone locations, witnesses, the NBPD official stated, "no one wants to go to trial, it will be pleaded down. shooter probably back on street in 5 years", " our system is upside down".
NYPD has a difficult job. But this arrest is the easiest thing they’ll do.
Were the two released because charges against them were dropped or because they were released on their own recognizance pending trial? Keep in mind also that it is the Middlesex County prosecutor, not the NBPD, that determines whether to plea-bargain and how tough to be in the process.
I am not criticizing the police. That NBPD person I spoke with was upset with "the system" that allows this. They said they did their job, investigated and arrested the folks responsible. It's then out of their hands. the quote was, "Our system is upside down" the assumption was that it would get plea bargained down. I don't know all of the details on why two guys released, or what their charges are.
An innocent college student was paralyzed that night and has undergone multiple spinal surgeries. Thankfully, she is expected to recover without permeant paralysis.
The guy is know to be in a gang, randomly fires multiple times at several folks on the street, following an altercation. Perhaps not premeditated, but what should the punishment be? The NBPD person I spoke with figures back on street in 5-7 years after a deal. I guess we should expect the then 27 year old to be rehabilitated and will become a model citizen and respected, productive member of society.
Thanks for the news about the wounded student. Here's hoping for a full recovery.
Am I hearing this right.
A man who discharged a firearm in NB and struck a student is free to walk the streets right now?
-vic
