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OT: Wall Stadium speedway to close next year, replaced by affordable housing, townhouses

Knight Shift

Knight Shift

Legend
May 19, 2011
77,027
72,736
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Jersey Shore
Another piece of shore history gone. Shame.
https://www.app.com/story/news/loca...y-stadium-closing-results-weather/1814369001/

WALL - The checkered flag will wave for the final time at the Wall Stadium speedway next year, track owners announced Wednesday.
The 2020 racing season will be the last for the nearly 70-year-old racetrack, owner Wall Speedway Properties LLC announced on Wednesday. Developer Pulte Homes plans to build nearly 350 homes on the site, which has hosted auto racing in some form since 1950.
"The majority of the sprawling tract, deemed grossly underutilized for decades, consists of giant parking lots
 
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Knight Shift said:
Another piece of shore history gone. Shame.
https://www.app.com/story/news/loca...y-stadium-closing-results-weather/1814369001/

WALL - The checkered flag will wave for the final time at the Wall Stadium speedway next year, track owners announced Wednesday.
The 2020 racing season will be the last for the nearly 70-year-old racetrack, owner Wall Speedway Properties LLC announced on Wednesday. Developer Pulte Homes plans to build nearly 350 homes on the site, which has hosted auto racing in some form since 1950.
"The majority of the sprawling tract, deemed grossly underutilized for decades, consists of giant parking lots
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The COAH housing mandate is a blight on the state. Pave over everything! The special interest group leading that way is funded by.....wait for it.....developers! Wonder why?

The town should fight this and delay it as long as possible. Protect the town.
 
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Your memories of this venue are important and full of nostalgia to many of you but increasing the availability of affordable housing will help a lot of people today and down the road. Wall will fight it for obvious reasons but this piece of real estate is an island unto itself and is cut off from most of the town by routes 195 and 34.
 
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FELONIOUSMONK said:
Your memories of this venue are important and full of nostalgia to many of you but increasing the availability of affordable housing will help a lot of people today and down the road. Wall will fight it for obvious reasons but this piece of real estate is an island unto itself and is cut off from most of the town by routes 195 and 34.
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There is plenty of affordable housing in NJ. Stop paving over the state.
 
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This is a loss to many. Another affordable entertainment option gone for families. Joins Jungle Habitat, Trenton Speedway,Palisades Amusement Park,etc. If the Speedway is going to close down, rip up the pavement and let it turn back into green space. No more condos, apartments,stores, we have more than enough.I am all for a lower population in New Jersey-way too many people for the amount of land. Heck, I will even help people pack.
 
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How many of you that are lamenting the loss of it have been there in the last year? It seem like every time one of these "treasures" are lost people are quick to say how it such a shame it gone but never supported it when it was there. If the track was profitable and people were turning in hoards I am sure it wouldn't be closing.
 
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Been there many times. This is sad, but they’ve tried to do this many times and it’s been shot down. Let’s hope they keep it going, was hoping to take my kids there someday.
 
As of last nights meeting the township has no plans to change the zoning to residential. It is also too dangerous in my opinion as the end of the runway for the airport is right across the street and they do have some decent size jets flying in daily. I grew up right down the street from this place and worked there and the airport when I was a kid. If this happens it will be a sad say in Wall Township History!
 
FELONIOUSMONK said:
Your memories of this venue are important and full of nostalgia to many of you but increasing the availability of affordable housing will help a lot of people today and down the road. Wall will fight it for obvious reasons but this piece of real estate is an island unto itself and is cut off from most of the town by routes 195 and 34.
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In a sane world, that is called "excellent highway access to a noisy racetrack located on the outskirts of town". Would you rather it be located downtown, between a residential and commercial neighborhood, causing huge local traffic tie-ups every weekend?
 
rurichdog said:
Less than 20% of the proposed units will be affordable. Everything else will be market rate.
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That's the proposal. The town will likely want more. My prediction is the track closes permanently, the town and developer can't reach agreement on the number of affordable units and the site sits unused for years to come.
 
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knightfan7 said:
Town has been fighting on several fronts recently. This, the property at the corner of Atlantic Ave and rt 35, and I heard something about a huge residential development.
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Well I think 348 2 & 3 bedroom townhouses meets that description.
 
Anyone think if the residential development goes through the taxes it generates will cover the costs of the infrastructure changes necessary to support it?
 
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knightfan7 said:
What would you suggest be done with the property? Should the owners of the track be forced to keep it open?

I've got it! How about a taxpayer subsidy so that it's worthwhile for the track to continue operation.
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The town should purchase it at FMV. Take control of the land and what happens to it. Cluster housing is bad news. More traffic and higher taxes to all.
 
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Good luck fighting against a COAH project in town that has been deemed not to have met the requirements for the minimum # of required affordable housing units. Allocating about 20% of the overall units sounds about right to keep the developer interested.

For reasons unrelated to this I just sold my home in Cranford and they are undergoing a significant amount of apartment development in town all of which have a COAH component. The town fought a couple and has delayed them but the only thing that seemed to accomplish is to incur legal expense and maybe slight reductions in the density of the projects.
 
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ponyfoot19 said:
Anyone think if the residential development goes through the taxes it generates will cover the costs of the infrastructure changes necessary to support it?
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+1
Residential development NEVER pays for itself, not even close. Here is a simple case study. The best scenario is a large single family home. It generates the most property taxes per family:

Toll Bros 4,000 sq ft home
Property taxes = $15,000
Most of it goes to the schools, but not all, so say $12,000 to the school district
1 school age child on average costs about $20,000 to educate! So even with only 1 child, the taxpayers of the town are already on the hook for $8,000 in new taxes. More children, higher the tax deficit.
Cluster housing is a disaster, high # of units, lower amount of property taxes paid per unit.
The average housing unit generates 1.4-1.8 school age children on average (depending on location and demos). Do the math for 350 cluster units, it's downright scary.
 
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T2Kplus10 said:
+1
Residential development NEVER pays for itself, not even close. Here is a simple case study. The best scenario is a large single family home. It generates the most property taxes per family:

Toll Bros 4,000 sq ft home
Property taxes = $15,000
Most of it goes to the schools, but not all, so say $12,000 to the school district
1 school age child on average costs about $20,000 to educate! So even with only 1 child, the taxpayers of the town are already on the hook for $8,000 in new taxes. More children, higher the tax deficit.
Cluster housing is a disaster, high # of units, lower amount of property taxes paid per unit.
The average housing unit generates 1.4-1.8 school age children on average (depending on location and demos). Do the math for 350 cluster units, it's downright scary.
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Where does a 4,000 sq. ft. home in New Jersey only carry a $15,000. property tax bill? And most towns with 4,000 sq. ft. houses spend less than $20,000. per student, more like 16-18,000. And does the town in question have unused classroom space that will cost little else than a teachers salary to fill.

You may have a point, but to prove it in an individual town would take a lot more analysis.
 
mdk01 said:
Where does a 4,000 sq. ft. home in New Jersey only carry a $15,000. property tax bill? And most towns with 4,000 sq. ft. houses spend less than $20,000. per student, more like 16-18,000. And does the town in question have unused classroom space that will cost little else than a teachers salary to fill.

You may have a point, but to prove it in an individual town would take a lot more analysis.
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Average per student cost in NJ is $20,849, so I'm a little low. You need to focus on averages with this type of case study. Can there be specific short term circumstances, sure, but at the end of the day, regression to the mean wins out.
 
COAH does not = affordable.

What happens is the builder sets aside a number of units as affordable under prior rules - to make up the difference in cost the market units are priced to support the cost.

The rules prior to when Christie effectively killed COAH was one in four houses in a development is required to be designated as affordable.

Currently there are no firm rules under COAH (due to the Christie squash) - but towns are trying to comply with previous rules - that is why Wall wants a higher % of affordable houses.

The free market would make housing realistically MORE affordable - but the insane COAH rules and court rulings have the opposite effect.
 
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RUBigFrank said:
The free market would make housing realistically MORE affordable - but the insane COAH rules and court rulings have the opposite effect.
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Big +1
Market rate developers have hijacked the mandate in order to build more.....wait for it.....market rates units at a high profit point. They don't care about "affordable" units, it's just a means to the end. Over the past 30+ years of this mandate, not many COAH units have been built due to endless Trenton stupidity. If they really wanted affordable housing, let housing be built as per the free market and subsidize those in needed. Pretty simple and much more effective.
 
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T2Kplus10 said:
The average housing unit generates 1.4-1.8 school age children on average
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That seems very high.

In Montgomery Twp, for an example you are familiar with, there are 8062 housing units and 6072 children in the age range of 5 to 19. That is about 0.75 school-aged kids per housing unit. Statewide, it is 0.47 school-aged kids per housing unit.
 
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