Pikiell's 1st mistake?

[Greene Rice FIG]

The last 2 games, at least to me, it is evident that we have a long way to go both in the present and in the future. In the present our best players are either young or flawed. I see many needed rotation pieces (I call win with players) from our underclassmen, but I don't see any "win because" of players.

My biggest concern when looking at the current roster and the recruits from next year is the lack of a future point guard. I can't help but think what would the program look like right now if Pikiell was willing to hit the reset button and start fresh and not go out of their way to keep players on the roster.

Many people call me negative, but i really think I am just realistic. I am seeing threads today saying the same things I have been saying for 2 years. I really like Baker, Eugene, Duke and Issa a lot. They are playing hard and are all potential pieces. I just would feel better knowing there is a star on the horizon and a point guard in the fold. Right now I am struggling to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Monday's are bad but think of it this way. You are halfway to lunch!

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

The last 2 games, at least to me, it is evident that we have a long way to go both in the present and in the future. In the present our best players are either young or flawed. I see many needed rotation pieces (I call win with players) from our underclassmen, but I don't see any "win because" of players.

My biggest concern when looking at the current roster and the recruits from next year is the lack of a future point guard. I can't help but think what would the program look like right now if Pikiell was willing to hit the reset button and start fresh and not go out of their way to keep players on the roster.

Many people call me negative, but i really think I am just realistic. I am seeing threads today saying the same things I have been saying for 2 years. I really like Baker, Eugene, Duke and Issa a lot. They are playing hard and are all potential pieces. I just would feel better knowing there is a star on the horizon and a point guard in the fold. Right now I am struggling to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I really think that it's a matter of the holdover players from the past regime are not "Pike's type of player". Pike's recruits are young and really he has had only one full recruiting cycle. I hope and think Mathis is that "star" player that we so desperately need.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I hope you are right with Mathis and 100% on the full recruiting cycle. I thnik Mathis class is 1st one where he got ample time to compare his class to other schools

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Bullock was Pikiell’s 1st mistake and a doozy. Can’t afford to throw away scholarships like that. Too valuable.

 

[RUChoppin]

I don't think Bullock was a mistake, but a gamble - he was brought on to curry favor with a HS coach and potentially get a bigger fish. That bigger fish didn't pan out, but no telling what that relationship will yield in the future.

The first mistake was Souf Mensah, and that goes along with FIG's comment around a lack of a future PG. Mensah was supposed to be that backup PG and bridge us next year if Sanders were to leave early. So far, he's been a big miss, and really hasn't shown himself capable of handling the point at this level. It's causing additional strain on our trio of guards in terms of minutes, and it's a risk for next year.

 

[MadRU]

Since Earl Duncan left I have been saying we need a top point guard. Is it a coincidence that was our last NCAA Tourney team?

Someone asked how SHU is doing it and RU not (Another thread). Look at the legit point guards SHU has had over a period of time, starting with Sha, Andre Barrett, etc. Compared to RU's PGs. And I am talking legitimate true point guards, not combo guards turned point guard (Which we seem to recruit). IMHO, Geo is not a PG at the B1G level, and I love Geo's game, but not at point.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Bullock was Pikiell’s 1st mistake and a doozy. Can’t afford to throw away scholarships like that. Too valuable.

And Souf was his second one, but at least that is only a 2-year mistake. (But, at the same time Baker and Decoure look like home-run recruting successes thus far).

 

[RUChoppin]

Since Earl Duncan left I have been saying we need a top point guard. Is it a coincidence that was our last NCAA Tourney team?

Someone asked how SHU is doing it and RU not (Another thread). Look at the legit point guards SHU has had over a period of time, starting with Sha, Andre Barrett, etc. Compared to RU's PGs. And I am talking legitimate true point guards, not combo guards turned point guard (Which we seem to recruit). IMHO, Geo is not a PG at the B1G level, and I love Geo's game, but not at point.

More and more, though, the concept of a "true point guard" is going away at the NBA level... so it's also going to start disappearing at the college level. You need a PG who can also score from the outside - the PG spot can't just be a facilitator/distributor/defender anymore, it's expected to bring scoring productivity. The PG position has been morphing into "shorter SG with strong handle and court vision".

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

What I am getting at is would we have a point guard in the fold right now, or at least in 2018-19, if there was an open slot for a PG?

 

[MadRU]

What I am getting at is would we have a point guard in the fold right now, or at least in 2018-19, if there was an open slot for a PG?

The staff did recently offer 2018 PG Diego Willis

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

The Jose Alvarado miss hurts a ton at this point.

 

[MadRU]

More and more, though, the concept of a "true point guard" is going away at the NBA level... so it's also going to start disappearing at the college level. You need a PG who can also score from the outside - the PG spot can't just be a facilitator/distributor/defender anymore, it's expected to bring scoring productivity. The PG position has been morphing into "shorter SG with strong handle and court vision".

I am not saying a PG cannot score/shoot. But when have we had a player with great handle, speed, court awareness/vision, etc. at the 1?

 

[MadRU]

The Jose Alvarado miss hurts a ton at this point.

Agree and I really wanted this signing. He is a PG with toughness. Haven't followed GT this season at all, how is he doing?

 

[RUChoppin]

I am not saying a PG cannot score/shoot. But when have we had a player with great handle, speed, court awareness/vision, etc. at the 1?

Absolutely, but more and more that'll come from a "combo guard" rather than a "true point guard".

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

Agree and I really wanted this signing. He is a PG with toughness. Haven't followed GT this season at all, how is he doing?

Saw he dropped 22 a few days ago, averaging almost 15ppg

 

[RUChoppin]

Agree and I really wanted this signing. He is a PG with toughness. Haven't followed GT this season at all, how is he doing?

Jose Alvarado:
33.4 mpg, 14.6 pts (3P 1.7/5.0 per game, 34.3%), 4.9 rb, 3.9 ast, 2.0 stl, 1.7 TO, 2.9 PF

 

[MadRU]

Absolutely, but more and more that'll come from a "combo guard" rather than a "true point guard".

Just to continue with this some, do you see Geo capable of leading this team as a "1" in the B1G going forward? And again, love Geo's game.

 

[MadRU]

Jose Alvarado:
33.4 mpg, 14.6 pts (3P 1.7/5.0 per game, 34.3%), 4.9 rb, 3.9 ast, 2.0 stl, 1.7 TO, 2.9 PF

Seems like he is off to a very good start for sure.

 

[RUChoppin]

Just to continue with this some, do you see Geo capable of leading this team as a "1" in the B1G going forward? And again, love Geo's game.

He's showed a remarkable amount of poise at the point as a true freshman. As he gets more experience and the game slows down for him, I think he'll see fewer turnovers and "freshman moments". I definitely think he can handle the point... but he can't play 40 min, and if Sanders goes there is no one else on the team right now who can.

He can also be a threat off the ball at SG, though, so having another body who can set him up for shots is also needed.

In two years, when he's a junior, we're going to have a backcourt of:

PG: None
PG/SG: Baker (Jr)
SG: Mathis (So)
SG/WF: Thiam (Sr), Kiss (RS Jr)
WF: Harper (So)

There needs to be another player who can competently handle PG duties (either a PG or PG/SG). We'll have four guys who can play minutes at the 2 (Baker, Mathis, Thiam, Kiss) and three guys who can play at the 3 (Thiam, Kiss, and Harper).... but just one who can play at the 1 (Baker).

 

[zebnatto]

I agree that Bullock was a gamble that didn't pay off. (Why the ell the kid hasn't transferred out, I don't know. Get a free colege education?) Souf was a huge mistake.

A long way to go . . . . to what? Very close to better than a few teams in the league, probably there already. Middle of league and NIT or bubble team, could be a year away. More than that, a ways to go.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Would Alvardo be playing with us if there was no Corey Sanders?

 

[Duff366]

We really could have used Nigel this year for guard depth.. but that is if he were to humbly accept being back up to Geo and Corey and that probably would not have happened..

Hopefully we can get a diamond in the rough or Juco PG for next year. I think Geo is very capable of being a good PG going forward

 

[MadRU]

Would Alvardo be playing with us if there was no Corey Sanders?

Seems like when Kenny Anderson and a few other ex-NYC guards got in his ear, it was GT no matter what.

 

[biazza38]

The Jose Alvarado miss hurts a ton at this point.

Ugh I wanted him. I won’t even relay his stats for you. Yes, that miss hurt. Damn bag man :(

 

[higgins3]

Fine with Baker going forward. He is a bit of a combo guard, and that is the way today's game is trending. Versatile. Diego willis also looks good.

Alverado is doing very well for himself. He is certainly putting CTK on the map.

I am very confident with this team going forward. If the staff can put together a bench five versus a starting five that doesn't miss a beat, you have this kind of lineup.

Baker, Souf
Sanders,Kiss, Mathis,
Thiam, Harper jr,
Eugene, Shaq carter
Doucoure, Johnson.

Sanders will stay, or go overseas and make 60k a year to start and be in the middle of nowhere. I am not sure Sanders is ready for that responsibility, and lack of support. I think he is a great kid, and makes the best decision for himself which is to come back to the Banks, have good models around him, and improve his game. What 19 year old doesn't need a good model?

The staff is on top of things. So far, they are doing very well at recruiting high character kids with basketball skills. Sure, they have made a couple of mistakes, but they are low risk, medium reward.

The improvement of Thiam and Eugene are very promising. In Baker and Doucoure, you have two players that are only going to get better going forward. I do not see a freshman wall for either of them.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Would Alvardo be playing with us if there was no Corey Sanders?

I haven't been sure about Alvarado based on how slight he is, but he is savvy and understands the game.....one thing that is very clear is that he appears to dominate the ball a lot in the couple of GT games I've seen (maybe because of the roster there).

I think the play in this league (B1G) will eventually display that we don't need a dominate PG that is going to be in possession of the ball each time down the court as much as a player that trusts his teammates and moves the ball.

Do I think Diego Willis is as much of an impact player as Alvarado?? I can't make that leap, but someone that saw him 3 weeks ago, pretty much sent me a message that he can play and would be a more advanced shooter than we may be thinking about. With Willis and a grinder like Mathis, we are going to be fine.

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

If Corey leaves for overseas, I think it is a net positive for the team (and this was not my opinion until recently).

I want to get young players as much in-game experience as possible the next couple of years. You can see the confidence and improvement that is being shown more and more with each game from Eugene, Issa, Baker and Duke. The older guys simply haven't stepped up which is the difference right now IMO.

 

[jellyman]

Ugh I wanted him. I won’t even relay his stats for you. Yes, that miss hurt. Damn bag man :(

I actually heard there might have been a "bag man" involved. I play basketball with a guy who is a personal trainer, and a personal basketball coach in NYC, who has worked with Alvarez. He LOVED Alvarez - called him a gym rat, a very hard worker. He also told me that it WAS between RU and G. Tech - and that RU would not "come up with what was needed" for Alvarez ... that it was "not that much."

 

[RUinFla]

Doucore and Omoruyi did OK, and Geo showed some promise. A school in disarray and with terrible ink dating back a decade, the way we were, has to expect a few misses gearing up. Bullock and Mensah. Did you expect the new staff, with little to lure recruits, and getting a late start on 2016 recruiting, to bring in a bunch of 4-stars? Outside of traditional powers, schools often sign who they can get. What percentage of basketball players signed by BC; by Mississippi State are washouts? Because that is where we were last year. What is there about New Brunswick, NJ, other than proximity to NYC to attract kids? So it has to be the program, and when the new staff took over, the program was in shambles and recent history was dark.
TL

 

[RU_DIO]

Did you guys see Souf get stripped while dribbling last night? The refs bailed him out big time with a foul call. So far he doesn't do anything well. You think your point could at least dribble and drive a little if he can't shoot. He dribbles like a high school player. No way should he be stripped so easily.

I think it's time to have Dadika as our 4th guard. This lack of depth at point is hurting us.

 

[higgins3]

If Corey leaves for overseas, I think it is a net positive for the team (and this was not my opinion until recently).

I want to get young players as much in-game experience as possible the next couple of years. You can see the confidence and improvement that is being shown more and more with each game from Eugene, Issa, Baker and Duke. The older guys simply haven't stepped up which is the difference right now IMO.

Sanders still has a ton of room to grow. If he takes the NBA out of his head, he will start to lighten the burden on himself.

Williams has been playing at about 60% or worse for a while now. I am unsure how it goes with Williams going forward. I wish he took time off.

Sanders can be a huge help, but he has to continue growing. Also, just be realistic.

 

[biazza38]

I actually heard there might have been a "bag man" involved. I play basketball with a guy who is a personal trainer, and a personal basketball coach in NYC, who has worked with Alvarez. He LOVED Alvarez - called him a gym rat, a very hard worker. He also told me that it WAS between RU and G. Tech - and that RU would not "come up with what was needed" for Alvarez ... that it was "not that much."

I 100% thought a bag man was involved from the second he went to Georgia tech. This doesn’t surprise me. Good for RU

 

[seels2662]

The last 2 games, at least to me, it is evident that we have a long way to go both in the present and in the future. In the present our best players are either young or flawed. I see many needed rotation pieces (I call win with players) from our underclassmen, but I don't see any "win because" of players.

My biggest concern when looking at the current roster and the recruits from next year is the lack of a future point guard. I can't help but think what would the program look like right now if Pikiell was willing to hit the reset button and start fresh and not go out of their way to keep players on the roster.

Many people call me negative, but i really think I am just realistic. I am seeing threads today saying the same things I have been saying for 2 years. I really like Baker, Eugene, Duke and Issa a lot. They are playing hard and are all potential pieces. I just would feel better knowing there is a star on the horizon and a point guard in the fold. Right now I am struggling to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Fig, was thinking this as well, I think the 2019 recruiting class must be a MONSTER class for the 2020 NCAA tournament wish to come true. We must land the Mulcahys of the world, players that can contribute right away as Freshmen, because that 2019-2020 team will be missing a couple pieces but is very close. It might also be the perfect time to look for a grad transfer there.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Greene

You don't see Baker as a PG?

The kids has the court vision, saavy, and pretty damn good basketball IQ.

The jump shot is there...he needs the S&C to make it happen playing 28-30....And I have total confidence that it happens

Rick says it best...I see we have, longer term, four known legit, big ten pieces...

PG: Baker
SG
SF: Thiam
PF: Onamuyri
C: Dourcoure

I think we add two more for sure in Mathis and Carter. Kiss and Harper could be as well, time will tell

We need ONE more class, the class of 2019 is huge

Need 2-3 more pieces from there, then in year four, we have something

I see the need for one more PF (You know I really like Dixon), one more PG (you know I like Mulchay) and one more true SG.

 

[KnightDC]

The last 2 games, at least to me, it is evident that we have a long way to go both in the present and in the future. In the present our best players are either young or flawed. I see many needed rotation pieces (I call win with players) from our underclassmen, but I don't see any "win because" of players.

My biggest concern when looking at the current roster and the recruits from next year is the lack of a future point guard. I can't help but think what would the program look like right now if Pikiell was willing to hit the reset button and start fresh and not go out of their way to keep players on the roster.

Many people call me negative, but i really think I am just realistic. I am seeing threads today saying the same things I have been saying for 2 years. I really like Baker, Eugene, Duke and Issa a lot. They are playing hard and are all potential pieces. I just would feel better knowing there is a star on the horizon and a point guard in the fold. Right now I am struggling to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

dont disagree re the need for a PG - a break down the D and dish PG.

But given where RU was when Pike took over how can you expect to find one? Need to demonstrate momentum and that RU can have success. And it worked. Would RU have got Mathis if the 2016 record was Jordanesque?

Yes still a lot of work to do, and the need for a legit PG is glaring. It takes time to build up the brand and retool the roster. Hard to be patient after 25 years in the wilderness. But. Be. Patient. Pikiell is the right guy and on the right track.

and Sure Mensah may be a bust. But again. What were options for end of bench PG? Its not like Pike turned away 4 star PGs because Mensah was committed.

 

[kcg88]

A grad transfer is going to be our best bet. Diego Willis looks like an "under-the-radar" guy that would take a year or two to develop into a solid contributor.

I know it can be a bad look to run guys off the team, but Mensah and Bullock aren't D1 players, certainly not Big Ten players. That's two scholarships right there.

Anyway, we're kind of hamstrung with this roster right now. Bullock, Kiss, Johnson are three scholarships we're getting nothing from. Mensah is a virtual zero. Doorson and Sa combine to give us the value of one guy. So that's six scholarships we're not getting great value from. It may have been a mistake to take both a sit-out transfer (especially one with pedestrian MAAC numbers) and a guy who needs to redshirt.

Everyone wonders how other teams turn it around so quickly, and this is how: coaches get guys who can't cut it off the roster and replace them with guys who can. It might not be the best situation for the kids but it's reality. If Bullock is back next year then it's going to start to make me worry that Pikiell is too nice a guy, to be blunt about it.

 

[Goo]

Agree that in the NBA, Point Guards are a dying breed. GM's will be looking for players like Donovan Mitchell (Louisville) from the Utah Jazz.

 

[kcg88]

To expand on my transfer point, Minnesota two years ago had already gotten some good recruits. Nate Mason was a sophomore and Jordan Murphy and Dupree McBrayer were freshmen. But... junior Charles Buggs transferred to USC where he barely played during his senior year. Freshman Kevin Dorsey transferred out after the 2015-16 season (to Colorado State, from which he's announced another transfer). Ahmad Gilbert came back for the 2016-17 season then transferred to Rider.

They had Reggie Lynch as a sit-out transfer during that 15-16 year after he was the top shotblocker in the country at Illinois State. They brought in Akeem Springs from UW-Milwaukee as a grad transfer last year and he shot 38% from 3. And Pitino got commitments from Eric Curry and Amir Coffey, a pair of four star guys (they also got 3-star Michael Hurt who can play a bit, but that one was more about positioning themselves to get his brother who is a 5-star)

That's how they got to the tournament last year and that's the recipe for Rutgers to follow. Purge the roster of guys who are overmatched at this level, find transfers like Spring and Lynch (Springs is probably what Kiss' ceiling looks like... getting somebody like Lynch would be incredible), and recruit better players.

 

[rucoe89]

Bullock was Pikiell’s 1st mistake and a doozy. Can’t afford to throw away scholarships like that. Too valuable.

And Souf was his second one, but at least that is only a 2-year mistake. (But, at the same time Baker and Decoure look like home-run recruting successes thus far).

That is batting .667 so far. Not bad for a program left for dead 2 years ago.