Play RU Hoops GM

[lion1983]

Let's everyone play RU hoops GM ... what would be your strategy. Obviously, some assumptions have to be made. Let us assume, for this discussion, that RU has $4.5 million in NIL + Revenue sharing - which does NOT include the Vegas showcase ($1 million - but spread amongst the players on the roster at the time): $3 million in revenue sharing and $1.5 million in NIL.

After retention and frosh $$ spent (and how much can that really be given the players they are trying to retain and the 4 frosh? Gotta be less than $1 million total, no?), RU should have at least $3 million, maybe $3.5 million.

1) You have 4 retained players, 4 frosh coming in, for 8 players as a start of the roster.

2) Spend $3 million on 3 players: 1 rim-protecting/defensive/rebounding center, 1 2G who can score, shoot the 3 and defend and one WF with length who can score, shoot from 3 and defend.

3) Then spend $250K to $500K (if that is what is left) on 1-2 12-15 minute reserve players, specialists - maybe 1 defensive specialist and 1 off-the-bench scoring spark specialist.

Gee ... maybe I should be the GM?

 

[bitnez]

Buy two $1.5 million players (one big, one scorer), pay the existing 4 and freshmen $400-500k, and then find some old hungry (and angry) dogs who didn’t get paid in the portal and split up the remaining $500-600k among them.

 

[bitnez]

One other thing, though, given the state of the program RU would probably have to overpay for desired talent.

 

[needmorecowbell]

It’s sounds like a good big man is $1.5m and up. On top of that, Rutgers is competing with a lot more schools now.

 

[seansherm]

If RU has between $4.5 and $5M in total for hoops, I think they need to set a salary structure and stay within it. Something like, the below that has a 13 man roster around $4.5M, but spreads the $ around the positions

C 1.25
WF 850
WF 500
G 850
G 500

G 400
G 200
WF 400
WF 200
C 400

11 100
12 100
13 50

 

[RRRRUUUU]

let’s assume your premise 3mm after retention / freshman.

I would value projected minutes played over depth. While depth is important, it’s really depth vs replacement valu - with the replacement value being the frosh/ogbole. So it’s the drop off that will be most important. The biggest drop off in production is center, followed by someone that can shoot (but play respectable defense).

1. Jmike/lino
2. 1.0 mil sharp shooter
3. 0.5 mil defensive guy that doesn’t have scoring stats
4. Grant
5. 1.5 mil center

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I am a HUGE believer in a shot blocking 5. I think it was the primary reason for the program's success.

With that being said.....the price tags of that type of C is too high given the price (supply/demand) and the fact that the volatility at that position is probably the highest once you get past the top X% (10-15%) of players at the 5.

You hope (hope isn't normally a good strategy) that Ogbole outperforms expectations and play guys like Grant and Dortch as undersized 5s. Take the extra money and fill the other positions.

Also if you think Lino Mark could be ready as a 25 MPG PG and you have Davis you stay completely away from PG no matter what.

 

[RRRRUUUU]

I am a HUGE believer in a shot blocking 5. I think it was the primary reason for the program's success.

With that being said.....the price tags of that type of C is too high given the price (supply/demand) and the fact that the volatility at that position is probably the highest once you get past the top X% (10-15%) of players at the 5.

You hope (hope isn't normally a good strategy) that Ogbole outperforms expectations and play guys like Grant and Dortch as undersized 5s. Take the extra money and fill the other positions.

Also if you think Lino Mark could be ready as a 25 MPG PG and you have Davis you stay completely away from PG no matter what.

Respectfully disagree.

It’s like fantasy football, there’s the biggest drop off for RBs and WRs when look at top peformers vs replacement value. There’s the least drop off for QBs. So even though it may feel like you’re overpaying at the top for RBs:WRs, it’s worth it because of the gap to the alternative (replacement value).

So for us that would be at center, because the drop off is huge and potentially season destroying. Sure maybe you get lucky finding a needle in the haystack but can’t bank on that, in my opinion.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I am a HUGE believer in a shot blocking 5. I think it was the primary reason for the program's success.

With that being said.....the price tags of that type of C is too high given the price (supply/demand) and the fact that the volatility at that position is probably the highest once you get past the top X% (10-15%) of players at the 5.

You hope (hope isn't normally a good strategy) that Ogbole outperforms expectations and play guys like Grant and Dortch as undersized 5s. Take the extra money and fill the other positions.

Also if you think Lino Mark could be ready as a 25 MPG PG and you have Davis you stay completely away from PG no matter what.

Dylan Grant is 6-7. He’s not playing center. Dortch has quiet potential with a year in the weight room to play some minutes there. Regardless - I disagree if your saying we shouldn’t put money towards that position. I think we should spend $1.5 M on the best center we can get. Or let’s call it “post player”. Ogbole is an adequate back up BIG. I don’t know what the market is for that role, but I’m sure it’s not low. Whatever market is, we’re going to have to give that to Ogbole because we’re not going to be able to afford 2 new post players with experience. Is it 300K? Less? More? I have no idea.

The more I think about it, from a strategic perspective, we probably have to slightly overpay to keep J Mike here. It’s actually pretty important to keep him here and name him team captain. To be effective, Pike’s system needs some leadership and he’s the best candidate by far to assume this role. He’s worth significantly more to us than NJIT’s Francis and Pike better recognize that.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

In fantasy football you have to fill spots. Here you don't have to play a C.

I see this like the catcher position in baseball or TE in football.

You either pay for 1 of the top 2 (10% of the position) or say F it I'll fill the position with a $1 player.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Dylan Grant is 6-7. He’s not playing center. Dortch has quiet potential with a year in the weight room.

The more I think about it, from a strategic perspective, we probably have to slightly overpay to keep J Mike here. It’s actually pretty important to keep him here and name him team captain. To be effective, Pike’s system needs some leadership and he’s the best candidate by far to assume this role.

Are you willing to invest 20% of your budget on Shaq Doorson?

Who would you rather be your defensive 5......Dylan Grant or Lathan Somerville?

 

[Jerseylegends]

I am a HUGE believer in a shot blocking 5. I think it was the primary reason for the program's success.

With that being said.....the price tags of that type of C is too high given the price (supply/demand) and the fact that the volatility at that position is probably the highest once you get past the top X% (10-15%) of players at the 5.

You hope (hope isn't normally a good strategy) that Ogbole outperforms expectations and play guys like Grant and Dortch as undersized 5s. Take the extra money and fill the other positions.

Also if you think Lino Mark could be ready as a 25 MPG PG and you have Davis you stay completely away from PG no matter what.

Lino mark looks like he's ready to you guys? I watched a shortened version of his teams game against AJ dybanstas team (this years no. 1 prospect) and he didn't look ready at all.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Are you willing to invest 20% of your budget on Shaq Doorson?

Do you really think the market someone with Shaq’s rising senior profile is 800k+? He put up 1.8 points and 2.9 rebounds on 12 mpg for a a bad 15-19 Rutgers team. I’d think (or at least hope) the market for that would still be significantly less than 500K. Ogbole gave us 3.1 points and 3.7 rebounds on 13.2 minutes. I’m thinking that’s like a 300k guy?

 

[Jerseylegends]

Lino mark looks like he's ready to you guys? I watched a shortened version of his teams game against AJ dybanstas team (this years no. 1 prospect) and he didn't look ready at all.

Powers looks like he will be good though and the to 6'8" guys provide some athleticism and defensive potential have to see them on this level to know if they can score or not .

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Lino mark looks like he's ready to you guys? I watched a shortened version of his teams game against AJ dybanstas team (this years no. 1 prospect) and he didn't look ready at all.

uh oh.....he is a fictional character to me until he plays games. That isn't good.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Lino mark looks like he's ready to you guys? I watched a shortened version of his teams game against AJ dybanstas team (this years no. 1 prospect) and he didn't look ready at all.

No - but I don’t feel that awful about naming J Mike captain and starting PG with a plan to focus on bringing in better players around him for other positions and hoping Lino is good enough to back him up. I’d probably aim for combo guards who can handle the ball.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Powers looks like he will be good though and the to 6'8" guys provide some athleticism and defensive potential have to see them on this level to know if they can score or not .

You think Powers is going to be good? Wow. The scouting report I saw says he’s a project on D. I’m not expecting him to see much time at all. He’s the frosh I’m least excited about.

Nwuli has by far the most potential to come in and be an impact player off the bat. IMO

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Do you really think the market someone with Shaq’s rising senior profile is 800k+? He put up 1.8 points and 2.9 rebounds on 12 mpg for a a bad 15-19 Rutgers team. I’d think (or at least hope) the market for that would still be significantly less than 500K. Ogbole gave us 3.1 points and 3.7 rebounds on 13.2 minutes. I’m thinking that’s like a 300k guy?

There aren't a ton of 6'10''+ shot blocking 5 that have any coordination and tons of schools with money. I am guessing YES.

 

[Jerseylegends]

You think Powers is going to be good? Wow. The scouting report I saw says he’s a project on D. I’m not expecting him to see much time at all. He’s the frosh I’m least excited about.

Yeah I'm just going off of YouTube clips, all speculation..

 

[RULoyal]

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yeah I'm just going off of YouTube clips, all speculation..

Read the scouting blurbs. It’ll be shocking if Powers logs any time as a frosh in Pike’s system. You can’t go by those clips. He’s a good shooter, but right now, not able to do much else. The teams your seeing him make shots against likely don’t have many D1 players on them either. Or it’s AAU ball where there’s little to no D.

 

[gigantor1024]

College sports are the dumbest thing in the world now. This is so ****ing stupid

 

[RRRRUUUU]

In fantasy football you have to fill spots. Here you don't have to play a C.

I see this like the catcher position in baseball or TE in football.

You either pay for 1 of the top 2 (10% of the position) or say F it I'll fill the position with a $1 player.

Fair point but what’s the goal? Is it to be middle of the pack big ten team? If so, your strategy makes sense. If it’s to compete for a big ten title or go deep in the tourney, I don’t see how that works.

Your strategy definately has a higher floor (less chance of a complete flop), but also much lower ceiling.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

There aren't a ton of 6'10''+ shot blocking 5 that have any coordination and tons of schools with money. I am guessing YES.

I don’t know - that seems like a stretch to me. He only blocked 0.6 shots that season. Duke actually put up better numbers than him that year and logged more minutes.

What do you think the market is for Ogbole right now? To you and I it seems crazy that Washington’s handing Lathan a million, but they must see value in the potential 14 ppg he can offer - there are probably a lot of teams that will value a kid listed at 6-10 who can score. But what about the centers who don’t put up many points and only play 10-14 minutes on weak teams. Are all of them getting thick checks? I’m thinking they probably aren’t. Maybe I’m just naive. I honestly have no idea.

If we could pay Shaq Doorson and Ogbole 400K each to be our centers I would sign on the line for it. But maybe we can’t. Maybe the Kentucky types are going to hand out $1M+ to third strings just in case of an injury. I really don’t have any sense of where things stand.

 

[rubigtimenow]

Let's everyone play RU hoops GM ... what would be your strategy. Obviously, some assumptions have to be made. Let us assume, for this discussion, that RU has $4.5 million in NIL + Revenue sharing - which does NOT include the Vegas showcase ($1 million - but spread amongst the players on the roster at the time): $3 million in revenue sharing and $1.5 million in NIL.

After retention and frosh $$ spent (and how much can that really be given the players they are trying to retain and the 4 frosh? Gotta be less than $1 million total, no?), RU should have at least $3 million, maybe $3.5 million.

1) You have 4 retained players, 4 frosh coming in, for 8 players as a start of the roster.

2) Spend $3 million on 3 players: 1 rim-protecting/defensive/rebounding center, 1 2G who can score, shoot the 3 and defend and one WF with length who can score, shoot from 3 and defend.

3) Then spend $250K to $500K (if that is what is left) on 1-2 12-15 minute reserve players, specialists - maybe 1 defensive specialist and 1 off-the-bench scoring spark specialist.

Gee ... maybe I should be the GM?

Before reading your post and the rest of the thread, I was thinking almost in line with what you have in #2.
A. 2.5 to 3 million on center + SG. Say, 1.7 + 800k or 2 million + 1 million?
That was assuming we have about 5 million to play with. (3 million revenue sharing + 1 million Vegas (I realize this can’t be paid until after Vegas) + 1 million in NIL).

Other thoughts:
- We NEED 2 legit starters that can lead/anchor this team and based on the current roster composition, and Pike’s philosophy, I think Center and SG are the 2 spots where these people fit in.
- Hmmm, the 4 returning and the 4 freshmen, I think could be 1 million but could be more like 1.3 million.
- The way I see it is we have Grant and Jamichael that fit in our top 8 players.
- Ogbole as our #9 in the rotation.
- I grab 2 starters that I mentioned.
- Dortch + the 4 freshmen, at least 1 needs to be top 8, probably 2 of them.
- I use the rest of the money to fill out the roster.

 

[ancienthooper]

No - but I don’t feel that awful about naming J Mike captain and starting PG with a plan to focus on bringing in better players around him for other positions and hoping Lino is good enough to back him up. I’d probably aim for combo guards who can handle the ball.

I don’t have an issue with JMike, and hope he stays. But not sure I understand how it became so important to name him captain and starting PG…and better not pay Francis more. I saw NJIT play several times and the kid can play. Is he better than JMike? I don’t know, he’s different. But if you put JMike on NJIT I doubt he’d get 19 ppg. It would be good to have both, and if the cost for Francis winds up being a few sheckles more than JMike, so be it. Fair? Maybe not. Welcome to the business world.

 

[RUJMM78]

This whole exercise giving out large sums of money to some players who really don't belong in the B1G Ten makes no sense. Rutgers is now a bottom tier basketball program that needs getting better talent from the transfer portal to have any chance for a winning season.Just filling vacant scholarships from MAC level schools isn't going to achieve the desired outcome.Rutgers loss 85 % of last seasons scoring on a team with a losing record.I guess the plan is to win games scoring 65 points instead of 76 points.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I don’t have an issue with JMike, and hope he stays. But not sure I understand how it became so important to name him captain and starting PG…and better not pay Francis more. I saw NJIT play several times and the kid can play. Is he better than JMike? I don’t know, he’s different. But if you put JMike on NJIT I doubt he’d get 19 ppg. It would be good to have both, and if the cost for Francis winds up being a few sheckles more than JMike, so be it. Fair? Maybe not. Welcome to the business world.

J-Mike is a PG who would be a returning junior who played +17 mpg for us in 2 consecutive seasons. That makes him the best, and pretty much only candidate for a team captain without the designation being a complete joke.

NJIT was a really bad team. Scoring 19 for them means literally nothing. You don’t pay this kid more money than J-Mike because if you do J-Mike is gone. And that’s a stupid trade to make. At least you know what your getting in J-Mike. You have no idea if Francis will even be playable at the BIG level.

 

[jerzeyguy]

Its like the nfl draft. Doesn't matter what you think. The guys getting payed the big bucks - will mess it up

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Its like the nfl draft. Doesn't matter what you think. The guys getting payed the big bucks - will mess it up

Exactly. But the thing is - you can get pissed off if you see a repeat of a pattern that has historically burned you.

Jordan Dercack actually played for a good low-major that won +20 games. And he’s listed at 6-6. He still didn’t cut it at the high major level. So as I said - can’t get too mad about certain things that may be outside our control, but in the event we pay this 6 foot (listed) NJIT kid and then our only incumbent guard and rising junior PG picks up and walks Pike and his staff are 1000 percent to blame.

I want to know why we are focused on tiny guards who couldn’t conceivably play with J Mike or Lino. We don’t have much money so why aren’t we shopping for the best 6-5ish SG we can find - thrasher style or shooter - I don’t care. Just 2 way player. And of course, an established post player. Those 2 positions are what we need most.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Fair point but what’s the goal? Is it to be middle of the pack big ten team? If so, your strategy makes sense. If it’s to compete for a big ten title or go deep in the tourney, I don’t see how that works.

Your strategy definately has a higher floor (less chance of a complete flop), but also much lower ceiling.

YES

 

[RRRRUUUU]

YES

Not for me. You play to win the game. I want to feel like we can beat anyone on a given day. I felt that way about our Covid team. They may have been a 9 seed but I thought we had a chance vs anyone. We don’t have a team like that with no real big man.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Not for me. You play to win the game. I want to feel like we can beat anyone on a given day. I felt that way about our Covid team. They may have been a 9 seed but I thought we had a chance vs anyone. We don’t have a team like that with no real big man.

Don't take this the wrong way!

WAKE UP and be real. Things have changed completely. If you are buying a house and have a $500,000 budget and are looking in an area where the home you want is $1,000,000 you aren't going to will your way in to finding the right house in that town for $500,000. Houses were $500,000 5 years ago, but they aren't now.

Time to adapt and change course and expectations.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Not for me. You play to win the game. I want to feel like we can beat anyone on a given day. I felt that way about our Covid team. They may have been a 9 seed but I thought we had a chance vs anyone. We don’t have a team like that with no real big man.

You also have to be realistic though in terms of our starting point right now. We’re operating on limited resources and we don’t really know what true market value is for the positions we are after. Market value is dictated by supply and demand. What Green is saying is that if the reality of the market is that Kansas and Kentucky have NIL resources to pay a center over $1M to sit on their bench as 3rd strings “just in case”, we probably shouldn’t go after one because outbidding a blue blood for their third string probably isn’t going to be worth $1.2M for us.

 

[NickRU714]

Respectfully disagree.

It’s like fantasy football, there’s the biggest drop off for RBs and WRs when look at top peformers vs replacement value. There’s the least drop off for QBs. So even though it may feel like you’re overpaying at the top for RBs:WRs, it’s worth it because of the gap to the alternative (replacement value).

So for us that would be at center, because the drop off is huge and potentially season destroying. Sure maybe you get lucky finding a needle in the haystack but can’t bank on that, in my opinion.

Except fantasy football you all have the same budget.

If others have $200, spending $70 on a top RB makes sense.
If I only have $100, spending the same $70 on a top RB doesn't make sense.

 

[Jerseylegends]

uh oh.....he is a fictional character to me until he plays games. That isn't good.

Maybe he was pressing a bit because dybansta was on the other team and they were considered to be much better than his squad, but it just seems like he's forcing things and makes bad decisions..he still looks good but IDK about on the big ten level his freshman year..

 

[seansherm]

Are you willing to invest 20% of your budget on Shaq Doorson?

Who would you rather be your defensive 5......Dylan Grant or Lathan Somerville?

Of those two? Sommerville. Grant is as much a 3 as he is a 4, not a 5 in any world.

 

[Jerseylegends]

Read the scouting blurbs. It’ll be shocking if Powers logs any time as a frosh in Pike’s system. You can’t go by those clips. He’s a good shooter, but right now, not able to do much else. The teams your seeing him make shots against likely don’t have many D1 players on them either. Or it’s AAU ball where there’s little to no D.

I guess I just like that he looks under control and looks smooth when he shoots. Can score in multiple ways, i can't really tell anything about his defense here but in my experience it's much easier to be an off the ball wing than a pg. Decision making is a big part of being a pg..powers is no. 0

 

[seansherm]

Lino mark looks like he's ready to you guys? I watched a shortened version of his teams game against AJ dybanstas team (this years no. 1 prospect) and he didn't look ready at all.

Didn't he play on the same AAU team as Dybantsa? Mark wasn't a starter on it. He'll be ok for back up pg minutes to start, I think. Looks decently put together, and doesn't force things.

 

[Jerseylegends]

Didn't he play on the same AAU team as Dybantsa? Mark wasn't a starter on it. He'll be ok for back up pg minutes to start, I think. Looks decently put together, and doesn't force things.

Solid build but idk about doesn't force things. I'm basing this on the one shortened game clip I shared above so that was probably just a bad game. Looks fast and quick with the ball out there for sure.