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Princeton Grad Student F Zach Martini Visiting Tomorrow

I'll trust your judgment if you've seen more than this highlight tape, but wasn't Martini the guy who basically made Cliff invisible in our game? I mean, I know Cliff can be easy to defend at times, but despite the athletic advantage Cliff had, I think Martini put a body on him and kept him off the blocks. That said, I'm not sure about Martini defending the perimeter.

That aside, I'm not sure we're in a position to get anybody better with our NIL situation -- we need to allocate "more" funds towards a starting center than this 4 spot -- and with not a TON of shots available (+-- 8). And with the kid growing up in New Jersey as a Rutgers fan, I feel like this is a "bird in the hand" type of situation.
He was playing small ball 5 at Princeton but he will be a 4 at Rutgers (have to assume at least)

I have concerns with him guarding on the perimeter

Agreed a legit 5 is more important so if we have to go with Martini to be able to afford Amari then I'm OK with it. In theory, I like Martini more as a depth piece than starter though

Also a lot of talk about pushing the pace and running with Dylan and Ace next year. Martini isn't built for that
 
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We need between 3-5 guys from the portal, depending on what happens with Gaven and Oscar. If we only need 3 guys, then I'm OK with Martini being the 3rd guy. But Pike needs to do better with options 1 & 2.
I thought Oskar was out of here? I know nothing official announced yet but a chance he’s coming back? I want as many new pieces out of portal as possible so I hope he’s not returning.
 
We shot 28.7% from three-point range this year, which was 350th out of 362 teams in D1, and people are looking down their noses at a guy who shot 38.5% on pretty high volume (60-156) from 3-point range?

We need shooters, people, and this is a perfect "fit" for our team next year as a 3rd or 4th option when on the floor.
I hear ya’ man…..shooting and offense was horrific last year, we try and go get some new guys and people have complaints and they revert back to defense. We have focused solely on defense in recent years with Pike, it’s time to upgrade the offense as we all saw how bad it was last year. Might we suffer a trade off and the defense is a little worse next year? Possibly, but overall the trade off of having an improved offense with upgraded shooting to go with a lesser defense should make them a better overall team. I don’t think our defense will drop to #350, maybe we’ won’t be top 5 either, but I can live with a reasonable drop if the offense has a great improvement.
 
I thought Oskar was out of here? I know nothing official announced yet but a chance he’s coming back? I want as many new pieces out of portal as possible so I hope he’s not returning.
If Oskar gets seven pounds thicker he may be able to play a little 5 in a small ball lineup. He’s still the best hope for 9 points in three possessions.
 
I'll trust your judgment if you've seen more than this highlight tape, but wasn't Martini the guy who basically made Cliff invisible in our game? I mean, I know Cliff can be easy to defend at times, but despite the athletic advantage Cliff had, I think Martini put a body on him and kept him off the blocks. That said, I'm not sure about Martini defending the perimeter.

That aside, I'm not sure we're in a position to get anybody better with our NIL situation -- we need to allocate "more" funds towards a starting center than this 4 spot -- and with not a TON of shots available (+-- 8). And with the kid growing up in New Jersey as a Rutgers fan, I feel like this is a "bird in the hand" type of situation.
Don't remember which of them was guarding cliff but it was the other forward Caden pierce that grabbed 15 boards that game. I confused him and martini as well..
 
I'd start watching NASCAR

steering eric cartman GIF by South Park
 
It’s not weight as much as its aggressiveness and toughness, and Oskar has neither. That has mistake written all over it. Remember Reiber…softer than cotton candy. Oskar not much tougher.
 
It’s not weight as much as its aggressiveness and toughness, and Oskar has neither. That has mistake written all over it. Remember Reiber…softer than cotton candy. Oskar not much tougher.
Just checked and the Big O is listed at only 220 while Martini is listed at 235 (and Dino Martino-for-Three-Oh looks to be every bit of that).
 
If Oskar gets seven pounds thicker he may be able to play a little 5 in a small ball lineup. He’s still the best hope for 9 points in three possessions.
Oskar?!?! Let’s wish him the best, have him move on to whatever is next for him and get some shooting in the portal, we already look pretty good with landing Martini. Let’s get another piece who can shoot, we don’t want to be relying on and playing the Oskar’s of the world next year. Time to move on from that, onward and upward. We have purged much of last year’s roster for a reason and that’s a good thing.
 
Oskar?!?! Let’s wish him the best, have him move on to whatever is next for him and get some shooting in the portal, we already look pretty good with landing Martini. Let’s get another piece who can shoot, we don’t want to be relying on and playing the Oskar’s of the world next year. Time to move on from that, onward and upward. We have purged much of last year’s roster for a reason and that’s a good thing.
Even if we land Martini, we have 2 more spots to fill in addition and possibly another one if Gavin bails. If we land Martini and two other impact players, do you really think we’re going to secure a 4th portal guy who will be good enough to contribute? Seems very doubtful to me.
 
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Just checked and the Big O is listed at only 220 while Martini is listed at 235 (and Dino Martino-for-Three-Oh looks to be every bit of that).
Ain't no way Ogbole weighs only 220. Absurd. And roster stats are notoriously fudged. Cliff would need to stand on two phone books to be 6'11".

Anyhow, once more weight doesn't matter to rebounding very much. Toughness and aggression does, and obviously height.
 
Ain't no way Ogbole weighs only 220. Absurd. And roster stats are notoriously fudged. Cliff would need to stand on two phone books to be 6'11".

Anyhow, once more weight doesn't matter to rebounding very much. Toughness and aggression does, and obviously height.
Oskar…sorry should have clarified.🤷‍♂️😂 Oskar is the Big O because he could drop a triple double at any time…(points, 3pointers made, 3 pointers attempted).
Ogbole is a grown-arse man and I wouldn’t be surprised if Ogbole is now actually bigger than his ESPN-listed 260.
 
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I don’t see how he doesn’t land here. He grew up going to the RAC and gets to be part of what will be the most exciting season in nearly half a century. Come for the party, stay for the run!

I also love the idea of pairing the one and done talent with grown men Ivy League graduates.

Add Allocco and Amari Williams, and another hooper (bye palmquist), Gavin, Lathan, Dortch, Grant

That’s a hell of a team on paper
 
I don’t see how he doesn’t land here. He grew up going to the RAC and gets to be part of what will be the most exciting season in nearly half a century. Come for the party, stay for the run!

I also love the idea of pairing the one and done talent with grown men Ivy League graduates.

Add Allocco and Amari Williams, and another hooper (bye palmquist), Gavin, Lathan, Dortch, Grant

That’s a hell of a team on paper

This would be a nice pipe dream, but it doesn’t seem very likely Gavin would stick around to compete for PT if we manage to land a proven stud shooter like Allocco. Just not enough minutes to go around.
 
I don’t see how he doesn’t land here. He grew up going to the RAC and gets to be part of what will be the most exciting season in nearly half a century. Come for the party, stay for the run!

I also love the idea of pairing the one and done talent with grown men Ivy League graduates.

Add Allocco and Amari Williams, and another hooper (bye palmquist), Gavin, Lathan, Dortch, Grant

That’s a hell of a team on paper

That would be a hell of a team:
Harper
Allocco
J. Williams
Bailey
A. Williams

With Griffiths, Sommerville, Davis, and Martini coming off the bench and Dortch/Grant working in time to be more significant contributors as sophomores.
 
This would be a nice pipe dream, but it doesn’t seem very likely Gavin would stick around to compete for PT if we manage to land a proven stud shooter like Allocco. Just not enough minutes to go around.
This is interesting. Do we prefer GG for 3 years or Allocco for 1? I prefer GG for 3 because his difficulty on O was mostly due to poor guard play.
 
Even if we land Martini, we have 2 more spots to fill in addition and possibly another one if Gavin bails. If we land Martini and two other impact players, do you really think we’re going to secure a 4th portal guy who will be good enough to contribute? Seems very doubtful to me.
Possibly, maybe he doesn’t have to be great, but how about he’s just better than Oskar. That’s not a crazy ask, let’s stop acting like Oskar and Ogbole are some good or valued pieces on the roster. Neither one is very good. If we can bring in someone better than Oskar (I didn’t say a star player, I didn’t say a starter, I only said someone better than Oskar) than by all means please do so.
 
This is interesting. Do we prefer GG for 3 years or Allocco for 1? I prefer GG for 3 because his difficulty on O was mostly due to poor guard play.

If securing two local NJ veteran super senior teammate starters from Princeton is in the cards for next year and one of them is a shooter like Allocco it’s not even debatable. Backing off to maintain Gavin would in that hypothetical case would be like choosing to hit on a blackjack hand of 20. Securing Allocco and Martini as a pair along with a starting center is the home run scenerio for us. No question there.

I’d prefer we put together the best possible roster for next year and worry about the rest later.

This for sure. But in the scenerio presented, it’d be more than just about reeling in the best transfer players. There’s the chemistry factor - taking a pair of NJ starting super seniors who didn’t abandon their team for NIL or more PT (Princeton just doesn’t allow 5th year kids). Also wouldn’t be the worst thing long term to develop a 5th year Princeton to RU pipeline -in the New World, the Ivy’s will likely be among the few schools that see players stick around for education, because, you know, education matters at the Ivy’s.
 
Am interesting stat would be, how many Princeton graduates attend Rutgers for graduate school
 
If securing two local NJ veteran super senior teammate starters from Princeton is in the cards for next year and one of them is a shooter like Allocco it’s not even debatable. Backing off to maintain Gavin would in that hypothetical case would be like choosing to hit on a blackjack hand of 20. Securing Allocco and Martini as a pair along with a starting center is the home run scenerio for us. No question there.



This for sure. But in the scenerio presented, it’d be more than just about reeling in the best transfer players. There’s the chemistry factor - taking a pair of NJ starting super seniors who didn’t abandon their team for NIL or more PT (Princeton just doesn’t allow 5th year kids). Also wouldn’t be the worst thing long term to develop a 5th year Princeton to RU pipeline -in the New World, the Ivy’s will likely be among the few schools that see players stick around for education, because, you know, education matters at the Ivy’s.
Isn't this the end of 5th year seniors? Thought they only got that because of the free covid year.
 
Isn't this the end of 5th year seniors? Thought they only got that because of the free covid year.
It is the end of 5th year Covid situations but is not the end of graduate transfers due to early completion of undergrad degree or redshirt (injury or other).
 
Oskar…sorry should have clarified.🤷‍♂️😂 Oskar is the Big O because he could drop a triple double at any time…(points, 3pointers made, 3 pointers attempted).
Ogbole is a grown-arse man and I wouldn’t be surprised if Ogbole is now actually bigger than his ESPN-listed 260.
Ogbole weights are all over the place.

His Rutgers bio lists him at both 260 and 242. Same bio, weights different by 18 pounds.

 
If securing two local NJ veteran super senior teammate starters from Princeton is in the cards for next year and one of them is a shooter like Allocco it’s not even debatable. Backing off to maintain Gavin would in that hypothetical case would be like choosing to hit on a blackjack hand of 20. Securing Allocco and Martini as a pair along with a starting center is the home run scenerio for us. No question there.



This for sure. But in the scenerio presented, it’d be more than just about reeling in the best transfer players. There’s the chemistry factor - taking a pair of NJ starting super seniors who didn’t abandon their team for NIL or more PT (Princeton just doesn’t allow 5th year kids). Also wouldn’t be the worst thing long term to develop a 5th year Princeton to RU pipeline -in the New World, the Ivy’s will likely be among the few schools that see players stick around for education, because, you know, education matters at the Ivy’s.
A pipeline will never be a thing due to NIL and varying opportunities across the country every year. i guess I agree with getting better players each year and not worrying much about the long term, but I remain convinced that our guard play hindered GG immeasurably. Would Allocco have fared much better ? I doubt it.

Patrick Mahomes isn't Patrick Mahomes if on the Jets.
 
A pipeline will never be a thing due to NIL and varying opportunities across the country every year. i guess I agree with getting better players each year and not worrying much about the long term, but I remain convinced that our guard play hindered GG immeasurably. Would Allocco have fared much better ? I doubt it.

Patrick Mahomes isn't Patrick Mahomes if on the Jets.
GG hindered his season just as much as guard play. They froze him out a bit because he was awful. You know how you get past that? Make a play. Make a play for himself, for a team mate. Move without the ball. Do something when you are out there. It took him 2/3rds of the season before he showed a sign of wanting to do anything but shoot. Freshman need to earn respect, he wasn't doing it.
 
GG hindered his season just as much as guard play. They froze him out a bit because he was awful. You know how you get past that? Make a play. Make a play for himself, for a team mate. Move without the ball. Do something when you are out there. It took him 2/3rds of the season before he showed a sign of wanting to do anything but shoot. Freshman need to earn respect, he wasn't doing it.
That's fair...but it works both ways. Confidence and chemistry matters, and it affected him a lot. I am not convinced you can compare players from other programs to RU players. Our offensive efficiency ranking was in the 300s, and that starts with guards. It's up to them to run our sets and create good looks for teammates, and they were the worst in the country at that.
 
That's fair...but it works both ways. Confidence and chemistry matters, and it affected him a lot. I am not convinced you can compare players from other programs to RU players. Our offensive efficiency ranking was in the 300s, and that starts with guards. It's up to them to run our sets and create good looks for teammates, and they were the worst in the country at that.
Were they though? We got a lot of good shots that were just missed. You get good shots, you've run your offense well.
I also think the offense wasn't conducive to these guards at all. The pick and roll didn't open things up because no one was going to shoot from 3, so the D could sit back, cover the roller and be in place for an attempted drive. Usually while the PnR would go on, NO ONE was moving off the ball. Nobody on the team demanded a quick double team so there were no simple pass decisions as no one ever left their own man, except to occasionally go down on Cliff.
 
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That's fair...but it works both ways. Confidence and chemistry matters, and it affected him a lot. I am not convinced you can compare players from other programs to RU players. Our offensive efficiency ranking was in the 300s, and that starts with guards. It's up to them to run our sets and create good looks for teammates, and they were the worst in the country at that.

Sorry but I don’t see it this way. Gavin was awful early when he was in the starting line up against very bad teams. That wasn’t because our guards were worse than the low major guards they were up against. Gavin just wasn’t ready to perform on either end. That doesn’t mean he will not develop, but if Paul or Geo looked like he did their frosh years they would’ve been on the bench. The reality is he played because of his recruiting ranking and no other reason.
 
I view martini as an elevated Palmqvist. I'm sure all could see how that would be needed on next years team.
I'm pretty much of the same viewpoint, but I'm not even convinced he's "better".
Oskar's poor season from 3 this year hurt his overall #'s so that Martini is probably a slightly better shooter. Oskars rebound, assist, steal, and block %'s are all higher and he's already playing at a higher level. Martini has a career box score +/- of a negative, Palm is at least on the plus side. Despite Palm's improvement, Martini looks to be a better FT shooter. Palm is a better defender.
I can't convince myself Oskar wouldn't do the same at Princeton that Martini did.
 
I'm pretty much of the same viewpoint, but I'm not even convinced he's "better".
Oskar's poor season from 3 this year hurt his overall #'s so that Martini is probably a slightly better shooter. Oskars rebound, assist, steal, and block %'s are all higher and he's already playing at a higher level. Martini has a career box score +/- of a negative, Palm is at least on the plus side. Despite Palm's improvement, Martini looks to be a better FT shooter. Palm is a better defender.
I can't convince myself Oskar wouldn't do the same at Princeton that Martini did.

I mean - I don’t know. I thought Dean would be a major guy at a lower level and he wasn’t. So I’m not sure whether that’s right or not about Oskar. I agree with you though that Martini doesn’t seem like the best defender which is worrisome with our reliance on frosh. We’re going to need some balance there.
 
I mean - I don’t know. I thought Dean would be a major guy at a lower level and he wasn’t. So I’m not sure whether that’s right or not about Oskar. I agree with you though that Martini doesn’t seem like the best defender which is worrisome with our reliance on frosh. We’re going to need some balance there.
Yeah, I thought Dean was terribly overvalued, by a few, but think most of those conversations were on TOS where they had a Dean fan club thread. I always thought Oskar was the better player of the two.
Whether he'd product at Princeton, we'll never know, but I think, given Martini's playing time he'd put up the same #'s. Basketball is a rhythm sport, Palm has very rarely ever had the opportunity to feel his way into a game. He's in, and if doesn't give something positive early, he's out. Which is fine, he's an end of the bench guy, not saying he should have had a bigger role. The fact that Oskar seems to be a better rebounder too - and he's awful because all he tries to do is box out and let someone else attack the ball - almost scares me more than the weaker D. Right now, I have no idea who will rebound for us next year. Ace can't be 190 lbs, he'll find it difficult in the B!G. I do think the guards will help a bit on that end though.
 
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