Really worried about Geo…
- Thread starter Scarlet Shack
- Start date
So when Ron disappears in some games, or struggles shooting, like Baker has is it because he doesn’t know his role also?
You specifically said Ron knows his role but Baker doesn’t know his. They both have had games where they disappear , aren’t assertive enough or don’t shoot well.
Not following - seems like another odd angle to single Baker out. He’s just not always consistent lol.
Michigan did a good job making sure Cliff didn’t get the ball under the basket in position to score too often. RHJ got a ton of usage. Not sure how you could realistically expect much more for the minutes he played. Paul was on the bench in foul trouble and most of the board is grumbling about the 9 shots Caleb took (technically 10 since he was fouled on one) being too much. So what role should Geo have played instead of attempting those 11 shots (mostly step backs and runners that he often makes)? Do you prefer he kick out to Hyatt and Mag for 3s?
What’s happening here is you’re singling me out lol.
Ron consistently leads the team in field goal attempts night in and night out, the majority of time with double digit attempts and the majority of the time at the highest fg% of any qualifying non-cliff player on the team.
Any time Ron hasn’t put his shots up, few and far between by the way, was when he was having a terrible shooting night which was like only twice in conference. He’s the best scorer and always gets his shots up.
There is no comparison between Ron and Geo. Ron’s role is beyond clear.
What makes it so hard to understand is that Geo's shot seems to be off in more games than not. He's played in 23 games this season, and of those 23 games, he made only one three point shot or less in 13 of them. (And in those 13 games he was a combined 37-138 FG (26.8%) and 7-61 from 3PT (11.4%) Out of those 13 games where he made 1 or no 3 point shots, his best shooting percentages from both the field and from 3PT were in the loss to Purdue, where he shot 5-13FG and 1-3 3PT. And he followed that up with a 2-11 FG, 0-4 3PT game against Michigan where some of his shots weren't even close. It's not like a bad shooting night is an anomaly for him, for some reason.
Not trying to single you out, but I think you’re the only one that’s saying Geo doesn’t understand his role (which is way better than saying we’re better off without him like was said after the UMASS game ;)).
I just don’t really understand the take.
Geo took 11 shots last night, which is exactly what his average is for the season. He just didn’t make many of those shots. He also didn’t look to drive to the hoop or be as aggressive as we needed him to be - I just don’t think that’s because he “doesn’t know his role”…but rather because he just wasn’t making his shots, which impacts his confidence and assertiveness. It’s a problem but I don’t think it’s because he doesn’t know his role.
It’s not really about Ron vs Geo though. His point is that with Paul stuck on the bench in foul trouble, it was actually Geo’s job to try to run the offense and in this case, that meant taking those shots. It wasn’t like there were a ton of options and he was just being a ball hog. Caleb probably had the right amount of shots. Lord knows the guys on the bench didn’t need more shots. So basically when he couldn’t feed Cliff and Ron in the post and the shot clock dipped down his best option was trying to create a shot attempt for himself. They just didn’t go in.
I agree it’s not about geo vs ron. S_janowski brought ron into it for no reason.
Disagree strongly for a few reasons:
1) He’s not the 4th option when Mulcahy is in foul trouble and on the bench
2) A large number of Cliffs made baskets are dunks. I’m good with going to him more, but a lot of his buckets are on put backs or designed alley oops (you can only work so much of that in successfully)
3) 11 shots from Baker isn’t really that many shots especially for a team that can struggle offensively across the board. Who else is taking these shots?
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Sobering stats. That's over 50% of games with terrible shooting stats. No way to sugar coat that.
Hope he shows up in half our remaining games and gets hot in the tournament
The post that you made and I originally quoted, you said “Him (Geo) and Ron love talking about needing the other guys to know their role, and for Ron it holds true, but Geo doesn’t know his. Pike needs to update Geo”.
So with Paul on the bench in foul trouble… you’re saying that Geo didn’t know his role because he took 11 shots (his season average) and actually should have taken LESS shots?! Huh.
I would actually argue that Ron doesn’t know his role more than Geo. Ron needs to put this team on his back and carry us. He’s shown he’s more than capable so many times but sometimes he doesn’t demand the ball enough or take over more games when he can. Once Paul got in foul trouble that should have been a cue for Ron to take the game over.
So make the argument that ron doesn’t im looking forward to it. Specifically touching on the volume of shots and the coach giving the ball to someone else very often down the stretch
I just made the argument.
Paul gets in foul trouble and is delegated to the bench. The combo of him and Cliff have been carrying our team.
Ron needs to realize that it’s now his time to step up and take more than 14 shots in a game, especially when he’s making them over 50%. I’m pretty sure Geo or Pikiell aren’t stopping Ron from taking more shots, especially if he demands and wants it.
And guess what happens if Ron recognizes his role that he needs to put the team in his back. Geo probably takes less shots!
Ron is the potential NBA player here. He needs to embrace that a lot more. Hence why I believe it’s actually Ron who doesn’t recognize his role (more than Geo). Opposite of what you’re saying.
Pikiell makes a conscious decision to run 99% of all half court offense getting into set responsibility through Paul/geo/McConnell and 99% of high ball screen with cliff through Paul/geo.
And Ron STILL leads the team in fga and usage%. It’s nearly unbelievable.
You’re not making a very good argument that the fault lies with Ron.
When Ron says the other guys need to know their role it’s coming from a place where he knows things need to go through him. When Geo says it he thinks the same when it really shouldn’t fo through him but he thinks it should.
Haha ok agree to disagree. I’m not saying the fault is with Ron. But if you wanna compare Geo and Ron knowing their roles (which you did), I think there’s a stronger argument for Ron not knowing his role (by not always seizing the opportunity to lead this team and carry it on his back).
Like I said, if Ron really wanted to shoot the ball 20 + times a game last night (which I would have loved to see) he could have. Geo or Pikiell wouldn’t have stopped him. I will say Pikiell shouldn’t have taken him out of the lineup in the 2nd half when he did.
At no point last night did I think Geo was taking too many shots. You haven’t made a good argument at all with that - especially in a game Paul was in foul trouble!
When you’re offense is as inefficient as Geos you’re inherently shooting too much.
I don’t mind when Geo takes transition shots, nor would I mind if he took a shots when he’s on the floor with Miller and McConnell. That’s just not when he’s taking the majority of them. Too bad for our team. Just want our offense to be better.
Unfortunately (as an aside) when Pike was asked post game a great question, leading question by Fonseca (I see what you did there bud nice job), about not getting it going in lulls, Pikes answer was we didn’t get enough stops.
The problem is we have a number of players who are inefficient on offense. It’s not just Geo problem, which is why I’m not sure you’re singling him out saying he doesn’t know his role.
I have no problem with Geo taking 11 shots. Especially on a night when Paul is in foul trouble sitting in the bench.
They also score a lot less points and aren’t really capable of putting up 20 + like Baker can when his shot is on. And aside from Reiber, they’re probably all less efficient than Baker I would have to imagine.
So back to why I don’t see how Baker isn’t understanding his role, on a team thats pretty inefficient. At some point someone has to take the shots, especially when PM is in the bench with foul trouble.
Cliff and paul should be getting more shots LOL youre changing the argument each time. Geos role should be 3/4th (3 for your benefit so you argue less) and take less shots
Bro Paul can’t take shots when he’s on the bench!
Lol you said Baker didn’t understand his role last night and took too many shots in a game when Paul was in foul trouble.
Your argument has completely fallen apart now omg.
Someone once made a good point to me about scorers. We were talking about a guy scoring well on an NBA team but his point was that he did that, not because he was a good scorer, but on that team, he simply was given the most shots. When the guy was traded to another team, his scoring average went way down. That's how I have always thought about GEO. He is not a good outside shooter, and he has at best a mediocre handle which limits his ability to score off the dribble. With that, in Pike's offense, Geo will always average double digits. Pike just has always given him that many shots a game. It's the volume of shots, not the quality that get him there.
I had it at 5 shots without Paul on the floor before i turned it off under 3 to go.
As I said in our chat last night: we have seen this from Geo for 5-straight seasons now. He goes through funks and when he gets into them, everything is off, but he comes out of them and it’s like he was never even there. I fully expect to see the real Geo again on Saturday night.
So by your count 5 of his 11 shots were when Paul was on the bench.
Then 3 more shots were with less than 4 minutes left when I believe Paul was on the floor in basically garbage time.
So that leaves a total of 3 shots left that Geo took when Paul was on the floor in meaningful minutes.
And you said “Geo’s shots weren’t coming when Paul was on the bench!!!!!!!!!”
Huh?! Do you not want Geo to shoot at all.
lol.
That was your main point not mine. Just don’t want him taking 2nd most shots on team
My point was 11 shots isn’t a lot when Mulcahy plays 22 minutes lol.
To which you came back with that dramatic statement which wasn’t remotely true. Almost half his shots were when Paul was on the bench and 3 more were in garbage time.
Having a debate with you is rough.
You realize we tried to get the ball in to Cliff more, right? Michigan did a very good job of denying those looks.
Just for clarification purposes for everybody: If the play by play section of the box score on the RU basketball website is accurate, then 8 of Geo's 11 shots were when Paul was on the bench. (First half: 1 shot with Paul in game, 3 shots with Paul out. Second half: 2 shots with Paul in game, 5 shots with Paul out.)
Center of attention would probably have been a better way of saying it.
Agree with your point here.
You have never posted one good thing about Geo. While this post has gone down the toilet with an argument about who should take shots and their number , maybe you can find it in your thought pattern , to give Geo at least one compliment for beating Michigan on 1/4. If you forgot he had 27 points and shot well. I really don’t recall you ever saying a nice word for someone who has scored over 1500 points . Kinda fascinating and sad at the same time.
Disrupting half court offense by playing tight in your face D. Miller stays in front of his man better.
He only plays a few minutes a game. Doesn’t have to worry about fouling. Isn’t fatigued from playing 34 mpg. Completely different. He has not come in and demonstrated that he’s a clear defensive upgrade over Geo. Geo’s not the best defensive player in the world, but overall he’s pretty good. You don’t put Miller in for him and feel like suddenly the defense got a substantial boost.
I feel like this is coming across sounding like a knock on Miller and I’m not intending that. The kid is doing a great job with what he’s being asked to do. He’s a frosh. It’s apples and oranges. Geo is a veteran super senior and one of the better defending guards on the team. It’s simply not the truth that if he’s not scoring he should sit. Even on a bad scoring day he usually adds more value on both sides (defense and ball handling) than our alternatives. That was my point.
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