RU Applications Up 9.5%

[bigmatt718]

http://www.njbiz.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...cations-rise-by-95-percent&template=mobileart

While that's a good thing and all, I'm hoping thats an influx of OOS applicants. Personally I think RU should have a 70/20/10 ratio of NJ resident students/OOS students/international students. Last I checked RU was still in the mid 80s for NJ students, too high IMO. RU should focus on getting OOS students from NY, New England, PA (Especially Philly/Lehigh Valley/Poconos), DE, MD, and the B1G states.

 

[retired711]

http://www.njbiz.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...cations-rise-by-95-percent&template=mobileart

While that's a good thing and all, I'm hoping thats an influx of OOS applicants. Personally I think RU should have a 70/20/10 ration of NJ resident students/OOS students/international students. Last I checked RU was still in the mid 80s for NJ students, too high IMO. RU should focus on getting OOS students from NY, New England, PA (Especially Philly/Lehigh Valley/Poconos), DE, MD, and the B1G states.

The story says there has been a 20% increase in OOS applications. Let's hope that those are from good students.

 

[bigmatt718]

The story says there has been a 20% increase in OOS applications. Let's hope that those are from good students.

That was my next question.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Great news all around!

 

[mal359]

http://www.njbiz.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...cations-rise-by-95-percent&template=mobileart

While that's a good thing and all, I'm hoping thats an influx of OOS applicants. Personally I think RU should have a 70/20/10 ratio of NJ resident students/OOS students/international students. Last I checked RU was still in the mid 80s for NJ students, too high IMO. RU should focus on getting OOS students from NY, New England, PA (Especially Philly/Lehigh Valley/Poconos), DE, MD, and the B1G states.

Too low IMO.

 

[bigmatt718]

Too low IMO.

Why should RU be at 90% in state? The school gets more money from OOS students, you know that, I hope.

 

[RUSK97]

Why should RU be at 90% in state? The school gets more money from OOS students, you know that, I hope.

I hear you, but that’s part of her mission as the state’s flagship public university - to serve the state, no matter maligned she may be by the state legislature.

 

[RUnTeX]

Geographic diversity beyond NJ should be a benefit to the academic experience. Rutgers would still fulfill its mission of educating citizens of the state of NJ even if the % of in-state is lower than it historically has been. NJ state funding of Rutgers' budget has been on a decline for more than a generation. Rutgers should do what it has to do to survive and getting more tuition dollars from OOS/foreign students makes sense.

 

[Upstream]

I hear you, but that’s part of her mission as the state’s flagship public university - to serve the state, no matter maligned she may be by the state legislature.

I think a strong argument can be made that Rutgers, as the state's flagship research university, serves the state better by attracting high quality students from other states a portion of whom will remain in NJ, contributing to the state. Additionally, with more high quality students from other states, Rutgers would be more attractive to high quality students from NJ who now look to go to college out of state.

 

[RU-ROCS]

I hear you, but that’s part of her mission as the state’s flagship public university - to serve the state, no matter maligned she may be by the state legislature.

Maligned is not the right word. Under-funded is. After 20+ years of budget cuts NJ now funds less than 25% of RU's operating budget. That number used to be close to 75% decades ago. That means, like most State U's these days, RU has to take more out-of-state students to survive and thrive. Like the OP, I hope that RU caps in-state student population at no more than 70%. Taking more out-of-state and foreign students not only raises revenue, but also generally raises the academic standards of the University, as there is a much larger pool of applicants from which to draw.

 

[RUSK97]

Maligned is not the right word. Under-funded is. After 20+ years of budget cuts NJ now funds less than 25% of RU's operating budget. That number used to be close to 75% decades ago. That means, like most State U's these days, RU has to take more out-of-state students to survive and thrive. Like the OP, I hope that RU caps in-state student population at no more than 70%. Taking more out-of-state and foreign students not only raises revenue, but also generally raises the academic standards of the University, as there is a much larger pool of applicants from which to draw.

Absolutely impossible to refute your statement because it's 100% true. The University is very underfunded by the legislature. But I hold that it's also maligned because for whatever reasons, we have alumni underrepresentation in Trenton politics (In jest I suggest our alums are too intelligent to get embroiled in that shit mess). As a result, there is no real championing of the State U in legislature. People like Sweeney and Norcross have repeatedly slandered the University in a very malignant way and that contributes to the underfunding.

 

[retired711]

The underfunding goes back well before Norcross and Sweeney became major powers; it's been there at least since the early 1990s. If it makes you feel better, state universities in other states have had similar problems (although many have not suffered on the scale of New Jersey.) Rutgers does not have much of a cachet in the state; probably a lot of people still think of it as a private school, or as a school with huge private resources. Nor do people seem to realize the economic and other benefits that Rutgers brings to the state. Barchi is working on these fronts, but it will take a lot of effort.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Absolutely impossible to refute your statement because it's 100% true. The University is very underfunded by the legislature. But I hold that it's also maligned because for whatever reasons, we have alumni underrepresentation in Trenton politics (In jest I suggest our alums are too intelligent to get embroiled in that shit mess). As a result, there is no real championing of the State U in legislature. People like Sweeney and Norcross have repeatedly slandered the University in a very malignant way and that contributes to the underfunding.

All sad but true!

 

[RUnTeX]

Here are some recent university-wide (NB + Nwk + Cmd) figures:

https://www.rutgers.edu/about/facts-figures

STUDENTS

• 69,198 students from all 50 states and more than 125 countries
• 49,681 undergraduates and 19,517 graduate students
• New Jersey residents: 82.6%
• Out-of-state: 17.4%
• 46.4% men and 53.6% women
• 17,657 Rutgers students received degrees in the 2016–2017 academic year

The OOS % above includes foreign/international enrollment, which I believe might be in the range of 8-10%. That would put the domestic-only split around 90/10, in-state vs. OOS.

Note the above numbers are university-wide and for both undergrads and grad students. The latter population probably has a slightly higher combined OOS+int'l because the int'l % is typically higher for grad than for undergrads.

Meanwhile, Camden and Newark have historically enrolled a higher in-state % than NB, around 95% if I recall correctly.

So all that taken into account, without having exact figures my guess is that NB Undergrad is in the vicinity of 85/15 for in-state vs. OOS (including Int'l/foreign).

 

[retired711]

Non-international graduate students (including students in post-BA programs, like law) are much more likely to come from other states than are undergraduate students. So the proportion of undergrads from other states is probably pretty low. But it is certainly higher at NB than at the other campuses.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

I would like to see the numbers at 85% New Jerseyans, about 14% out of staters,and a very small amount of students from foreign countries. American public colleges should not be taking spots from Americans and giving them to foreigners unless it is just a few and they are willing to pay triple for tuition and room and board.

 

[RUnTeX]

Non-international graduate students (including students in post-BA programs, like law) are much more likely to come from other states than are undergraduate students. So the proportion of undergrads from other states is probably pretty low. But it is certainly higher at NB than at the other campuses.

Certainly makes sense.

 

[RUnTeX]

I would like to see the numbers at 85% New Jerseyans, about 14% out of staters,and a very small amount of students from foreign countries. American public colleges should not be taking spots from Americans and giving them to foreigners unless it is just a few and they are willing to pay triple for tuition and room and board.

That low of a foreign student percentage is unrealistic given the realities of today with declining state support, increasing demand from the international side, some desire to have diversity of perspectives and backgrounds, and learning to function in a more global society.

Many flagship publics were in the range of 3-5% international going back to the 80s/90s. I don't think any can get back to that level if they are in the vicinity of double or triple of that nowadays.

Don't necessarily have an issue with charging more than just OOS tuition and an int'l student fee.

 

[ElmiraExpress]

I would like to see the numbers at 85% New Jerseyans, about 14% out of staters,and a very small amount of students from foreign countries. American public colleges should not be taking spots from Americans and giving them to foreigners unless it is just a few and they are willing to pay triple for tuition and room and board.

why? so do you think universities should take a less qualified American student over a more qualified international student ? I don’t, and thankfully, I don’t think any universities think that way either.

 

[e5fdny]

Don’t international usually pay full freight?

And how does a system like University of California vs. California State handle their in-state/OOS/international brakedown(s)? Can NJ use the state colleges to help fulfill this requirement?

Without being beholden to the present ratio, I would like to see a line where you’re above the metric we offer admission. If not, you’re not.

And this would be for New Brunswick.

 

[retired711]

Don’t international usually pay full freight?

And how does a system like University of California vs. California State handle their in-state/OOS/international brakedown(s)? Can NJ use the state colleges to help fulfill this requirement?

Without being beholden to the present ratio, I would like to see a line where you’re above the metric we offer admission. If not, you’re not.

And this would be for New Brunswick.

Not sure I can answer all of your questions, but here goes.

International students pay full freight. They are not eligible for any kind of financial aid..

The University of California's campuses each admit students separately. The system does not have many OOS students in it; Berkeley tried to expand its OOS admissions to increase revenue, and got slapped down by the state legislature. The flagship campuses do have a considerable number of international students, but my guess is that the numbers are not much different.

In the UC system, an OOS student has to be really stellar to be admitted. This has always been the case there. It is also the case in almost all state university systems.

 

[RUnTeX]

In the UC system, an OOS student has to be really stellar to be admitted. This has always been the case there. It is also the case in almost all state university systems.

This. I remember debating an application to UC Berkeley for engineering back in the day, and then when I realized how much more competitive the admissions profile (like Ivy League quality) was for OOS students, I figured why bother. I already had 2-3 reach schools on the east coast I was shooting for, didn't think there was much point to adding another long shot to the mix.

 

[e5fdny]

Not sure I can answer all of your questions, but here goes.

International students pay full freight. They are not eligible for any kind of financial aid..

The University of California's campuses each admit students separately. The system does not have many OOS students in it; Berkeley tried to expand its OOS admissions to increase revenue, and got slapped down by the state legislature. The flagship campuses do have a considerable number of international students, but my guess is that the numbers are not much different.

In the UC system, an OOS student has to be really stellar to be admitted. This has always been the case there. It is also the case in almost all state university systems.

Well as a Cal alum maybe you can answer this one...any guess on what they get money wise from Sacramento? What is the percentage?

I am guessing it’s much higher than ours since they gave up after the pushback by the state.

If NJ is funding less than 25% maybe they should have less than 25% say on how we do things.

 

[retired711]

I don't know the percentages. But I don't think that the state of California is all that much more generous to higher education than New Jersey is. This year's budget in California is good, but all the same the University of California has become increasingly dependent on revenues from other sources.

 

[e5fdny]

I don't know the percentages. But I don't think that the state of California is all that much more generous to higher education than New Jersey is. This year's budget in California is good, but all the same the University of California has become increasingly dependent on revenues from other sources.

When they tried to change the OOS ratio do you know if they were getting more than they are now?

 

[retired711]

When they tried to change the OOS ratio do you know if they were getting more than they are now?

There was a year when Berkeley admitted something like 40% OOS. They're probably back down to 10% now, which I think is the historic level.

 

[e5fdny]

There was a year when Berkeley admitted something like 40% OOS. They're probably back down to 10% now, which I think is the historic level.

I meant the funding from the state.

Sorry about that, should have been clearer.

 

[retired711]

I meant the funding from the state.

Sorry about that, should have been clearer.

The UC system is getting more now, but that has to do with the surplus in the California treasury accumulated under Jerry Brown. I'm not sure that there was any immediate financial effect from the OOS policy, but UC heard loud and clear that it was unacceptable and that there would be consequences if any of the campuses continued to admit lots of OOS students as undergraduates.

 

[RUnTeX]

Based on the latest data, I believe NJ funded 22% of Rutgers' total university-wide budget. I don't know the specific percentages of other states' funding of their respective flagship public schools, but from recent past I seem to recall reading somewhere online that among others, Virginia and Pennsylvania are a couple states where the funding is really low, perhaps sub-20%. NJ is toward the low end at 22% but may not even be bottom five in that regard.

 

[RUnTeX]

Can NJ use the state colleges to help fulfill this requirement?

Not sure what actual requirement you're referring to but I imagine that all of the other NJ four year publics are at least as heavily in-state student populated as Rutgers-NB, probably more so. Meaning likely 90% plus. So it could be argued that the mission to serve NJ students across the state is being well fulfilled. Due to sheer population, NJ also has so many college-bound HS graduates that there are not enough seats at NJ public colleges even if they all wanted to stay in-state.

 

[e5fdny]

Not sure what actual requirement you're referring to but I imagine that all of the other NJ four year publics are at least as heavily in-state student populated as Rutgers-NB, probably more so. Meaning likely 90% plus. So it could be argued that the mission to serve NJ students across the state is being well fulfilled. Due to sheer population, NJ also has so many college-bound HS graduates that there are not enough seats at NJ public colleges even if they all wanted to stay in-state.

That’s what I’m saying.

 

[Scarlet Jerry]

I read the Chronicle of Higher Education every week, and the issue of states underfunding their flagship universities and public colleges is a national problem. Some states are worse than others (Colorado, Illinois) but funding for higher ed is at an historic low all over. Here is some data from four years ago - it's worse now:

https://www.chronicle.com/interactives/statesupport

-Scarlet Jerry

 

[retired711]

Not sure what actual requirement you're referring to but I imagine that all of the other NJ four year publics are at least as heavily in-state student populated as Rutgers-NB, probably more so. Meaning likely 90% plus. So it could be argued that the mission to serve NJ students across the state is being well fulfilled. Due to sheer population, NJ also has so many college-bound HS graduates that there are not enough seats at NJ public colleges even if they all wanted to stay in-state.

Perhaps it's just it's early in the morning, but I found the last two sentences contradictory. The lack of seats at NJ public colleges for NJ students is arguably a good reason for concluding that the mission of educating NJ students is not being accomplished, and that the best thing to do is to save the seats we have for NJ students.

 

[RUnTeX]

Perhaps it's just it's early in the morning, but I found the last two sentences contradictory. The lack of seats at NJ public colleges for NJ students is arguably a good reason for concluding that the mission of educating NJ students is not being accomplished, and that the best thing to do is to save the seats we have for NJ students.

Well, I guess I was implying that all NJ publics could be 100% in-state and with the number of seats being what they are, still not meet all of the NJ college-bound demand. That said, I haven't done the math. I don't think it's realistic to meet 100% demand, especially given that some of that 100% will go either private and/or OOS public, by choice, so the only way to serve greater demand, if that was a goal, would be to provide more seats, i.e. expand existing colleges where possible/feasible or build more colleges, which is not likely since NJ gov't can't support the current higher education infrastructure with their current funding levels.

 

[e5fdny]

Well, I guess I was implying that all NJ publics could be 100% in-state and with the number of seats being what they are, still not meet all of the NJ college-bound demand. That said, I haven't done the math. I don't think it's realistic to meet 100% demand, especially given that some of that 100% will go either private and/or OOS public, by choice, so the only way to serve greater demand, if that was a goal, would be to provide more seats, i.e. expand existing colleges where possible/feasible or build more colleges, which is not likely since NJ gov't can't support the current higher education infrastructure with their current funding levels.

Which IMO is a nice thing to have for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

As to current and future higher education infrastructure, keep an eye on what’s going on down at Rowan.

 

[bigmatt718]

Which IMO is a nice thing to have for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

As to current and future higher education infrastructure, keep an eye on what’s going on down at Rowan.

I hope Rowan keeps growing and starts taking the marginal Rutgers students that previously we would have accepted. If that happens, Rutgers can be more selective in who they accept, strengthening our academic rep in state.

 

[retired711]

I hope Rowan keeps growing and starts taking the marginal Rutgers students that previously we would have accepted. If that happens, Rutgers can be more selective in who they accept, strengthening our academic rep in state.

OTOH, Rowan is a direct competitor with Rutgers-Camden; the two are about 40 minutes away from each other. Rowan already has the advantage of having an engineering program, which Rutgers-Camden does not. (except for a two-year prep program that relies on channeling students to New Brunswick.) So there's a limit to how good Rutgers should want Rowan to get.

 

[bigmatt718]

OTOH, Rowan is a direct competitor with Rutgers-Camden; the two are about 40 minutes away from each other. Rowan already has the advantage of having an engineering program, which Rutgers-Camden does not. (except for a two-year prep program that relies on channeling students to New Brunswick.) So there's a limit to how good Rutgers should want Rowan to get.

Rowan isn't a competitor with RU-New Brunswick though, and that's what I care about as an RU-NB grad.

 

[retired711]

Rowan isn't a competitor with RU-New Brunswick though, and that's what I care about as an RU-NB grad.

I understand that. But really the school you should want to see improved is Rutgers-Camden. The better Rutgers-Camden is, the easier it is to keep RU-NB at a reasonable enrollment level rather than overcrowd NB further. And the better Rutgers-Camden is, the easier it is to keep students who are not quite NB-caliber as tuition-paying students at Rutgers overall, and thus contribute to Rutgers' revenue stream.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Based on the latest data, I believe NJ funded 22% of Rutgers' total university-wide budget. I don't know the specific percentages of other states' funding of their respective flagship public schools, but from recent past I seem to recall reading somewhere online that among others, Virginia and Pennsylvania are a couple states where the funding is really low, perhaps sub-20%. NJ is toward the low end at 22% but may not even be bottom five in that regard.

You guys are lucky to be receiving 22% in State support.

The PA legislature funds Penn State, Pitt and Temple (State related universities) to the tune of about 9%.

As far as the class breakdown for Pitt, it is as follows:

Pennsylvania Students: 67.1%
Out of State Students: 23.5%
International Students: 9.4%

HAIL TO PITT!!!!