Rutgers basketball has ‘best 2-man backcourt’ in Big Ten, analyst says

[lion1983]

lion,

we agree that traditional positions are 20+ years ago.

If it is clear Harper is a LEAD guard why in HS was he a clear cut old school 2?

I also think you severly underestimate the rigors of being a primary PG being tasked with using energy bringing the ball up against a pesky guard and being tasked with simulataneously getting a team in an offensive set.

It is a HUGE ask of a freshman who will also hit a wall in the middle of the seASON
1. pLAY DEFENSE
2. Be the QB offense
3. Bring the ball up against pesky opponents
4. Carry a load of the scoring

Too much on his plate! Especially when you have a natural PG on the team who frankly can't shoot.

Good points! I don't really disagree, which is why JWill does complement Harper, as he is capable of sharing the "trigger" on offense and bringing up the ball duties.

I have ot admit I did not watch Harper's play in HS, just saw him in the All Star games, where he was definitely filling the role of what I describe as "lead" guard, more so than PG or 2G. And yeah, I know those All Star games are not real games.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Hayes seems closer to a stretch 4 than a 2 to me. Slow footed, doesn't handle the ball, doesn't distribute, poor defensively, other than his shooting ability doesn't do much. I can see what you mean though about sticking him in between Ace and Dylan, if they both play as well rounded offensively as we think. It would have to be for short spurts though.

I think EO, if he stays out of foul trouble, and Martini will probably be fine defensively and we really need that third guy with the freshman to be a plus on that end of the court too.

On Acuff, many guards have a hand they favor, if the other guys on the court have to be paid attention to, it really doesn't matter. If the help is easily there, then yeah, it's more difficult. Almost every swing guard we've had has been streaky. He's willing to shoot the three, which makes the defense have to guard against it. You have to be willing to shoot it, prior to last year about 45% of his shots were from three. JWill was down to 19% last year, and Hayes was at like 75%. Acuff is the guy that is a threat from all three levels. No one has said he's an all american, or even all conference level talent, and I've only said if he defense was better he's a better fit next to Dylan.

There may be a few combo's we don't see together much. PJ and Sommerville, Derkack and other poor shooting guards, Ace Lathan and Hayes combo, ect.

A few things to add. While J Will is a career 25.2% three point shooter and Davis shot 22% last year, most of those shots represent PG stop and launch attempts. And J Will only has 110 career attempts while J Davis has 36. The sample size for both is small - and I have no doubt both would have better looking numbers if they attempted more higher percentage kick out 3s on the wing. I’m not saying we want them taking those - I just think your overvaluing Acuff’s perimeter shooting and other scoring compared to theirs. When you get 18.7 shots per game in a terrible league, your going to put up points.

 

[NickRU714]

From Dylan himself.

Note: among players who had at least 1,000 minutes last year here are the usage rankings:
Luka #2
Brunson #7
Cade #12

Harden's usage was down last year but during his prime years he had some of the highest usage numbers ever.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/usage?PerMode=PerGame&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular Season&dir=A&sort=USG_PCT

Doesn't really seem like he sees himself as an off ball guard. Regardless of how he played in HS.
These are the most ball dominant guards in the NBA.
I would assume Harper wants the ball in his hands more often than not.



https://hoopshype.com/lists/dylan-h...t-people-dont-have-most-people-dont-ever-see/

Who are some NBA players you try to emulate?​

RH: Probably James Harden, Cade Cunningham, Luka Doncic, Jalen Brunson. I think all big guards, strong guards get to their spots perfectly, just know how to hoop.

Jalen Brunson has really emerged the past couple years. Do you see a lot of similarities between your game and his?​

RH: I don’t think we have a lot of similarities. I think one thing is our motor, the way we control the game at a high level. Just make sure the balls always in our hands at the end of games no matter what

 

[seansherm]

I don’t mean to be a Debbie downer on Acuff, but I guess I kind of am a little.id love to be wrong. I find it concerning the fact that every team where he’s played a material role has been a perrenial loser (not just middle of the pack conference bad - horrible). I do get that all kids probably favor one side - but I’ve watched a lot of film in my time, and I think this is the first time that has ever stood out as something I actually noticed - could be because we’re in the process of pushing my son to drive left more though. Definite possibility! But I remember watching Cam Spencer’s film from Loyola and thinking - this kid is versatile - the 3 ball was his signature but he could score in the halfcourt sets in a lot of ways. Acuff used the same move (rip and drive hard right) to score his points in penetration. And then there is the D issue which is a whole different concern - especially with him working his way back from injury now.

Hey, it's all fair critique. I agree, he's not Spencer, but I'm hopeful not having to shoulder near the load he did last year is good for him. As you've mentioned, we hope it's good for JWill as well.

 

[seansherm]

A few things to add. While J Will is a career 25.2% three point shooter and Davis shot 22% last year, most of those shots represent PG stop and launch attempts. And J Will only has 110 career attempts while J Davis has 36. The sample size for both is small - and I have no doubt both would have better looking numbers if they attempted more higher percentage kick out 3s on the wing. I’m not saying we want them taking those - I just think your overvaluing Acuff’s perimeter shooting and other scoring compared to theirs. When you get 18.7 shots per game in a terrible league, your going to put up points.

I think JWill and JD both can improve, and hope they do. Davis was a freshman, I expect him to grow. JWill needs to stop shrinking that part of his game. He just needs to be willing to take those shots, which hopefully will be more readily available to him this year. Believe me, I'm not anti JWill, I just think he's purposely leaving a big hole in his game. He shot OK from deep as a freshman, that's really all he needs to be, willing and OK.
I agree Acuff's scoring last year was very inefficient, but this team needed a better upperclassmen shooter w confidence to take shots over what Simpson provided last year. If Acuff shoots 35% or so from three, combined w his normal 50ish% from two, he'll be a plus addition. I'm not thinking he is going shoot like Spencer.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I think JWill and JD both can improve, and hope they do. Davis was a freshman, I expect him to grow. JWill needs to stop shrinking that part of his game. He just needs to be willing to take those shots, which hopefully will be more readily available to him this year. Believe me, I'm not anti JWill, I just think he's purposely leaving a big hole in his game. He shot OK from deep as a freshman, that's really all he needs to be, willing and OK.
I agree Acuff's scoring last year was very inefficient, but this team needed a better upperclassmen shooter w confidence to take shots over what Simpson provided last year. If Acuff shoots 35% or so from three, combined w his normal 50ish% from two, he'll be a plus addition. I'm not thinking he is going shoot like Spencer.

I understand where your coming from - I just think it might be wishful thinking. Acuff is a career 33% three point shooter, who played against weak competition to begin with. Now consider how many shots he probably took in garbage time minutes during all those lopsided losses. I think he’s a much better player than Agee, but I’m still scarred from that situation. Acuff’s teams have been every bit as bad as that San Jose State team. Would love to be pleasantly surprised, but I think expecting him to shoot above his career average in the BIG is asking a lot.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Hey, it's all fair critique. I agree, he's not Spencer, but I'm hopeful not having to shoulder near the load he did last year is good for him. As you've mentioned, we hope it's good for JWill as well.

The difference is - I’m with Green. I think J Will is going to run the halfcourt offense most of the time and having better players around him to distribute to is what is going to benefit him. I don’t expect either of them to actually play a traditional 2 role. I was only pointing out that if J Will did play that role he’d probably make a higher percentage of his 3s. Dylan will get more than enough reps bringing up that ball and will be the leader in transition because that’s where he thrives. Like Green said - he’s still a frosh. His overall stats will benefit in my opinion from not having to focus on getting the ball over halfcourt.

 

[seansherm]

I understand where your coming from - I just think it might be wishful thinking. Acuff is a career 33% three point shooter, who played against weak competition to begin with. Now consider how many shots he probably took in garbage time minutes during all those lopsided losses. I think he’s a much better player than Agee, but I’m still scarred from that situation. Acuff’s teams have been every bit as bad as that San Jose State team. Would love to be pleasantly surprised, but I think expecting him to shoot above his career average in the BIG is asking a lot.

Agee, really wasn't even a starter his junior year, first at SJSU, and average like 5 a game. Can't really compare his production to Acuff's. if Tyson gives us somewhere between his soph and junior year, we'll be happy. I do think his injury is making it less likely he has the impact I was hoping for.

 

[seansherm]

The difference is - I’m with Green. I think J Will is going to run the halfcourt offense most of the time and having better players around him to distribute to is what is going to benefit him. I don’t expect either of them to actually play a traditional 2 role. I was only pointing out that if J Will did play that role he’d probably make a higher percentage of his 3s. Dylan will get more than enough reps bringing up that ball and will be the leader in transition because that’s where he thrives. Like Green said - he’s still a frosh. His overall stats will benefit in my opinion from not having to focus on getting the ball over halfcourt.

It will be interesting to see. I don't see Harper as a big "transition" guy, I see him more as a guy who likes to take his time and get to his spots. Both guys can take the opportunity to push if it's there.
It means very little to me which one dribbles the ball to half court, kind of agree JWill will do it slightly more. He'll then give it up, and whether his offense improves really depends on just how much the ball makes it's way back to him. He needs to be better from deep either way. Not that he needs to be taking 6 a game, but at least 3 a game, make himself a threat. I do think he can shoot at least 33% if he does.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

It will be interesting to see. I don't see Harper as a big "transition" guy, I see him more as a guy who likes to take his time and get to his spots. Both guys can take the opportunity to push if it's there.
It means very little to me which one dribbles the ball to half court, kind of agree JWill will do it slightly more. He'll then give it up, and whether his offense improves really depends on just how much the ball makes it's way back to him. He needs to be better from deep either way. Not that he needs to be taking 6 a game, but at least 3 a game, make himself a threat. I do think he can shoot at least 33% if he does.

I think your discounting the role of bringing the ball up too much. Against better teams, it’s not a matter of simply walking it over and handing it off. There’s often a defender guarding that player or picking them up at halfcourt and the placement and timing of that first pass has an impact on the halfcourt offense. Also note that NJ HS basketball doesn’t have a shot clock, so that’s a bit of an adjustment too. These are little things - but as Green was pointing out, when you put them all together, it just may not make sense for anyone to dump that housekeeping stuff on a frosh who has the potential to do great things as a scorer / creator.

Rather - you want a veteran with strong leadership skills who is looking to win at all costs to quietly take the reigns on this. That’s why I personally have doubts about Acuff coming in to fill this function - maybe it wasn’t his fault that the teams he played for were all disasters, but it’s still the way it went down. Note that oddly, his team performed better without him last season in their last 2 games. I find that concerning too. Derkack, by the way, is the total opposite in this regard. History of playing for / leading winning teams. But he struggles with ball handling so I don’t see him playing this role either.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I only watched the Ramapo game. He definitely played the 2 in that one.

I am in the exact same boat here.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I have always thought every possession that you are able to put light pressure on the opposing guard you are putting a penny in the piggy bank. No you aren't getting turnovers, yes you are reducing time on the shot clock. However the biggest benefit in my eyes is what that opposing point guard has left in the tank in the last 5 minutes of the game. It wears on you. If you are a wing you are jogging to the other end. The point guard has to stay focused and can't check out mentally for 5 seconds.

 

[seansherm]

I think your discounting the role of bringing the ball up too much. Against better teams, it’s not a matter of simply walking it over and handing it off. There’s often a defender guarding that player or picking them up at halfcourt and the placement and timing of that first pass has an impact on the halfcourt offense. Also note that NJ HS basketball doesn’t have a shot clock, so that’s a bit of an adjustment too. These are little things - but as Green was pointing out, when you put them all together, it just may not make sense for anyone to dump that housekeeping stuff on a frosh who has the potential to do great things as a scorer / creator.

Rather - you want a veteran with strong leadership skills who is looking to win at all costs to quietly take the reigns on this. That’s why I personally have doubts about Acuff coming in to fill this function - maybe it wasn’t his fault that the teams he played for were all disasters, but it’s still the way it went down. Note that oddly, his team performed better without him last season in their last 2 games. I find that concerning too. Derkack, by the way, is the total opposite in this regard. History of playing for / leading winning teams. But he struggles with ball handling so I don’t see him playing this role either.

Ideally, I agree, you'd want JWill as the "pg" here because he really doesn't have much offensive value off the ball, combined with freshman adjustment you'd have to go through with Dylan. However, I'm not sure I see it playing that way more than 50% of the time as Dylan is a ball dominant guy and will want it in his hands. He's also not as valuable off ball. That's why, if he were better defensively, Acuff has played the more swing guard role prior, and pretty well when he was next to Farrakahn. I don't think his D is good enough though, so JWill and his leadership are the better choice.
Derkack, I still really have no idea about, or what to expect.

 

[seansherm]

I have always thought every possession that you are able to put light pressure on the opposing guard you are putting a penny in the piggy bank. No you aren't getting turnovers, yes you are reducing time on the shot clock. However the biggest benefit in my eyes is what that opposing point guard has left in the tank in the last 5 minutes of the game. It wears on you. If you are a wing you are jogging to the other end. The point guard has to stay focused and can't check out mentally for 5 seconds.

Token pressure, I agree can make the PG focus a bit more. That pressure wears on both guards though, the man having to deal with and dribble through it, AND the guy giving the effort to apply that pressure. Defensive pressure is a great equalizer and requires effort from everyone, not just the on ball guy. If only the pg is applying pressure, it's pretty easy to just lay the ball off to the other guard, you see it all the time.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I have always thought every possession that you are able to put light pressure on the opposing guard you are putting a penny in the piggy bank. No you aren't getting turnovers, yes you are reducing time on the shot clock. However the biggest benefit in my eyes is what that opposing point guard has left in the tank in the last 5 minutes of the game. It wears on you. If you are a wing you are jogging to the other end. The point guard has to stay focused and can't check out mentally for 5 seconds.

Yes to all of this. And then the reverse holds true on the defensive end - I see J Will and J Davis as the best fits on both sides (to apply that pressure and handle it and get the halfcourt offense going on the other end). J Will plays bigger than his height so it’s quite possible there are stretches where he slides over to wing and plays alongside J Mike.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Ideally, I agree, you'd want JWill as the "pg" here because he really doesn't have much offensive value off the ball, combined with freshman adjustment you'd have to go through with Dylan. However, I'm not sure I see it playing that way more than 50% of the time as Dylan is a ball dominant guy and will want it in his hands. He's also not as valuable off ball. That's why, if he were better defensively, Acuff has played the more swing guard role prior, and pretty well when he was next to Farrakahn. I don't think his D is good enough though, so JWill and his leadership are the better choice.
Derkack, I still really have no idea about, or what to expect.

Again - I’d love to be wrong, but I really think you’re expectation for Acuff’s offense is likely to be unrealistic. The teams where he shot efficiently went 6-24 and 8-23. That matters.

 

[NickRU714]

Are we really saying JMike is better PG option to handle pressure than the #3 recruit, expected Top 5 draft pick?

The longer these conversations go the more it seems we were sold a bill of goods and vastly overrated the transfers and even Harper perhaps?

He's likely going to play major NBA minutes in a year, but can't dribble up court against Big Ten players?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Are we really saying JMike is better PG option to handle pressure than the #3 recruit, expected Top 5 draft pick?

The longer these conversations go the more it seems we were sold a bill of goods and vastly overrated the transfers and even Harper perhaps?

He's likely going to play major NBA minutes in a year, but can't dribble up court against Big Ten players?

It’s not that he “can’t”. It’s just that he’ll probably score more and have a bigger impact on the team if often he doesn’t. There will be times he slides to “point” for sure. By the way - it won’t come across as “point” because we mostly play positionless basketball. The prediction is that someone else will focus on bring the ball over halfcourt and finding Dylan in position to create.

 

[seansherm]

Again - I’d love to be wrong, but I really think you’re expectation for Acuff’s offense is likely to be unrealistic. The teams where he shot efficiently went 6-24 and 8-23. That matters.

No worries, I think you overrate the meaning of his bad team being a reflection on him. That first EMU team was one of the worst defensive teams in the country. Get rid of Bates and Farrakahn and they moved up like 100 spots in defensive rankings. Of course, then he was the only offensive threat left.

 

[mjjoyce51]

Again - I’d love to be wrong, but I really think you’re expectation for Acuff’s offense is likely to be unrealistic. The teams where he shot efficiently went 6-24 and 8-23. That matters.

You can also make the argument that his usage rate will be closer to what he saw in 2023 and 2022 when he shot 35.4% and 39.4% from three. He also shot 53.9% from "Far 2" on 89 shots in 2023 which is insanely good.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

No worries, I think you overrate the meaning of his bad team being a reflection on him. That first EMU team was one of the worst defensive teams in the country. Get rid of Bates and Farrakahn and they moved up like 100 spots in defensive rankings. Of course, then he was the only offensive threat left.

I never said I thought the poor play was a reflection on him. I just think an ideal complement to Dylan at the second guard spot is going play a role of stepping ups quietly as a leader - the anchor of sorts to the offense - and having prior experience being party of a winning (or even just average but competitive) program is a helpful attribute. One he lacks compared to the other candidates. he is also brand new to Rutgers and major conference basketball in general. Also - there has to be a mental adjustment involved with the scaled back usage he’s about to experience. I know you keep mentioning J Will as high usage but going from 10ish shot attempts to 6 or 7 is vastly different from going from 18-19ish shot attempts down to 6-7.

Now in terms of his offensive production - yeah with that it’s possible I’m overrating the impact of garbage time and accumulating offense during meaningless PT. To be fair, I’m consistent. I felt the exact same way about GG supposedly “coming on” at the end of the season. I put a premium on how a kid performs when it actually matters. I understand though that not everyone does.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

You can also make the argument that his usage rate will be closer to what he saw in 2023 and 2022 when he shot 35.4% and 39.4% from three. He also shot 53.9% from "Far 2" on 89 shots in 2023 which is insanely good.

Sure you can. And to be fair, I didn’t scrub the play by play to see what percentage of his points were collected during meaningful minutes vs garbage time. But Acuff almost certainly played a proportionally larger amount (significantly so) of garbage time minutes than the other guys with prior collegiate experience on our team. When you play 30+ minutes on teams that get routinely blown out that’s a given. I just don’t put as much stock in points scored when a game is out of hand and the outcome no longer in doubt the same as I do points scored in a competitive game.

 

[seansherm]

I never said I thought the poor play was a reflection on him. I just think an ideal complement to Dylan at the second guard spot is going play a role of stepping ups quietly as a leader - the anchor of sorts to the offense - and having prior experience being party of a winning (or even just average but competitive) program is a helpful attribute. One he lacks compared to the other candidates. he is also brand new to Rutgers and major conference basketball in general. Also - there has to be a mental adjustment involved with the scaled back usage he’s about to experience. I know you keep mentioning J Will as high usage but going from 10ish shot attempts to 6 or 7 is vastly different from going from 18-19ish shot attempts down to 6-7.

Now in terms of his offensive production - yeah with that it’s possible I’m overrating the impact of garbage time and accumulating offense during meaningless PT. To be fair, I’m consistent. I felt the exact same way about GG supposedly “coming on” at the end of the season. I put a premium on how a kid performs when it actually matters. I understand though that not everyone does.

I really don't keep bringing up J Will as high usage, I've just pointed out he took the most shots after he got here, and I'm not sure he made anyone around him play better, which was what I expected out of him. He also disappeared for long stretches, which was what made me question his leadership abilities. It seems by all accounts he is taking a leadership role this off season, which is great. I do agree we need some veteran leadership, which is also why I've come around a little on Martini. I don't expect big numbers from him, but I do now expect leadership we need. I do think JWill can provide that as well.

You keep mentioning Acuff and production in meaningless losses, but his numbers were drastically better in wins, shooting less, scoring more while shooting 8% better overall and 5% better from 3 last year. He also rebounded better in wins. It seems more he became less focused and efficient during those meaningless losses. Whether that's a good thing, is a different story.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I really don't keep bringing up J Will as high usage, I've just pointed out he took the most shots after he got here, and I'm not sure he made anyone around him play better, which was what I expected out of him. He also disappeared for long stretches, which was what made me question his leadership abilities. It seems by all accounts he is taking a leadership role this off season, which is great. I do agree we need some veteran leadership, which is also why I've come around a little on Martini. I don't expect big numbers from him, but I do now expect leadership we need. I do think JWill can provide that as well.

You keep mentioning Acuff and production in meaningless losses, but his numbers were drastically better in wins, shooting less, scoring more while shooting 8% better overall and 5% better from 3 last year. He also rebounded better in wins. It seems more he became less focused and efficient during those meaningless losses. Whether that's a good thing, is a different story.

I guess we’ll just see. Your last point was going to be a fore gone conclusion. Obviously when one guy takes 19 shots a game the handful of games where that player shoots very well are the mostly likely to be wins. All I’m saying is that it’s quite possible close to half of Acuff’s total PT was attained through garbage time minutes simply because of the team situation he’s been in. It’s not his fault but I just don’t consider that data reliable (see Agee). Gavin might be vastly improved next season, but I’m of the belief that would be based off of progress in the off season moreso than the fact that he hit a few shots at the end of the season when the team had packed it in. I understand that others view this differently. It’s just my opinion and I’ll be thrilled to be wrong.

 

[seansherm]

I guess we’ll just see. Your last point was going to be a fore gone conclusion. Obviously when one guy takes 19 shots a game the handful of games where that player shoots very well are the mostly likely to be wins. All I’m saying is that it’s quite possible close to half of Acuff’s total PT was attained through garbage time minutes simply because of the team situation he’s been in. It’s not his fault but I just don’t consider that data reliable (see Agee). Gavin might be vastly improved next season, but I’m of the belief that would be based off of progress in the off season moreso than the fact that he hit a few shots at the end of the season when the team had packed it in. I understand that others view this differently. It’s just my opinion and I’ll be thrilled to be wrong.

I know we are just going back and forth with nonsense now, but you don't think half of JWill's stats came in meaningless garbage time? 10 of the 12 games he played in were games decided by double digits. I think Acuff was in 13 double digit games and he played the whole year. He also only averaged 16 shots in wins, JWill 12, really not a huge difference when you consider what was around them.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I know we are just going back and forth with nonsense now, but you don't think half of JWill's stats came in meaningless garbage time? 10 of the 12 games he played in were games decided by double digits. I think Acuff was in 13 double digit games and he played the whole year. He also only averaged 16 shots in wins, JWill 12, really not a huge difference when you consider what was around them.

I watched every minute of J Will’s playing time. I feel like I know exactly what we’re getting with him and seeing what he did for us in those first 4 games back was enough for me. I’m not analyzing his stat line at all because I don’t feel like I need to.

Acuff is the newcomer who has never played for a major conference team or even a competitive midmajor for that matter. Eastern Michigan was a bad team that wasn’t competitive in a bad conference. The fact that they did better when Acuff got hurt is telling to me considering he was supposedly their only option on offense. I get that it was only 2 games but they won one and nearly pulled the upset in the other against a better team in their conference tournament. And now he’s also going to be rehabbing his way back from injury.

 

[seansherm]

I watched every minute of J Will’s playing time. I feel like I know exactly what we’re getting with him and seeing what he did for us in those first 4 games back was enough for me. I’m not analyzing his stat line at all because I don’t feel like I need to.

Acuff is the newcomer who has never played for a major conference team or even a competitive midmajor for that matter. Eastern Michigan was a bad team that wasn’t competitive in a bad conference. The fact that they did better when Acuff got hurt is telling to me considering he was supposedly their only option on offense. I get that it was only 2 games but they won one and nearly pulled the upset in the other against a better team in their conference tournament. And now he’s also going to be rehabbing his way back from injury.

The injury definitely has me worried, its not ideal, and changes my hopes a bit. Its just funny to me that four games of JWill (not all 12) has you so sure (I agree, we know what JWill gives) but someone without those four games is a giant question mark. 4 games.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

The injury definitely has me worried, its not ideal, and changes my hopes a bit. Its just funny to me that four games of JWill (not all 12) has you so sure (I agree, we know what JWill gives) but someone without those four games is a giant question mark. 4 games.

No dude. It’s not like that. Those 4 games were just the first look at J Will. He was awesome and rejuvenated a team that was dead in the water - 4 straight games. Obviously once there was film on him, adjustments were going to be made and then Mag quit on us which was the final nail in the coffin for a team that was collectively flawed on offense. He tried to do too much in some games after that which brought down his efficiency numbers somewhat but none of that is relevant to next year. The vision of the role he could play as an anchor was planted. I don’t care about his garbage time scoring any more than Gavin’s or Acuff’s but overall - on a relative basis - I’m impressed by his jumping in for only 12 games (all against BIG teams), leading the team in scoring, second to Cliff in rebounding, second or better in pretty much every metric. It’s not so easy to join something midstream and take over instantly as the leader.

From Acuff - you saw the opposite with his team rising up and performing well when he got hurt. That lends the question - was he really their only option on a MAC level offense? To be clear also - I’m not saying all of his shots were made in garbage time - the point is we didn’t follow his team whereas we watched all the J Will games. I’m looking at the big picture and observing that he played in weak leagues throughout his career on unsuccessful teams (a lot of lopsided losses against cupcakes). His stats alone just dont excite me that much is all. If you stuck Derek in the MAC and let him take 19 shots a game, he’d probably break 20 most of the time too.

 

[seansherm]

No dude. It’s not like that. Those 4 games were just the first look at J Will. He was awesome and rejuvenated a team that was dead in the water - 4 straight games. Obviously once there was film on him, adjustments were going to be made and then Mag quit on us which was the final nail in the coffin for a team that was collectively flawed on offense. He tried to do too much in some games after that which brought down his efficiency numbers somewhat but none of that is relevant to next year. The vision of the role he could play as an anchor was planted. I don’t care about his garbage time scoring any more than Gavin’s or Acuff’s but overall - on a relative basis - I’m impressed by his jumping in for only 12 games (all against BIG teams), leading the team in scoring, second to Cliff in rebounding, second or better in pretty much every metric. It’s not so easy to join something midstream and take over instantly as the leader.

From Acuff - you saw the opposite with his team rising up and performing well when he got hurt. That lends the question - was he really their only option on a MAC level offense? To be clear also - I’m not saying all of his shots were made in garbage time - the point is we didn’t follow his team whereas we watched all the J Will games. I’m looking at the big picture and observing that he played in weak leagues throughout his career on unsuccessful teams (a lot of lopsided losses against cupcakes). His stats alone just dont excite me that much is all. If you stuck Derek in the MAC and let him take 19 shots a game, he’d probably break 20 most of the time too.

I'm with you on Acuff stats from last year not really representing anything. We also don't need close to that kind of shot taking out of him. We just need a guy that can hit shots when they are there, and he's proven to do that at a decent clip. People are gaga over Hayes (one guy called him one of best shooters in country), but expect nothing from Acuff, which is weird to me. I'm a guy that always favors the returning player over a transfer in, and I do think JWill is a better overall basketball player, but Acuff brings something we needed desperately from a veteran. I wish we could combine JWill's strengths with Acuff's, then you have the perfect complement to Dylan, or maybe another Dylan. Ha.

Now facts. JWill was not the second leading rebounder once he got here, Hyatt had more and Davis had just as many as JWill in those games. Simpson, I think had as many assts. Davis and Simpson had more steals while Hyatt and Cliff had like one fewer. JWill took almost 40 shots more than Cliff in that time, only scored 29 more, and people get on Cliff for not playing better.

 

[Tango Two]

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Loyer is inconsistent and yes without Edey let us see how good he is.

My thought exactly. So many opponent guards were constantly looking to help on an Edey feed for a possible strip.. or simply to mess with his timing.

 

[GRU23]

Dylan was the clear cut 1 in EYBL ball. High school he had the shorter guard but I wouldn’t say he was always clearly the lead ball handler, there were plenty of games Dylan took on that role, especially when playing against better teams. If you watch Don Bosco vs Long Island Lutheran, there is zero question who the lead ball handler in that game was.

 

[GRU23]

I am in the exact same boat here.

Watch Don Bosco vs Long Island Lutheran.

 

[RutgHoops]

So our situation in July is we might have the best backcourt in the B1G and we might have an All-American at Small Forward?

That seems good.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I'm with you on Acuff stats from last year not really representing anything. We also don't need close to that kind of shot taking out of him. We just need a guy that can hit shots when they are there, and he's proven to do that at a decent clip. People are gaga over Hayes (one guy called him one of best shooters in country), but expect nothing from Acuff, which is weird to me. I'm a guy that always favors the returning player over a transfer in, and I do think JWill is a better overall basketball player, but Acuff brings something we needed desperately from a veteran. I wish we could combine JWill's strengths with Acuff's, then you have the perfect complement to Dylan, or maybe another Dylan. Ha.

Now facts. JWill was not the second leading rebounder once he got here, Hyatt had more and Davis had just as many as JWill in those games. Simpson, I think had as many assts. Davis and Simpson had more steals while Hyatt and Cliff had like one fewer. JWill took almost 40 shots more than Cliff in that time, only scored 29 more, and people get on Cliff for not playing better.

J Will finished with the highest scoring average on the team at 12.2 (and he didn’t play cupcakes). He finished second on the team in per game assists right behind Derek (but again - he did not play any mid majors). He finished second on the team in per game steals too (again behind Simpson, but again noting that he did not play against the cupcakes). I may have missed Hyatt in the rebounding stats, but J Will definitely led our guards in overall per game rebounds for the season - and again noting he did not collect any stats against the smaller, weaker, cupcakes.

To come in - join a team for only the last 12 games and have this kind of impact means something. Pike didn’t owe Williams anything. He earned his time out there the old fashioned way.

 

[seansherm]

J Will finished with the highest scoring average on the team at 12.2 (and he didn’t play cupcakes). He finished second on the team in per game assists right behind Derek (but again - he did not play any mid majors). He finished second on the team in per game steals too (again behind Simpson, but again noting that he did not play against the cupcakes). I may have missed Hyatt in the rebounding stats, but J Will definitely led our guards in overall per game rebounds for the season - and again noting he did not collect any stats against the smaller, weaker, cupcakes.

To come in - join a team for only the last 12 games and have this kind of impact means something. Pike didn’t owe Williams anything. He earned his time out there the old fashioned way.

Oh, you are comparing his 12 game season to everyone else's 30 something. I was comparing his 12 to others in the same 12 games, otherwise the stats are meaningless.
Look, he was the 2nd best player on last years team, and best guard, he should have had a big impact, especially with the minutes and responsibilities he was given right off the bat. Leading the team in scoring when you take 30% more shots than everyone in the same time period doesn't really mean much. Earned his time? I'm sure he did, based off of how he practiced. He started and played like 30 minutes in his first appearance, you can't say he earned that off his play. He made an impact, but actually wasn't excellent that game either.

 

[seansherm]

So our situation in July is we might have the best backcourt in the B1G and we might have an All-American at Small Forward?

That seems good.

Very good start

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Oh, you are comparing his 12 game season to everyone else's 30 something. I was comparing his 12 to others in the same 12 games, otherwise the stats are meaningless.
Look, he was the 2nd best player on last years team, and best guard, he should have had a big impact, especially with the minutes and responsibilities he was given right off the bat. Leading the team in scoring when you take 30% more shots than everyone in the same time period doesn't really mean much. Earned his time? I'm sure he did, based off of how he practiced. He started and played like 30 minutes in his first appearance, you can't say he earned that off his play. He made an impact, but actually wasn't excellent that game either.

He earned it. We rattled off 4 straight wins upon his return and the impact he had was obvious to everyone. Go back and look at the discussions. It was unanimous. That’s not an easy thing to do - just come in and take over a team.

Compare that with GG, for example, who got playing time based on his star ranking and potential. Pike had no more allegiance to J Will than he did to A Will, Noah, or any of the others. Certainly he’d have the most allegiance to Simpson, if anything. Or Davis. Who had been playing all season.

On your other point, I see it differently. I’m not sure why you wouldn’t look at an entire season’s worth of data where all the core rotation players averaged 23-27 mpg including J Will. If anything - that is most unfair to J Will as he didn’t have the opportunity the other had to rack up steals and such against LIU and company.

 

[seansherm]

He earned it. We rattled off 4 straight wins upon his return and the impact he had was obvious to everyone. Go back and look at the discussions. It was unanimous. That’s not an easy thing to do - just come in and take over a team.

Compare that with GG, for example, who got playing time based on his star ranking and potential. Pike had no more allegiance to J Will than he did to A Will, Noah, or any of the others. Certainly he’d have the most allegiance to Simpson, if anything. Or Davis. Who had been playing all season.

On your other point, I see it differently. I’m not sure why you wouldn’t look at an entire season’s worth of data where all the core rotation players averaged 23-27 mpg including J Will. If anything - that is most unfair to J Will as he didn’t have the opportunity the other had to rack up steals and such against LIU and company.

When the team is a disaster, and you have been the best player in practice (at least that's what we heard), it's not that difficult to jump in and make a difference, especially at the PG spot where you have the ball often. Slightly above average play looks like a superstar compared to what we were putting out there prior.

Sadly, you recruit these kids with promises of playing time nowadays, and they don't stay if they don't get it. I don't think Pike, or anyone, really could have expected GG to not improve as the year went on. Even with that, I still think he's a loss to us.

If I'm looking at data, I'd rather look at the numbers where everyone played an equal schedule, with an equal rotation of guys. You say it's unfair to include early data since JWill didn't get to play then, so just eliminate it. Why should JMike's first games as a collegian count against him when looking against a JWill, whose first game was the 39th of his career.