Rutgers College arts and sciences vs Indiana

[RUfubar]

One of my partner's kids wants to go to Hoosier ville (the father went there for Music/cellist) instead of Rutgers College NB for Bio/Psyche. She applied to those 2 schools and Maine.
She (the kid) usually gets what she wants and supposedly the money is a wash due to an alleged scholarship.
Anyone with any opinions re R vs I ?

 

[e5fdny]

RC?

 

[RUfubar]

RC?

Yes, Rutgers New Brunswick

 

[gef21]

RC?

Rutgers college.

 

[colbert17]

I thought you were talking Roselle Catholic.

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

One of my partner's kids wants to go to Hoosier ville (the father went there for Music/cellist) instead of Rutgers College NB for Bio/Psyche. She applied to those 2 schools and Maine.
She (the kid) usually gets what she wants and supposedly the money is a wash due to an alleged scholarship.
Anyone with any opinions re R vs I ?

I spent a little time in Bloomington for work, and frankly I don't think I would have lasted a semester there...slooooooooowwww

 

[NotInRHouse]

One of my partner's kids wants to go to Hoosier ville (the father went there for Music/cellist) instead of Rutgers College NB for Bio/Psyche. She applied to those 2 schools and Maine.
She (the kid) usually gets what she wants and supposedly the money is a wash due to an alleged scholarship.
Anyone with any opinions re R vs I ?

Rutgers College is no more as of 2007. Now it's the School of Arts and Sciences.

I graduated 07 from RC and the kids from my HS that went to Indiana did not get into RU, including a friend of mine whose balls I got to finally bust over us beating them in bball after so much Ash era shame in football.

I'm not really sure which programs IU has better than RU. I know their business school is considered good but I'm not sure it's better than ours. Their law school is pretty good. Other than that I don't see it.

 

[e5fdny]

People say it’s a very nice campus and Bloomington is a very college friendly town.

 

[RUfubar]

Now she's telling me the kid was also accepted to Maine and wants to go there.
what's interesting is the amount of gift money they give them to lower the tuition and expenses even though her family is far from needy. But they expect them to maintain a certain GPA.I would have expected these colleges out of state to be much more than in-state for Rutgers but considering these gifts they give out it's not.

 

[e5fdny]

Now she's telling me the kid was also accepted to Maine and wants to go there. What's interesting is the amount of gift money they give them to lower the tuition and expenses even though her family is far from needy. But they expect them to maintain a certain GPA.I would have expected these colleges out of state to be much more than in-state for Rutgers but considering these gifts they give out it's not.

Having gone thru this recently I can say this is true. Especially for NJ kids.

The see on the application you're from NJ and if they want you they try and match (or get close) what the flagship charges in state.

 

[Will Scarlet]

I did my undergrad at Rutgers College, which is of course now part of the School of Arts and Sciences of Rutgers University ;-). But, I've also physically been to the Universities of Indiana and Maine. I don't know anything about the reputations of their respective departments in the STEM field. But, in my opinion, RU and Indiana are generally comparable in terms of reputations as universities and are similar in terms of size and overall available academic, and social opportunities, etc. Maine is far different.

A quick check just showed that USNRW currently ranks RU as #64 and Indiana as #79 among National Universities. But, rankings in this zone are known to be fairly fluid. The schools could easily swap places next year. Indiana impressed me a being more of a traditional "Big Ten" school than RU--very vanilla, midwestern vibe, one big sprawling campus in typical college town, far larger residential greek presence (many large frat and sorority houses, etc.). But, most RU students would easily adjust to IU and vice versa.

Each RU and IU are three or four times larger than Maine, ranked much better (Maine's USNWR # is 202) and obviously have far greater financial resources. Academic buildings, dorms, athletic facilities, etc. at UM simply didn't measure-up to what we have or what I saw at IU. UM really comes across more as a large college than a university. And, most SUNY campuses (I'm from NY) are far more cosmopolitan. This doesn't mean that UM isn't a great school. It just makes do with less and lacks a research university vibe present at each RU and IU

My advice, when making her decision, this kid should remember that regardless of the school, the vast majority of her fellow students will be from the state where the university is located and the school's reputation and connections will be more important in that state than in any other state. IU is more relevant in Indiana, just as Rutgers is more relevant in New Jersey, etc.

Also, FWIW, it just seems unlikely that IU would offer an out-of-state student, even a legacy, an academic scholarship (she won't qualify for need-based aid) that would match Rutgers' instate tuition, as it would be worth around $20K a year. In this regard, if this kid is such a stellar student, she should be able to qualify for some sort of academic award at RU, as well, which would definitively render RU the more affordable option. And, with RU, you also avoid another $3-5K, or so, annually in incidental costs associated with having your kid attend an institution that's ~12-hours from home (ask any parent who pays to fly his kid home for Thanksgiving).

Assuming an RU degree could easily be, at least, $50K cheaper for this kid than a diploma from IU and the two schools have comparable rankings and atmospheres, I'd easily pick RU in the absence of some sort of specific reason (like an amazing bio department at IU, etc.). For me, Maine wouldn't even enter into the equation--it's a college that calls itself a university. Just my two cents.

 

[RUfubar]

I did my undergrad at Rutgers College, which is of course now part of the School of Arts and Sciences of Rutgers University ;-). But, I've also physically been to the Universities of Indiana and Maine. I don't know anything about the reputations of their respective departments in the STEM field. But, in my opinion, RU and Indiana are generally comparable in terms of reputations as universities and are similar in terms of size and overall available academic, and social opportunities, etc. Maine is far different.

A quick check just showed that USNRW currently ranks RU as #64 and Indiana as #79 among National Universities. But, rankings in this zone are known to be fairly fluid. The schools could easily swap places next year. Indiana impressed me a being more of a traditional "Big Ten" school than RU--very vanilla, midwestern vibe, one big sprawling campus in typical college town, far larger residential greek presence (many large frat and sorority houses, etc.). But, most RU students would easily adjust to IU and vice versa.

Each RU and IU are three or four times larger than Maine, ranked much better (Maine's USNWR # is 202) and obviously have far greater financial resources. Academic buildings, dorms, athletic facilities, etc. at UM simply didn't measure-up to what we have or what I saw at IU. UM really comes across more as a large college than a university. And, most SUNY campuses (I'm from NY) are far more cosmopolitan. This doesn't mean that UM isn't a great school. It just makes do with less and lacks a research university vibe present at each RU and IU

My advice, when making her decision, this kid should remember that regardless of the school, the vast majority of her fellow students will be from the state where the university is located and the school's reputation and connections will be more important in that state than in any other state. IU is more relevant in Indiana, just as Rutgers is more relevant in New Jersey, etc.

Also, FWIW, it just seems unlikely that IU would offer an out-of-state student, even a legacy, an academic scholarship (she won't qualify for need-based aid) that would match Rutgers' instate tuition, as it would be worth around $20K a year. In this regard, if this kid is such a stellar student, she should be able to qualify for some sort of academic award at RU, as well, which would definitively render RU the more affordable option. And, with RU, you also avoid another $3-5K, or so, annually in incidental costs associated with having your kid attend an institution that's ~12-hours from home (ask any parent who pays to fly his kid home for Thanksgiving).

Assuming an RU degree could easily be, at least, $50K cheaper for this kid than a diploma from IU and the two schools have comparable rankings and atmospheres, I'd easily pick RU in the absence of some sort of specific reason (like an amazing bio department at IU, etc.). For me, Maine wouldn't even enter into the equation--it's a college that calls itself a university. Just my two cents.

Wow thank you ..what I call a comprehensive answer

 

[Will Scarlet]

Wow thank you ..what I call a comprehensive answer

My wife always says I'm long winded. Please let me explain in detail why she's incorrect. Article I, Section A, Part 1, Sub-Part (a) . . . .

 

[srru86]

Only been to Bloomington for football games.

It is a very nice campus and the town is quite nice. But one of the sleepier B1G campus towns in my experience. It's the sort of place where it's tough to get a nice restaurant meal at 9:00 PM on a Friday because most of the places have closed for the evening.

Also keep in mind that if occasional trips to the big city are desired. RU is one hour to NYC. Bloomington is one hour to Indianapolis. Which is a city - but a relatively sleepy one.

If small town - laid back feel is what is desired Bloomington might work.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Not sure why this thread was moved especially in the off season.

Generally unless the kid doesn't get into RU/TCNJ I really don't understand the appeal of OOS that isn't Michigan/UVA/UNC/Berkeley/UCLA. Those would be worth it. GT or W&M I could also buy. Otherwise doesn't make much sense.

 

[retired711]

Not sure why this thread was moved especially in the off season.

Generally unless the kid doesn't get into RU/TCNJ I really don't understand the appeal of OOS that isn't Michigan/UVA/UNC/Berkeley/UCLA. Those would be worth it. GT or W&M I could also buy. Otherwise doesn't make much sense.

I know I'm always saying this to you, but some people just prefer a different vibe from Rutgers'. Perhaps someone doesn't like cities. Different strokes for different folks. And the availability of scholarship money for OOS students means that for many parents, it doesn't make that much difference where the child goes. This, of course, is a problem for Rutgers.

One point above is really true: where she goes to college is likely to influence where she will be after college. She needs to think about that.

 

[e5fdny]

Not sure why this thread was moved especially in the off season.

Generally unless the kid doesn't get into RU/TCNJ I really don't understand the appeal of OOS that isn't Michigan/UVA/UNC/Berkeley/UCLA. Those would be worth it. GT or W&M I could also buy. Otherwise doesn't make much sense.

I know I'm always saying this to you, but some people just prefer a different vibe from Rutgers'. Perhaps someone doesn't like cities. Different strokes for different folks. And the availability of scholarship money for OOS students means that for many parents, it doesn't make that much difference where the child goes. This, of course, is a problem for Rutgers.

One point above is really true: where she goes to college is likely to influence where she will be after college. She needs to think about that.

Although they might seem contradictory to some there is lots to agree with both of these posts.

 

[RUfubar]

Not sure why this thread was moved especially in the off season.

Generally unless the kid doesn't get into RU/TCNJ I really don't understand the appeal of OOS that isn't Michigan/UVA/UNC/Berkeley/UCLA. Those would be worth it. GT or W&M I could also buy. Otherwise doesn't make much sense.

I'm in total agreement. I must look like a mean guy to some people - like my partner-I wouldn't let my two daughters even apply anywhere else out of state unless it was clear they could get into an ivy. In retrospect,my oldest daughter (who is now a family therapist and has two Rutgers degrees)will tell you that she wanted to push against Rutgers as an opposition/defiant teenager,but,in retrospect, she's glad I "forced' her to go there as a teenager. I'm shocked how much grant money is being afforded New Jersey kids to these out-of-state schools even if their families are affluent in order to entice them there.

 

[e5fdny]

I'm in total agreement. I must look like a mean guy to some people - like my partner-I wouldn't let my two daughters even apply anywhere else out of state unless it was clear they could get into an ivy. In retrospect,my oldest daughter (who is now a family therapist and has two Rutgers degrees)will tell you that she wanted to push against Rutgers as an opposition/defiant teenager,but,in retrospect, she's glad I "forced' her to go there as a teenager. I'm shocked how much grant money is being afforded New Jersey kids to these out-of-state schools even if their families are affluent in order to entice them there.

What’s shocking is how the state schools are now playing the game too. Privates have been doing this for awhile now.

And by state, I mean the northern ones as those down south have been loving Yankee (read NJ) money for years.

 

[retired711]

One of my older sisters sent her daughter to Georgia Tech for engineering rather than Rutgers. This was partly because GT had a co-op program. It worked out very well for the daughter, who got a prestigious job and then earned an MBA at Northwestern's Kellogg School. And I think the daughter liked having greater independence from her parents than she would have had in NJ. Like I say, there are all kinds of reasons young people might want to go elsewhere.

P.S. BTW, in my experience co-op programs don't work out well for young women because it means they have to acquire an expensive professional wardrobe to do the job. A guy can get along with two suits and some dress shirts, but women are supposed to look different every day.

 

[RUfubar]

What’s shocking is how the state schools are now playing the game too. Privates have been doing this for awhile now.

And by state, I mean the northern ones as those down south have been loving Yankee (read NJ) money for years.

I don't understand. Where is all this money coming from for out of State university's to give out to fairly well off students from New Jersey?
And we're not talking about kids with perfect SAT scores who created a longer lasting light bulb or some phenomena. Just your typical good student.
It's also interesting that the term "ru screw"is used by people without intimate knowledge
who are scared because they've heard so much about the phenomena and want to avoid it at all risk. That's actually a point that even a
Rutgers apologist like myself cannot deny. It may be real life but it's not for the weak of heart and for the overly protective neurotic parent who's trying to protect their kid at all time.
I also think that high school kids have vastly different maturity levels during the application process and different wishes and fears; some of which may sound healthy but are not necessarily so. So one kid may be maturely looking for growth and independence but another kid may have an unsound psychological wish to distance themself and then destructively act out doing so. I've seen some kids (University of West Virginia particularly comes to mind) from New Jersey and end up in all kind of trouble even though they were good students in high school.

 

[e5fdny]

I don't understand. Where is all this money coming from for out of State university's to give out to fairly well off students from New Jersey?
And we're not talking about kids with perfect SAT scores who created a longer lasting light bulb or some phenomena. Just your typical good student.
It's also interesting that the term "ru screw"is used by people without intimate knowledge
who are scared because they've heard so much about the phenomena and want to avoid it at all risk. That's actually a point that even a
Rutgers apologist like myself cannot deny. It may be real life but it's not for the weak of heart and for the overly protective neurotic parent who's trying to protect their kid at all time.

I don’t understand it either.

But having gone thru it recently with our older son I was amazed how little Rutgers offered and to hear from other parents where some of their kids got in (lessor schools) and how much (more - but probably didn’t need it).

I like others in the thread felt the same about state schools...not better than Rutgers, you’re not applying. But as I also mentioned in previous threads on this...some who got into State Penn (main campus) weren’t by any means “all-stars”, not worried at all at the quality kids we’re getting here now.

 

[RUfubar]

One of my older sisters sent her School. And I think the daughter liked having greater independence from her parents than she would have had in NJ. Like I say, there are all kinds of reasons young people might want to go elsewhere.

P.S. BTW, in my experience co-op programs don't work out well for young women because it means they have to acquire an expensive professional wardrobe to do the job. A guy can get along with two suits and some dress shirts, but women are supposed to look different every day.

And I think this is where the character of the particular young person "the millennial" comes in. Because I think that giving a long leash to some young adults Even if they are great students ,who are not ready for it can be not necessarily in their best interest. Especially that first year in college which is a major transition.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I know I'm always saying this to you, but some people just prefer a different vibe from Rutgers'. Perhaps someone doesn't like cities. Different strokes for different folks. And the availability of scholarship money for OOS students means that for many parents, it doesn't make that much difference where the child goes. This, of course, is a problem for Rutgers.

One point above is really true: where she goes to college is likely to influence where she will be after college. She needs to think about that.

I guess, but I also look at it in terms of practicality. If the parents have money to throw away I guess it's one thing. To me even if I did my recommendation would be save it up for grad school and a down payment.

 

[NotInRHouse]

One of my older sisters sent her daughter to Georgia Tech for engineering rather than Rutgers. This was partly because GT had a co-op program. It worked out very well for the daughter, who got a prestigious job and then earned an MBA at Northwestern's Kellogg School. And I think the daughter liked having greater independence from her parents than she would have had in NJ. Like I say, there are all kinds of reasons young people might want to go elsewhere.

P.S. BTW, in my experience co-op programs don't work out well for young women because it means they have to acquire an expensive professional wardrobe to do the job. A guy can get along with two suits and some dress shirts, but women are supposed to look different every day.

I would most certainly put GT in a prestigious bucket that I would not put IU or Maine.

 

[e5fdny]

I guess, but I also look at it in terms of practicality. If the parents have money to throw away I guess it's one thing. To me even if I did my recommendation would be save it up for grad school and a down payment.

You were 17 once, right?

And some parents live thru/for their kids so this can’t be too surprising, right?

 

[e5fdny]

I would most certainly put GT in a prestigious bucket that I would not put IU or Maine.

Not too long ago Indiana was the “hot” school around these parts. And by these parts I mean certain areas of Monmouth and LI.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I'm in total agreement. I must look like a mean guy to some people - like my partner-I wouldn't let my two daughters even apply anywhere else out of state unless it was clear they could get into an ivy. In retrospect,my oldest daughter (who is now a family therapist and has two Rutgers degrees)will tell you that she wanted to push against Rutgers as an opposition/defiant teenager,but,in retrospect, she's glad I "forced' her to go there as a teenager. I'm shocked how much grant money is being afforded New Jersey kids to these out-of-state schools even if their families are affluent in order to entice them there.

When I was in HS I wanted to go to NYU. My parents basically told me they could only afford a set amount and NYU was double that amount. And I knew I would need a grad degree at some point and my parents told me they definitely couldn't afford it. So I didn't apply early decision to NYU and I didn't get in. Basically came down to RU and TCNJ, and I wanted a big school so I went to RU. Obviously I'm here so it worked out lol.

There's a lot of great things about RU that I didn't know as a HS and that my parents could never have illuminated for me- they both dropped out of a commuter college after a semester like pretty much the rest of my family. And in my HS, it was all about State Penn (which even then I didn't get) or UDel so going to RU worked for me as a contrarian 17 year old.

And then I ended up going to a law school in NYC filled with NYU grads anyway. I liked the city for 3 years but moved to JC when I graduated and I am still here. Life has a funny way of sorting itself sometimes.

 

[NotInRHouse]

You were 17 once, right?

And some parents live thru/for their kids so this can’t be too surprising, right?

You're right but it will have a big effect on the kid's life. I feel like sometimes they have to take a step back.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Not too long ago Indiana was the “hot” school around these parts. And by these parts I mean certain areas of Monmouth and LI.

Haha. Yes, my part. Not sure where it ranks these days. Like I said one of my friends did go there, but he didn't get into RU. That is a different discussion. Going to Indiana over Monmouth (which IIRC was his choice) would be one I would get behind. I could probably buy it over even a Rowan, as long as the kid knows no rooting against RU under my roof!

 

[RUJohnny99]

I don't understand. Where is all this money coming from for out of State university's to give out to fairly well off students from New Jersey?
And we're not talking about kids with perfect SAT scores who created a longer lasting light bulb or some phenomena. Just your typical good student.

Because "out of state" tuition is just a random number. Rutgers tuition is $12,232 for NJ residents and $28,595 for non-NJ residents. It doesn't cost $16,000 more to educate a kid from New Hope, PA than a kid from Lambertville, NJ. But if that PA kid has a better GPA/SAT combo than 75% of Rutgers admits, it makes sense to give that kid a $15,000 scholarship for the difference to get the kid to come and bring up Rutgers average.

Rutgers instate tuition is $12,232
Indiana's instate tuition is $10,948, OOS is $36,512
Which means Indiana can give a $25,000 "scholarship" and still get more revenue than an instate kid, IF they can find an instate kid with NJ kid study skills.

 

[RUfubar]

Because "out of state" tuition is just a random number. Rutgers tuition is $12,232 for NJ residents and $28,595 for non-NJ residents. It doesn't cost $16,000 more to educate a kid from New Hope, PA than a kid from Lambertville, NJ. But if that PA kid has a better GPA/SAT combo than 75% of Rutgers admits, it makes sense to give that kid a $15,000 scholarship for the difference to get the kid to come and bring up Rutgers average.

Rutgers instate tuition is $12,232
Indiana's instate tuition is $10,948, OOS is $36,512
Which means Indiana can give a $25,000 "scholarship" and still get more revenue than an instate kid, IF they can find an instate kid with NJ kid study skills.

So that's a point of view I didn't consider - starting to make sense if that out of state school can bring up its ranking by gambling on a kid who comes from New Jersey Roots and education system.

 

[e5fdny]

Haha. Yes, my part. Not sure where it ranks these days. Like I said one of my friends did go there, but he didn't get into RU. That is a different discussion. Going to Indiana over Monmouth (which IIRC was his choice) would be one I would get behind. I could probably buy it over even a Rowan, as long as the kid knows no rooting against RU under my roof!

This was pre-B1G too.

 

[e5fdny]

Because "out of state" tuition is just a random number. Rutgers tuition is $12,232 for NJ residents and $28,595 for non-NJ residents. It doesn't cost $16,000 more to educate a kid from New Hope, PA than a kid from Lambertville, NJ. But if that PA kid has a better GPA/SAT combo than 75% of Rutgers admits, it makes sense to give that kid a $15,000 scholarship for the difference to get the kid to come and bring up Rutgers average.

Rutgers instate tuition is $12,232
Indiana's instate tuition is $10,948, OOS is $36,512
Which means Indiana can give a $25,000 "scholarship" and still get more revenue than an instate kid, IF they can find an instate kid with NJ kid study skills.

So that's a point of view I didn't consider - starting to make sense if that out of state school can bring up its ranking by gambling on a kid who comes from New Jersey Roots and education system.

But in my example that NJ isn’t better than the instate kid.

Which confuses me to why they are still getting the better package.

Mind you, I doubt these examples I know about even got into RU-NB

 

[e5fdny]

You're right but it will have a big effect on the kid's life. I feel like sometimes they have to take a step back.

When you step back at barely 17 you might fall over your skateboard. LOL

 

[retired711]

At least some of the state universities offering these packages are located in low-growth states (Indiana, Maine, West Virginia). The schools are desperate to keep their enrollments.

A local example: Now that Penn State has a law school, Temple's law school is worried about enrollment. So they now offer tuition at lower than in-state rates to South Jerseyans (and maybe all New Jerseyans) who do well on their LSATs. Rutgers Law just doesn't have the money to compete, and so getting a quality student body has become more difficult.

 

[Knight Shift]

One of my older sisters sent her daughter to Georgia Tech for engineering rather than Rutgers. This was partly because GT had a co-op program. It worked out very well for the daughter, who got a prestigious job and then earned an MBA at Northwestern's Kellogg School. And I think the daughter liked having greater independence from her parents than she would have had in NJ. Like I say, there are all kinds of reasons young people might want to go elsewhere.

P.S. BTW, in my experience co-op programs don't work out well for young women because it means they have to acquire an expensive professional wardrobe to do the job. A guy can get along with two suits and some dress shirts, but women are supposed to look different every day.

Two points. Georgia Tech is head and shoulders a better engineering school than Rutgers. Top 10 or 15 in most engineering disciplines and computer science. As to your wardrobe comment, not sure how applicable this is for engineering interns. Most engineering jobs are casual dress, and some allow jeans.

 

[Knight Shift]

I don't understand. Where is all this money coming from for out of State university's to give out to fairly well off students from New Jersey?
And we're not talking about kids with perfect SAT scores who created a longer lasting light bulb or some phenomena. Just your typical good student.
It's also interesting that the term "ru screw"is used by people without intimate knowledge
who are scared because they've heard so much about the phenomena and want to avoid it at all risk. That's actually a point that even a
Rutgers apologist like myself cannot deny. It may be real life but it's not for the weak of heart and for the overly protective neurotic parent who's trying to protect their kid at all time.
I also think that high school kids have vastly different maturity levels during the application process and different wishes and fears; some of which may sound healthy but are not necessarily so. So one kid may be maturely looking for growth and independence but another kid may have an unsound psychological wish to distance themself and then destructively act out doing so. I've seen some kids (University of West Virginia particularly comes to mind) from New Jersey and end up in all kind of trouble even though they were good students in high school.

I know nothing of the "RU Screw" phenomenon to which you refer. I experience very little of the RU Screw 30 years ago. My son, a freshman at RU Honor College, also has not experienced the RU screw. Is there administrative inefficiency and red tape? Sure. But to call it a screw is just plain old whining, something many (not all) NJ people seem to excel at.

Our son had RU as a safety school. It turned out to be his best option after receiving his acceptances. Add to it that he was offered a very generous aid package, he said to us that it made no sense to go to another state school and waste money on out of state tuition. By the way, despite having outstanding credentials, that other school (UCLA) offered no merit aid. I have heard from @e5fdny about generous aid packages from private schools and other out of state schools. Perhaps because California is like NJ and cash-strapped, they don't offer merit aid to out of state students.

 

[retired711]

I know nothing of the "RU Screw" phenomenon to which you refer. I experience very little of the RU Screw 30 years ago. My son, a freshman at RU Honor College, also has not experienced the RU screw. Is there administrative inefficiency and red tape? Sure. But to call it a screw is just plain old whining, something many (not all) NJ people seem to excel at.

Our son had RU as a safety school. It turned out to be his best option after receiving his acceptances. Add to it that he was offered a very generous aid package, he said to us that it made no sense to go to another state school and waste money on out of state tuition. By the way, despite having outstanding credentials, that other school (UCLA) offered no merit aid. I have heard from @e5fdny about generous aid packages from private schools and other out of state schools. Perhaps because California is like NJ and cash-strapped, they don't offer merit aid to out of state students.

Unlike, say, U.Maine, the University of California has so many applicants that it does not need to buy out-of-state students to have an outstanding class. More students apply to UCLA than to any other college or university.

 

[RUnTeX]

As to your wardrobe comment, not sure how applicable this is for engineering interns. Most engineering jobs are casual dress, and some allow jeans.

Correct, it's pretty much business casual at the highest (for daily dress) for some engineering jobs. Business attire (suit/tie) usually just for important meetings, external presentations, etc.