I agree and I’m shocked that Aragona can’t find a spot. He was a top 10 p4p recruit in the country and probably has a full scholarship or close to full. You would expect them to be in the top 20 at the minimum in their 2nd year. I hope he’s not dealing with any nagging injuries. With the guys on the roster will he crack the starting lineup in his 3rd year.
Staff and recruiting question
- Thread starter ouchmyknee
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Why are you shocked? What other top 5 or 10 programs were seriously pushing for him? There's a reason he didn't redshirt. I'm not too surprised with his work to date.
I was impressed with how explosive he was in his beat the street match against Busiello. I thought maybe there was an injury holding him back last year. If there wasn’t you‘re correct and my evaluation was way off.
The coaches have upped their recruiting nationally in the last few years. We don’t have the hi at Tory the blue bloods have so getting the number 1 kid in weight classes is difficult. There are many reasons kid choose other schools, including RTC partners. Some people may feel I am too close to the program and not objective. All I can definitely say is Donny is a key guy in recruiting and developing talent as is Scott. If Scott decides to retire, I would storm Rockefeller Road campaigning for Donny to get his job.
Again, lots of excuses. I'm eager to hear what Rivera has to say. He spent time in another program and has developed nicely. I hope his intensity is not weakened by his environment.
That Busiello win was great but it's 1 match, and I haven't seen that before or after the match. I'm always cautious or even skeptical of a 1x st champ and 0 time other big tourney champ like Super 32, etc. but would love to be proven wrong. What other schools were pushing hard for him? Why did he wrestle last year? Those answers should provide some insight.
Yeah not having elite talent is an excuse. You're insufferable and have yet to answer my question of who has underperformed.
This is an example of what I see and it really gets to me:
“He’s got to finish those single legs (single leg takedowns),’’ Goodale said. “From a technique standpoint, he didn’t execute properly. Going forward, that’s what he needs to do.’’
That's what he needs to do? Oh, okay. What wasn't said in any of this was where the coach has the responsibility to help make that happen.
“He’s got to finish those single legs (single leg takedowns),’’ Goodale said. “From a technique standpoint, he didn’t execute properly. Going forward, that’s what he needs to do.’’
That's what he needs to do? Oh, okay. What wasn't said in any of this was where the coach has the responsibility to help make that happen.
You are such a fraud and try and come off as a Rutgers fan. It is obvious you are a passive aggressive Goodale hater and most of us had you pegged from the beginning.
Yea you are right, Goodale and staff just show up in the afternoon and blow the whistle and say wrestle live and get a workout in. You have no clue what the coaches or wrestlers do to get better.
Okay, then you'll give the excuses. In no particular order:
Winston
Aragona, so far
Paetzell (doing very well now at Lehigh) (and Mackall now doing well at Iowa State)
Grello (no significant year over year improvement)
Campolattano
McDermott - remember all the hype coming in?
Turley - 5x HS champ. Has he advanced?
Metzler - was a starter. Now behind how many?
Mario Mason - did better after graduation.
All the kids' fault? What responsibility do the coaches have? I know, do you?
When Winston came in, he and Jason Welch were the two big names in the weight class. Top rated. The first time they met, Winston won; the next time, Welch won. Welch went on to AA several times and was a NCAA finalist.
Now make your excuses and blame the kids. Your turn, so drop your pom-poms and answer a question. What is the process for developing wrestlers at Rutgers? Or, of course, you can just call me a name again and not have to say anything intelligent.
Pessimistically
What MVB is 101 in wrestling. He knows better than to rush a single leg TD. What are the coaches supposed to tell him? Hey MVB this is what you learned in grammar school on a single leg TD. I have been in that room many, many times before this crazy Covid hit and the was Pollard, Leo, Donny and Scott teach and drill these kids on everything is amazing. It is up to the kids to implement them. They can’t wrestle for them and Aguilar got pinned on a middle school move!
What MVB is 101 in wrestling. He knows better than to rush a single leg TD. What are the coaches supposed to tell him? Hey MVB this is what you learned in grammar school on a single leg TD. I have been in that room many, many times before this crazy Covid hit and the was Pollard, Leo, Donny and Scott teach and drill these kids on everything is amazing. It is up to the kids to implement them. They can’t wrestle for them and Aguilar got pinned on a middle school move!
I don’t think a B1G wrestler needs to be instructed on how to finish a basic single leg takedown. That’s something you learn in middle school at the absolute latest.
Re: Aragona
I don’t think his decision to wrestle last year should be indicative of anything. He was one of the better recruits to ever land at Rutgers and he probably thought he was a better wrestler than he actually is.
I haven’t written him off yet but there definitely are concerns. A lot of it is mental. He had absolutely no confidence late last season. As weird as it sounds, Lipari transferring probably took away some of the fire. No one in the room to really challenge that spot.
I don’t think his decision to wrestle last year should be indicative of anything. He was one of the better recruits to ever land at Rutgers and he probably thought he was a better wrestler than he actually is.
I haven’t written him off yet but there definitely are concerns. A lot of it is mental. He had absolutely no confidence late last season. As weird as it sounds, Lipari transferring probably took away some of the fire. No one in the room to really challenge that spot.
This is progress. At least he was in twice(?) on the single leg against a very, high level opponent. Could have been the skill of Massa, but he failed to progress in a timely manner and lost his chances.
I Kind o
-Okay. Winston had a ton of injuries.
-Aragona, the jury is still out
-Paetzell transferred because Suriano transferred in
-Ditto re. Mackall
-Mario flamed out at Minnesota, came home and had the same issues at RU
-Campollatano flamed out at OSU; not passionate enough to wrestle in co
-Turley is fine. Let him develop.
-Love Metzler but not a BIG wrestler. Never won a state title.
-McDermott is a risk/reward guy.
-No excuse for Grello but just not an elite talent. Seems like an unselfish team first kid so I’m rooting for him.
The only example of underperforming kids you have given are transfers who underperformed elsewhere and young guys who have a lot of wrestling yet to go. What about Ken Theobold who was an all American and never won a state title or one time state champ Anthony Perrotti who was a 2x AA. Or John Van Brill, a blood round guy who never won a state title. Look , I can criticize a lot about where we are currently as a program but at least my intentions are good. What are your intentions? And what are your recommended solutions? You just sound like a troll. I hope that isn’t the case and I look forward to hearing your recommendations for improving the program.
I think the reality is like in any other sport, the further up the ladder you climb the harder it gets to go from one rung to the next. Yes SG has done a really good job establishing a top 20ish program. He deserves a lot of credit for that but we can't keep going back and using what he inherited as a crutch for why further progress has not been sustained. He has been here long enough to be judged on the merits of the recent trends in the program.
The night AA and NS won NC's was probably the greatest night in Rutgers sports history. Has he capitalized on that and getting a new facility to go along with a nice RAC dual environment? I think it depends on your expectations. Can we be a perennial top 10 team? Being in the B1G should be a draw for the elite but there are several other schools in the conference that almost seem unsurpassable (Iowa, PSU, OSU and now maybe Michigan). Given that post college professional opportunities are limited compared to some other sports, if you are good enough to get into an Ivy League school it is hard to pass on that regardless of how good a school you think RU is. In this regard it appears that SG has a more difficult job recruiting certain parochial and prep schools than Schiano had/has in football.
I am not very well versed at all in the technical aspects of wrestling but from a broader view it appears we have trouble getting guys who are aggressive offensively to score at will and earn major decisions. We also seem to lack depth on our roster. Not sure if that reflects are scholarship allocation strategy or what, but we sometimes seem clustered with capable wrestlers at several weights and then nearly bare at one or two.
I like SG a lot in how he goes about his business. He is more candid than many other coaches and believe he had represented the wrestling program and the university well. Yet we seem to be having a similar discussion about the status of the program almost annually. Given the individuality of the competition, while we all love winning duals, the program's reputation is more aligned to AA's which was a problem awhile back. These are not mutually exclusive goals as they should complement each other to some extent but winning a dual match does not seem to replicate the strength, endurance and skills needed to win an individual B1G or NCAA championship over a long weekend.
So I am good with SG for now. Is there room for improvement? Sure. Is he perhaps loyal to a fault to an assistant or two? Perhaps but it is his call and perhaps we would not be able to pay what it would take to bring in someone better. I am sure that is an issue in the current environment with no dual revenue coming.
The night AA and NS won NC's was probably the greatest night in Rutgers sports history. Has he capitalized on that and getting a new facility to go along with a nice RAC dual environment? I think it depends on your expectations. Can we be a perennial top 10 team? Being in the B1G should be a draw for the elite but there are several other schools in the conference that almost seem unsurpassable (Iowa, PSU, OSU and now maybe Michigan). Given that post college professional opportunities are limited compared to some other sports, if you are good enough to get into an Ivy League school it is hard to pass on that regardless of how good a school you think RU is. In this regard it appears that SG has a more difficult job recruiting certain parochial and prep schools than Schiano had/has in football.
I am not very well versed at all in the technical aspects of wrestling but from a broader view it appears we have trouble getting guys who are aggressive offensively to score at will and earn major decisions. We also seem to lack depth on our roster. Not sure if that reflects are scholarship allocation strategy or what, but we sometimes seem clustered with capable wrestlers at several weights and then nearly bare at one or two.
I like SG a lot in how he goes about his business. He is more candid than many other coaches and believe he had represented the wrestling program and the university well. Yet we seem to be having a similar discussion about the status of the program almost annually. Given the individuality of the competition, while we all love winning duals, the program's reputation is more aligned to AA's which was a problem awhile back. These are not mutually exclusive goals as they should complement each other to some extent but winning a dual match does not seem to replicate the strength, endurance and skills needed to win an individual B1G or NCAA championship over a long weekend.
So I am good with SG for now. Is there room for improvement? Sure. Is he perhaps loyal to a fault to an assistant or two? Perhaps but it is his call and perhaps we would not be able to pay what it would take to bring in someone better. I am sure that is an issue in the current environment with no dual revenue coming.
Let's face it. We are a good team. Not a great team. We will usually have All Americans and once in a while a potential national champ. In most years, we will be in the top 15 to 25. Let's be proud of our guys while realizing that unless there is a change at the top this is where we will be, This is reality.
Very good post and the point you made above is precisely why I have chimed in. I too appreciate what Goodale has done and I have expressed that. However, there are very childish people here that can't accept critical thinking. It's like the little kid that tells his mommy "you must not love me" when he doesn't get his way. Some can even read my mind and determine that I'm a Goodale hater; far from the truth but that satisfies their need to resist criticism.
Coaching is critical to a program and we see just how much that is true in football. Look at the programs that have turned around. Rutgers is going through that again. I've been amazed at Coastal Carolina, a relatively small school that has no chance of recruiting top talent. They entered the top twenty this year and took out Brigham Young, a higher-ranked team. I can think of nothing other than the coaching to have accomplished that.
I don't pretend to know what goes on in practices. In fact, I keep asking but no one has been able to answer my question. I can only comment about what I see and my perception that something is systemic. I think Goodale can correct it but the problem and opportunity must first be understood and the process for understanding not resisted. However, if everyone is satisfied with the excuses and the defeatist attitude that we can't compete for the various reasons repeated continuously, then, well, okay. Personally, I would like to see a more aggressive approach. I suspect that is what Rivera will be commenting about. And if I'm right, his points are what the coaches should have been promoting.
I expect better, he's in the top conference, has a brand spanking new training center and a Top 5 match atmosphere every year to sell. Sure there's more he can ask for in the SKWC and RTC, but they are still resources to exploit on the recruiting trail. What he has he should be able to recruit Top 15 talent year in and year out.
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Thanks for asking. I will respond later since I will be out the rest of the day. A troll? I don't even know what that means but I suspect it is not good. Is it someone that disagrees or has an opinion you don't like?
I will make some recommendations. My focus is not the technical aspect of wrestling. I've been removed for five decades and can't remember much of it. I did have a brief stint coaching my own sons in a program over a ten year period prior to high school. I look at it all from a process perspective and that is the question I have asked numerous times. Not a single person has attempted to answer that question. To me, that is a sign that they don't even understand the question. Imagine asking a builder how he goes about building a house and he is not able to answer. Would you be confident having a house built by him?
I will say more later unless the children just want to call me names. I really am trying to help.
OK yea not really a great example. Coastal Carolina played exactly no one, same with BYU. When schools started canceling BYU had to scramble to find opponents they didn't find one P5 school. All rankings this year were artificial as the lesser programs didn't take their usual P5 beating with only in conference games for most of P5. You give Schiano either one of those schedules and he all of a sudden looks like coach of the year.
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If your question is "What is the process for developing a wrestler?" Nobody answers because it is a basically an unanswerable question on the message board that is unique to each wrestler and up to the coaches and staff.
Every single wrestler works to improve their strength, technique and conditioning. For strength and conditioning, the development answer is pretty obvious - guys lift weights and do whatever they need to do to improve strength and conditioning.
For technique, they drill with the coaches and other wrestlers and work on what they need to improve. This would, I assume, include wrestlers from the regional training center. For example, many freshman have trouble getting out from bottom as that is something they really did not experience much in high school as they were usually the dominant wrestler. In interviews, many wrestlers said that is something they work on and need to improve. Another example, Ken Theobold really worked on his top game while here and became an AA because of it. Every match, I waited for him to put in a bow and arrow and get a turn or fall.
In other words, nobody answered because there is not a "Once Size Fits All" answer to developing a wrestler.
EDIT: I know this is a general statement as well - guys enter tourneys and use both tourney and dual matches to improve their technique and work on their mental game. Goodale has said they do that in interviews to get guys experience and improve.
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You're missing the point. Coastal Carolina aside, do you not think coaches make a difference? Let's look at Rutgers football last year versus this past season. See any improvement? Do you think that had anything to do with coaching?
I'm not missing the point the Chanticleers have always done quite well in their little pond. Winning 7 Big South titles and 1 Sun Belt title in only 17 years of football. They took advantage of a poll severely affected by Covid-19. It had nothing to do with an all of a sudden great coach.
Does coaching matter, of course it does. But so does having all the tools at your disposal to be become successful. Last time Schiano was around no way was Rutgers ponying up the money for an OC hire in Gleason's class. Greg demanded that for his assistant pool and the reason you saw such improvement. Going from 5 pts. a game in conference to 26 pts. a game. As far as Rutgers wrestling coaching staff, yes I think it needs some tweaking not from a technical stand point, but from a recruiting stand point. We need another face from the 2000's not from the ancient 1990's. The HC is doing just fine.
Did you watch Rivera’s video? I suggest you do & listen carefully. You may find it rather enlightening and answer some of your questions.
Go RU!
Diane
If you are referring to the January 4 video, it reinforces my concerns. At 5:35 he starts talking about the talent in the room and suggests a need for more focus. He also compares it to his time at Northwestern where he thought he had the opportunity to focus. I look forward to hearing more from him. What he is addressing is a coach's responsibility, whether delivered by the head coach or through delegation. I hope Rivera can help bring that focus/intensity.
One doesn't understand what one doesn't understand. I was making a point and CC was simply an example. I'm not interested in arguing the merits of my example.
Thanks for taking a shot at answering the question. What you described are elements of training and development. You are correct that every wrestler will or may have different needs and approaches. However, that is all a part of development and should be part of a development plan. The development plan is a product of the process. Process is a higher-level view and encapsulates all aspects of the program from beginning to end.
If I were to suggest a process - with the caveat that I don't know what goes on there (thus my continuous questioning), it might look something like this:
When a wrestler comes into the program, the first part of the development process might be to evaluate strengths and weaknesses. Next is to establish a formal individual program for that wrestler to address needs for improvement. That would likely include weight management, strength and conditioning, technique, and strategies.
Now, before jumping to say all that is done already, consider this part of a well-designed development program... All of those objectives should be measured where possible. Of course, something like technique will be subjectively measured. Weight, strength, and other aspects can have measures attached that track improvement or even to just ensure the wrestler is progressing.
A development process would include follow-up to assess progress, revisions to the training plan and it would involvement with the wrestler and coaches. Each wrestler would receive this and the coaches would be responsible for helping that wrestler stay on track. Of course, the wrestler has the greatest amount of responsibility to put forth the effort and commitment.
Whether or not you view my "straw man" process as valid, I've done what FoxRU asked me to do. Please understand that I have explained what a process might look like. Whether it should resemble mine or not, process is an overriding approach to managing a program and will include all aspects of development. Rutgers wrestling has a process, whether well designed or disjointed but you cannot know if it is effective if you don't understand it or can't measure. Excuses should never be a part of a winning process.
An important part of any process is metrics. When you come back and say we do all that, can you also say and show progress with every wrestler? If I were the coach and asked the strength and conditioning trainer how someone was progressing, would he be able to quantify it? I don't know. Would he say the wrestler is getting stronger or would he show the coach measures? Wrestler-A has increased his bench press from ### to ###. Increased his squat from ### and so on.
Having an effective process and understanding the process is crucial in any type of work. It allows you to see where things are progressing and where they are not. It also shows when the process itself needs to be changed.
Ummm, they are....
Paraphrasing Rivera, he said the following:
1. Without disrespecting Northwestern, NWU didn’t have the number of wrestling partners to challenge Rivera like RU does.
2. RU Wrestlers have to have “just a little more focus“. Rivera plans to put that into the culture “more” and it doesn’t happen overnight. At NWU, Rivera really got to focus because there was not much else to do out there. There is a lot to do here in NJ. Goody and Donny are really implementing that (i.e., focus) in the culture.
3. Rivera spoke highly of Goody as a Head Coach and Donny as his work out Coach.
4. In recent articles, Rivera was quoted that he was going to speak to and call out his brothers (RU wrestlers) to do more, dig deeper, after Michigan. Goody said he never had that level of leadership from any of his wrestlers. Coaches can preach and preach but they need help and back up from their wrestlers (more than one/two) to walk the walk and talk the talk, ALL the time, EVERY day. Sounds to me (but I am not in practice as neither are any other fans), that they have been implementing it for quite some time but it hasn’t been on a top #1-3 level....yet.
You wanted a candid comparison of someone who went to another BIG University. You got one.
Every program should ALWAYS assess the state of its program and what they can do better and better and better. They should NEVER be satisfied. There is always room for growth. It never ends.
Going back to my couch 😁!
Have a nice day!
Go RU!
Diane
FYI: When I took a private tour of the RU Wrestling room at the APC, the work out room had EXACTLY those metrics and progressions for EACH individual wrestler. It mapped out a daily work out plan, how well they did for each rep (warm up, cool down, intensity levels), etc. It was highly individualized and highly measurable as to progression and efficiency. It was down to a science, all via computer AND video so they could even watch their technique.
UPDATE: This isn’t old Rutgers anymore (The Barn, where our 2 Nattys trained AND won, imagine that). The APC is loaded. Locker rooms and amenities are insane. They have everything they need to be successful, including access to onsite medical treatments and staff; full work out room with every technology imaginable & implemented for every wrestler; their own snack area in their lounge plus a cafe on their floor; AND a designated academic advisor to help with time management and academics.
Go RU!
Diane
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Anthony Cassar, who achieved many times more than his high school ranking. Don’t think he was a NJ high school champ..
He was an undefeated NJ State Champ his senior season after not qualifying for states previously
Quick update here. After transferring from ASU to PSU (where he originally committed), Busiello is no longer on PSU roster and social media rumors are that his career is done or he's retired (burnt out?). He was a 5x NYS champ and 3x Super 32 champ, but didn't place at S32 his senior year and then lost to Aragona at BTS. How is Cael failing to develop these top recruits...😜 BTW, that BTS match seems cursed now, if JoJo doesn't turn a corner.
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