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The Three Man Sub Out

I think it’s a Pike philosophy thing that needs to change. He’s been about “stealing” wins and threading the needle, and trying to sneak a hockey line change in before the U-12 feels very much in that vein.
 
 
should always ride the hot hand and hot unit minus real bad fatigue or foul trouble. Especially when we are as offensively challenged as we are and don’t have bigtime scorers coming off the bench
 
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should always ride the hot hand and hot unit minus real bad fatigue or foul trouble. Especially when we are as offensively challenged as we are and don’t have bigtime scorers coming off the bench
Best run in Pikiell history, that four-game stretch in Feb. 2022, the starters were playing like 35 mins a game. Wonder if he goes to that this year at some point
 
Best run in Pikiell history, that four-game stretch in Feb. 2022, the starters were playing like 35 mins a game. Wonder if he goes to that this year at some point
yep. play the starting five and j mike. Maybe give gavin a little run just to see if he can hit a few shots and develop his confidence. Don’t need to see Fernandez and Oscar as they aren’t here next year anyways. Wolf can play a few minutes to spell Cliff but he has regressed bigtime as well
 
The mass subs can be great if you are playing a high energy level and the subs are just as good as the guys that are coming out. That is not the case this year. Sometimes this feels like when I coached church league for my kids and all kids were required to get as even playing time as possible. Our subs feel like they are scripted before the games, especially in the first half.
 
Those were better starters
Agreed, we had much better players back in 2022. Pike could have worked the substitutions differently but at some point he has to take guys out and rest them. I wish he would just take guys out in a staggered fashion as opposed to two at a time, three at a time, four at a time, etc.. I don’t think they were winning that game today no matter what Pike did with his subbing, but they may have stayed competitive later into the game, and also not given up a 19-0 run.
 
Just talking to my friend at my house and we went through all the +/- of players and it’s clear as day who should be playing and who should not.
The pike method of auto subs and wholesale changes is TERRIBLE
 
After regaining a one point lead at the 14:13 mark of the 2nd half….Why?

When these young men are on a little run you really can shorten your bench imo
I don’t get it these kids are 21 years old they get a tv time out 4 minutes there’s no no reason you can’t ride them for more time when they are playing so well like that
 
Problem is the roster. I get zaps point and it’s fair but imo it’s shuffling chairs on the titanic for this squad. When we get better players they will play extended minutes but it’s a fair question
 
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I have advocates a shorten bench for a while …

Our bench is the huge issue right .

I don’t put JMIke in the bench issue
You should. End of the half and the above substitution at 14 minutes cost us the game. Immediately went into droughts. Both times that was Davis.
Last game 21 minutes, four turnovers and no assists hurt us immensely.
Today he hurt us. Missed foul shots again and full court one on five was ridiculous. I know he helped us get Ace but he is major part of bench issue.
 
I don’t get the sense Pike has that urgency yet that we must win. He keeps talking about us getting better, more guys coming, etc. I appreciate that some of it is coach speak but it seems Pike is still content to tinker rather than picking his 6-7 guys and playing them huge minutes.
 
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Oskar is playing way too much, he should be getting the same minutes as Aiden Terry.

He does nothing at a d-1 level…forget a big ten level.
 
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Oskar is playing way too much, he should be getting the same minutes as Aiden Terry.

He does nothing at a d-1 level…forget a big ten level.
Actually Palmquist has a good +/- compared to many others on defense at least.
I’m not a fan with the eyeball test but if you go look at the analytics there are about 7ppl who should play and that’s it
 
You should. End of the half and the above substitution at 14 minutes cost us the game. Immediately went into droughts. Both times that was Davis.
Last game 21 minutes, four turnovers and no assists hurt us immensely.
Today he hurt us. Missed foul shots again and full court one on five was ridiculous. I know he helped us get Ace but he is major part of bench issue.
He's one of the more talented players on the team. He was leading us in assist to turnover ratio much of the season. He's trying too hard to make plays now, which talented guys on struggling teams will do. But he's not part of the bench "issue" anymore than Hyatt and Mag are part of the starters issue. He just needs to play within himself and stop pressing.
 
He's one of the more talented players on the team. He was leading us in assist to turnover ratio much of the season. He's trying too hard to make plays now, which talented guys on struggling teams will do. But he's not part of the bench "issue" anymore than Hyatt and Mag are part of the starters issue. He just needs to play within himself and stop pressing.
As GS has said numerous times, you can play with your hair on fire and let it fly with full confidence within a structure and system.
When you know exactly what your assignment and roll is you’re far more likely to succeed.
I’m not sure there’s much structure, there seems to be a lot of create, react and allow your abilities to take over.
The problem is at this level the opposing player is equally talented, if he’s playing within a designed structure where he knows his exact roll…. He’s gonna get the better of you.
Going 1 on 5 tells me there’s not much going on scheme wise
 
against michigan state we actually ran some decent stuff including a continuity set that we see in high school a lot with diagonal back screens and screen the screener action. We actually got some layups and looks off of it too. First time i’ve seen us run anything like that. We also had some other good action that we either got decent looks and missed or michigan state finally started to snuff out and our players aren’t good enough to create with limited space.

Hopefully we can continue some of this for the rest of the year.
 
I have advocates a shorten bench for a while …

Our bench is the huge issue right .

I don’t put JMIke in the bench issue …
Of course you don’t but he was yesterday. Both times we went into the long droughts he was on the court.
In a season of bad offense probably worse and most selfish play of the year with the full court one on five drive.
Saving ball to opponent under their own basket. Basketball 101 do not do.
And the game before. 21 minutes 4 turnovers no assists.
Dangerously close to shooting less than 40 % from the line.
I’m sure he’ll get better but he’s been a big part of the problem last few games.
 
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Here are your top 7

BPM (box score +/-) : in order taking out walk ons
Hyatt
Cliff
Mag
Simpson
Palm
Williams
Woolf
——-
Noah
JMike
Gavin

Reference: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/rutgers/men/2024.html
Exactly why I would never and DO NOT like the wholesale subs Pike makes. When MSU went on that 19-0 run we also could see with our eyeballs it was a recipe for disaster and do not need the analytics to tell us that. That said, the numbers don’t lie and no way that Noah, JMike, Palm and Woolf should be in the floor together EVER. This is why I prefer single subs to spell a guy here or there for a breather so you don’t lose the top end momentum.
 
Shell…. Saw the same thing and posted in a different thread we actually executed things properly.
Yes and this shows we do have an offense and sets. The issue to me is we get guys who want to play hero ball and once they get any opening want the ISO 1:1 and typically settle for a mid range. Either due to shot clock expiry or just lack of looking for others

Question is do the coaches hold them accountable? As we can see they don’t have many other options to choose from if they bench anyone
 
Thank you! Revealing.
It’s why I would shorten my bench and limit subs to 1 possibly two players at any given time.

If someone gets a hot hand than ride them.

I go back to the Illinois game when Williams was making big plays for us and then coach pulled him. Made no sense. We know how that game ended!
 
BPM is 90% garbage.....Real + / - is preferred. Looking at real + /- might only be 70% garbage.

@fluoxetine can opine
Uh, I'm not too sure. I think the state of the art stat along these lines is an adjusted +/- (i.e. actual plus/minus but adjusted for who you're on the court with and against) which is then regressed back toward BPM to smooth out some of the noise. (I think this is what RPM is?)
 
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