This defense

[seels2662]

Right now the only weakness this defense has right now is that we are real thin at many positions. If we get a little lucky and this defense stays injury free, people will talk about this defense all over the country. There are special players at every level.

 

[KnightsofChrome]

Completely Agree!

 

[derleider]

Originally posted by seels2662:
Right now the only weakness this defense has right now is that we are real thin at many positions. If we get a little lucky and this defense stays injury free, people will talk about this defense all over the country. There are special players at every level.

That would be alot of luck. Injuries happen. Its FB. We just hope that they happen to backups and replacable players.

But this will be Flood's downfall. I think he is a good enough talent evaluator to bring in some underrecruited guys that turn out to be stars. But depth will be an issue unless he turns recruiting around. Our system isnt built to really take advantage of the talents of underrecruited guys (i.e. Boise - you take spread style players before anyone else sees their value). And you cant expect even the best talent evaluator to hit often enough to make up for the lack of star power.

So if we succeed it will have to be 2006 esque - almost no injuries to high profile players on a team made up on at least one side of the ball, of upperclassmen.

 

[KnightsofChrome]

"Luck" yes but certainly possible. The thing that made the 2006 team so great, was the fact that no major injuries happened during the season, both sides of the ball. So, it's possible.

Sorry Derleider, just realized I repeated what you said about the 2006 team. Certainly true.

But, truly agree with the inability to develop 2nd and 3rd tier players fast enough.

This post was edited on 4/20 9:11 AM by KnightsofChrome

 

[seels2662]

Originally posted by derleider:

Originally posted by seels2662:
Right now the only weakness this defense has right now is that we are real thin at many positions. If we get a little lucky and this defense stays injury free, people will talk about this defense all over the country. There are special players at every level.

That would be alot of luck. Injuries happen. Its FB. We just hope that they happen to backups and replacable players.

But this will be Flood's downfall. I think he is a good enough talent evaluator to bring in some underrecruited guys that turn out to be stars. But depth will be an issue unless he turns recruiting around. Our system isnt built to really take advantage of the talents of underrecruited guys (i.e. Boise - you take spread style players before anyone else sees their value). And you cant expect even the best talent evaluator to hit often enough to make up for the lack of star power.

So if we succeed it will have to be 2006 esque - almost no injuries to high profile players on a team made up on at least one side of the ball, of upperclassmen.

Respectfully disagree der, our defense is a unique system that takes advantage of players that fit great for us but get passed up by other programs because they are 15 pounds too light.

 

[WhiteBus]

While I agree with the general premises of good first string talent you guys are crazy to even think defense can compare to the 2006 team. You either didn't watch the 2006 team or didn't watch last year's team.
They aren't close.
Let's all be happy with sustainable improvement which we can all expect to see but stop with the silly comparisons.

 

[MoobyCow]

I agree all around. We have multiple positions that look pretty good right now but could become the 2013 DBs with a couple of injuries. That isn't just true for the defense either. This team is going to have to pretty lucky injury wise to be competitive.

 

[NickKnight 1]

I agree when the Ohio State game is done, they will be talking about our defense all
over the country.

 

[MoobyCow]

Originally posted by WhiteBus:
While I agree with the general premises of good first string talent you guys are crazy to even think defense can compare to the 2006 team. You either didn't watch the 2006 team or didn't watch last year's team.
They aren't close.
Let's all be happy with sustainable improvement which we can all expect to see but stop with the silly comparisons.

Possibly, OTOH, you wouldn't have predicted the 2006 defense having watched the 2005 defense.

 

[derleider]

Originally posted by seels2662:

Originally posted by derleider:

Originally posted by seels2662:
Right now the only weakness this defense has right now is that we are real thin at many positions. If we get a little lucky and this defense stays injury free, people will talk about this defense all over the country. There are special players at every level.

That would be alot of luck. Injuries happen. Its FB. We just hope that they happen to backups and replacable players.

But this will be Flood's downfall. I think he is a good enough talent evaluator to bring in some underrecruited guys that turn out to be stars. But depth will be an issue unless he turns recruiting around. Our system isnt built to really take advantage of the talents of underrecruited guys (i.e. Boise - you take spread style players before anyone else sees their value). And you cant expect even the best talent evaluator to hit often enough to make up for the lack of star power.

So if we succeed it will have to be 2006 esque - almost no injuries to high profile players on a team made up on at least one side of the ball, of upperclassmen.

Respectfully disagree der, our defense is a unique system that takes advantage of players that fit great for us but get passed up by other programs because they are 15 pounds too light.

Hmm. Maybe - but then is it the right system to defend a conference that itself largely depends on big OLs and probably more running than average to succeed?

 

[WhiteBus]

Originally posted by MoobyCow:

Originally posted by WhiteBus:
While I agree with the general premises of good first string talent you guys are crazy to even think defense can compare to the 2006 team. You either didn't watch the 2006 team or didn't watch last year's team.
They aren't close.
Let's all be happy with sustainable improvement which we can all expect to see but stop with the silly comparisons.

Possibly, OTOH, you wouldn't have predicted the 2006 defense having watched the 2005 defense.

The 2005 team had an up and down season but the final regular season at home against Cincinnati was where you knew something special was brewing. They completely dominated. Cincinnati had -23 yards rushing. 146 total yards.

Last year team defense was a big improvement from 2013 but miles away from becoming the 2006 team.

 

[derleider]

Then the game after that they gave up record yards against ASU in the bowl. No one in the world would have predicted a top 10 defense in 2006.

 

[WhiteBus]

Originally posted by derleider:
Then the game after that they gave up record yards against ASU in the bowl. No one in the world would have predicted a top 10 defense in 2006.

Yes against an offense we never faced before or would face in 2006. You could say that the 2006 offense was going to be off the charts after that game as well but you need to be smart enough to know a game 3 weeks after the season ends shouldn't be an indication of what's coming.

Beside the RU defense did have other shut down games in 2005. They ended the season ranked 35th in the country. Last years team never stopped anyone and ended up 95th ranked.

 

[Kbee3]

Originally posted by seels2662:
Right now the only weakness this defense has right now is that we are real thin at many positions. If we get a little lucky and this defense stays injury free, people will talk about this defense all over the country. There are special players at every level.

I think corner and Snyder's spot and Kirksey's spot are still huge question marks.

 

[Rokodesh]

Originally posted by Kbee3:

Originally posted by seels2662:
Right now the only weakness this defense has right now is that we are real thin at many positions. If we get a little lucky and this defense stays injury free, people will talk about this defense all over the country. There are special players at every level.

I think corner and Snyder's spot and Kirksey's spot are still huge question marks.

corner should be much much better, way more depth than last 2 years

Barnwell - Jr
Cioffi - Jr
Boggs - Soph + year to add muscle
Austin - already D1 size
Dailey - year of S/C
Wharton - year of S/C

 

[seels2662]

Originally posted by WhiteBus:
While I agree with the general premises of good first string talent you guys are crazy to even think defense can compare to the 2006 team. You either didn't watch the 2006 team or didn't watch last year's team.
They aren't close.
Let's all be happy with sustainable improvement which we can all expect to see but stop with the silly comparisons.

Last year's defense wasn't that bad and this years will be night and day from last year. I'm glad your logic didn't work with the 2006 defense after the 2005 defense got hammered by Louisville and gave up a gazillion yards to Arizona State.

 

[RUfan121]

.................needs to gain weight up front fast.

 

[RUChoppin]

This team still has a long way to go before I'd make comparisons to 2006 (or 2005, even), but it is definitely trending upward and has a lot of potential this year.

My biggest concerns are weight up front, and some potential gaps in the middle of the defense (NT, MLB).

We were 98th in total defense last year, and 73rd the year before.... and 87th in scoring defense last year, and 80th the year before. We have a lot of ground to make up just to be "above average" in those categories.

 

[WhiteBus]

Originally posted by seels2662:

Originally posted by WhiteBus:
While I agree with the general premises of good first string talent you guys are crazy to even think defense can compare to the 2006 team. You either didn't watch the 2006 team or didn't watch last year's team.
They aren't close.
Let's all be happy with sustainable improvement which we can all expect to see but stop with the silly comparisons.

Last year's defense wasn't that bad and this years will be night and day from last year. I'm glad your logic didn't work with the 2006 defense after the 2005 defense got hammered by Louisville and gave up a gazillion yards to Arizona State.



The 2005 had great games, dominate games. Finished 35th in the nation. Last years team had no great games. Some good games and some disasters and finished 95th. The comparison between the two is utterly ridiculous.

 

[76Scarlet]

I'm encouraged by the positive attitude from several of our D guys and looks like they had a decent performance from the recent scrimmage. Like some other posters though, just a little concerned about the lack of size at least for the B10. Hope Flood can start bringing in bigger studs.

 

[MoobyCow]

The 2005 team had the following games:

45 points to USF
56 to UL and
45 to Az St

Those were 3 of the last 4.

We had 'great' games against SU (who absolutely sucked that year, 117th ranked offense) and Cinci, who was 4-7 and had the 97th ranked offense.

Amazingly enough, when we played offenses of similar ratings in 2014, we had similar games (Penn St 10 pts, offense 107), Tulane offense 113, 6 points.


The 2005 defense was better, no doubt about it, but I fail to see any really great games by that D.

 

[WhiteBus]

Originally posted by MoobyCow:
The 2005 team had the following games:

45 points to USF
56 to UL and
45 to Az St

Those were 3 of the last 4.

We had 'great' games against SU (who absolutely sucked that year, 117th ranked offense) and Cinci, who was 4-7 and had the 97th ranked offense.

Amazingly enough, when we played offenses of similar ratings in 2014, we had similar games (Penn St 10 pts, offense 107), Tulane offense 113, 6 points.


The 2005 defense was better, no doubt about it, but I fail to see any really great games by that D.

The last game was huge. Rutgers was bowl eligible but not guaranteed anything before that game, What a performance and before half you knew Cincy had no chance to mount a comeback.

My point is that there is no chance this coming years defense can become a top 10 defense. Just silly to think they can improve that much. RU moved up from 35th from 2005 to 2006. Do you really think they move from 95th to top 10 this year?

 

[Ru2bnj]

This defense may well be physically more talented than 2006 or 2012. It doesn't mean it will be any near as effective. The increase in competition from week to week is a big factor. I don't know if this defense will be a really good B1G defense. I think there is potential for it to be much better than last year. As mentioned, they need to stay healthy. Overall...there needs to be better play at the LB and secondary positions. I thought that's where most of the problems were last year. Everyone argues about how RU needs bigger players. They may need some of that...I think the bigger problem is better speed and athletic ability and smarter play by the back 7 on defense. Too many missed tackles, too many bad angles last year. There were a lot of long runs, that should have been modest gains and a tackle was not made or the defense overpursued..etc.

 

[seels2662]

Originally posted by Ru2bnj:

This defense may well be physically more talented than 2006 or 2012. It doesn't mean it will be any near as effective. The increase in competition from week to week is a big factor. I don't know if this defense will be a really good B1G defense. I think there is potential for it to be much better than last year. As mentioned, they need to stay healthy. Overall...there needs to be better play at the LB and secondary positions. I thought that's where most of the problems were last year. Everyone argues about how RU needs bigger players. They may need some of that...I think the bigger problem is better speed and athletic ability and smarter play by the back 7 on defense. Too many missed tackles, too many bad angles last year. There were a lot of long runs, that should have been modest gains and a tackle was not made or the defense overpursued..etc.

I agree with you on this premise but alot of those issues were the cuprit of two people who are not here this year and will be replaced by someone who is probably better (I want to say that it is actually not fair to say that the person who will replace Snyder is better, because Snyder at 100% was probably as good as anyone, but last year's Snyder was never at 100%. It goes back to being a little bit lucky and not having injuries).

 

[Rutgers25]

All about perspective. If OSU had our defense they would say every position group is very weak.

 

[Yeah Baby]

This D may have more NFL talent than the 2006 D. But that D had no injuries and played like one unit. They were fun to watch.

 

[RU#1fan]

Originally posted by WhiteBus:
While I agree with the general premises of good first string talent you guys are crazy to even think defense can compare to the 2006 team. You either didn't watch the 2006 team or didn't watch last year's team.
They aren't close.
Let's all be happy with sustainable improvement which we can all expect to see but stop with the silly comparisons.

This.
The 2006 Defense that had the caliber of Devraun Thompson, S Courtney Greene, S Ron Girault, McCourty twins, George Johnson, Eric Foster, LB Quintero Frierson,etc has not been seen On The Banks since. Hopefully we will see this Talent level again some day on Defense.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

seels:

You are 2/3 right...we have special players in the front 7

When you look at the 2006 defense....it worked because of THREE big things

1.) We had defensive linemen who just created match up problems all over the place. Could not double team both Eric or Meek. Pick your poison. And Giacobee was very very underrated.

2.) We has corners that quickly improved that you could trust and put on an island on man one coverage....

3.) We had a Saftey in Greene that could play like a Outside linebacker...and we had a Sam in Brandon R who could cover like a safey...that allowed us to play base and always bring it...and have no fear matching up on 3 WR sets and still playing man one.


For 2015...
1.) I think we have the dline that can make it happen...

3.) The jury is out on the speed to make this happen. Hister could bring it from the SS spot...but Longa really looked uncertain and uncomfortable in space last year. But I think but this is the least important of the three points

2.,) The big question remains can the corners cover an on an island and allow us to play moving forward and not read and react. This is the big question...and it can happen over an offseson. Question is will it.

Tell me the corners will be good enough to play confidentlally to play on an island...then the defense has a chance to be very very good.

Until then....its going to be improved, but solid at best...

 

[seels2662]

Originally posted by Scarlet Shack:

seels:

You are 2/3 right...we have special players in the front 7

When you look at the 2006 defense....it worked because of THREE big things

1.) We had defensive linemen who just created match up problems all over the place. Could not double team both Eric or Meek. Pick your poison. And Giacobee was very very underrated.

2.) We has corners that quickly improved that you could trust and put on an island on man one coverage....

3.) We had a Saftey in Greene that could play like a Outside linebacker...and we had a Sam in Brandon R who could cover like a safey...that allowed us to play base and always bring it...and have no fear matching up on 3 WR sets and still playing man one.


For 2015...
1.) I think we have the dline that can make it happen...

3.) The jury is out on the speed to make this happen. Hister could bring it from the SS spot...but Longa really looked uncertain and uncomfortable in space last year. But I think but this is the least important of the three points

2.,) The big question remains can the corners cover an on an island and allow us to play moving forward and not read and react. This is the big question...and it can happen over an offseson. Question is will it.

Tell me the corners will be good enough to play confidentlally to play on an island...then the defense has a chance to be very very good.

Until then....its going to be improved, but solid at best...

I agree with this. The only difference is I have alot of confidence in the CBs stepping up. I saw the same flashes of greatness in Barnwell and Boggs that I saw in most of the great CBs we have had in the past. The issue last year was they were constantly banged up and as a result the flashes were few and far between. Another example of us being a little lucky and not getting a ton of injuries. It does help that we add Austin who alot of people really have high hopes for.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

seels

Also...we must must must (did I say must)...stay healthy

RIght know...we look to have 16-18 guys that are solid in the defensive rotation for sub packages...that look to piece together a solid to good defense. (I always figure you need 18-19 guys in total)...so we are close

However, Im not sure where the next 5-8 guys come from if we get injuries

part of the 2006 defense success was the clock rules that year that really knocked down the number of plays per game...and they weren't that run down or tired and I think that helped a thin defense stay healthy

We need a defense ready to play 70 plays a game...and not in the high 50s like 2006.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Originally posted by seels2662:
Last year's defense wasn't that bad . . .

Last year's defense gave up more yards than any defense in Rutgers history. The next worst was the year before. I'm happy to be be shown an optimistic side to this, but where exactly is the established greatness with the defense?

 

[seels2662]

Yes I agree Shack staying healthy is very very important.

By the way I hate that when I say this defense can be great great we always go to 2006. The only comparison is the level of recognition that the 2006 team had that I think the 2015 team could have. Other than that its really not fair because the pieces are different. We won't have a 1st round CB on this team (at least I don't think so) and the 2006 team didn't have a 1st round DE on that team that this team could have.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Originally posted by RU#1fan:

Originally posted by WhiteBus:
While I agree with the general premises of good first string talent you guys are crazy to even think defense can compare to the 2006 team. You either didn't watch the 2006 team or didn't watch last year's team.
They aren't close.
Let's all be happy with sustainable improvement which we can all expect to see but stop with the silly comparisons.

This.
The 2006 Defense that had the caliber of Devraun Thompson, S Courtney Greene, S Ron Girault, McCourty twins, George Johnson, Eric Foster, LB Quintero Frierson,etc has not been seen On The Banks since. Hopefully we will see this Talent level again some day on Defense.

Johnson and the McCourty's were young backups that season. That kind of squashes the theory that we had no depth (sorry Der). Truth is we were thin at DT (played 3 all year basically) but deep and talented everywhere else. The younger guys on the bench were as talented or more talented than the veterans who thrived in 2006. Only Greene and Foster played in the NFL. Renkhart stuck with the Jets for a couple of years as well. If you hate Schiano you don't want to talk about this Defense. They were an extremely well coached and well oiled unit. They were also a bunch of 2 and 3 star kids. Beckford was a 4 star but did not play much until that year (his last). He did a great job too.

The best Defense we have was just a few years ago for anyone who truly watched our games and follows these kids on to the next level. Most of them did go on to the NFL and they were lights out all season long. We were too conservative on Offense that year but when you have a D that good it is tempting. Having Fridge with that D could have been another 2006 type of season.

If we can get anywhere near the level of those 2 defenses I will be happy. It's not silly to hope for that. We should hope for that every season.

 

[MoobyCow]

Originally posted by willisneverrana43:

Originally posted by seels2662:
Last year's defense wasn't that bad . . .

Last year's defense gave up more yards than any defense in Rutgers history. The next worst was the year before. I'm happy to be be shown an optimistic side to this, but where exactly is the established greatness with the defense?

Look, last year's D was simply outmatched in some games, but I hate the 'any time in history' arguments. The game is very different than any time in history. There are more yards given up, more points, more plays in a game pretty much across the board. The D last year was bad, but I have a hard time thinking it was historically bad by RU standards.

 

[rurahrah000]

Originally posted by seels2662:
Right now the only weakness this defense has right now is that we are real thin at many positions. If we get a little lucky and this defense stays injury free, people will talk about this defense all over the country. There are special players at every level.

There are many teams around the country who could claim to be great if they were lucky to be injury free.

 

[kapyoche]

Last year's defense was not that good, but it was able to come up with big plays when they had to.

The defense came up big at the right time against Washington State, Navy, Michigan, and Maryland.

Our success in 2015 rests on RBs, Defense and Federico. Federico better be greater than 50% from 45 - 55.

 

[RUChoppin]

Going by "yards allowed per game", I can only find stats back to 2000 - here are the worst ten years.

2014 - 442.8
2004 - 428.7
2000 - 423.4
2001 - 420.0
2013 - 412.8
2002 - 405.0
2003 - 379.5
2010 - 374.2
2005 - 372.3
2007 - 327.5

However, going by "points scored per game", the late 90s were worse - which makes me think yards allowed were worse, too (especially in 1997). Going back to 1990, last year was the 10th most points allowed per game.

1997 - 45.1
1999 - 38.8
1995 - 37.5
2000 - 36.3
2001 - 36.1
1996 - 34.5
1998 - 34.2
2002 - 33.1
2004 - 31.2
1993 - 30.4
2014 - 30.2
2013 - 29.8
2003 - 29.5

Edit to add: 1997 was historically bad. According to the jhowell site (not 100% accurate, I know, and missing several years), the only other year that we allowed 40+ per game was 1888 where we allowed 40.9. The only other year I could find that we allowed more than 30 per game other than those listed was 1883 with 36.4.


This post was edited on 4/20 4:59 PM by RUChoppin

 

[RUfan96]

I believe this years defense knows the pressure they face and are going to face it head on. I don't believe that our D is on the level of 2006 but I do believe that we should have a top 30-40 defense next year. Not sure what the general thought is around here but I believe as a team, we may take a small step backward next year (losing 8 starters on Offense plus the fridge is a huge task that won't be solved overnight). It's going to be a very telling game September 19th as to what we can expect this year

 

[willisneverrana43]

For those who don't like the fact that last year's defense gave up more yards than any in Rutgers history, you can spend time with the fact that it gave up more yards than 97 other defenses in the country last year.

I'm dumbfounded that comparisons are being made in this thread to the 2006 defense.

 

[imbazza]

THIS SITE STILL SUCKS YOU CAN NOT POST A GRAPH OR CHART
GREAT UP GRADE NOT