Was there ever a chance of RU going to the ACC?
- Thread starter DANTHEMAN
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In theory, that would be a good idea for the ACC. But they also knew that if they extended a formal invitation to Rutgers, the B10 would have responded with its own invitation to Rutgers within a day. And there was no way that Rutgers would have gone to the ACC with a B10 invitation in hand.
I agree that Pernetti probably didn't have a verbal invite or written one.
But, in my opinion, there were discussions between people representing both ( unofficially) in which the ACC felt Pernetti might use an offer to get the B1G to invite Rutgers and leave the ACC at the alter.
Rutgers first opriorty was going B1G and the ACC knew that, so it wouldn't offer unless it was assured in those third party discussions that Rutgers would accept the offer to join theACC the moment the ACC officially invited them.
Pernetti probably let it be know he wouldn't jump on any offer right away, but would see what developed if it was given.
The ACC knew they would look bad if they opffered Rutgers only to see them join the B1G right after that offer.
So it's understandable that the ACC would be unsure about letting it be know they had RU in their sights, especially since
RU looked like it was going to be a B1G member , until Nebraska took that spot.
So the ACC knew the Big 10 might swoop down and invite RU to join , the moment the ACC officially invited Rutgers and
they knew Rutgers would accept that offer instead of theirs.
You neglect parts of that Boston com article (when it suits you) like
:
"It also demonstrated the growing influence of Boston College, if not as an
athletic power, then as a strong character in a passion play of intrigue,
negotiations, and power moves - one of which was to successfully block
Connecticut's potential membership in the ACC."
>The first target was Syracuse, which had been on the original ACC
expansion list eight years ago. The Orangemen, like BC, were disappointed when
they didn't make the final cut, passed over for Virginia Tech and Miami.
The second target was Connecticut, which was part of the Northeast footprint
the ACC wanted, and was coming off the daily double of a BCS bid in football and
a championship in men's basketball (the third for Jim Calhoun).
In addition, the women's basketball program under Geno Auriemma had
established itself as the most dominant in the sport over the past 15
years..
You're right that TV money was the driving factor and ESPN advised the ACC
to raid the BE :""We always keep our television partners close to us,'' he
said. "You don't get extra money for basketball. It's 85 percent football money.
TV - ESPN - is the one who told us what to do. This was football; it had nothing
to do with basketball.''
But wrong to imply going for the ESPN gold and BC blocking UConn at the same
time didn't happen, DeFilippo was clear in his statements that both were the
case and weren't incompatible
Anyone writing that RU officials knew, expected or held an invite from either the ACC or the Big Ten as late as September 2012 is flat out writing fiction.
ACC never invited or promised to invite RU despite several veiled attempts by RU officials (mostly from Mulcahey) to engage them...and when Pernetti heard the news that Cuse and Pitt had agreed to bolt to the ACC he was not only surprised but also enraged at these two former league members for he felt betrayed, he also became highly concerned about the future of RU athletics. But ACC officials never remotely discussed with Pernetti a possible invite to RU during Pernetti's tenure.
Pernetti was so despised by ESPN executives that ACC folks knew it would have been a waste of time to even consider RU...ACC folks also believed that Cuse was enough in order to reach the NYC market (they were patently wrong) and that RU neither had the wherewithal or resources to do any better in football or b-ball-and most importantly, ACC folks never expected for the Big Ten to make a move on RU. ACC folks truly thought that like UConn, RU would be available later when expansions to 16 teams was an inevitable action so there was no need to take them then....
Anyone asserting that RU knew or expected an impending invite to either the ACC or the Big Ten when rumors started circulating that Cuse and Pitt were bolting the Big East simply has no clue. Pernetti held a meeting with McCormick when the Cuse/Pitt to the ACC was announced and the prospects were ten hgrim and next to nothing. Whether removing Pernetti to improve an invite from the ACC was ever discussed by RU officials is not known to me. As late the first week of October 2012, RU had no idea where it future lied other than the bottom feeder CUSA Big East aberration of a conference.
In fact, it was not until four to six weeks prior to the official RU-Big Ten announcement that RU received a direct communication from Big Ten officials that Big Ten Officials were interested in discussing RU's membership in the Big Ten. Up to that point, RU had made several pitches to Big Ten folks, even Delaney, but it had fallen in deaf ears. To further prove this point, even when the Big Ten finally made some overt moves to seriously consider RU, no more than four to six weeks prior to announcement, such discussions were predicated on the fact that there were other contenders and that a decision was far from made. RU folks finally realized (were not necessarily told) that RU was in fact about to be invited about two to three weeks before rumors started circulating and a final decision was conveyed as late as last week of October 2012....
So you understand, there was a strategic rationale for the Big Ten to keep his interests in expanding rather secret...and possibly there is a good possibility that the choices for such expansion were unclear even to the Big Ten officials weeks prior to deciding on RU...
ACC never invited or promised to invite RU despite several veiled attempts by RU officials (mostly from Mulcahey) to engage them...and when Pernetti heard the news that Cuse and Pitt had agreed to bolt to the ACC he was not only surprised but also enraged at these two former league members for he felt betrayed, he also became highly concerned about the future of RU athletics. But ACC officials never remotely discussed with Pernetti a possible invite to RU during Pernetti's tenure.
Pernetti was so despised by ESPN executives that ACC folks knew it would have been a waste of time to even consider RU...ACC folks also believed that Cuse was enough in order to reach the NYC market (they were patently wrong) and that RU neither had the wherewithal or resources to do any better in football or b-ball-and most importantly, ACC folks never expected for the Big Ten to make a move on RU. ACC folks truly thought that like UConn, RU would be available later when expansions to 16 teams was an inevitable action so there was no need to take them then....
Anyone asserting that RU knew or expected an impending invite to either the ACC or the Big Ten when rumors started circulating that Cuse and Pitt were bolting the Big East simply has no clue. Pernetti held a meeting with McCormick when the Cuse/Pitt to the ACC was announced and the prospects were ten hgrim and next to nothing. Whether removing Pernetti to improve an invite from the ACC was ever discussed by RU officials is not known to me. As late the first week of October 2012, RU had no idea where it future lied other than the bottom feeder CUSA Big East aberration of a conference.
In fact, it was not until four to six weeks prior to the official RU-Big Ten announcement that RU received a direct communication from Big Ten officials that Big Ten Officials were interested in discussing RU's membership in the Big Ten. Up to that point, RU had made several pitches to Big Ten folks, even Delaney, but it had fallen in deaf ears. To further prove this point, even when the Big Ten finally made some overt moves to seriously consider RU, no more than four to six weeks prior to announcement, such discussions were predicated on the fact that there were other contenders and that a decision was far from made. RU folks finally realized (were not necessarily told) that RU was in fact about to be invited about two to three weeks before rumors started circulating and a final decision was conveyed as late as last week of October 2012....
So you understand, there was a strategic rationale for the Big Ten to keep his interests in expanding rather secret...and possibly there is a good possibility that the choices for such expansion were unclear even to the Big Ten officials weeks prior to deciding on RU...
Were they patently wrong. In the context of the ACC - what would RU have brought. Basically a deal with one of the local sports nets, similar to what Cuse, UConn, and RU had in the Big East, as well as better ratings for network games. But given that neither RU nor Cuse has been very good in a while, its not like you are getting a ton of RU games on nationally.
Ive heard that part of the reason they invited Pitt when they did was that they feared that the Big 12 was about to snatch up Pitt (I guess in lieu of WVU) to get to 10. I wonder if the same reasoning applied to Cuse.
Der, it is not what RU would have delivered to the ACC (considering that the ACC does not have its own network), but rather what it would have precluded....it would have made much harder for the Big Ten to strengthen its footprint and exposure in the NYC DMA thus possibly (and I stress possibly) denying the Big Ten to sign the COMCAST and other distribution deals it got in the NYC area-at a minimum at the same value....
Yes RU may have had less tangible value to the ACC in terms of immediate revenue (again because the ACC does not have a subscription network), but it was hugely valuable in precluding others (such as the Big Ten) in establishing a pervasive and strong presence in this huge market. Lack of strategic foresight by the ACC I think...sometimes it is not what you gain, but what you preclude others from gaining....
Yes RU may have had less tangible value to the ACC in terms of immediate revenue (again because the ACC does not have a subscription network), but it was hugely valuable in precluding others (such as the Big Ten) in establishing a pervasive and strong presence in this huge market. Lack of strategic foresight by the ACC I think...sometimes it is not what you gain, but what you preclude others from gaining....
I didn't read this whole thread but I'm with RuRoman. I don't have the inside knowledge but I think there's some misremembering going on here with regards to how panicked people a large majority on this board were after Syracuse/Pitt and then ND. With every defection from Cuse/Pitt to ND to WVU the panic level increased many fold. Tons of facetious comments about "markets mattering/TP said we'll be ok" and how we're doomed. After the fact, people may be thinking it was inevitable and a foregone conclusion but that certainly wasn't the case back then. I even remember John O mentioning in a thread that he hadn't heard anything including with regards to the ACC and that prospects weren't looking great. There were very few posts thinking that we'll be okay.
At the time, when those type of threads came up I'd always say, without any inside info, that I think we'll be out of the BE with the B10 the most likely destination. I gave the examples of the NFL, an extremely successful organization without LA, still trying to get a team in LA after all these years as an example of how much markets matter. The logistics of that move though were/are more difficult than us being readily available to add to any conference. I also mentioned how Larry Scott had to get approval from USC/UCLA to get full equal revenue sharing going in the PAC12 as they were the 2 teams in the PAC12's largest market. They gave him a threshold to meet in the contract negotiations and he blew that threshold away and the PAC12 had equal revenue sharing. The point being that despite those facetious comments by some, markets did and do matter and I couldn't envision a college landscape with the big school in the largest market in the country being left out of the P5. Just logically I thought it would happen, specifically before the tv contract negotiation, but as to the exact timing that I didn't know.
Did we have an ACC invite in the pocket? I tend to think not and if the ACC had come first I think we might be there instead. But I would give credence to the theory that we may have approached the B10 for quick counteroffer to swoop in but that's about as far as I'd go.
This post was edited on 3/11 11:07 AM by rutgersguy1
At the time, when those type of threads came up I'd always say, without any inside info, that I think we'll be out of the BE with the B10 the most likely destination. I gave the examples of the NFL, an extremely successful organization without LA, still trying to get a team in LA after all these years as an example of how much markets matter. The logistics of that move though were/are more difficult than us being readily available to add to any conference. I also mentioned how Larry Scott had to get approval from USC/UCLA to get full equal revenue sharing going in the PAC12 as they were the 2 teams in the PAC12's largest market. They gave him a threshold to meet in the contract negotiations and he blew that threshold away and the PAC12 had equal revenue sharing. The point being that despite those facetious comments by some, markets did and do matter and I couldn't envision a college landscape with the big school in the largest market in the country being left out of the P5. Just logically I thought it would happen, specifically before the tv contract negotiation, but as to the exact timing that I didn't know.
Did we have an ACC invite in the pocket? I tend to think not and if the ACC had come first I think we might be there instead. But I would give credence to the theory that we may have approached the B10 for quick counteroffer to swoop in but that's about as far as I'd go.
This post was edited on 3/11 11:07 AM by rutgersguy1
Rutgersguy, good post, and let me assure you that had RU received even a faint sense of an invite at anytime during 2012 prior to the Big Ten invite, RU would have happily, willingly and without hesitation accepted it.....RU had no basis to even speculate that a Big Ten invite was forthcoming....and when Big Ten officials finally started their approach, it took everyone at RU by surprise.
Only if you believe that RU wouldn't have jumped immediately to the Big Ten when invited, or that RU jumping to the ACC would have stopped the Big Ten from asking RU anyway. I dont. RU would have jumped, at least until la GOR was signed and no GOR was being discussed at the time.
So no - I dont think its a huge swing and miss by them. They likely rightly concluded that if you take RU at best you are renting them until the Big Ten expands (which seemed fairly certain to occur at some point in the relatively near future), and at worst, you cause the Big Ten to move and set off another round of raids, with the ACC not the Big East at the center.
I mean its not hard to imagine from the ACCs standpoint the scenario where you invite say RU and Pitt. The Big Ten panics, invites RU, MD, UNC, and UVa with the SEC then getting in on the action and taking VT and NC State or FSU or Clemson or whoever, and the Big 12 deciding to take advantage of the instability to real in what is left (including Pitt) to get to 14 or 16 - all so you can get the marginal benefit of occasionally getting better numbers in NYC?
The Big Ten Presidents and Commissioner understand this. You lock up New Jersey you lock up NYC and Philly. BTN and Joint Research grants basically made it so that adding Rutgers would make all of the B1G even MORE rich. Big Ten's main points was MORE MONEY, new HUGE TV Markets, easier access to recruits. Add to that both Rutgers and Maryland are powerhouses in research and that research money makes the BTN and TV contract money look like spare change, it was a slam dunk! Research money is billions a year, btw. So remember that when sports guys dismiss the CIC and joint research projects between B1G schools.
Meanwhile, the ACC was just worried about Men's Basketball.
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