Who we should be recruiting?

[RickB113]

I keep reading threads stating that we should be able to recruit players like Monmouth that can shoot and play defense, but are maybe not as athletic. Those types of players can win games. That is not how it works. The goal is not to go 11-1 out of conference against mid majors. I understand that we are losing to those teams now, but Eddie can't recruit the same way as those teams because they don't play in the Big Ten. Eddie has two options. Recruit stud 4 and five stars. Not happening. Or recruit guys that are a little bit of projects but may turn out to be big ten players as junior and senior which is what he has done with guys like Diallo, Doorson, Foreman, Laurent. Monmouth would get killed in a full year of the big ten. He can't recruit like those teams. I think the guys mentioned above can be big ten players as upper classman. Problem is will they get there? And the even bigger problem is the lack of guys for this class. I would be way more pumped about this program if we had 3 committed solid 3 star players with other P5 offers.

 

[MadRU]

One of the issues we have had is these types of recruits get a lot of playing time here early (freshman), then they leave after a couple seasons. We need these type of kids to develop and stay 4 years so that when they are seniors we have a solid base of leadership.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

One of the issues we have had is these types of recruits get a lot of playing time here early (freshman), then they leave after a couple seasons. We need these type of kids to develop and stay 4 years so that when they are seniors we have a solid base of leadership.

That has not been our problem.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

That has not been our problem.

Sure it has. When's the last time we had four players who played significant minutes in their freshmen years and then played together in their senior season?

Our biggest problem (besides not attracting top-flight talent) has been our failure to keep our roster intact.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Your can have your program with some of our past players playing 4 years.

I'll take scrappy underclassmen that can be motivated and will work their tails off every possession. They will be in great shape and have the legs late in games to knock down shots. They'll dive on the floor and take charges. They come to the program knowing what is expected of them in order to get PT. When they become seniors they will be even better and will be great role models.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Your can have your program with some of our past players playing 4 years.

I'll take scrappy underclassmen that can be motivated and will work their tails off every possession. They will be in great shape and have the legs late in games to knock down shots. They'll dive on the floor and take charges. They come to the program knowing what is expected of them in order to get PT. When they become seniors they will be even better and will be great role models.

Keeping them on the banks until they become seniors is the problem.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Keeping them on the banks until they become seniors is the problem.

They will stay...I'll even make them pay for their education.

 

[RUJMM78]

They will stay...I'll even make them pay for their education.

This sounds like Trump saying he will make Mexico pay for the wall.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Greene

We see eye to eye a lot...but this has been a huge problem for 20 years

I used to say it every February...and I lost count. I think we have only had 20 players in the past 20 years play four years at RU hoops. One per year isn't enough.

We have had program problem after program problem for so long I can't even count all of the reasons.

but getting the program foundation right is on the top of the list. We aren't going to win unless we get players and develop and keep them....

But having the program right so players make it four years is a big part of the equation. You win with upperclassman.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We all know why players aren't staying 4 years....
Jordan 3
Rice 3
Hill 4
Waters 5

Mulcahy firing Waters, IN HINDSIGHT, started the carousel.

What do you do now? Throw Jordan off the carousel which is still moving. I am 98% convinced Eddie is not the guy, but that isn't enough yet.

We desperately need Eddie to be the right guy and seemlessly transition the program to a younger guy when B1G $ comes in. The intensity and urgency of the program seems the same in Year 3 as it was in kids gloves Jordan year 1. Is Eddie coming in to work everyday at 7AM and leaving at 10 PM at night 6 days a week? Is there a vision and a plan on how to build the program. Is there a recruiting strategy and infrastructure? Is Eddie willing to lead and delegate tasks to others and make the coaching staff a team working together to get things done.

I just don't see it, but i want to. We all want to see the nice guy who treats his players with the respect they deserve succeed.

 

[Section114]

We all know why players aren't staying 4 years....
Jordan 3
Rice 3
Hill 4
Waters 5

Mulcahy firing Waters, IN HINDSIGHT, started the carousel.

What do you do now? Throw Jordan off the carousel which is still moving. I am 98% convinced Eddie is not the guy, but that isn't enough yet.

We desperately need Eddie to be the right guy and seemlessly transition the program to a younger guy when B1G $ comes in. The intensity and urgency of the program seems the same in Year 3 as it was in kids gloves Jordan year 1. Is Eddie coming in to work everyday at 7AM and leaving at 10 PM at night 6 days a week? Is there a vision and a plan on how to build the program. Is there a recruiting strategy and infrastructure? Is Eddie willing to lead and delegate tasks to others and make the coaching staff a team working together to get things done.

I just don't see it, but i want to. We all want to see the nice guy who treats his players with the respect they deserve succeed.

Honestly, It feels like Eddie comes in for practice and heads home. While at practice he works on 1 on 4 fast break drills with Bishop and Foreman. if they make 2 in a row they all head home!

 

[willisneverrana43]

Our biggest problem (besides not attracting top-flight talent) . . .

This is like saying, "our biggest problem, besides this thing that dwarfs everything else . . . ."

Also, for what it's worth, the problem hasn't been firing too many coaches too quickly. It's been hiring the wrong ones.

 

[patk89]

Bottom line is that we are losing because we lack talent and we have sub-par coaching. Has been that way for decades. When a guy comes in and exceeds expectations early, he creates transfer options for himself and many have taken that option. The losing is the driving factor in their leaving. It is a vicious cycle that needs to be broken by the right coach with the right facilities.

 

[bac2therac]

This is like saying, "our biggest problem, besides this thing that dwarfs everything else . . . ."

Also, for what it's worth, the problem hasn't been firing too many coaches too quickly. It's been hiring the wrong ones.

BINGO...you could have given just about all of our coaches 10 years and they wouldn't have won. Not to mention that 2 of the last 6 were done in by scandal. Wenzel clearly was interested in putting in the hard work anymore. Waters arguably could have won but was inconsistent. Hill clearly wasn't head coach material. Jordan does not seem like he is a seller of a college program. So there you have it.

Sure it sucks to stay on the coach carasoal but that's what happens when you hire the wrong coach. Jordan will end up getting a pass because of the injuries this year but everybody in the building knows the team was going to be a 10 win team tops next year and he isn't the right guy. So the issue of extension will be coming up after year 3 so what is Hobbs going to do....will Eddie being extended two more years ala Freddie thus putting us on the hook just like we were with most of the last 6 coaches

 

[ruman]

BINGO...you could have given just about all of our coaches 10 years and they wouldn't have won. Not to mention that 2 of the last 6 were done in by scandal. Wenzel clearly was interested in putting in the hard work anymore. Waters arguably could have won but was inconsistent. Hill clearly wasn't head coach material. Jordan does not seem like he is a seller of a college program. So there you have it.

Sure it sucks to stay on the coach carasoal but that's what happens when you hire the wrong coach. Jordan will end up getting a pass because of the injuries this year but everybody in the building knows the team was going to be a 10 win team tops next year and he isn't the right guy. So the issue of extension will be coming up after year 3 so what is Hobbs going to do....will Eddie being extended two more years ala Freddie thus putting us on the hook just like we were with most of the last 6 coaches

With and AD that knows basketball and cares, Eddie Jordan will get fired before he gets an extension

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

So the issue of extension will be coming up after year 3 so what is Hobbs going to do....will Eddie being extended two more years ala Freddie thus putting us on the hook just like we were with most of the last 6 coaches

REALLY difficult decision. Not sure what would be more depressing a 2 year extension OR Jordan running out the string without an extension.

Gulp!!!!! We may be best giving him an extension knowing that 2 years out when we are in the same boat the B1G $ is closer and we have the ammunition and potentially the political capital to make a better hire. Not giving him an extension probably equates to telling everyone the men's Basketball program is wasting 2 years of life.

 

[ruman]

REALLY difficult decision. Not sure what would be more depressing a 2 year extension OR Jordan running out the string without an extension.

Gulp!!!!! We may be best giving him an extension knowing that 2 years out when we are in the same boat the B1G $ is closer and we have the ammunition and potentially the political capital to make a better hire. Not giving him an extension probably equates to telling everyone the men's Basketball program is wasting 2 years of life.

not giving him an extension throws next year away - because you will fire him if its a disaster and eat one year

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Honestly, It feels like Eddie comes in for practice and heads home. While at practice he works on 1 on 4 fast break drills with Bishop and Foreman. if they make 2 in a row they all head home!

I think we'll get an inside peek into practices by watching this......The Rutgers Basketball Story Debuts Friday - http://www.scarletknights.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/010516aaa.html

The 30-minute show is designed to provide insight into the men’s and women’s programs as the Scarlet Knights play their second seasons in the Big Ten Conference under head coaches Eddie Jordan and C. Vivian Stringer.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

REALLY difficult decision. Not sure what would be more depressing a 2 year extension OR Jordan running out the string without an extension.

Gulp!!!!! We may be best giving him an extension knowing that 2 years out when we are in the same boat the B1G $ is closer and we have the ammunition and potentially the political capital to make a better hire. Not giving him an extension probably equates to telling everyone the men's Basketball program is wasting 2 years of life.

Difficult decision and add in the fact that Jordan will be 65 after his 5 year contract. The transition needs to start before that time....coaches in waiting rarely work, but, I'm curious if that would be an option. I can't think of a situation where it ever worked.....maybe an up and coming big name assistant at a big program with east coast ties would do it. Hobbs would need to show tangible evidence that Rutgers is serious about basketball with major facilities investments and competitive salaries to attract top notch assistants.

 

[ruman]

Difficult decision and add in the fact that Jordan will be 65 after his 5 year contract. The transition needs to start at that time....coaches in waiting rarely work, but, I'm curious if that would be an option. I can't think of a situation where it ever worked.....maybe an up and coming big name assistant at a big program with east coast ties would do it. Hobbs would need to show tangible evidence that Rutgers is serious about basketball with major facilities investments and competitive salaries to attract top notch assistants.

This is not to argue, but you do not get a coach in waiting scenario at a dumpster fire program. You do that at Syracuse or successful place. The type of assistant you describe will want the job and not wait two years for Eddie to leave. Book Richardson will not work for Eddie Jordan

 

[Caliknight]

Just get the right coach and build from there. This isn't rocket science. Eddie isn't the right coach. Until we have that person, Rutgers won't win.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

This is not to argue, but you do not get a coach in waiting scenario at a dumpster fire program. You do that at Syracuse or successful place. The type of assistant you describe will want the job and not wait two years for Eddie to leave. Book Richardson will not work for Eddie Jordan

like I said, I don't know if this ever works. Maybe it will work at Syracuse......maybe it's a creative option.

Maybe a $1.5 million agreement for 5 years when he's hired as HC gets his attention and he could be hired as an assistant during the start of year 5 recruiting....the players he recruits would play for him.

 

[ruman]

like I said, I don't know if this ever works. Maybe it will work at Syracuse......maybe it's a creative option.

Maybe a $1.5 million agreement for 5 years when he's hired as HC gets his attention and he could be hired as an assistant during the start of year 5 recruiting....the players he recruits would play for him.

Give whomever this person you are describing the job in March - why wait two years? It does nothing but delay the rebuild.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

....coaches in waiting rarely work, but, I'm curious if that would be an option..

I actually thought about this....after the season sit Jordan down and tell him he stays with an extension, but we are picking his assistant coach. the more i thought...A. it was a disaster with FHJ B. I couldn't see Jordan yielding some responsibilities to a guy who ultimately would replace him.

If Jordan was open to this concept it might be Plan A or Plan B. I know it doesn't sound optimal, but given our financial position it could be.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Just get the right coach and build from there. This isn't rocket science. Eddie isn't the right coach. Until we have that person, Rutgers won't win.

The issue is the clock. Our ability of finding the right coach improves as we get closer to the B1G $ coming in. This is almost a timing thing where it might be in the best interest to (GULP!) stay with Jordan.

 

[ruman]

I actually thought about this....after the season sit Jordan down and tell him he stays with an extension, but we are picking his assistant coach. the more i thought...A. it was a disaster with FHJ B. I couldn't see Jordan yielding some responsibilities to a guy who ultimately would replace him.

If Jordan was open to this concept it might be Plan A or Plan B. I know it doesn't sound optimal, but given our financial position it could be.

That is a desperate measure to cling on to a coach that's not capable. He's in his 60's - we have to pick his assistants?

You cut bait - and if Hobbs is the kind of AD that I think he is, money will not be an issue.

We will owe EJ roughly $2.7 million for his last two years. A good AD will need to find that, or negotiate a buy out

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

That is a desperate measure to cling on to a coach that's not capable. He's in his 60's - we have to pick his assistants?

You cut bait - and if Hobbs is the kind of AD that I think he is, money will not be an issue.

We will owe EJ roughly $2.7 million for his last two years. A good AD will need to find that, or negotiate a buy out

You are seriously overestimating what an AD has the ability to do in such a short period of time. Are you for cutting bait and going real cheap on Head Coach and even cheaper on assistants?

And yes we are desperate

 

[Caliknight]

The issue is the clock. Our ability of finding the right coach improves as we get closer to the B1G $ coming in. This is almost a timing thing where it might be in the best interest to (GULP!) stay with Jordan.

Finding the right coach would entail laying out a plan for what has to happen to be successful once the B1G money starts rolling in. I see no need to continue losing until that happens. Have a plan and bring in a young, dynamic guy who can coach to actually implement it.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Finding the right coach would entail laying out a plan for what has to happen to be successful once the B1G money starts rolling in. I see no need to continue losing until that happens. Have a plan and bring in a young, dynamic guy who can coach to actually implement it.

In theory yes...in reality we are going to get the bottom of potential new head coaches. There will be 10-20 D1 job openings and we will be right around the 2/3 mark down on that list. we don't pay, we have no facilities, job has been a grave for caoches, we give 3-4 years to turn around.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I actually thought about this....after the season sit Jordan down and tell him he stays with an extension, but we are picking his assistant coach. the more i thought...A. it was a disaster with FHJ B. I couldn't see Jordan yielding some responsibilities to a guy who ultimately would replace him.

If Jordan was open to this concept it might be Plan A or Plan B. I know it doesn't sound optimal, but given our financial position it could be.

FIG, I think it would have to be the spring going into year 5. I think it would be impossible to get someone to wait for 2 years. In fact, if this plan were adopted, that coach would have to see tangible evidence of proof of investment in facilities, ie construction already started on a state of the art practice facility. That won't happen in 3 months.

Regarding FHJ.....was it clear to everyone, including Waters, that he was a Head Coach-In-Waiting ??

 

[ruman]

You are seriously overestimating what an AD has the ability to do in such a short period of time. Are you for cutting bait and going real cheap on Head Coach and even cheaper on assistants?

And yes we are desperate

I would think Jim Engles of NJIT would do a much better job as head coach here than Eddie Jordan - so if that's going cheap, I would be for that instead of the status quo

 

[TheB1GTerp]

I keep reading threads stating that we should be able to recruit players like Monmouth that can shoot and play defense, but are maybe not as athletic. Those types of players can win games. That is not how it works. The goal is not to go 11-1 out of conference against mid majors. I understand that we are losing to those teams now, but Eddie can't recruit the same way as those teams because they don't play in the Big Ten. Eddie has two options. Recruit stud 4 and five stars. Not happening. Or recruit guys that are a little bit of projects but may turn out to be big ten players as junior and senior which is what he has done with guys like Diallo, Doorson, Foreman, Laurent. Monmouth would get killed in a full year of the big ten. He can't recruit like those teams. I think the guys mentioned above can be big ten players as upper classman. Problem is will they get there? And the even bigger problem is the lack of guys for this class. I would be way more pumped about this program if we had 3 committed solid 3 star players with other P5 offers.

Your staff has still not contacted Tahj Holden at the Ranney School, he's has several stars there. Would be nice to return a call.

http://shoresportsnetwork.com/boys-basketball-tahj-holden-hired-as-new-head-coach-at-ranney/

By the way Tahj is from New Jersey, and Ranney is in New Jersey. You want to keep kids at home, that would be a start.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I would think Jim Engles of NJIT would do a much better job as head coach here than Eddie Jordan - so if that's going cheap, I would be for that instead of the status quo

I am not disagreeing here, but.......

Jim Engles gets the job here what type of player do you want him to recruit? Do you want him getting the same type of guys he has now with maybe a slightly better talent level? Do you want him getting 3 and 4 star recruits with egos that are in a different pond that he is accustomed to fishing from?

This is the problem getting a mid major coach with no experience in a big time program. They probably are good with Xs and Os, but are they able to recruit and motivate the P5/P7 athlete.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Your staff has still not contacted Tahj Holden at the Ranney School, he's has several stars there. Would be nice to return a call.

http://shoresportsnetwork.com/boys-basketball-tahj-holden-hired-as-new-head-coach-at-ranney/

By the way Tahj is from New Jersey, and Ranney is in New Jersey. You want to keep kids at home, that would be a start.

Same thing at another prominent school in NJ

Your staff has still not contacted Tahj Holden at the Ranney School, he's has several stars there. Would be nice to return a call.

http://shoresportsnetwork.com/boys-basketball-tahj-holden-hired-as-new-head-coach-at-ranney/

By the way Tahj is from New Jersey, and Ranney is in New Jersey. You want to keep kids at home, that would be a start.

Unfortunately this tells you what you need to know. I am not sure if it is ego, laziness, or neglect. I was told the same thing 2 years ago when a player was interested in RU and the coach reached out to Jordan.

 

[willisneverrana43]

The coach-in-waiting idea and the possibility of an extension are both otherworldly absurd. The qualifications one needs to understand this are none. In other words, you don't need to know anything to know that these things will never happen.

Please continue . . .

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The coach-in-waiting idea and the possibility of an extension are both otherworldly absurd. The qualifications one needs to understand this are none. In other words, you don't need to know anything to know that these things will never happen.

Please continue . . .

We have a humongous deficit in the athletic program. We just fired Kyle Flood. We have a president that might outright say no to another buyout.

With this in mind what is your solution?

 

[willisneverrana43]

FIG, all these money issues existed before we fired Flood and Herman, firings that exacerbated the money problems yet happened. RU knows the B1G money is coming and acted accordingly, trying to avoid RU football going from a 3-4 year drop-off to a full-out free fall.

So now we have basketball, which is already in free fall and close to hitting the bottom of the canyon like the coyote. I guess it's possible that money will force the administration to give EJ another year before they cut him loose. But the team's performance is getting so bad, and with recruiting bone dry this year, that their hand may be forced. Either way, they aren't extending him. No way. It's an unmitigated disaster, and Hobbs has to see that. His first BB move will not be to extend Littlepage II. Worst case, he bites the bullet for another year. But he doesn't double down on this mess. I repeat, the notion of an extension that would commit RU to more years and a higher buyout of EJ is absurd. As far as coach-in-waiting, never happen. What coach of any talent would sign up for this: "Hey, come be an assistant for a year or two at a disaster program so that we don't have to pay too much money to the coach we intend to fire. Then, after a couple of years of that, all this can be yours." I'm not sure how many human beings would sign up for that horrible job, but whoever might is not someone you'd want as RU's coach. The coach-in-waiting thing will never happen.

I think RU should let EJ go after this year, eat the money and hire the right guy. And RU should move forward on upgrading facilities at the same time. Those things are going to happen, so they might as well happen now. Next year, even the year after, things won't be much different. We'll still be waiting for full B1G money, just as we are now. But I'm just a fan. So I'm not the right guy to ask exactly how to proceed. If I'm (or anyone here) how RU figures out how to run its BB program, things won't get better.

But I do know this -- because you don't need to know nuthin' 'bout nuthin' to know this. RU won't extend EJ to give him more guaranteed money and RU won't hire some sort of coach-in-waiting.

 

[cyrock3]

Eddie has a plan. He's going after HIS PLAYERS. We can't continue going on the coach carousel. We need to let a coach have a chance to breathe. That hasn't happened at Rutgers for decades.

I agree with Rick, Eddie is getting HIS PLAYERS for the B1G GRIND. He's not worried about mid majors. He's worried about the B1G BOYS.

 

[ruman]

Eddie has a plan. He's going after HIS PLAYERS. We can't continue going on the coach carousel. We need to let a coach have a chance to breathe. That hasn't happened at Rutgers for decades.

I agree with Rick, Eddie is getting HIS PLAYERS for the B1G GRIND. He's not worried about mid majors. He's worried about the B1G BOYS.

Ok

 

[MCKnight2004]

Your staff has still not contacted Tahj Holden at the Ranney School, he's has several stars there. Would be nice to return a call.

http://shoresportsnetwork.com/boys-basketball-tahj-holden-hired-as-new-head-coach-at-ranney/

By the way Tahj is from New Jersey, and Ranney is in New Jersey. You want to keep kids at home, that would be a start.

Terp

I was exclaiming for RU to be at Ranney school everyday possible..yes they are freshman, but the only chance with them will be to start recruiting from day 1 before the big boys swoop in. They have two high level stars right now. Hopefully the coaches awaken to this