Why can't Eddie get it done?

[DocRU]

It makes no sense to me that most are questioning this. Sure I've watched every game the past 2 years. I'm not basing anything on that. Because he's got 2 Mulligans in my book. My perspective is that I've seen every RU coach starting with Bill Foster. And Eddie Jordan has a resume that blows most of them away. RU legend, NBA player, NBA coach who won with the Wizards when he had talent to work with. Who else compares with that?
Ok Tom Young was successful but the guy hated recruiting. He couldn't even capitalize on a Final Four.
Littlepage coached 2 years in the Ivy League, and found his forte as an AD.
Wenzel was an ok college player here, and coached at mid major Jacksonville. A brief stint as a Net assistant. His recruiting was laughable at times. Remember that Brookdale CC guard, Pete Marcotte? Or Darko? Found his forte as a TV analyst.
No need to rehash the implosions of Bannon, Hill, or Rice. Waters was a career assistant before his big break at Kent State. But he was such a poor fit in NJ that he went right back to that level at Cleveland St.
MYTH: But RU is at a whole different level now in the B1G. Not really. In football, for sure. But the old Big East was just as formidable in basketball.
NOT A MYTH: RU is way behind in facilities. That is an undeniable truth. And arguably Eddie's biggest challenge. As well as RU's now decades long culture of losing.
But that doesn't mean we're doomed. We have a coach who has experience at the highest level. A coach who is as implosion proof as we could possibly get. A 4 star PG and a shot blocking center to build around. We play name brand teams every night on national television. Its going to happen. RU is going to start winning soon. Why not? Why can't Eddie get it done?

 

[Local Shill]

RU is a square peg in a round hole w/hoops in the Big Ten.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[ruman]

Because he has not shown he can attract high talent recruits at the level needed to compete in this league. Also, our situation requires a coach who is a force of nature, who works relentlessly to combat all of the negatives that Rutgers has against it to start with. I do not think that EJ at this stage of his career is that guy.

That's why.
Posted from Rivals Mobile


This post was edited on 3/17 10:02 PM by ruman

 

[Pritz9]

I think the jury is still out.Your critiques are simplistic, but we can't write a book here, can we?

If it was just facilities, there'd be a lot of unsuccessful coaches. There are many winners (overachievers?) with terrible facilities throughout college basketball. Remember the Barn? What did Foster, Lloyd, and Young do there? And there's no way even back then you would call it good facilities.

It comes down to talent. Can a coach get the talent here. Facilities will help, but it's limited. The coaching staff has to get the talent here. And he's got to be able to coach. Sure, a lot of things have changed on the college basketball landscape. But it still boils down to the coaching staff getting the talent here.

We really don't know yet whether EJ can do that, though if this upcoming freshman class isn't very good....then we'll know the answer.

 

[bac2therac]

my pessimism centers around recruiting and the trajectory of it.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Doc

Im with you.

I said this 2 years ago and was told non sense...the first 2 years were likely a throw away and year 3 is year one

There are some legit questions about EJ...as a fan base what we must see ion year three

-putting in a good portion of what he wants to run X's and O's (almost ful implementation I. Year 4)
-a team bringing it 100% on the court every play. Playing enough guys not too
Many minutes
-individual player skill development

I think the above puts us at 10-14 win level for
Next year but playing More competitively

It more importantly sets up the trajectory to being .500 in year 4 or 5.

Roster wise...three sophs and five frosh

A legit recruiting goal is ONE legit top 50-75 in every class and some role pieces to go with it

Do that and by year 6 with have a roster with talent and depth and experience and a shot to really xompete on the big ten

This is not a rebuilding job....it is a building job

Just got to see the upward trajectory start next year

This is a must for this fan base that has endured way too much

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Back to original....NBA and NCAA basketball are 2 different sports. Eddie was never qualified to coach in college. This makes the learning curve long and so far very flat.

 

[mikeyvpsu]

The "coached in the NBA" shtick wears off quickly. Not sure it helps us going forward. Need to capitalize on that buzz in years 1 and 2. My worry, solely from observation, is that Eddie knows (or is willing to do) what it takes. Is his heart in it? Yes, absolutely. That was evident after the Wiscy game. But is Eddie out recruiting every chance he gets? Is his phone attached to his ear all night long? This is a job for a guy with ENERGY. Eddie's never gonna be Bruce Pearl running with his shirt off, or wearing a bright red blazer, but he needs to trend in that direction. College basketball teams are without a doubt reflections of their coach. The coach is almost always the face of the program. Funny, but I would love a combination of Eddie and Mike.

 

[bscharf]

Originally posted by bac2therac:

my pessimism centers around recruiting and the trajectory of it.

The incoming class is ranked 42nd nationally by 24/7.

If they don't show that they are moving in the right direction next year then I'll agree with you. I just don't think it's fair to write a guy off before he has had ONE season of a team full of his guys.

Im not saying I wouldn't like to see him get the best of what he was given--but lets be fair here.

 

[TDIrish1]

Agreed------can't give him a fair evaluation until after Year 4 IMO.

Just inherited too big a mess and transitioning to the league they are now in are roadblocks that make anything other than 4 years unfair.

 

[higgins3]

We all hope he does. This year will be important coming up.

I take GRf sentiment- NBA and NCAA are very two different sport.s NBA you have polished athletes, with good shooters and rebounders all over the place. NCAA you have unpolished athletes that need a lot of support, help, and guidance. In the NCAA, you're half basketball coach half life ad visor, in the NBA you're a basketball coach that hardly anyone listens to. All the people on your bench can play the sport at a high level. College is very different than that.

Also, EJ has a past pedigree and for himself that's impressive, but these players want to know what he can do for THEM. I am an EJ backer, but want to see more wins and more competing this upcoming year.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

There is a rule that fans "adopt" that says players must be given an opportunity to succeed and coaches must be given an opportunity to find players that fit the system they want to run in order to succeed.

This is the item that places fans in a dilemma....fans are expecting kids to be molded instantly into any system....coaches are then trying to figure out what kids can do and can't, within the system and then also figure out what kids can achieve within the context of game situations, vs. what very good coaches want to "take away" or the strengths of what kids do best.

Going to really take a couple of kids this spring to really turn the tide for next week, where fans feel somewhat confident that next year will not be 9-23 or 10-22....a 14-18 season next year would not be great, but at least give a glimmer of hope.

 

[seels2662]

Have to tell you, I am very confused with this thread.

There are alot of things we need to see from EJ, but recruiting? He took two fliers on Johnson and Goode because they are shooters with length...the EXACT thing people were asking for in the thread a little below this. So if you want to fault him on that then fine. After that? Three Rivals top 150 guys (Etou, Foreman, Sanders), a ESPN 4 star player we got from Pittsburgh (Doorson), a Rivals three star who indirectly transferred from Miami to here (Daniels), and three other players in which ALL three are solid three stars according to Rivals (Diallo, The other Johnson, Williams). By the way Iowa has ZERO Rivals top 150 guys during the time we had three. Minnesota has two.

 

[Knight_Light]

Originally posted by Greene Rice FIG:
Back to original....NBA and NCAA basketball are 2 different sports. Eddie was never qualified to coach in college. This makes the learning curve long and so far very flat.

No doubt college and the NBA are totally different...in college, one normally needs HS/AAU contacts for recruiting...something Eddie hasn't had to worry about for the last 20 plus years...as recruiting is the life blood of any college program...and RU hired someone that had little to none contacts in the current HS/AAU game.

Not many schools ever hire College Head Coaches who haven't been in/coaching the college game for the past 20 years.


This post was edited on 3/18 11:34 AM by Knight_Light

 

[rutgersal]

.500 by Year 5 is fair, given all the constraints we face.

 

[bac2therac]

Originally posted by seels2662:
Have to tell you, I am very confused with this thread.

There are alot of things we need to see from EJ, but recruiting? He took two fliers on Johnson and Goode because they are shooters with length...the EXACT thing people were asking for in the thread a little below this. So if you want to fault him on that then fine. After that? Three Rivals top 150 guys (Etou, Foreman, Sanders), a ESPN 4 star player we got from Pittsburgh (Doorson), a Rivals three star who indirectly transferred from Miami to here (Daniels), and three other players in which ALL three are solid three stars according to Rivals (Diallo, The other Johnson, Williams). By the way Iowa has ZERO Rivals top 150 guys during the time we had three. Minnesota has two.

the problem is that Eddie struck out with any of his first choices, you normally get the recruiting bounces early in your classes. His recruiting of Sanders a feather in the cap for sure but not sure you can point to Daniels as a plus and Etou is not really turning out to be the guy that people thought he would, he has two years for that but he has a ton of improving to do. The other guys all have yet to play and yet most were not highly recruited....and yes that counts because we are in a league deep with talent, you have set the bar so low for recruiting that just because a kid had an offer from Pitt he becomes a legit talent.

I used recruiting as a fair way to criticize because I believe Eddies coaching has been brutal and people do not want to judge him on that right now so I stayed away from it. The guys coming back look like role player types and that's not a good combo when you have a coach that hasn't shown signs that he can overachieve with his coaching...because that's what going to have to happen here...Jordan will have to overachieve with his talent starting next year. RU is at the bottom of the Big 10 talent wise, that's indisputable right now. So he either has to improve recruiting tenfold or start showing a pulse coaching the hell out of his team
This post was edited on 3/18 11:57 AM by bac2therac

 

[bscharf]

Originally posted by seels2662:
Have to tell you, I am very confused with this thread.

There are alot of things we need to see from EJ, but recruiting? He took two fliers on Johnson and Goode because they are shooters with length...the EXACT thing people were asking for in the thread a little below this. So if you want to fault him on that then fine. After that? Three Rivals top 150 guys (Etou, Foreman, Sanders), a ESPN 4 star player we got from Pittsburgh (Doorson), a Rivals three star who indirectly transferred from Miami to here (Daniels), and three other players in which ALL three are solid three stars according to Rivals (Diallo, The other Johnson, Williams). By the way Iowa has ZERO Rivals top 150 guys during the time we had three. Minnesota has two.

I don't want to go too off topic but also I didn't want to start a thread about this BUT..

Can someone please explain to me how Okoro got to Iowa St?

and had an offer from Arizona!!

I want him to succeed but I haven't seen anything, not even a flash, that he is that caliber player. In fact, He's been a total liability when on the floor. Maybe I'm being too harsh? Am I missing something?

 

[higgins3]

Bsharf, to be honest i think it was everything off the basketball court more than anything else. Death of father and brother and being away from home. No one knows what these kids go through.

Also, highly recruited out of HS ST Rays. Seen as a high ceiling type of kid with his drive and energy. What do you know though- never translated to NCAA because it's that hard. Also, in HS one person can win a game and depending on the coach, they give you all the power. In NCAA, that is never how it is. Wally Judge, Jerome Seagers, etc. Coaches in NCAA want to win, want more team ball. HS coaches want to win, don't always focus on team ball.

Okoro has had a difficult life thus far. Combined that with trying to focus on basketball and this is the result.

 

[ruman]

Originally posted by rutgersal:

.500 by Year 5 is fair, given all the constraints we face.

What a bunch of easy graders - slide that up to year 4

 

[bscharf]

Higgins- Very true. Off the court hardships may have changed his game or focus.

I just don't understand how RU gets these highly touted transfers that continually make you scratch you head. Judge top 15 recruit. Moore top 100 with offer from Pitino. Those two atleast showed flashes. But Okoro having offers from two of the nations top programs is hard to understand based on what i've seen.I would love if he shuts me up.

Very good point though.

 

[higgins3]

Bsharf, our guard Baties brother was shot in Trenton last year. Basketball is the one thing that keeps a lot of these players on track in life.

For me, dunk tapes are overrated. Wally Judge at 6 11 shouldn't have a dunk tape, he should have a post game tape. A player at 6 0, a couple dunks is interesting but still not what I see as the biggest need. Bring in a player that makes the selfless pass, who gets into proper positioning to rebound and then uses his athleticism from there. In general, we just need more fundamentals.

We'll see what happens.

 

[higgins3]

Bac, you can compare players-it's not the craziest thing. Etou is ahead of where KJ was right now. Is there anything wrong with saying that?

Do you expect EJ to go out and get 4-5 stars? It's just not happening. He got Sanders, and once we get a .500 season and above we might get some better players. For now, we get 3 star players with a decent play of game. Hoping for anything else just seems unrealistic. We all want to win, we all want better players, but we are who we are.If EJ can't get it done next year or the year after, maybe a new coach is needed.


Get a new coach, get wins, get better players. It is hard to think one is going to come before the other there.

 

[RUJMM78]

The problem Rutgers has faced since joining the Big East and now the B1G is competing against big time competition with small time coaching staffs and talent that is MAAC level.Its a sure prescription for failure especially the recruiting aspect.

The fact that the mens basketball program has been so bad for so long falls directly with the athletic department and its lack of commitment .The notion that nobody cares is pervasive and is reinforced with no plan of action to correct the status quo.What is left is a dwindling number of fans on a message board rehashing the reasons why .

 

[higgins3]

ru-jmm-Spot on.

 

[Ray6232010]

Recruiting

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Originally posted by TDIrish1:

Agreed------can't give him a fair evaluation until after Year 4 IMO.

Just inherited too big a mess and transitioning to the league they are now in are roadblocks that make anything other than 4 years unfair.

Common sense is not allowed on this board....lol

The reputation for Rutgers basketball was about as low as any place in the college basketball in recent memory...

It's kind of obvious that recruits would not be banging at the doors (35 year old doors) to get in.

...
This post was edited on 3/18 5:45 PM by RU-Choppin-Ohio

 

[seels2662]

Originally posted by bac2therac:

Originally posted by seels2662:
Have to tell you, I am very confused with this thread.

There are alot of things we need to see from EJ, but recruiting? He took two fliers on Johnson and Goode because they are shooters with length...the EXACT thing people were asking for in the thread a little below this. So if you want to fault him on that then fine. After that? Three Rivals top 150 guys (Etou, Foreman, Sanders), a ESPN 4 star player we got from Pittsburgh (Doorson), a Rivals three star who indirectly transferred from Miami to here (Daniels), and three other players in which ALL three are solid three stars according to Rivals (Diallo, The other Johnson, Williams). By the way Iowa has ZERO Rivals top 150 guys during the time we had three. Minnesota has two.

the problem is that Eddie struck out with any of his first choices, you normally get the recruiting bounces early in your classes. His recruiting of Sanders a feather in the cap for sure but not sure you can point to Daniels as a plus and Etou is not really turning out to be the guy that people thought he would, he has two years for that but he has a ton of improving to do. The other guys all have yet to play and yet most were not highly recruited....and yes that counts because we are in a league deep with talent, you have set the bar so low for recruiting that just because a kid had an offer from Pitt he becomes a legit talent.

I used recruiting as a fair way to criticize because I believe Eddies coaching has been brutal and people do not want to judge him on that right now so I stayed away from it. The guys coming back look like role player types and that's not a good combo when you have a coach that hasn't shown signs that he can overachieve with his coaching...because that's what going to have to happen here...Jordan will have to overachieve with his talent starting next year. RU is at the bottom of the Big 10 talent wise, that's indisputable right now. So he either has to improve recruiting tenfold or start showing a pulse coaching the hell out of his team
This post was edited on 3/18 11:57 AM by bac2therac

Before I debate you other points, I 100% agree there are other aspects of his coaching that I am not happy with. The fact people are completely wide open by a mile all the time is not a skill you need to recruit. I would like to see some improvement in that and other aspects this year. Shack has mentioned this and I agree with him-the kid gloves EJ had coming in from the MR scandal can now be taken off.

That being said, you weren't going to get a recruiting bounce after the disaster that was this basketball program after the scandal. I agree Daniels is just a nice role player and Etou needs to step up but people like Foreman and Doorson are doing exacly what is expected. You can't expect big men to come in and play at a high level almost all of them that do are one-and-doners and we are certainly not going to get any of them anytime soon no matter who is coaching. And this year we add shooters, another highly rated big man, and what is supposed to be the best player on this team. People see the 22 losses and scream its the recruitng but this is a 100% fact that noone can dispute-5, and even possibly 6, players on next years team did not play one minute in any of the losses of the 2014-2015 season.