Would/could Hobbs force Ash to make coaching changes?
- Thread starter Abro1975
- Start date
Let's see if Hobbs can man up, admit he made a terrible mistake in hiring Ash and then cut bait and hire a real coach.
He could have gone 0-12 and Hobbs wouldn't be making a change. We're not a money bags school either btw as you know. When have you ever seen a coach let go after 1 or 2 years especially one who was hired by the current athletic director. I can't think of many if there are some and many will get to their 3rd year and in our case I'd be surprised if he doesn't see his 4th year.
I've mentioned this before too add in the fact the struggles of Kevin Willard before his breakthrough last year. Hobbs hired him and didn't let him go during that time so barring off the field stuff why would it be any different here. Ash is going to get his fair chance no matter how bad it looks early on in his tenure.
A discussion about firing Ash is just silly. He is the selection and deserves a full opportunity. Sure Hobbs should review with him year 1 results both on and off the field but I doubt Ash will feel compelled to pull the plug on the OC or DC. I think these guys have more than 1 year deals. could see a change or two but nothing wholesale. It would not serve him well on the recruiting front unless bringing in known names.
I begrudgingly agree with you. He will get 3 years. But he will be gone at the end of the 3rd year. The recruiting class is good but not good enough to change a program like ours and when one considers the B10. If we finish 3-9 next year the pressure will be tremendous, and a 5-7 or 6-6 finish in his third year will be the final nail in the coffin.
To answer OP's question: Could Hobbs force Ash to make coaching changes? Sure he could. Would he? Doesn't appear to be Hobbs' style.
The unasked question: SHOULD HE? My answer: NO. When you hire a head coach you don't interfere in his staffing decisions, other than to require that he stay within budget. Which may be the problem, but that's a whole 'nother issue.
The unasked question: SHOULD HE? My answer: NO. When you hire a head coach you don't interfere in his staffing decisions, other than to require that he stay within budget. Which may be the problem, but that's a whole 'nother issue.
Actually the trajectory you've given would likely result in a 4th year. 2-10, 3-9 to possibly 5-7/6-6 and a bowl is a trajectory that would likely see a 4th year because of the improvement shown. Mike Macintyre in Colorado didn't even have that kind of trajectory and he's now in his 4th year and doing well obviously.
I can't speak to the position coaches salaries but at least as far as the coordinators go their 450K salaries is about the norm for coordinators who aren't working at top name schools or probably the SEC. I mentioned this the other day but Dave Aranda made 500K at Wisconsin. Justin Wilcox their new DC also makes that much. I believe the MSU coordinators make less. I'm pretty sure Tom Herman made in that 450-550K range as well when he was at OSU and that's obviously a money bags school. So the rate we pay our coordinators is about the norm for most schools I'd think.
Hobbs fixed the Eddie problem after two years. The problem wth the no talent argument, if you buy that nonsense, is that we have not seen any improvement from the beginning of the year to the end. No touchdowns in four Big Ten games? That's a serious coaching issue. We hired a guy with no head coaching experience. There is the distinct possibility he is not a good head coach. So far he has shown absolutely nothing.
EJ was not a Hobbs' hire like Ash is and EJ was here for 3 years. Just about all coaches see 3 years and a large majority likely see 4 years on top of which we're not a money bags school. Even they don't usually let coaches go before 3 years. Charlie Strong has seen 3 years at Texas.
Of course there's a distinct possibility Ash is not a good coach. There's also the possibility that he's good too. I could say the same about a coach who came here with some HC experience. Like I said every situation is different and it's hard to make definitive statements of how a prospect might do in each situation regardless of whether they had HC experience beforehand or not. There's not a pattern. There are a select few "proven" coaches even though many like to throw out that term.
Like I've said here before reverse it. I said was doubtful about Flood when he got hired but look at his start. How many were thinking Flood was going to be great after a 7-0 start, man he saved recruiting class blah blah blah etc.. I didn't see any complaints then. Now he's lower than dirt to many here. Same for Brady Hoke after his first season at Michigan too, just downhill from there. Point being it's just too early to tell whether the results look positive to start or outright atrocious as we've seen this year. You need the benefit of some time to have a clearer picture.
The only place I've been apprehensive about from the start was the OC hire because of his youth and lack of experience combined with the fact that our HC isn't an offensive minded HC. It's not like Spavital when he was at A&M under Sumlin or Lashlee and Malzahn at Auburn, so that made me a little apprehensive. I thought his youth would be good for recruiting but wasn't sure about his coaching chops. I still keep an open mind about him because of the change in system and personnel but wouldn't mind if a co-OC came into the picture. That would require letting one of the position coaches go though and probably a few hundred thousand extra for that person in salary to meet Mehringer's salary as it's not likely to be reduced.
Everything said is true but this year has been historically bad and not buying the no talent issue especially at RB. Completely misused. Special Teams is always coaching. Even if you buy the no talent issue, where is the improvement?
Cuse with a first year coach upset Va Tech and gave their fans hope.
Maryland with a first year coach beat MSU and Purdue in league and gave their fans hope.
Where is R hope?
Cuse with a first year coach upset Va Tech and gave their fans hope.
Maryland with a first year coach beat MSU and Purdue in league and gave their fans hope.
Where is R hope?
I don't prescribe to the belief that it is all talent either. I don't think we're worse than Division 2 across the board and we look so inept solely because of that. There might be slight improvements in the win column and the score sheet but I don't know how much different that makes things in the grand scheme of retooling/rebuilding under a new staff implementing a new scheme.
I do think this staff might not be the best at adapting to what they have but I could say that about other coaches too, even some good ones. But that doesn't mean they can't look better as they start to get their own players for their system in the program.
As to hope, I guess some point to recruiting hopefully going well and I suppose that's true in so much as at least the players should be better suited for the system the staff wants to run. Other than the fact that the system will be better tailored for new recruits I'm not one to focus on recruiting though over coaching/development if you've ever read my posts but you can judge that better at least if the recruits "match." Really all I can say is you need time to judge more clearly. Like I said I'm sure many were on cloud nine and very "hopeful" about Flood after 7-0 and what did that ultimately yield?
I'm not here to sell anyone on anything, just giving reality the way I see it in my view. If it's good it's good, if it's bad it's bad and if it's neutral it's neutral. Of course everyone has their own opinion and reality and that's fine with me. The apprehension, unease, anger, frustration are all normal reactions imo.
You demote him to keep on staff. Recruits should be far more worried about an OC that has no experience and produced this putrid offense. We already lost 2 great RB commits because of Mehringer's offense.
An historically bad year, but a few playmakers can make a real difference. Just imagine if Grant had not been injured this year, and that's only one guy. Three stars out of high school. It will get better. Help is on the horizon in terms of recruits and transfers. Our coaches will learn through experience. There's almost always a bottoming before a program gets turned around.
Who does get fired if you demote him? I guess if the new rule goes into affect where one more coach can be added would solve the problem but if that don't happen somebody has to go to add a coach and keep him.
Mehringer has to go. I don't care if Hobbs tells him or he makes that choice on his own.
We got blanked by a team with 2 wins! Furman did what we could not!
We got blanked by a team with 2 wins! Furman did what we could not!
Doesn't take a rocket scientist. What parent wants to send their kid to an offense that is dead last (that's the truth) in every single offensive category.
If we showed any signs of progress that our coaching staff could sell, we might not lose both.
Ash will get at least 3 years, but his coaching staff might be toast if RU plays Marylend like they have been playing.
Ash's choice when hiring assistants seem to be the same as Kyle Flood did when he first became RU's HC.
Flood hired assistants he knew and felt comfortable around and they might not have been the best Kyle could have hired and right for the job they were hired to do.
Decent coaches, but not the type that makes the talent their coaching rise because of the coaching that talent is getting.
Ash seems to have hired more on a comfort level, than best he could get and the play on the field reflects the coaching ability of Ash's staff.
The assistants that Ash hired might be pretty good coaches, but not the type to help RU be more competitive in B1G play and/or not suited for the position their holding, in a major conference , with the coaching skills they have.
Mehringer might have made an excellent WR/QB Coach, but ( right now) it looks like he's not a P-5 OC this point in his career, the way the RU O looks with him as the OC.
The rest might not be B1G coaching talent and more suited at the mid-major level.
Ash's choice when hiring assistants seem to be the same as Kyle Flood did when he first became RU's HC.
Flood hired assistants he knew and felt comfortable around and they might not have been the best Kyle could have hired and right for the job they were hired to do.
Decent coaches, but not the type that makes the talent their coaching rise because of the coaching that talent is getting.
Ash seems to have hired more on a comfort level, than best he could get and the play on the field reflects the coaching ability of Ash's staff.
The assistants that Ash hired might be pretty good coaches, but not the type to help RU be more competitive in B1G play and/or not suited for the position their holding, in a major conference , with the coaching skills they have.
Mehringer might have made an excellent WR/QB Coach, but ( right now) it looks like he's not a P-5 OC this point in his career, the way the RU O looks with him as the OC.
The rest might not be B1G coaching talent and more suited at the mid-major level.
Things are going worse than expected score wise, but this year and next year are expected to be bad years. I'm really curious to know what people's expectations are - I really think there are people out there who realistically expected us to make a bowl. So you think the way to success is to have the AD to fully take control and force the hand of the HC to make fires and hires on his staff?????...,,PATIENCE PEOPLE PLEASE!
I expect losing seasons the next 3 years , but expect RU to become more competitive every year.
Expect blowouts next season, but not having RU prove to be as inept like they have shown against the top programs.
What gives me hope is the way RU played Iowa, Minnesota and Indiana this season and I feel better coaching might have pulled off a win or two there along with better play against Illi.
Maryland is the game Ash and his staff can prove they might have the chops to
make RU FB a success if given a few more years to bring the talent RU needs to be competitive with the big boys of the B1G and PSU has put themselves in that category this season.
RU has shown it's not even close to that and is so far away it's a joke when Rutgers plays the top B1G programs.
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