Would you rather be in the B1G or ACC?

[BoroKnight]

Truth be told, I wish the Big East had admitted Penn State back in the 80s and, when it was time to bring us aboard, was strong enough to lure Maryland. A strong, financially secure Eastern conference would have been my preference. Boston College, Connecticut, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Penn State, Temple, Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia Tech and Miami would have been nice. And even if Va Tech and Miami went to the ACC anyway (where they belong), we could have been very, very selective in picking other teams -- USF and UCF most likely -- because we would have been in a position of strength. But turning down Penn State, even though we had nothing to do with it, turned out to be a Rutgers-type decision for the Big East (which is now what it should be anyway).

But, given the choice of Big Ten or ACC, I'll take the Big Ten. Stronger overall, awesome alumni bases, peer institutions, BTN, finances.

 

[sherrane]

We could compete in the Big 10. It's just that our administration chooses not to ... it has decided that it would rather spend less money and be one of the worst teams in the league. If we went out and hired a name coach, we'd be a 2nd tier Big 10 team in two or three years. We simply choose not to do so.

RU's struggles in the B1G was primarily because Flood was unable to run a program and recruit. RU was 3-5 in the first season in the B1G (Flood's 3rd), which includes a disappointing 13-10 loss to Penn State in which RU should have won. Sure, RU lost by a combined 118 points to National Champion Ohio State, #5 Michigan State, and #13 Wisconsin. Maryland lost to the same three teams by a combined 95 points that season. Later, Ohio State took Wisconsin to the woodshed in the B1G Championship Game that season 59-0. Blowouts can happen to good teams when they are playing championship caliber opponents.

Hiring a "name coach" isn't necessarily the answer. Kansas hired Charlie Weis in 2012 who won 6 games in 3 seasons and left the program worse than he found it. Michigan hired Jim Harbaugh in 2015 who has failed to elevate their program. Every year someone hires a coach who will surely turn their program around, only to fall short.

Rutgers would probably win two more games in each of the last two seasons had Louisville and Maryland joined the B1G while RU joined the ACC. RU has 4 ranked-quality teams in the division rather than 2 they'd have in the ACC Atlantic. We'd be about the level of Pitt (who got crushed by PSU 51-6) or BC had RU joined the ACC. Pitt has gone to the Military and Pinstripe in their last two bowl seasons (missed last year), while BC has gone to the Pinstripe and Quick Lane bowls the past two seasons (and didn't go to one three seasons ago). For those who are arguing we'd be more competitive, this is what we are missing... Big East quality bowl games.

 

[sherrane]

Oh they will ... but they won't get blown out by each other. However, I think it's more likely than not we'll get blown out by Ohio State, Maryland and Indiana. There's always going to a "best team in the conference" - you can't expect to compete with the best team every year. But we should be able to expect to compete with most of the teams in the conference every year (not win, just compete).

Last season RU was outscored by Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State, and Michigan by 139 points. Maryland was outscored by the same four teams by 146 points while Indiana was only outscored by 74. Sure 2016 was horrific because RU did not score a single point against those four team in the transition to the option (outscored 224-0), but Maryland was outscored by 120 by these four opponents as well. We are closer to Maryland than you think we are and Indiana has more competitive than either. RU is 2-2 against both Indiana and Maryland since joining the conference.

 

[koleszar]

The athletic department is projected to loose $38.6 M this year. Where might the money come from to hire your dream coach and coordinators, seriously?

Are these numbers from Mark Killingsworth? In 2017 the athletic department received $21.3 mil. in direct subsidy from the University. And $2 mil. of that is for the Universities responsibilities to Title IX. Other schools don't report that as a subsidy we do. So really it's $19.3 mil. this is the only number which matters.

Other schools don't have student fees because other schools make you pay for intermural sports, use of facilities and sporting event tickets. At those schools the few pay a lot and those few only have access. Students want a liberal University like Rutgers everyone pays a little, so everyone has access to everything.

 

[RUTGERSCHEWY]

Given the choice, I would rather be in the ACC, we would be more competitive there, keep some established rivalries with Pitt and Syracuse, etc. However, to me the more interesting question is if you could go back and time and the choice would be to keep the old Big East with Miami and Vtech or you can have the way it fell into place with us going to the B1G, what would you rather have?

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I think we are where we belong both academically and athletically. Football is the toughest sport to excel in and it will probably take us a long time to get even, if ever, with the best teams in our division, But, the rest of our teams will get there. Financially, it is definitely a win for RU.

the financial side benefits a very small number of people.

it doesn't benefit the fan one iota.

fact is, the fan is the one funding the financial side of it, not the one benefiting from it.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

The 80 people who actually voted for the ACC must be either trolls or snowfakes who are butt hurt after a lost.

 

[BuckeyeLegion]

Complaining about the refs and wanting to go to the ACC? Did I stumble onto BWI here?

 

[50 yd line RR]

Given the choice, I would rather be in the ACC, we would be more competitive there, keep some established rivalries with Pitt and Syracuse, etc. However, to me the more interesting question is if you could go back and time and the choice would be to keep the old Big East with Miami and Vtech or you can have the way it fell into place with us going to the B1G, what would you rather have?

I would have been in for the northeast all sports conference that was proposed. Although I think with all the changes and cut throat nature of college athletics we are in a better place to survive.
The competition is Tenacious, but by the end of the day,we will compete. With all the financial benefits for the athletics and the great prestige afforded the academics by the BIG ,it only adds great value to an RU education and experience.
We really are to big to fail.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Complaining about the refs and wanting to go to the ACC? Did I stumble onto BWI here?

it is embrassing

 

[50 yd line RR]

Complaining about the refs and wanting to go to the ACC? Did I stumble onto BWI here?

Is that like biting the hand that feeds you?
Or looking a gift horse in the mouth.?
Either way there are a lot of people on this board who look at the way things are, and not at what will/could be.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Is that like biting get the hand that feeds you?
Or looking a gift horse in the mouth.?
Either way there are a lot of people on this board who look at the way things are, and not at what will/could be.

It's called being shortsighted.

 

[superfan01]

@Gimmy is a pathetic troll who hates the program.

 

[BuckeyeLegion]

Is that like biting get the hand that feeds you?
Or looking a gift horse in the mouth.?
Either way there are a lot of people on this board who look at the way things are, and not at what will/could be.

I might agree with @Scarlet_Scourge that it's shortsighted. People seem to feel that Rutgers is getting screwed too, maybe because Maryland got more of their money upfront to get out of the ACC? But it's not like Rutgers was singled out when it comes to distribution.

 

[RURM85]

If we were in the ACC, schools like Clemson and Miami would be beating us today in the same form as Ohio State and Michigan. Anyone that thinks we’d be more competitive with an ACC schedule against upper and mid-tier ACC schools is sadly mistaken. Our big game this year would be against Virginia.

 

[sherrane]

If we were in the ACC, schools like Clemson and Miami would be beating us today in the same form as Ohio State and Michigan. Anyone that thinks we’d be more competitive with an ACC schedule against upper and mid-tier ACC schools is sadly mistaken. Our big game this year would be against Virginia.

Clemson and Miami are in different divisions. Rutgers plays 5 ranked B1G teams this season (Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Michigan State). There are a total of 3 ranked teams in the ACC.

 

[RURM85]

Clemson and Miami are in different divisions. Rutgers plays 5 ranked B1G teams this season (Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Michigan State). There are a total of 3 ranked teams in the ACC.

The issue here is not how the Conferences determined their divisions and whether it's fair that Rutgers is in a loaded B1G East. It's viewing the Conferences as a whole. Rankings change from week to week, and it's early in the season. I highly doubt we'll see Michigan State maintain it's rank this week, due to its loss to Arizona State. The B1G went 2-1 against the ACC this week and 0-2 against the Pac12 this week. Nevertheless, with today's current football program, we would have the same difficulties winning in-conference games in either conference. It wouldn't matter. We'd lose many years in a row to Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin the same as we would against Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech.

 

[BuckeyeLegion]

The issue here is not how the Conferences determined their divisions and whether it's fair that Rutgers is in a loaded B1G East. It's viewing the Conferences as a whole. Rankings change from week to week, and it's early in the season. I highly doubt we'll see Michigan State maintain it's rank this week, due to its loss to Arizona State. The B1G went 2-1 against the ACC this week and 0-2 against the Pac12 this week. Nevertheless, with today's current football program, we would have the same difficulties winning in-conference games in either conference. It wouldn't matter. We'd lose many years in a row to Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin the same as we would against Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech.

Michigan State is 24 in the coaches and 25 in the AP.

 

[RURM85]

Michigan State is 24 in the coaches and 25 in the AP.

And as stated, they didn't maintain their rank as they dropped 8 spots from prior to their loss.

 

[sherrane]

The issue here is not how the Conferences determined their divisions and whether it's fair that Rutgers is in a loaded B1G East. It's viewing the Conferences as a whole. Rankings change from week to week, and it's early in the season. I highly doubt we'll see Michigan State maintain it's rank this week, due to its loss to Arizona State. The B1G went 2-1 against the ACC this week and 0-2 against the Pac12 this week. Nevertheless, with today's current football program, we would have the same difficulties winning in-conference games in either conference. It wouldn't matter. We'd lose many years in a row to Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin the same as we would against Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech.

Michigan State dropped 10 and 11 spots to be ranked 25th and 24th in the AP and Coaches Poll respectively.

The ACC is 2-5 against P5 conferences this season whereas the B1G is 5-4 (counting Michigan's loss to Notre Dame). This week the ACC has one OOC P5 opponent (West Virginia at NC State) whereas the B1G has three (RU at Kansas, Missouri at Purdue, and Ohio State at TCU). Next week will feature one game as Boston College travels to Purdue. I do not believe you can find an objective measure where the ACC is equal to the B1G. Colley has B1G #1 and the ACC #5, Anderson has the B1G #1 and the ACC #3.

 

[bitnez]

I appreciate that Flood crushed the program but I have seen enough of Ash to recognize that he’s not a transcendent coach. It doesn’t mean he’s not a good solid coach or that we can’t get us consistently winning 5-7 games. But, he’s not the type of coach that will pull us into the 8-10 win category every year. I may be proven wrong — and I hope so because he isn’t going anywhere — but if this is the level of coaching we’re going to have we probably would’ve been better off in the ACC. Yeah, I get it, I wanted the B1G as much as anyone but I never envisioned that we would be completely non-competitive against the better teams in the league. In short, this simply isn’t much fun.

 

[BuckeyeLegion]

And as stated, they didn't maintain their rank as they dropped 8 spots from prior to their loss.

Oh, so your point was not that MSU would no longer be ranked, but that they would fall after losing? Keen insight. And it's actually 11 and 10 spots, respectively.

 

[RURM85]

Michigan State dropped 10 and 11 spots to be ranked 25th and 24th in the AP and Coaches Poll respectively.

The ACC is 2-5 against P5 conferences this season whereas the B1G is 5-4 (counting Michigan's loss to Notre Dame). This week the ACC has one OOC P5 opponent (West Virginia at NC State) whereas the B1G has three (RU at Kansas, Missouri at Purdue, and Ohio State at TCU). Next week will feature one game as Boston College travels to Purdue. I do not believe you can find an objective measure where the ACC is equal to the B1G. Colley has B1G #1 and the ACC #5, Anderson has the B1G #1 and the ACC #3.

I understand the B1G this year is a better conference. My question to you is who do you think we're beating in the ACC and would it result in more wins than the B1G. Don't give me Syracuse or Boston College. Dungey would have a field day against the Rutgers defense. Maybe Rutgers beats Virginia, UNC, Pitt. No difference then Illinois, Indiana, Purdue.

 

[Bamm Bamm Rubble]

What's the hell happened to this place? This is disgusting

 

[bitnez]

What's the hell happened to this place? This is disgusting

Another total humiliation. Whether the other team is great or not it tends to suck the “zest” out of some fans. I appreciate the hell out of the fans that are still super positive. I kept my positivity during the Shea/early GS years. I know many of you did as well but at some point it’s easier to be indifferent (or wave the white flag) than accept our lot. It isn’t life and death — it’s supposed to be fun. And this isn’t.

But, I’ll be there in 2 weeks hoping (yet again) for the best.

 

[NickKnight 1]

We were?

Yes you don't remember the three way third place tie?

 

[Jimpeg]

we would rather play in football cuse, boston college, pitt, va tech, virginia

or OSU Mich,MSU, PSU, Maryland..

I think long term the ACC would have been better for most of the sports..

 

[RU Cheese]

@Gimmy is a pathetic troll who hates the program.

wasnt he the guy who started the hottest dudes threads back in the day?

 

[sherrane]

I understand the B1G this year is a better conference. My question to you is who do you think we're beating in the ACC and would it result in more wins than the B1G. Don't give me Syracuse or Boston College. Dungey would have a field day against the Rutgers defense. Maybe Rutgers beats Virginia, UNC, Pitt. No difference then Illinois, Indiana, Purdue.

You are entitled to your opinion. If we were in the ACC Atlantic in Louisville's spot, we'd finish above Syracuse, Wake, and Florida State. Clemson, NC State, and probably Boston College finish above us. With RU's OOC schedule and with Louisville's conference schedule (@Virginia, Florida State, Georgia Tech, @Boston College, Wake Forest, @Clemson, @Syracuse, NC State) I think RU wins 7 or 8 games (I am expecting 3-0 OOC). Clemson is the only top team in those 11 games. Throw in an FCS game because we're in the ACC and this RU team could win 8 or 9 games.

 

[BoogieKnight]

If we were in the ACC, schools like Clemson and Miami would be beating us today in the same form as Ohio State and Michigan. Anyone that thinks we’d be more competitive with an ACC schedule against upper and mid-tier ACC schools is sadly mistaken. Our big game this year would be against Virginia.

* Clemson is the only true NATIONAL contender in the ACC right now. FSU is down and Miami, while better, has a lot left to prove.
* Ohio State is the only true NATIONAL contender in the B1G right now. I don’t see them losing a conference game this year.

Keep in mind when I say national contender I mean can go to the final four and actually win BOTH games.
Bama, Georgia and Oklahoma are the other 3 THIS SEASON.

Michigan running it up on us and kicking us while we were down was about as flukey as WVU beating us 80-7 during Schiano’s first year. They are not the national power they once were and Harbaugh is not convincing me he’s bringing them back. So if he can’t at $9M per year, who will? UM, PSU, MSU and Wisconsin cannot compete with Bama, Clemson, etc. MSU went 3 years ago and Bama steamrolled them. Penn States defense is soft. Wisconsin’s OL is phenomenal but they lack the speed on the outside to hurt a top tier defense. OSU is the most complete team in the conference. And now with Haskins they can throw it too.

Overall physicality B1G is better but ACC more athletic. I’d still prefer RU in the the ACC.

 

[50 yd line RR]

I might agree with @Scarlet_Scourge that it's shortsighted. People seem to feel that Rutgers is getting screwed too, maybe because Maryland got more of their money upfront to get out of the ACC? But it's not like Rutgers was singled out when it comes to distribution.

I agree. The biggest problem that has plagued this Iniversity has been money. Being in the BIG will give us the best possible chance to
Reach the max potential for all our sports as we'll as academics.
In the realignment sweepstakes we were the biggest winners out of everyone.
I wouldn't be saying that if we were in the ACC.
The BIG has the best of both worlds academics and athletics.

 

[TheB1GTerp]

Dear RU fans,

What are you F thinking? Almost every school in the ACC would trade with you in 1 second save for UNC and Wake. The refs may suck in the B1G, but their not corrupt. The games are tougher, but the rewards are higher. We won the 3rd most football conference championships behind FSU and Clemson when we left, and still prefer the B1G. Stay off the crack, Rutgers problems are not the fault of the B1G. If anything money will fix facilities.

Signed Maryland fan.

 

[50 yd line RR]

Dear RU fans,

What are you F thinking? Almost every school in the ACC would trade with you in 1 second save for UNC and Wake. The refs may suck in the B1G, but their not corrupt. The games are tougher, but the rewards are higher. We won the 3rd most football conference championships behind FSU and Clemson when we left, and still prefer the B1G. Stay off the crack, Rutgers problems are not the fault of the B1G. If anything money will fix facilities.

Signed Maryland fan.

Gotta agree with the Maryland fan.

 

[Bamm Bamm Rubble]

Dear RU fans,

What are you F thinking? Almost every school in the ACC would trade with you in 1 second save for UNC and Wake. The refs may suck in the B1G, but their not corrupt. The games are tougher, but the rewards are higher. We won the 3rd most football conference championships behind FSU and Clemson when we left, and still prefer the B1G. Stay off the crack, Rutgers problems are not the fault of the B1G. If anything money will fix facilities.

Signed Maryland fan.

You're talking to the same forum who did not want Lincoln Riley snd Scott Frost.

 

[scarletbergen]

We NEED to be realistic....we are playing with the biggest and best of the best. We must
1-Accept that our goal -be 4th in the Big 10 east and get a bowl! That’s the standard, and it ain’t easy!
2-Demand that our goal, to be 4th and a bowl, is within reach
3-Schedule a very weak non-conference slate
4-Win the games we can win, get crushed in at least 3 out of 4 conference games every year...someday we can hope to make that better, not now. We need to get to 4th place for 5 years in a row before we can change our 4th place goal.
5-Accept that it’s not the Coaches! On average, OSU, PS, MS and M are and will be bigger, faster and deeper. Change the Coach, same problem. That’s the whole sport!
6-The AD must negotiate for us to get a workable schedule. This years schedule is very good, except for Wisconsin.

 

[dconifer]

We NEED to be realistic....we are playing with the biggest and best of the best. We must
1-Accept that our goal -be 4th in the Big 10 east and get a bowl! That’s the standard, and it ain’t easy!
2-Demand that our goal, to be 4th and a bowl, is within reach
3-Schedule a very weak non-conference slate
4-Win the games we can win, get crushed in at least 3 out of 4 conference games every year...someday we can hope to make that better, not now. We need to get to 4th place for 5 years in a row before we can change our 4th place goal.
5-Accept that it’s not the Coaches! On average, OSU, PS, MS and M are and will be bigger, faster and deeper. Change the Coach, same problem. That’s the whole sport!
6-The AD must negotiate for us to get a workable schedule. This years schedule is very good, except for Wisconsin.

I think you should dream bigger than that. Get the right people, etc., and what seems like a perpetual pecking order can change.

Michigan State wasn't very good at football until recently. Now they're thought of as a B1G leader and is a mainstay in the polls...

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Dear RU fans,

What are you F thinking? Almost every school in the ACC would trade with you in 1 second save for UNC and Wake. The refs may suck in the B1G, but their not corrupt. The games are tougher, but the rewards are higher. We won the 3rd most football conference championships behind FSU and Clemson when we left, and still prefer the B1G. Stay off the crack, Rutgers problems are not the fault of the B1G. If anything money will fix facilities.

Signed Maryland fan.

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times this!

 

[NotInRHouse]

This is completely stupid

Money: B1G > ACC
Academics: B1G > ACC
TV: B1G > ACC
Prestige: B1G > ACC
Stability: B1G > ACC

Guys, we lost to EMU last year. You really think we'd be dominating in the ACC? It would actually be way worse, because we'd stand the risk of losing to teams like Cuse or Pitt that we built a record of dominating during the prior decade, rather than losing to Ohio State that loses 1-2 games a year tops.

We went 7-5 in 2014 with Flood at the helm. Is anyone dumb enough to suggest that that is the permanent high water mark? Ohio State is the only team in our division that we didn't beat or wouldn't have beaten save bad coaching since joining. Remember MSU in 15 being in the top 10 that we basically had beaten with Norries as HC? Meanwhile we can't get back to winning with any other coach or QB?

I won't even get into what the B1G means for other other sports or the school as a whole. Did you all miss (or not care about) the news that RU was #56- a 13 spot jump- in the rankings- and tied for #5 in conference? How applications went up? How we're doing in wrestling or women's soccer?

We have 4 winnable conference games coming up between now and the end of November. Please stop screeching and embarrassing the fanbase. This a low point even on this board.

 

[RURM85]

This is completely stupid

Money: B1G > ACC
Academics: B1G > ACC
TV: B1G > ACC
Prestige: B1G > ACC
Stability: B1G > ACC

Guys, we lost to EMU last year. You really think we'd be dominating in the ACC? It would actually be way worse, because we'd stand the risk of losing to teams like Cuse or Pitt that we built a record of dominating during the prior decade, rather than losing to Ohio State that loses 1-2 games a year tops.

We went 7-5 in 2014 with Flood at the helm. Is anyone dumb enough to suggest that that is the permanent high water mark? Ohio State is the only team in our division that we didn't beat or wouldn't have beaten save bad coaching since joining. Remember MSU in 15 being in the top 10 that we basically had beaten with Norries as HC? Meanwhile we can't get back to winning with any other coach or QB?

I won't even get into what the B1G means for other other sports or the school as a whole. Did you all miss (or not care about) the news that RU was #56- a 13 spot jump- in the rankings- and tied for #5 in conference? How applications went up? How we're doing in wrestling or women's soccer?

We have 4 winnable conference games coming up between now and the end of November. Please stop screeching and embarrassing the fanbase. This a low point even on this board.

You said it all. Anyone who thinks at this stage we'd be more competitive in football from a W-L performance standpoint in the ACC is mistaken. In the ACC, there would be 3 or so winnable in-conference games this season, same as the B1G.

 

[50 yd line RR]

We NEED to be realistic....we are playing with the biggest and best of the best. We must
1-Accept that our goal -be 4th in the Big 10 east and get a bowl! That’s the standard, and it ain’t easy!
2-Demand that our goal, to be 4th and a bowl, is within reach
3-Schedule a very weak non-conference slate
4-Win the games we can win, get crushed in at least 3 out of 4 conference games every year...someday we can hope to make that better, not now. We need to get to 4th place for 5 years in a row before we can change our 4th place goal.
5-Accept that it’s not the Coaches! On average, OSU, PS, MS and M are and will be bigger, faster and deeper. Change the Coach, same problem. That’s the whole sport!
6-The AD must negotiate for us to get a workable schedule. This years schedule is very good, except for Wisconsin.

You can't accept anything. You need to keep
grinding. We're just getting started here but
as time goes you have to strive to get better. That's all. If everyone was in a fixed spot there would not be great Florida State and Miami teams. The Ivy's would be perennial powerhouses. My point is everything is always changing.I remember hearing someone ask Dr. Barchi about our program. He said basically we'll never compete with Ohio State. Wrong answer.
Bob Mulcahy and Greg Schiano ( when asked a similar question) in the Big East. Their response was " we are here to win championships".They never won a championship, but they kept moving the program forward.
Your second point with scheduling , your not making any demands with the Big Ten Conference. Period.
Bottom line we're in a new era of Rutgers football. Great new facilities and hopefully more money for coaches.We also have a very talented recruiting base . Recruit better players and coach em up see what happens.
A very good Rutgers program would be a big plus for the BIG with this market. It's coming, like many here I just hope it's in my lifetime. Lol.