You do realize this is at minimum a 5-year rebuild

[Goku]

I hope you all have the patience to get through this, because I don't see this roster being turned around fully until maybe Geo and Duke's senior years. Too much to overcome.

And if your argument is that it has been too long since and you can't wait that long anymore, my response is "too bad." We have the right guy who is showing signs of following through on a good plan. But it will take time...enjoy the ride and watching the players that are crucial members of the rebuild continue to develop and grow.

 

[shields]

Agree, look at Penn State. How long did it take Chambers to get that Carr class?

 

[Plum Street]

Agreed. But it doesn’t mean we have to enjoy the losing and beat downs . It is ok to be for fans to voice frustration.

 

[RocktheRac]

2020

 

[TDIrish27]

Agree-----yes it is------although difficult fans need patience.

 

[Duff366]

Wouldn't surprise me if recruits look at these boards. That is reason enough to keep too much negativity off this board. There will be a bunch more losses this year because we don't have the talent. But we have the right coach, these players have played hard, and next year we have help coming.

 

[higgins3]

3 more years of competitive games for the most part? I'll sign up for that. Coach is great, and he is getting everything possible out of his players.

 

[KnightTerrors]

People seem to forget we start 2 true freshman and a sophomore with our first player off the bench a sophomore as well.

If you can’t see the progress being made then you weren’t watching the program closely over recent years.

 

[Upstream]

Rebuild? You mean build.

And 5 years to build to what? Pike is in his second year. I think he gets us to a winning season and postseason bid by year 4. NCAA bid will probably have to wait until year 5, give or take.

 

[Mr_Twister]

No one has been correct about the duration of the Rutgers basketball rebuild in the last 3 decades.

 

[Mr Magoo]

It shouldn't be but it looks like it will be.

 

[G- RUnit]

Bannon was oh so close. Think Rice would have. Others not so much.

 

[bowlgoal]

I think we make some big time strides in 2019. 2018 has too many unanswered questions at this moment? We don’t know about our point guard situation or if there will be more shooters added and I’m wondering who will make up for Freeman’s rebounding?

Corey stays, we get a few replacements who are shooters, Carter adds a big impact and Johnson becomes a contributor, 2018 turns into a possibly very good season. If any of the things above don’t happen, the season could be a struggle.

By 2019, there should be experience plus some highly touted freshman who come in. That might take a year to work out the kinks and then 2020 could be the year? Or, maybe it all comes together on 2019 even with the young freshman?


Enjoy watching the games and don’t worry so much about the record right now. I want to see our guys fight like hell the rest of the way. Hopefully they understand that the fans are supporting them regardless. We were a few possessions away from beating Nebraska. When you play your ass off and have a good coach, it’s possible to knock off any of these remaining teams with the exception of Purdue.

Hopefully we start by beating Penn State on the road.

 

[PatrickRU92]

I think we'll be better next year IF Corey stays but I still don't think he will.

He's a good player however he has zero shot at the NBA. I think he's going to choose to get paid somewhere. I really hope I'm wrong.

And if I'm right I think next year will be a long year. I agree with OP. Patience is needed, sadly.

 

[RUChoppin]

The question is what are we "rebuilding".... if it's a rebuild back to where we were toward the end of the Waters era, then it'll be shorter than if it's a rebuild back to the NCAAs.

And as Upstream says, it's really not a "rebuild" at this point but a "build". We have never been a contender at this level before - even with our success in the mid/late 70s, we weren't in the type of meat grinder conference we're in today.

If Sanders stays, that will accelerate the build. If he goes, it'll take a bit longer. Having seasoned upperclassmen is a big benefit to incoming freshmen. Playing alongside Sanders has helped Baker, and it will also help Mathis next year.

With Sanders next year, we might be knocking on the NIT door in Pike's 3rd year. In his fourth year, if we can continue improving the roster, we could make the postseason (NIT) for the first time in 14 years. By year five, I'd like to think that we'd be a solid NIT team and a bubble NCAA team.

Right now, though, I'm just happy to see an upward trajectory. Really happy seeing where things are going.

 

[RUAEPI]

I think we'll be better next year IF Corey stays but I still don't think he will.

He's a good player however he has zero shot at the NBA. I think he's going to choose to get paid somewhere. I really hope I'm wrong.

And if I'm right I think next year will be a long year. I agree with OP. Patience is needed, sadly.

We are a good team with a couple additions now. I think Coach P can get this turned around much quicker than 5 years. If everyone follows Eugene in the off season, this team will continue to improve!!! But what is the measuring stick because I have taken an inch off of mine every year since our NCAA appearance.

You cannot blame Corey if he does leave. If he is looking at earning potential, the lost year is hard to make up, and he can finish his education. He has been transparent with his intentions, and I wish him the best. If he did stay, this team would take a much bigger step next year.

 

[bowlgoal]

The question is what are we "rebuilding".... if it's a rebuild back to where we were toward the end of the Waters era, then it'll be shorter than if it's a rebuild back to the NCAAs.

And as Upstream says, it's really not a "rebuild" at this point but a "build". We have never been a contender at this level before - even with our success in the mid/late 70s, we weren't in the type of meat grinder conference we're in today.

If Sanders stays, that will accelerate the build. If he goes, it'll take a bit longer. Having seasoned upperclassmen is a big benefit to incoming freshmen. Playing alongside Sanders has helped Baker, and it will also help Mathis next year.

With Sanders next year, we might be knocking on the NIT door in Pike's 3rd year. In his fourth year, if we can continue improving the roster, we could make the postseason (NIT) for the first time in 14 years. By year five, I'd like to think that we'd be a solid NIT team and a bubble NCAA team.

Right now, though, I'm just happy to see an upward trajectory. Really happy seeing where things are going.

You should be happy, everyone should? This is a different build then we had under any of these prior coaches. I’m not sure how Eddie got Corey here but as far as talent to compete at this level; you need more than one Corey. Freeman would be an excellent 6th man off the bench for a good team. He wouldn’t have take some of the shots he takes and he would be playing with another big man who can post, score and rebound.

The difference when we attend games now is that they are mostly very competitive. Our opponents play just as hard so nothing comes easy especially when we struggle shooting the ball. But the games are fun and that’s the difference. We need to sell out all of these Big 10 games and the team is doing their job of playing good ball. If we can get 40,000 to go to football games, we should be able to get 8,000 to the RAC and yes, even on a Wednesday night?

 

[eja92]

There is no reason it should take five years. We have a great head coach and staff and next year in all likelihood the roster (perhaps other than Doorson) will be entirely made up of their recruits. We should be in the postseason in 2018 and then improve incrementally from there.

 

[mikefla]

Agree, look at Penn State. How long did it take Chambers to get that Carr class?

EXACTLY

Why is it we at Rutgers always think it take 5 years.
It doesnt take Penn State or Nebraska 5 years
Nebraska had 4 1st year guys(2 transfers) who popped buckets from all over the place

With Sanders we will be pretty decent
Without Sanders we will be a shade less...possibly
But who knows who coach P brings in?

Lets stop with the excuses and enjoy year TWO of our present "rebuild"

 

[TDIrish27]

If you're really looking at this as a long term build maybe better that Sanders moves on.

 

[RUChoppin]

For those saying "look how quickly they turned it around at Nebraska and PA State!"...

It's Pat Chambers' 7th year, and he still hasn't made the post season or gone .500 in conference.
It's Tim Miles 6th year - he's made the postseason once (his 2nd year), but he hasn't been back or gone .500 in conference in any of his other years.

As they say, it frequently takes many years to become an overnight success.

 

[RUChoppin]

If you're really looking at this as a long term build maybe better that Sanders moves on.

Sanders staying as a seasoned senior would be a big boost to the development of Baker (So), Mathis (Fr), and Kiss (RS So)... so I don't think it'd be better that he moves on. Getting to practice against a cagey vet, play alongside him in games, and watch him defend and break down defenses from the bench would help accelerate their development.

Sanders staying for 2018-19 makes us a better team not just in 2018-19, but also in 2019-20.

 

[bac2therac]

year 5 or year 6 for NCAA...and that is with solid recruiting which means 2019 haul needs to be very strong

everyone needs to keep remembering this

I think too many people get out of control when RU gets a big win like SHU or plays competitive. Playing competitive is not being successful...it means taking a stop from awful to just scratching the surface like every other programs. We have taken that step but cannot take the next step until better recruits come in.

Pike may be a great coach but if he does not recruit at the level of the rest of the league then it will not matter and RU will struggle to be better than a 500 team

the rise up the charts in the Big 10 is harder than you think. Many assumed this year RU would be leapfrogging a bunch of programs...reality is setting in that RU is almost assuredly finishing in the bottom 4 and is probably 50/50 to finish last again.

 

[bac2therac]

for those saying it takes less than 5 years are ignoring the fact that RU was/is behind every other school in this league in support, recruiting, donations, fanbase, perception.

Pike may not even get to the NCAA in year 5 or year 6..but if he tooks us to the NIT that actually would be success for a moribund program. It quite well may workout like that and it might be year 7 as RU would never fire a coach or shouldnt that has RU going 20-12 with NIT appearances

 

[Goku]

Have patience and faith in the rebuild. It will help to get rid of 2 non-pike players who like to play hero ball (iso ball) in freeman and Corey (let’s hope he goes. Time to move on and learn to play without him). Hopefully bullock transfers. I doubt Mensah will transfer.

 

[soundcrib]

Feeling good about players headed out only works when we feel better about players coming in. And justifying diamonds in the rough and under recruited players doesn’t do that for me.

I want Montez Mathis to be nasty. But folks are tempering our expectations next year about his level of contribution.

Pikiell’s recruiting is eerily similar to Ash’s. How is that working out?

 

[tjb]

As a long-time connoisseur of overmatched basketball teams (Penn State fan) who has really admired the effort of the Rutgers team under Pikiell, let me offer this:

1. To compete, a coach needs to recruit kids that other P5 teams really want. 51-150 range. OR he needs to get extremely lucky with two, and more likely three, "reaches" (kids with no other P5 offers) turning into all-league types (not first team, necessarily) in the same cluster. Both things are very, very difficult to do when you are in Rutgers and Penn State's positions in the hierarchy. Ninety percent of the recruiting is the name on the front of the jersey - look at the schools for the 2018 ESPN top 50. Spotting under-the-radar talent is hard when there are some 1200+ D1 coaches whose livelihoods depend on being able to do so out there trying to find it, too.
2. Really hard to keep pushing for an entire season at the level the current Rutgers squad needs to push to be competitive in any Big 10 game, particularly when the rewards are so infrequent. RU didn't seem to be able to reach its best level against Penn State and certainly didn't last night. Remember, Illinois is looking at that game just the way RU might: As a potential rare win. And Illinois has four four-star players on its roster - Big 10-level players.
3. It is very rare for a program to go from sub-mediocre to sustained winners. Wisconsin and Pitt are two examples from the past couple of decades and both are struggling now. Doing so may be the "magic' of some new coach, may be due to a change in circumstance (Big East/ESPN formation in the late 70s, Oregon spending a ton, and allegedly cheating), or a mystical combination of all (less the cheating) with an extremely heavy dose of luck. RU is in a position to make a move because of the Big 10 affiliation (exposure and money), it's got a coach that many people who know what they are talking about seem to have confidence in, it's in a fertile recruiting area. I think PSU and RU could both have used a full implosion of the Big East. Even without that, RU should be in a position to develop relationships with those rank 51-150 kids to land a few in the next few years.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

no coach would admit this - but the way that the glitches and hiccups and sub optimal events have played out may be OK -
the adversity can be tempering - can provide openings for learning time - gradually & firmly imprint the desired work ethic -

In some ways a fluky magical streak of way-over-their-heads performances (but stuff that would not reliably be sustainable) could be a complication for the greater long term growth plan for the program - it would be like some lucky gust of wind takes the team aloft - well before they are really really ready to fly.

 

[rubaseball78]

Agree-----yes it is------although difficult fans need patience.

Are you saying I need to be patient for another 25 years? That was said tongue in cheek. I do believe Pikiel has us on the right path. I said in another thread that improvement is not always linear; there will be ups and downs.

 

[FrankZ]

Are you saying I need to be patient for another 25 years? That was said tongue in cheek. I do believe Pikiel has us on the right path. I said in another thread that improvement is not always linear; there will be ups and downs.

I always chuckle at the request for a long-suffering Rutgers die-hard to be patient. We are not getting any younger.

 

[TDIrish27]

Nor am I trust me but the reality is that Coach P is a good coach doing a very hard job.

 

[AshCatchEm]

Anyone who was expecting success before year 4 just doesn't get it. Anyone expecting success in year two has an obvious mental disorder. I'm not sure what to tell you. This is what happens after 4 years of recruiting players who don't have any type of shot.

What's wrong. You people are all upset that we aren't beating teams in year two when the injury bug hits a team already thin as far as depth? Tough ****ing shit. Deal with it.

 

[Degaz-RU]

As a long-time connoisseur of overmatched basketball teams (Penn State fan) who has really admired the effort of the Rutgers team under Pikiell, let me offer this:

1. To compete, a coach needs to recruit kids that other P5 teams really want. 51-150 range. OR he needs to get extremely lucky with two, and more likely three, "reaches" (kids with no other P5 offers) turning into all-league types (not first team, necessarily) in the same cluster. Both things are very, very difficult to do when you are in Rutgers and Penn State's positions in the hierarchy. Ninety percent of the recruiting is the name on the front of the jersey - look at the schools for the 2018 ESPN top 50. Spotting under-the-radar talent is hard when there are some 1200+ D1 coaches whose livelihoods depend on being able to do so out there trying to find it, too.
2. Really hard to keep pushing for an entire season at the level the current Rutgers squad needs to push to be competitive in any Big 10 game, particularly when the rewards are so infrequent. RU didn't seem to be able to reach its best level against Penn State and certainly didn't last night. Remember, Illinois is looking at that game just the way RU might: As a potential rare win. And Illinois has four four-star players on its roster - Big 10-level players.
3. It is very rare for a program to go from sub-mediocre to sustained winners. Wisconsin and Pitt are two examples from the past couple of decades and both are struggling now. Doing so may be the "magic' of some new coach, may be due to a change in circumstance (Big East/ESPN formation in the late 70s, Oregon spending a ton, and allegedly cheating), or a mystical combination of all (less the cheating) with an extremely heavy dose of luck. RU is in a position to make a move because of the Big 10 affiliation (exposure and money), it's got a coach that many people who know what they are talking about seem to have confidence in, it's in a fertile recruiting area. I think PSU and RU could both have used a full implosion of the Big East. Even without that, RU should be in a position to develop relationships with those rank 51-150 kids to land a few in the next few years.

Good post. I agree with the recruiting points made here. It certainly looks like Pike has two underrecruited players (Omoruyi and Baker) who are on their way to becoming highly productive players. But he's 2 for 4 in that department, and the two misses are hurting us in the short term.

Now Pike needs to land 4-star talent in that 51-150 range and coach them up to become dominant players. He already landed Doucoure, but Duke is clearly a bit of a project with good upside. He also landed Mathis, and the hope is that Mathis eventually becomes a 15+ point scorer while also providing tenacious defense and a good all-around floor game. He also got a good looking JUCO, but we really don't know what we're getting with Carter (he's not lighting it up in the stat sheet this year).

Closing out the 2018 class with Manuel would be really nice, and then hitting some home runs in 2019 (starting with Mulcahy) is imperative if we want to be in a position to make the NCAAs in 2019 or 2020.

This is definitely a long haul, but despite our recognition of that, it's sooooo difficult to watch Pike "make the sausage" behind the scenes.

 

[TC4THREE]

I think this is BS. If Jeff Brohm could take over for Hazell at Purdue and make the joke that had become our football program bowl eligible in one year, there is no reason why it should take any coach 5 years to get a basketball team to the NCAA tournament. In basketball it really just takes a few good players, surrounded by competent players, and a good coach. I think you guys are much closer than you think although I can't confess to know how recruiting is going. Your coach knows what he's doing.

 

[FrankZ]

Everything is seemingly more difficult at Rutgers. For instance, only we can take a football conference championship game appearance and B1G invite, and immediately turn that into a downward spiral of disaster.

 

[78CollegeAve]

I hope you all have the patience to get through this, because I don't see this roster being turned around fully until maybe Geo and Duke's senior years. Too much to overcome.

And if your argument is that it has been too long since and you can't wait that long anymore, my response is "too bad." We have the right guy who is showing signs of following through on a good plan. But it will take time...enjoy the ride and watching the players that are crucial members of the rebuild continue to develop and grow.

Amen.

Corey will be somewhere far, far away from Piscataway next season. He's probably thinking the G League, but I think China, New Zealand or Lithuania are better bets. Let's get that out of the way in March and find a grad transfer who wants to start at the 1 next season and then recruit like hell to sign a 1 in November. Hobbs and Knight have got to be able to come up with someone better than Mensah. Right? On to 2020-21.

 

[Debtbubble]

Heard same thing since Craig Littlemind was coach.

 

[rufan4ever]

I hope you all have the patience to get through this, because I don't see this roster being turned around fully until maybe Geo and Duke's senior years. Too much to overcome.

And if your argument is that it has been too long since and you can't wait that long anymore, my response is "too bad." We have the right guy who is showing signs of following through on a good plan. But it will take time...enjoy the ride and watching the players that are crucial members of the rebuild continue to develop and grow.

How does a coach recruit top talent with a 5 year plan to get to post season?
Recruits choosing Rutgers now will come here knowing they have little chance of seeing the NCAA tourney unless they get lucky in their senior year.
I disagree with this 5 year plan.
Somehow Pike and this coaching staff has to sell the program NOW despite the current situation.
They have to sell Rutgers as a program that can be turned quickly with upcoming facilities improvement in a great conference located in the NY metropolitan area. It's all about marketing the potential and convincing a few of the top talent that they can be part of a great story.
These 5 year turnarounds never seem to play out here at Rutgers.
27 years and counting...

 

[soundcrib]

Recruits, especially the really good ones we need, care about 3 things:

1. Going to the NBA
2. Going to the NCAA
3. Playing time

How the heck is a 5 year plan enticing to any elite recruit interested in #1 or #2?

 

[78CollegeAve]

How does a coach recruit top talent with a 5 year plan to get to post season?
Recruits choosing Rutgers now will come here knowing they have little chance of seeing the NCAA tourney unless they get lucky in their senior year.
I disagree with this 5 year plan.
Somehow Pike and this coaching staff has to sell the program NOW despite the current situation.
They have to sell Rutgers as a program that can be turned quickly with upcoming facilities improvement in a great conference located in the NY metropolitan area. It's all about marketing the potential and convincing a few of the top talent that they can be part of a great story.
These 5 year turnarounds never seem to play out here at Rutgers.
27 years and counting...

Uh, I think they’re recruiting like hell and the AAU guys, advisors and, uh, uncles have no interest. You think the typical 4-star from a city in the northeast or at a New England prep school cares whether he’s a short drive from Manhattan or in Manhattan, Kansas? Or thinking about campus diversity, at lifetime business connections or short-term internship opportunities? No, no and no.

Coaches need to convince kids that they can prepare them for the NBA, keep them out of trouble and keep them healthy better than the other power conference schools recruiting them.

If you’ve got a legal way to convince a few of the top talent to come to RU, there are a half dozen under-employed former RU coaches that would love to talk to you.