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Cliff’s Decision Date is Sunday - Alabama

I would not trade either Dylan or Ace. Not a chance. They are the whole reason this season is going to be insanely exciting. Could be one for the ages.

It’s OK to get a little excited Greene.
In reality with the exception of last year the past 5 years have been extremely exciting. Winning is exciting, but winning with core players you have been rooting for a few years is even more exciting.

There is a reason why Cliff has a $1.4M price tag.

D'Angelo Russell is the last B1G freshman to be on the 1st team all B1G team. That was a long time ago.
 
$1.4 M if true is insane, Where did you see that?
To put into context exactly how insane this is...

Assume Cliff is not a first round pick in 2025 (a very safe assumption IMO)...

Further assume that in 2025, he bucks the odds and makes an NBA roster, and receives a standard NBA contract, not a two-way...

Cliff would have to take a PAY CUT to play in the NBA.

I am not questioning the accuracy of these numbers. I am questioning the sustainability of a system that generates these numbers.
 
Since 1990 24 years....there have been only 6 all 1st team B1G freshman
Russell 2015
Sullinger 2011
Hummel 2008
Gordon 2008
Oden 2007
Humphries 2004
0 between 1990 and 2003
 
last 10 years only 5 on the 2nd team
Dickinson 2021
Brazadekis 2019
Lanford 2019
Bridges 2017
Trimble 2015
 
go get paid used to mean leaving early for the pros which I was always fine with. If they want to move into a semi-pro or pro environment than I am fine with that too. Just stop the charade and we can just treat them as such. That's fine too but not everyone has to go along with it and continue to support it.
They are pros. Let’s just stop pretending they are not. The schools will be paying them soon and they will continue to make NIL. It should have happened 30-40 years ago.
 
In reality with the exception of last year the past 5 years have been extremely exciting. Winning is exciting, but winning with core players you have been rooting for a few years is even more exciting.

There is a reason why Cliff has a $1.4M price tag.

D'Angelo Russell is the last B1G freshman to be on the 1st team all B1G team. That was a long time ago.
OK. Don’t be excited for this season. Your choice.
 
To put into context exactly how insane this is...

Assume Cliff is not a first round pick in 2025 (a very safe assumption IMO)...

Further assume that in 2025, he bucks the odds and makes an NBA roster, and receives a standard NBA contract, not a two-way...

Cliff would have to take a PAY CUT to play in the NBA.

I am not questioning the accuracy of these numbers. I am questioning the sustainability of a system that generates these numbers.
Okay but there are players who make over a million to play in Europe. They make a lot more than in the G league. So what? This really isn’t any different. A BIG is valuable in college and in Europe. Cliff is going to do just fine financially even if he doesn’t make it in the NBA.
 
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To put into context exactly how insane this is...

Assume Cliff is not a first round pick in 2025 (a very safe assumption IMO)...

Further assume that in 2025, he bucks the odds and makes an NBA roster, and receives a standard NBA contract, not a two-way...

Cliff would have to take a PAY CUT to play in the NBA.

I am not questioning the accuracy of these numbers. I am questioning the sustainability of a system that generates these numbers.

Well. Not sure that's a great argument.

It's not hard to see that being the starting center on Alabama is of more value than being the #15 man on an NBA roster.

He's basically meaningless to the NBA team and just fills a roster spot (hence the minimum contract).

Look at Zach Edey. He was in arguably worth more to Purdue last year than he would of been to an NBA team.
 
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Well I don't think he meant both.
I took to mean Dylan/Clif or Ace/Clif over Ace/Dylan and no Clif

Potentially a upgrade at Center in exchange for a downgrade.
But we'd still have one superstar guard/wing.

Still a no, lol. We basically have a younger version of the clippers with young Harden and PG.

I mean, maybe the other Dylan.

But I think we’re going to be pleasantly surprised with Lathan. He’s got great hands, very good shooting and ball skills already.
 
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The point is moot. Everyone knew that RU wouldn't be able to match the 7 figure NIL. So RU was out of the picture right of the bat. IF RU had the ability to match the NIL then Cliff would have had to think about it and weigh loyalty (he was crying on senior night) vs. whatever else might be in his mind. But we'll never know because RU was never even in consideration or in the running due to NIL.
and you know that how? So when Richie says it isn't an issue then you're saying he is wrong? If it wasn't in early March but then became so..ok, I get it (since the number $2mil was publicly mentioned recently).... but to say we were out from the get go is in direct contradiction to what our insiders stated. Sorry. I'll take their insights over yours.

Since you've had some difficulty understanding my points in the past let me clarify/summarize. I agree that there is likely NO WAY RU could or would match the more recent NIL offers. I completely disagree that it was that way from the get go.
 
What are you talking about. Cliff's NIL agent already had intel on what he could make elsewhere and RU was never in the ballpark with it's NIL pool. Richie's made that clear from the get go. And yes then it escalate above those original amounts since it was near $1m originally.
@Richie O is this true or something you can't clear up on the free board. Because I recall you saying RU had the NIL it needed (at one point) and never early on said the above.
 
and you know that how? So when Richie says it isn't an issue then you're saying he is wrong? If it wasn't in early March but then became so..ok, I get it (since the number $2mil was publicly mentioned recently).... but to say we were out from the get go is in direct contradiction to what our insiders stated. Sorry. I'll take their insights over yours.

Since you've had some difficulty understanding my points in the past let me clarify/summarize. I agree that there is likely NO WAY RU could or would match the more recent NIL offers. I completely disagree that it was that way from the get go.
I listen to all the podcasts and I don't recall them saying that. Could be wrong,
 
They are pros. Let’s just stop pretending they are not. The schools will be paying them soon and they will continue to make NIL. It should have happened 30-40 years ago.
Well you said it has always been this way. I don't recall Geof Billet, Eric Clark, or Rob Hodgson (who used to study his books on the bus rides) being such.

Now if you're talking the last 10-15 years or so I don't disagree. But my good friend who's a big BBall guy at Wisky would agree with me. And they haven't exactly sucked over the time frame so I guess it is one's POV here.

So good for them. One less thing I will be shelling my savings out for. And I hope all the folks like you in favor of turning this into a college level pro-sport don't come bitching when more of your seats go towards luxury/premium and your cost to park and sit go thru the roof. As I said. Enjoy it. To each his/her own and not for me.
 
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I listen to all the podcasts and I don't recall them saying that. Could be wrong,
So could it. Don't listen to them. I recall it posted numerous times and I cannot/will not post premium here but as You can see I already asked for a clarification if able to be shared here.

It is just wierd. Just like all the confusion of "can get NIL, Can't get NIL"...clear as mud.

But again to your point. Doesn't matter I suppose.
 
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So could it. Don't listen to them. I recall it posted numerous times and I cannot/will not post premium here but as You can see I already asked for a clarification if able to be shared here.

It is just wierd. Just like all the confusion of "can get NIL, Can't get NIL"...clear as mud.

But again to your point. Doesn't matter I suppose.
Richie has said that RU is middle of the pack in NIL. Pike doesn't have $500k to spend on a center. Maybe $250k-300k is my best guess.
 
Richie has said that RU is middle of the pack in NIL. Pike doesn't have $500k to spend on a center. Maybe $250k-300k is my best guess.
OK. I believe that. I actually went back and just found some quotes that said "Richie said we have more NIL to get Tier 1 players than people think"....... Cliff is a Tier 1 player." March 21st. I took that to mean we could afford Cliff.

(not posting cause I don't want to be THAT guy and I actually respect and trust said poster)

THAT was my frame of reference. Perhaps (and very likely) was true back then and the goal posts just moved to a whole new stadium lol. peace out.
 
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OK. I believe that. I actually went back and just found some quotes that said "Richie said we have more NIL to get Tier 1 players than people think"....... Cliff is a Tier 1 player." March 21st. I took that to mean we could afford Cliff.

(not posting cause I don't want to be THAT guy and I actually respect and trust said poster)

THAT was my frame of reference. Perhaps (and very likely) was true back then and the goal posts just moved to a whole new stadium lol. peace out.
I said Rutgers has more NIL than people think, but the center market also jumped a lot more than people though it would. An average center is going for around $500-$600k while the big names are getting $1mill+.
 
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Since 1990 24 years....there have been only 6 all 1st team B1G freshman
Russell 2015
Sullinger 2011
Hummel 2008
Gordon 2008
Oden 2007
Humphries 2004
0 between 1990 and 2003

Not sure this is the best argument as Cliff was not a first or second All BIG selection this past season. Also the award is also voted on, hence influenced by subjectivity.
 
Well you said it has always been this way. I don't recall Geof Billet, Eric Clark, or Rob Hodgson (who used to study his books on the bus rides) being such.

Now if you're talking the last 10-15 years or so I don't disagree. But my good friend who's a big BBall guy at Wisky would agree with me. And they haven't exactly sucked over the time frame so I guess it is one's POV here.

So good for them. One less thing I will be shelling my savings out for. And I hope all the folks like you in favor of turning this into a college level pro-sport don't come bitching when more of your seats go towards luxury/premium and your cost to park and sit go thru the roof. As I said. Enjoy it. To each his/her own and not for me.
Perhaps I'm reading too much into your post, but you seem to be implying that someone getting NIL money is not a student. May I suggest that's mistaken? No matter how much NIL they get, athletes must still do whatever they previously had to do academically, and Greg Schiano has always been very firm about pushing athletes to do their classroom work.

Even picking a school for monetary reasons isn't necessarily evil. As you may know, the Department of Education has royally screwed up the revision of the financial aid form. The consequence is that many high school seniors don't know how much financial aid they're getting and so they cannot intelligently choose among the schools that admitted them. If it's OK for them to base their choice on money, then why isn't it OK for an athlete in demand to do the same thing? Just a thought.
 
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Since 1990 24 years....there have been only 6 all 1st team B1G freshman
Russell 2015
Sullinger 2011
Hummel 2008
Gordon 2008
Oden 2007
Humphries 2004
0 between 1990 and 2003

That also speaks to how few top HS recruits have played in the B1G.

The Rivals150 goes back to 2003.... in those 21 years, there have only been 5 guys who were Top 5 HS players that played their freshman year in the Big Ten. That's 5 of 105, for just 4.7%... many of those 105 didn't go to college, but that's still low for a major conference.

By HS class:
2003 - #3 Shannon Brown, MSU. All Freshman team. (3 other NBA guys on that team)
2006 - #1 Greg Oden, OSU. 1st team B1G, DPOY, ROY, All Freshman B1G, All Conf Tourney, Conf Tourney MVP
2007 - #2 Eric Gordon, Indiana. 1st team B1G, ROY, All Freshman B1G
2008 - #1 Byron Mullens, OSU. 6th Man of the Year B1G, All Freshman B1G
2010 - #5 Jared Sullinger, OSU. 1st team B1G, ROY, All Freshman B1G, B1G Tourney MVP

3/5 were 1st Team B1G and ROY. 5/5 were All Freshman team. There hasn't been a single Top 5 guy in the B1G in the last 13 seasons.

We have 2 coming to the Banks next year.

There have only been 8 other guys that were ranked 6-10 in the Rivals150 that chose the B1G during that time. That's 13 of 210 Rivals Top10 guys in 21 years, for just 6.2%.

By HS class:
2003 - #9 Brian Butch, Wisconsin. Redshirted
2013 - #8 Noah Vonleh, Indiana. ROY, All Freshman B1G
2015 - #6 Diamond Stone, Maryland. All Freshman B1G
2016 - #10 Miles Bridges, MSU. ROY, All Freshman B1G
2017 - #6 Jaren Jackson, MSU. DPOY, ROY, All Freshman B1G
2018 - #6 Romeo Langford, Indiana. 2nd Team B1G
2021 - #9 Caleb Houstan, Michigan.
2023 - #9 Mackenzie Mgbako, Indiana. ROY, All Freshman B1G
 
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Perhaps I'm reading too much into your post, but you seem to be implying that someone getting NIL money is not a student. May I suggest that's mistaken? No matter how much NIL they get, athletes must still do whatever they previously had to do academically, and Greg Schiano has always been very firm about pushing athletes to do their classroom work.

Even picking a school for monetary reasons isn't necessarily evil. As you may know, the Department of Education has royally screwed up the revision of the financial aid form. The consequence is that many high school seniors don't know how much financial aid they're getting and so they cannot intelligently choose among the schools that admitted them. If it's OK for them to base their choice on money, then why isn't it OK for an athlete in demand to do the same thing? Just a thought.
Nah, all is all such a mess and different in so many scenarios. I am certainly sure there are coaches like Greg and Pike who demand students do the academic work. I'm sure on the other end there will be players who come in and do the work for 1 semester and then stop right after March of the Frosh year and leave. (coaches can't control that).

I don't know anything about what the DOE has done but nothing surprises me. THAT is really messed up . With regard to that point though students decisions are limited up to the full amount of the cost of education, right? Not some unlimited amount. In this one example (and not picking on Cliff because he was not able to get anything and he stayed and earned his degree and I respect him) he isn't choosing which school to go and get his graduate degree for $2 million. He is choosing where to go to play basketball for a few months before he then runs out of eligibility and leaves for the next check (which of course is his right to do).

I think the original NIL concept was just great. (I remember back years ago when Greg Anthony of UNLV was forced to stop selling t shirts and thought that was wrong back then)...but renting players in an uncontrolled free market process just seems wrong within the spirit of higher academic learning institutions.

Life is certainly not 100% open for people to do whatever they want. There have always been laws, guiderails, and rules to help create order out of chaos.

Thanks for your honest question. I appreciate the tone and manner. Apparently I am on an island here which seems to be the norm in life anymore for me lol. I'm done with this subject. Gladly and surprisingly GS has been able to harness in on the football side and there is still a team continuity to embrace and root for.
 
They are pros. Let’s just stop pretending they are not. The schools will be paying them soon and they will continue to make NIL. It should have happened 30-40 years ago.
Are colleges going to pay more for the best players out of high school?
Or will top high school recruits be wooed by money bags only?…. Which is not remotely NIL.
 
RUCHoppin interesting facts that could put a little cold water under my thought that it is rare for ANY freshman to be a Top 5 B1G player. We will see.

As for zappaa I think there is going to be a nice collection of players who are very good college players, but not NBA. I think the game could be fishing from that pool and start landing 2 to 3 year NIL contracts.
 
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It’s OK to get a little excited Greene.

Asking too much

Two highest recruits in the history of the program; two future lottery picks. One of them dominating all american games; the other is widely believed to have the highest ceiling in his class.

…. Yet Greene finds reasons to poo poo it.

Just goes to show - Some people will literally NEVER be happy.

That’s his problem
 
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Since 1990 24 years....there have been only 6 all 1st team B1G freshman
Russell 2015
Sullinger 2011
Hummel 2008
Gordon 2008
Oden 2007
Humphries 2004
0 between 1990 and 2003
Dang. Will be all the more impressive when to Rutgers guys get added to the list next year!
 
Out of curiosity, I looked at where the Rivals Top5 committed, by conference, since 2003.

32 - ACC (Duke 21, UNC 5) - 30.5%
23 - SEC (Kentucky 15) - 21.9%
14 - P12 (Arizona 5) - 13.3%
13 - B12 (Kansas 5) - 12.4%
9 - Did not commit to a college - 8.6%
6* - B1G - 5.7%*
4 - AAC - 3.8%
3 - BE - 2.9%
1 - WCC - 1.0%
1 - CUSA - 1.0%

*Josh Smith initially committed to Indiana but chose instead to enter the NBA draft out of HS in 2004. Not sure how many others listed with committed schools chose not to attend college.

In the same 21 years, # of NCs by conference:
7 - BE - 33.3%
6 - ACC - 28.6%
3 - SEC - 14.3%
3 - B12 - 14.3%
1 - AAC - 4.8%
1 - n/a (Covid year)

BE certainly got more titles with far fewer Top5 guys, while the P12 got none with the 3rd highest # of Top5 guys.

If you expand to teams in the Final Four since 2004 (80 possible), it's a bit more interesting:
16 - ACC - 20.0%
13 - BE - 16.3%
13 - B1G - 16.3%
11 - SEC - 13.8%
9 - B12 - 11.3%
5 - P12 - 6.3%
3 - CUSA - 3.8%
(a collection of conferences with 1-2 appearances)

B1G has been good at getting to the Final Four, but haven't gotten over the hump to a NC.
 
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Side note, Mawot Mag commented on the commitment post by Cliff and Cliff wrote back you next. The only new adds on his IG follow list were from Southern Miss so that might be a possibility for Mag.
 
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Are colleges going to pay more for the best players out of high school?
Or will top high school recruits be wooed by money bags only?…. Which is not remotely NIL.
Yeah, I wish we could stop calling it "payment for name and likeness."
 
In reality with the exception of last year the past 5 years have been extremely exciting. Winning is exciting, but winning with core players you have been rooting for a few years is even more exciting.

There is a reason why Cliff has a $1.4M price tag.

D'Angelo Russell is the last B1G freshman to be on the 1st team all B1G team. That was a long time ago.
The days of winning with players who've been together for a few years are more or less over.
 
The days of winning with players who've been together for a few years are more or less over.
.........until programs figure it out. They will.

4 year contracts or forgiveable loans.

They are coming. This is why someone needs to step in and regulate this thing before players get screwed.
 
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Have they stopped calling it amateur athletics yet?!?😆😆

I mean good for some kid who will likely never see the light of day in an nba roster…seriously, good for him, but $1.4M is absurd.

Stop making them go to class (unless they actually wish for an education) and just call them employees!
 
Cliff will be laying bricks in Alabama just like he did here last year unless he gets a selfless guy like Mulcahy to make him look good. He's terrific at flushing the toilet...but on O...that's really it.
 
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