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OT: 3/3-4 Storm Mostly Wet, Except N of 78 (and esp N of 80)...and the Coming Colder (and snowy?) Pattern

RU848789

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Would be nice to keep this thread at least somewhat on topic - there will be plenty of time to make fun of it later if it doesn't pan out.

Update on Fri/Sat (3/3-4) Winter Storm

Debated a new thread for this, but we have quite a few posters N of 78 who might be interested in this event, so why not. Not much change in the forecast really. Looks like about all rain south of 78 (maybe 1/2" of snow/sleet down to a New Hope to Perth Amboy line, at best), with a good 1" or more of heavy rain being likely from late afternoon Friday through about sunrise on Saturday. The rain could cause some localized urban flooding, but is not expected to cause stream/river flooding. We'll also likely see 35-45 mph wind gusts (might see advisories) and some minor coastal flooding is possible, especially Saturday morning, so even though this doesn't look that wintry for many, it could be impactful.

Could be up to 1" of snow/sleet along 78 before the changeover to heavy rain and maybe 1-3" of snow/sleet along /N of 80 (and W of 287) before a later changeover to rain (late Fri/early Sat), as the low level cold air will hold on longest there, which could lead to 0.1-0.25" of freezing rain for far NW NJ (Sussex/NW Passaic), the Poconos (Carbon/Monroe), and Orange/Putnam in the Hudson Valley. Note that these areas could end up with several inches of sleet and snow if a couple of the models are correct. North of there and especially for the ski resorts in the Catskills, Adirondacks and most of New England, we should see heavy snow with 8-12" likely (and even up to 18" in spots), as per the 2nd map below.

cOIjvwY.png


image.png.645779f2a118920d64a2132042bac2a0.png



The Coming Pattern Change

There is almost certainly a pattern change coming after most of this winter featured a La Nina pattern that was very warm and nearly snowless for most of the eastern US, resulting in record warm temps for many locations for both January and February. The La Nina regime is essentially over, the MJO (Madden Julian Oscillation) is forecast to move into region 8 in about a week and to stay there for a couple of weeks, and this is usually accompanied by colder than normal and stormy conditions in March in the eastern US with a neutral ENSO state (no La Nina).

These drivers are being reflected in medium term global models showing the months long western US trough/eastern US ridge pattern (which has caused so much snow/wintry weather out west and our warm/wet winter here) breaking down, with a ridge being established out west and up into Alaska, which should drive a troughing regime into the eastern US by late next week (by about 3/8), plus the forecast calls for Atlantic and Arctic "blocking" to develop, which should suppress the southeast ridge and funnel colder weather into the eastern US and which, in conjunction with the eastern US trough, often leads to coastal storms for the east coast - which are more likely to be wintry in this setup than in the pattern we've had.

The last time we had what looked to be a cold and possibly snowy pattern advertised was mid/late December, where we certainly got a very cold outbreak, but missed out on snow and then the pattern broke down unexpectedly, likely due to the strong La Nina conditions (this is all well explained in the attached video by DT/WxRisk); can't seem to find that thread, although it's posted elsewhere. So, while moving to a colder pattern is almost a certainty, it's far harder to predict snowstorms 7+ days into the future, but they are more likely than average in the coming pattern, especially after about 3/9.

The Climate Prediction Center has our area seeing colder than normal weather (with normal precip) from 3/7-3/11 and their extended outlook, shown below, is for colder and wetter (which means possibly snowier) than normal conditions from 3/11-3/25. I will say this: I don't think I've ever seen a group of fairly grizzled meteorologists seem this excited for a pattern in years - probably not since March 2018, when we got ~25" of snow in March in NB/NYC - that was one of the 7 of 11 patterns I've posted about over the last 5+ years to come to fruition for both cold and snow. (10 of 11 have been correct just for temps).

Lastly, in case anyone doubts how warm Jan/Feb were, look at the table below (from Don Sutherland on the weather boards) showing how many stations in the NE US had record warm Jan/Feb - and many would've had record warm meteorological winters (D/J/F) if not for the several days of brutal cold around Christmas.



p4MGNNl.png


FqIzZqUWwAAW1gu
 
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Would be nice to keep this thread at least somewhat on topic - there will be plenty of time to make fun of it later if it doesn't pan out.

Update on Fri/Sat (3/3-4) Winter Storm

Debated a new thread for this, but we have quite a few posters N of 78 who might be interested in this event, so why not. Not much change in the forecast really. Looks like about all rain south of 78 (maybe 1/2" of snow/sleet down to a New Hope to Perth Amboy line, at best), with a good 1" or more of heavy rain being likely from late afternoon Friday through about sunrise on Saturday. The rain could cause some localized urban flooding, but is not expected to cause stream/river flooding. We'll also likely see 35-45 mph wind gusts (might see advisories) and some minor coastal flooding is possible, especially Saturday morning, so even though this doesn't look that wintry for many, it could be impactful.

Could be up to 1" of snow/sleet along 78 before the changeover to heavy rain and maybe 1-3" of snow/sleet along /N of 80 (and W of 287) before a later changeover to rain (late Fri/early Sat), as the low level cold air will hold on longest there, which could lead to 0.1-0.25" of freezing rain for far NW NJ (Sussex/NW Passaic), the Poconos (Carbon/Monroe), and Orange/Putnam in the Hudson Valley. Note that these areas could end up with several inches of sleet and snow if a couple of the models are correct. North of there and especially for the ski resorts in the Catskills, Adirondacks and most of New England, we should see heavy snow with 8-12" likely (and even up to 18" in spots), as per the 2nd map below.

cOIjvwY.png


image.png.645779f2a118920d64a2132042bac2a0.png



The Coming Pattern Change

There is almost certainly a pattern change coming after most of this winter featured a La Nina pattern that was very warm and nearly snowless for most of the eastern US, resulting in record warm temps for many locations for both January and February. The La Nina regime is essentially over, the MJO (Madden Julian Oscillation) is forecast to move into region 8 in about a week and to stay there for a couple of weeks, and this is usually accompanied by colder than normal and stormy conditions in March in the eastern US with a neutral ENSO state (no La Nina).

These drivers are being reflected in medium term global models showing the months long western US trough/eastern US ridge pattern (which has caused so much snow/wintry weather out west and our warm/wet winter here) breaking down, with a ridge being established out west and up into Alaska, which should drive a troughing regime into the eastern US by late next week (by about 3/8), plus the forecast calls for Atlantic and Arctic "blocking" to develop, which should suppress the southeast ridge and funnel colder weather into the eastern US and which, in conjunction with the eastern US trough, often leads to coastal storms for the east coast - which are more likely to be wintry in this setup than in the pattern we've had.

The last time we had what looked to be a cold and possibly snowy pattern advertised was mid/late December, where we certainly got a very cold outbreak, but missed out on snow and then the pattern broke down unexpectedly, likely due to the strong La Nina conditions (this is all well explained in the attached video by DT/WxRisk); can't seem to find that thread, although it's posted elsewhere. So, while moving to a colder pattern is almost a certainty, it's far harder to predict snowstorms 7+ days into the future, but they are more likely than average in the coming pattern, especially after about 3/9.

The Climate Prediction Center has our area seeing colder than normal weather (with normal precip) from 3/7-3/11 and their extended outlook, shown below, is for colder and wetter (which means possibly snowier) than normal conditions from 3/11-3/25. I will say this: I don't think I've ever seen a group of fairly grizzled meteorologists seem this excited for a pattern in years - probably not since March 2018, when we got ~25" of snow in March in NB/NYC - that was one of the 7 of 11 patterns I've posted about over the last 5+ years to come to fruition for both cold and snow. (10 of 11 have been correct just for temps).

Lastly, in case anyone doubts how warm Jan/Feb were, look at the table below (from Don Sutherland on the weather boards) showing how many stations in the NE US had record warm Jan/Feb - and many would've had record warm meteorological winters (D/J/F) if not for the several days of brutal cold around Christmas.



p4MGNNl.png


FqIzZqUWwAAW1gu
8" here in Sedona at 4:30 a.m. and still snowing hard. Eat your heart out! Hot tub time soon.

As of 9:30 p.m. downtown Flagstaff had 22.4 inches







It is snowing in Scottsdale!!!






@RU4Real , only 187" of snow at the north rim of the Grand Canyon this year.

 
It doesn’t suprise me of a potentially cold, stormy March for NJ. It seems to me that when we have a mild/moderate Jan, Feb. We get a very wintery March - early April. I’ve been telling my family expect a bad March. For me, this kind of sucks. I’m looking forward to spring, warm weather, sunshine, greenery , baseball etc.
 
I have one unused day on my epic day pass and am hoping there will be a decent day in March to head up to Jack Frost before the season ends.
 
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It doesn’t suprise me of a potentially cold, stormy March for NJ. It seems to me that when we have a mild/moderate Jan, Feb. We get a very wintery March - early April. I’ve been telling my family expect a bad March. For me, this kind of sucks. I’m looking forward to spring, warm weather, sunshine, greenery , baseball etc.
I wouldn't worry too much yet. These things need to thread the needle a bit as it gets later in the season. And as for Numbers comments about the grizzled mets being excited, well, of course they're excited as they have been experiencing winter blue balls all season.
 
It looks like through the 15th we aren't going to be below average but just about average, mid 40s
 
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I have one unused day on my epic day pass and am hoping there will be a decent day in March to head up to Jack Frost before the season ends.
Just go to Hunter instead. They have plenty of snow and great conditions. Hell I can get to Mount Snow in 3 hours from Bergen County.
 
8" here in Sedona at 4:30 a.m. and still snowing hard. Eat your heart out! Hot tub time soon.

As of 9:30 p.m. downtown Flagstaff had 22.4 inches







It is snowing in Scottsdale!!!






@RU4Real , only 187" of snow at the north rim of the Grand Canyon this year.

Sweet! Was curious so I looked up snowfall in Phoenix and the NWS page said the most ever there was 1" a couple of times, downtown. I'm sure the northern foothills of Phoenix and Scottsdale have had at least several inches many times (reports of Scottsdale getting 8" once) - elevation is everything when it comes to snow out west.

https://www.weather.gov/psr/Phoenix_snowfall

I remember during our trip to UT/AZ in April 2008 that there was still some snow in spots along the south rim of the Grand Canyon, while the roads into the much higher north rim were still closed as there were several feet of snow there. My son and I did the helicopter ride over the whole area and it was spectacular. We also got to see some snow stiil leftover in parts of Bryce Canyon in UT and it was gorgeous among all those beautiful orange/red rock formations.
 
I have one unused day on my epic day pass and am hoping there will be a decent day in March to head up to Jack Frost before the season ends.
No guarantees, but likely something better than what JF is going to see Fri/Sat, i.e., a few inches of snow, then sleet, then freezing rain and maybe rain.
 
It doesn’t suprise me of a potentially cold, stormy March for NJ. It seems to me that when we have a mild/moderate Jan, Feb. We get a very wintery March - early April. I’ve been telling my family expect a bad March. For me, this kind of sucks. I’m looking forward to spring, warm weather, sunshine, greenery , baseball etc.
Well we have had 3 months of "March" without the snow this winter, lol. I've been playing disc golf 4-5 days a week for the past 2 years (love playing and it's good exercise and I get to travel all over the area) and I recall last winter (which was warm, but not this warm) there were many days that were too cold to be enjoyable (the hands just get too cold to throw well), whereas this winter there have only been a few days like that. And the "good" thing about most March snows is they don't stick around that long with the usual warmer days after snowfalls and the high sun angle.
 
Sweet! Was curious so I looked up snowfall in Phoenix and the NWS page said the most ever there was 1" a couple of times, downtown. I'm sure the northern foothills of Phoenix and Scottsdale have had at least several inches many times (reports of Scottsdale getting 8" once) - elevation is everything when it comes to snow out west.

https://www.weather.gov/psr/Phoenix_snowfall

I remember during our trip to UT/AZ in April 2008 that there was still some snow in spots along the south rim of the Grand Canyon, while the roads into the much higher north rim were still closed as there were several feet of snow there. My son and I did the helicopter ride over the whole area and it was spectacular. We also got to see some snow stiil leftover in parts of Bryce Canyon in UT and it was gorgeous among all those beautiful orange/red rock formations.
Grouchypants above aside, a very interesting winter for there to be 15-20" in the high desert of Arizona, a near record in Flagstaff, and south of the Driscoll bridge, no measurable (or next to none) snow? Global warming, global scharming!-- (that's a joke).

 
Grouchypants above aside, a very interesting winter for there to be 15-20" in the high desert of Arizona, a near record in Flagstaff, and south of the Driscoll bridge, no measurable (or next to none) snow? Global warming, global scharming!-- (that's a joke).

All this info would be well and good if I lived in Arizona. Is Sedona north of Route 78? Asking for a friend. Sincerely, Sir Grouchy Pants of Central NJ. 😄
 
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FIFYX2

FIFY X2
See, now you are straying way too far from the original post. Such FIFY replies only work if you can change one or two words and keep the same structure.

This is covered in my upcoming book - Trolling 101
:)
 
Grouchypants above aside, a very interesting winter for there to be 15-20" in the high desert of Arizona, a near record in Flagstaff, and south of the Driscoll bridge, no measurable (or next to none) snow? Global warming, global scharming!-- (that's a joke).

Grouchypants yourself...is this a discussion of the upcoming storm predicted to affect northern NJ, or a general winter weather thread? And this, after being reminded by the OP to keep on topic ;)

And neither this, nor the winter events in the AZ mountains will impact my week, so I'm now going to sit down & stfu. You may hold your applause.
 
Pattern likely isn't changing this winter, perhaps not even until the end of April now.

Snow chances return next year with a weak el nino.
 
Looks like a lot of rain for most which is good heading into the spring and summer. I’m thinking the insane snows out West will help with that too.
 
Would be nice to keep this thread at least somewhat on topic - there will be plenty of time to make fun of it later if it doesn't pan out.

Update on Fri/Sat (3/3-4) Winter Storm

Debated a new thread for this, but we have quite a few posters N of 78 who might be interested in this event, so why not. Not much change in the forecast really. Looks like about all rain south of 78 (maybe 1/2" of snow/sleet down to a New Hope to Perth Amboy line, at best), with a good 1" or more of heavy rain being likely from late afternoon Friday through about sunrise on Saturday. The rain could cause some localized urban flooding, but is not expected to cause stream/river flooding. We'll also likely see 35-45 mph wind gusts (might see advisories) and some minor coastal flooding is possible, especially Saturday morning, so even though this doesn't look that wintry for many, it could be impactful.

Could be up to 1" of snow/sleet along 78 before the changeover to heavy rain and maybe 1-3" of snow/sleet along /N of 80 (and W of 287) before a later changeover to rain (late Fri/early Sat), as the low level cold air will hold on longest there, which could lead to 0.1-0.25" of freezing rain for far NW NJ (Sussex/NW Passaic), the Poconos (Carbon/Monroe), and Orange/Putnam in the Hudson Valley. Note that these areas could end up with several inches of sleet and snow if a couple of the models are correct. North of there and especially for the ski resorts in the Catskills, Adirondacks and most of New England, we should see heavy snow with 8-12" likely (and even up to 18" in spots), as per the 2nd map below.

cOIjvwY.png


image.png.645779f2a118920d64a2132042bac2a0.png



The Coming Pattern Change

There is almost certainly a pattern change coming after most of this winter featured a La Nina pattern that was very warm and nearly snowless for most of the eastern US, resulting in record warm temps for many locations for both January and February. The La Nina regime is essentially over, the MJO (Madden Julian Oscillation) is forecast to move into region 8 in about a week and to stay there for a couple of weeks, and this is usually accompanied by colder than normal and stormy conditions in March in the eastern US with a neutral ENSO state (no La Nina).

These drivers are being reflected in medium term global models showing the months long western US trough/eastern US ridge pattern (which has caused so much snow/wintry weather out west and our warm/wet winter here) breaking down, with a ridge being established out west and up into Alaska, which should drive a troughing regime into the eastern US by late next week (by about 3/8), plus the forecast calls for Atlantic and Arctic "blocking" to develop, which should suppress the southeast ridge and funnel colder weather into the eastern US and which, in conjunction with the eastern US trough, often leads to coastal storms for the east coast - which are more likely to be wintry in this setup than in the pattern we've had.

The last time we had what looked to be a cold and possibly snowy pattern advertised was mid/late December, where we certainly got a very cold outbreak, but missed out on snow and then the pattern broke down unexpectedly, likely due to the strong La Nina conditions (this is all well explained in the attached video by DT/WxRisk); can't seem to find that thread, although it's posted elsewhere. So, while moving to a colder pattern is almost a certainty, it's far harder to predict snowstorms 7+ days into the future, but they are more likely than average in the coming pattern, especially after about 3/9.

The Climate Prediction Center has our area seeing colder than normal weather (with normal precip) from 3/7-3/11 and their extended outlook, shown below, is for colder and wetter (which means possibly snowier) than normal conditions from 3/11-3/25. I will say this: I don't think I've ever seen a group of fairly grizzled meteorologists seem this excited for a pattern in years - probably not since March 2018, when we got ~25" of snow in March in NB/NYC - that was one of the 7 of 11 patterns I've posted about over the last 5+ years to come to fruition for both cold and snow. (10 of 11 have been correct just for temps).

Lastly, in case anyone doubts how warm Jan/Feb were, look at the table below (from Don Sutherland on the weather boards) showing how many stations in the NE US had record warm Jan/Feb - and many would've had record warm meteorological winters (D/J/F) if not for the several days of brutal cold around Christmas.



p4MGNNl.png


FqIzZqUWwAAW1gu

Not much change in the Fri/Sat forecast at all, so no need to repeat everything said above. Basically 1-1.5" of rain for everyone south of 78 and even mostly rain between 78 and 80 after maybe an inch of snow/sleet. The only areas that will have appreciable snow/sleet (1-2") and maybe some freezing rain is N and W of the 80/287 intersection in NJ (and N of 209 in PA) and N of Rockland/Westchester in the Hudson Valley. Could be a quick dusting/coating down to about a Doylestown to Sayreville line, but that is a maybe and even if it occurs it will be quickly washed away.

Far NWNJ (Sussex/NW Passaic), the Poconos and mid-Hudson Valley could see up to 3" of snow/sleet (and if 1-2" of that is sleet, as expected, that's the equivalent of 3-6" of snow, so that's like 4-7" of total snow in total mass, which is significant) and up to 1/4" of freezing rain. Could be some urban flooding and minor to locally moderate coastal flooding is likely (especially for Raritan Bay) and winds could gust over 45 mph at the coast.

3y8Be3Z.png



And after that horrific, inexcusable, disgusting meltdown tonight, the only thing that will salve that for me is a monster blizzard in mid-March. The pattern is looking even better for cold and possible snow from about 3/9 onwards, as the GFS ensembles now show a very similar pattern as the Euro and CMC ensembles (which is what last night's post was based on - the GFS was not fully on board last night - ensembles are the way to go beyond 7-8 days) with lots of cold air, blocking, and potential storm systems that could bring snow, but as we all know, getting snow here is usually a thread-the-needle situation, so we'll just need to wait and see. Models are already showing potential major winter storms from Day 8 onward, but those are not forecasts yet - just potential.
 
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Pattern likely isn't changing this winter, perhaps not even until the end of April now.

Snow chances return next year with a weak el nino.
That's completely incorrect. Pattern change is almost a lock, although snow is never a lock this far out, but the pattern will be much more likely than the pattern we've been in to deliver snow.
 
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Just curious why you guys don't thread-ban trolls from these threads like you used to do for several years, especially since it's obvious many posters get annoyed at the trolling (I've almost stopped responding to it as it's just childish stuff) and I would think, from a business perspective the site wouldn't want a bunch of annoyed posters (especially current and maybe future premium members). Or maybe just moderate the threads.
 
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And you troll every thread he puts out.

Tell everyone the truth why you attack him. Be honest.
Not complicated. He is so troll'able. He is super sensitive and has fixations that are easy to make fun of. I did the same with AlbanyKnight for years, but he faded away.
 
Not complicated. He is so troll'able. He is super sensitive and has fixations that are easy to make fun of. I did the same with AlbanyKnight for years, but he faded away.
So you think it's your destiny to chase paying members off the boards by trolling? Sounds like the antithesis of what those who run the site are trying to accomplish.
 
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That's completely incorrect. Pattern change is almost a lock, although snow is never a lock this far out, but the pattern will be much more likely than the pattern we've been in to deliver snow.
To get a meaningful change in the pattern in the southeast and mid-atlantic, the subtropical ridge needs to be broken down. Models have been showing we’re 2 weeks away from that for about 2 months now. Yes eventually it will change but the thing is about as stubborn as can be and a snow-killer for those of us who enjoy winter weather.
 
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