OT - Official Star Wars E8/The Last Jedi Thread
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I thought the same thing, till my 10 yr. old nephew set me straight. He said the bombs are in their own compartment which is not metal, once released(when she pushes button) they are magnetized which makes them seem to fall like gravity but are actually being pulled toward the metal dreadnought do to them being magnetized. Little bastard, magnets do work in space. He agreed, the flying nun(Leia) act was stupid.
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Would need to see the scene again, but if they were propelled out of the bomb doors, they'd also continue along a straight line until they impacted something - no magnets or gravity needed.
Well I suppose it is technically possible for it all to take place in one day because since it is on another planet, their days could be much longer than ours.
Interesting theory, but if they were magnetized or propelled, why would they need to hover right above the ship? Couldn't they send the bombs their way without getting so close?
Maybe the magnetic pull wasn't that strong and they needed to be within a certain range and directly over what they wanted to hit? Maybe it's the only way to control them and a stronger magnet they would fly all over and potentially hit a rebel ship. Just spit balling here. It wasn't my theory, maybe I'll ask little Einstein(my nephew) for his proof.
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The whole bomber scene was stupid - the pilots of the tie fighters must be the worst in the universe given that those bombers weren't destroyed in the first 10 seconds.
By the way, they always seem to come up with some massive new ship which ends up getting destroyed - Death Star, Super Star Destroyer, now the Dreadnought. I'm surprised the Empire, er, First Order, um, Whatever, even has any functional ships.
Come on DJ. Marksmanship wasn't a highly valued skill with the Empire why would it be with the First Order? It's not even on the job application.
It was just a bad story. The plot is a mess. There are too many characters. None of them are exciting besides maybe Poe and Kylo. The jokes fall flat. Visually, it looks great. I think what most people dislike is it's just not really consistent with any of the older movies in terms of things like how characters act or how the "force" works etc. It feels like the directors and writers weren't very familiar with the Star Wars universe and they just made up new shit.
The way characters act make no sense. Snoke is a super powerful darkside user, can link people's minds from across the galaxy, can throw Kylo and Rey around like rag dolls, can read their minds, yet he can't sense that Kylo is moving the lightsaber right next to him? How is he so easily defeated? What was the point of his character?
How is Rey able to contend with Kylo Ren who has the Skywalker bloodline and was trained by both Luke and Snoke for many years? What training has she had? It makes no sense. It's not consistent with anything in any of the past movies. I thought maybe they would explain that in this movie, but nope.
Luke was going to kill Ben in his sleep? How is that in anyway consistent with Luke's character in the older movies? Yoda appears for fan service.
Since when can you use "the force" to project yourself across the galaxy, link people's minds, fly unconsciously in space like Mary Poppins, stop blaster bolts in mid air? Why was Luke able to fight Kylo Ren with his light saber while he was projecting himself but when Kylo goes to stab him it goes right through him. It makes no sense. And then he disappears?
I'm just baffled how any critic can find this a good movie. Didn't Ebert give it 4 stars? It felt more like a Transformer movie than a Star Wars movie.
The way characters act make no sense. Snoke is a super powerful darkside user, can link people's minds from across the galaxy, can throw Kylo and Rey around like rag dolls, can read their minds, yet he can't sense that Kylo is moving the lightsaber right next to him? How is he so easily defeated? What was the point of his character?
How is Rey able to contend with Kylo Ren who has the Skywalker bloodline and was trained by both Luke and Snoke for many years? What training has she had? It makes no sense. It's not consistent with anything in any of the past movies. I thought maybe they would explain that in this movie, but nope.
Luke was going to kill Ben in his sleep? How is that in anyway consistent with Luke's character in the older movies? Yoda appears for fan service.
Since when can you use "the force" to project yourself across the galaxy, link people's minds, fly unconsciously in space like Mary Poppins, stop blaster bolts in mid air? Why was Luke able to fight Kylo Ren with his light saber while he was projecting himself but when Kylo goes to stab him it goes right through him. It makes no sense. And then he disappears?
I'm just baffled how any critic can find this a good movie. Didn't Ebert give it 4 stars? It felt more like a Transformer movie than a Star Wars movie.
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Maybe they need to get close enough so that they couldn't be shot at and detonated in the air? If a giant mass of bombs were traveling through space, one shot could create a chain reaction and blow them all up.
Just spitballing - I didn't have an issue with the scene, and any number of plausible explanations.
If someone really wants to get bent out of shape about physics, take a look at all the distances and relativistic speeds they're traveling at throughout all the Star Wars movies.
Didn't really have an issue with any of that. The Emperor was killed when Vader just picked him up and threw him down a hole - and you're taking an issue about the way Kylo tricked Snoke?
As for the final Luke/Kylo fight, if you notice, they never actually touch during that entire duel. Luke just dodges Kylo's blows.
You're right, I didn't realize they never touch. But what the hell next are they going to come up with as far as things you can do with the force? They're just making up super powers as they go along.
There are just so many things wrong with the Last Jedi. Since when has "fuel" ever been an issue in Star Wars? Why did Laura Durham's character have to die? There is no such thing as Auto Pilot in the Star Wars universe? Why didn't they just ram an empty transport ship at light speed into the dreadnaught? Why did she even keep her plan from Poe in the first place? The plot is like swiss cheese. What exactly was the purpose of the Casino Planet?
We know nothing about Snoke. We have no reason to hate him. He seemed like he could have been a really good villain and then he just died. Why was he even a character? Why not just have Kylo be the Supreme Leader in the first place? Who is even the antagonist in this movie? The incompetent Admiral Hux? The moody, unpredictable, conflicted Kylo Ren? The dead Captain Phasma?
I definitely agree about Snoke. That character has so much potential, but died way too easy and was ultimately pointless.
The bombers had to be positioned above their targets. I'm pretty certain the director had gravity in mind with the bombing scene. Oh and magnets? Please. So, the bombers weren't made of metal? Oh, I get it. The dreadnought was made of Iron while the bombers were made of Aluminum. Makes perfect sense.
But see it wasn't just the bomb scene. Someone also forgot to tell the director breathing isn't the only problem when you get hurled into space. That Leah Poppins scene was so comical people in the theater actually started laughing.
Luke projecting himself to fight Kylo was dumb.
Yoda ghost was dumb.
The idea of "hey let's escape in tiny ships and maybe they won't notice us" was uber dumb. I mean seriously, they won't notice? Their scanners could probably detect a cockroach on the ship but they won't notice people leaving on tiny vessels. So stupid.
Escaping from the back of the cave was dumb. They couldn't lose them with hyper space but they lost them by escaping from the back of the cave? OMG, so dumb.
The idea of "we can't get close enough, so we'll just follow from a distance" was sooooo dumb. I mean seriously, why not send a couple of star destroyers ahead and cut them off? Or heck, go close and go mano o mano with your DREADNOUGHT. OR just send lots and lots of Tie fighters. Jeezus H Christ. Anything would have been better than - let's follow till they run out of fuel. FUEL??? By the way, their spaceships run on fuel? WTF???
WORSE Star Wars movie ever made. Best part of the movie was the Avengers trailer ..... "who the hell are you guys?" ...... THAT was good.
But see it wasn't just the bomb scene. Someone also forgot to tell the director breathing isn't the only problem when you get hurled into space. That Leah Poppins scene was so comical people in the theater actually started laughing.
Luke projecting himself to fight Kylo was dumb.
Yoda ghost was dumb.
The idea of "hey let's escape in tiny ships and maybe they won't notice us" was uber dumb. I mean seriously, they won't notice? Their scanners could probably detect a cockroach on the ship but they won't notice people leaving on tiny vessels. So stupid.
Escaping from the back of the cave was dumb. They couldn't lose them with hyper space but they lost them by escaping from the back of the cave? OMG, so dumb.
The idea of "we can't get close enough, so we'll just follow from a distance" was sooooo dumb. I mean seriously, why not send a couple of star destroyers ahead and cut them off? Or heck, go close and go mano o mano with your DREADNOUGHT. OR just send lots and lots of Tie fighters. Jeezus H Christ. Anything would have been better than - let's follow till they run out of fuel. FUEL??? By the way, their spaceships run on fuel? WTF???
WORSE Star Wars movie ever made. Best part of the movie was the Avengers trailer ..... "who the hell are you guys?" ...... THAT was good.
Umm. First time reading any theories on Star Wars. But isn't it clear that Rey is Luke's daughter?
The opening dialogue joke was hilarious.
First off, everybody is allowed their own opinions. I mean, I appreciate you responding to my request.
Worst Star Wars movie ever made? Have you not seen the prequels?
That being said, it just feels like you're being overly picky about stuff from a sci-fi movie where, again, Chewbacca can pilot the Millennium Falcon, but it's out of the question that there could be some sort of powerful cloaking device on the transport shuttles. Of course the First Order could just send a thousand ships at them if they wanted, but that would just end the series. It sounds like if you were the writer, the movie would be five minutes long. What's the point of that?
Force ghosts? There are dozens and dozens of force ghosts. It's not a new thing. The only new thing is Yoda's interaction with the world, which I'm admittedly still on the fence about.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fuel ... yes, things run on fuel. It's not a new concept.
... Astral projection has been used in the Star Wars universe before.
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-last-jedi-leia-force-powers-explained/ ... Leia has always had a connection to the Force. She was just untrained. Star Wars has had Jedi pull crazy stunts like this before. "The Clone Wars included a sequence where Anakin and Kit Fisto formed a Force orb around Padme to save her from drowning, while Kanan used the Force to project himself through space in Rebels. Granted, those examples are trained Jedi, but the films haven’t been shy of depicting extraordinary feats from people who have minimal training (Luke destroying the Death Star)."
I could go on, but I see the same complaints about Walking Dead every week. "This series is stupid because the grass never seems to grow and somehow there's still fuel left in some cars. Also, where do they get all these bullets?" Yet the concept of zombies itself is fine with them. At some point you have to suspend some belief and stop being so picky (about a made up world).
But again, I asked people to respond and you did, so I appreciate the discussion.
First off, everybody is allowed their own opinions. I mean, I appreciate you responding to my request.
Worst Star Wars movie ever made? Have you not seen the prequels?
That being said, it just feels like you're being overly picky about stuff from a sci-fi movie where, again, Chewbacca can pilot the Millennium Falcon, but it's out of the question that there could be some sort of powerful cloaking device on the transport shuttles. Of course the First Order could just send a thousand ships at them if they wanted, but that would just end the series. It sounds like if you were the writer, the movie would be five minutes long. What's the point of that?
Force ghosts? There are dozens and dozens of force ghosts. It's not a new thing. The only new thing is Yoda's interaction with the world, which I'm admittedly still on the fence about.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fuel ... yes, things run on fuel. It's not a new concept.
... Astral projection has been used in the Star Wars universe before.
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-last-jedi-leia-force-powers-explained/ ... Leia has always had a connection to the Force. She was just untrained. Star Wars has had Jedi pull crazy stunts like this before. "The Clone Wars included a sequence where Anakin and Kit Fisto formed a Force orb around Padme to save her from drowning, while Kanan used the Force to project himself through space in Rebels. Granted, those examples are trained Jedi, but the films haven’t been shy of depicting extraordinary feats from people who have minimal training (Luke destroying the Death Star)."
I could go on, but I see the same complaints about Walking Dead every week. "This series is stupid because the grass never seems to grow and somehow there's still fuel left in some cars. Also, where do they get all these bullets?" Yet the concept of zombies itself is fine with them. At some point you have to suspend some belief and stop being so picky (about a made up world).
But again, I asked people to respond and you did, so I appreciate the discussion.
Yea I was going to tell my 10 yr. old nephew that. Besides he rebutted that by saying the interior bomb bay was not made of metal. I then asked about direction, he said you can direct magnetic fields. I don't know, the kid had a class on magnets apparently. He did agree the Leia flying nun act was comical. I have a 6 yr. old niece you want to come over and tell her Santa Clause doesn't exist? I'm sure she'll give you a perfectly plausible explanation on why your full of sh*t.
P.S.
I agree with you it had a lot of plot holes and whenever they couldn't make something fit they just changed the rules of the Star Wars universe to make it work. Rogue One stayed within those lines which is why so many loved it.
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I see your "just changed the rules" and raise you a "most of the stuff is in the SW universe, just not heavily talked about". There is a minimal amount of stuff that was truly new to the SW universe. Just people who haven't seen it in a movie before.
I just think they took it too far with little explanation how they could preform such astounding feats. Flying nun scene was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Why does Luke even need a spaceship. He's a Jedi, Leia isn't. Just strap a rocket to his ass and have him fly around. The projection scene at the end? Why not take the Ben Kenobi way out and be a man about it. That was a pretty hollow way to end one of your main characters.
I was very disappointed in how they handled Snoke an entire episode devoted to keeping him a mysterious figure. Then the next one, here he is in the flesh, boom he's dead. Gee who was that guy again? Don't know, they told me nothing about him. If you didn't want to continue the series don't direct it.
The whole Casino planet with arms dealers? So the First Order has to buy their weapons? These guys pretty much rule the universe but they can't force people to build their weapons for them. They have to go into negotiations for them? Do the Storm Troopers have a labor union as well? What were they building in that hanger and why if they just buy their weapons. If I was a rebel ground force solider I'd put in a grievance, our weapons suck.
The escape was stupid. What exactly was the plan with those speeders? Make a lot of red dust? O I know a teaching moment. The whole movie was one big teaching moment. What's the rebel alliance down to maybe 30 people. That's not an alliance that's more like a help group with one ship.
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If "plot holes" is a reason not to like Star Wars, then you shouldn't really like any of them. The whole thing is built on a series of plot holes - from the very first film.
As for the Force... it's set up as being this mystical energy field that Jedi can manipulate. Stands to reason that what we've seen on screen is only the tip of a very large iceberg.
Fuel already was introduced indirectly as an issue in ESB when Han/Leia had to find somewhere close to get the hyperdrive fixed, which is why they went to Lando: "it's pretty far, but I think we can make it"
Why did Holdo keep her plan from Poe? He was just demoted for not following orders to fall back and fight another day, and instead launching a direct assault which cost a ton of lives and resources. Why would an Admiral feel the need to tell him anything?
We know nothing about Snoke? We knew nothing about the Emperor, either during ESB and RotJ. Why was he even a character? Why not have Vader be the Emperor in the first place? The Snoke/Kylo dynamic was very similar to the Emperor/Vader dynamic. Vader longed to have Luke join him, defeat the Emperor, and have Luke rule the galaxy with him. Kylo wanted Rey to join him, defeat Snoke, and have Rey rule the galaxy with him. It's just Kylo actually managed to kill his master and live.
Who was the antagonist? The First Order is - in all its individual representatives, but also in what it represents. It's a fight against an authoritarian, militant dictatorship - where any resistance is to be crushed, and when one dictator dies, another steps in to assume his place. It also introduced the idea that the people who are exploiting the conflict and profiting on the suffering of others are also secondary antagonists.
I saw this as a fulfillment of Obi Wan's comments in ANH ("Strike me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine") and Yoda's comments in ESB ("Luminous beings are we - not this crude matter"). If Force ghosts can appear and communicate with the world, that means the consciousness of those Jedi are still intact in the Force itself - and they can manipulate the Force to create a sort of astral projection of their bodies. If they can manipulate the force to do that, it's a short hop to creating a lightning strike.
Interesting that nobody in the First Order considers themselves the bad guys. Same as the Nazi’s, etc. They rule everything and you’ve got these Resistance misfits trying to ruin everything. So the Resistance are the bad guys to them.
No well-written villain is ever the villain in their own story.
But your post made me think of this...
Ebert has been dead a long time but his name gets pimped on that website like he's still running the show.
"Last Jedi" made 50 million in China and closed. Didn't make a ripple in 2nd largest market.
No issue with there being gravity aboard the spaceships, though, I guess? I mean, they all should have been floating around the Falcon as soon as it left Mos Eisley.
Why does Kylo want Rey to join him? Weren't they trying to kill each other in the last movie? Luke was Darth Vader's son, he has a reason for wanting Luke to join him. What is Rey to Kylo? The Emporer was built up over two movies to be the embodiment of evil and the clear mastermind behind the Empire. You have a reason to hate him. The Emporer's attack on Luke is the reason Vader returns to the light side of the force at the end. We have no reason to hate Snoke. He hasn't done anything to our main characters. There is no strong villain in this new trilogy. The audience roots for Kylo and Rey to fight off the guards together, and now he is supposed to be the main villain in the next movie. Admiral Hux is an incompetent boob. Captain Phasma is dead.
Things like Magic and "the force" still have rules in fiction that the author must establish and follow. Otherwise you get things like Leah flying through space. What absurdity is next?
Simple answer - Kylo's still a lonely kid looking for somewhere he fits in, and Rey is the only other person he's ever found who understands his connection to the Force, isn't trying to control him, and is someone he can train. Not hard to see why he wants her to join him.
The Emperor was built up over two movies? He had one scene as a hologram in ESB, and was really only a fully realized character for RotJ. His only mention in ANH was that he disbanded the Imperial Senate. You never saw him interact with any character other than Vader and Luke in the entire trilogy, and nearly all of that were scenes about getting Luke to join them.
Snoke didn't do anything to the main characters? Directly, there's Rey. Indirectly, he's the "clear mastermind" (to use your words) behind the First Order - and who destroyed an entire system to wipe out the Republic. He's the one giving Hux and Kylo their orders - it's pretty clear he's also painted as the "embodiment of evil".
Just seems the criticism of Snoke (and a lot of TLJ) ignores a lot of the same criticisms that can be made of the original trilogy.
The Force has never had any defined rules, just what has been shown in the movies. Just in Eps IV-VI, you get: telekinesis, telepathy, mind control/suggestion, astral projection after death (Force ghost), precognition, preternatural reflexes, augmented senses, and creation of lightning. What did TNJ add? Force ghost creation of lightning (we knew both were possible, this was just putting them together), astral projection before death (Luke appearing outside his physical body), telepathic link creation (a tweak on telepathy), and movement of one's own body through space (again telekinesis). None of those are really a huge reach.
If one felt that the original trilogy showed the all-inclusive set of all Force abilities, I can see how adding new ones would be disconcerting (though they added and talked about new ones in the prequels, too). But I've always just considered those a drop in the proverbial bucket - and if you've read any of the expanded universe stuff (novels, comics, etc), they've already gone down all kinds of roads with Force abilities that didn't make anything in TNJ shocking.
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