I have to say that a tear came to my eye when R2D2 played Princess Leia's original message to Ben Kenobi. Seeing Carrie Fisher in her youth one last time. I do miss her. RIP.
OT - Official Star Wars E8/The Last Jedi Thread
- Thread starter T2Kplus10
- Start date
UPDATED “Star Wars” Box Office Decline? “Last Jedi” First Tuesday Receipts Are 42% Off from “The Force Awakens”
http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/1...eceipts-are-half-as-much-as-the-force-awakens
http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/1...eceipts-are-half-as-much-as-the-force-awakens
Plinkett's Star Wars prequel reviews are several orders of magnitude more entertaining than the movies themselves.
Well there was more pent up anticipation for that one as opposed to this one so that probably explains part of it.
I like that this one started to break away from the old Star Wars a little but I'm not sure if others feel the same so that might dampen it as well.
The film is being promoted all over the web as "overtly feminist" ( https://www.google.com/search?q=sta...F4_q_AaL2oLQAw&start=10&sa=N&biw=1536&bih=710 ).
That ties in with long running criticism among gamers (see "Gamergate"). None of that is due - simply - to a main female character since these same people like things like Wonder Woman, Tomb Raider etc.
Liberal identity politics has ruined Star Wars for the fanboys
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/liberal-identity-politics-has-ruined-star-wars-fanboys/
The Last Jedi Offers the Harsh Condemnation of Mansplaining We Need in 2017
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women
I'm not a fan of having a trilogy that has different people writing and directing each one, it can make things disjointed.
Only good thing is that JJ is back for IX because, he introduces things in FA, that disappear in LJ, that maybe or may not be in IX.
Only good thing is that JJ is back for IX because, he introduces things in FA, that disappear in LJ, that maybe or may not be in IX.
Agree. Definitely feels like JJ was going one direction with certain things, and then Rian Johnson just came along and said "nah, none of that stuff matters".
I did enjoy the movie, and will probably go see it in the theater again in a week or so.
I don't know I didn't really see any direction from Abrams in Force Awakens. It's mostly rehash and unoriginal. I think that was one of the main critiques of it and now that Last Jedi has broken away a little from traditional Star Wars, they're critiques of that. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Some corny jokes, Leia flying in space aside I liked the breaking out of the old mold myself.
It's kind of ironic because like I mentioned above Last Jedi kinda reminded me of the Star Trek reboot and Abrams directed that. The time travel, timeline change allowed him to break out of "old Star Trek" and explore a new direction a little bit. He had the opportunity for that in Force Awakens but for whatever reason he didn't but now it's been done for him by another director so he's free to explore in Episode 9.
I don't know who directed Rogue One but I wouldn't have minded him directing one of these because I really liked that one.
First 30-45 minutes were terrible, with leia surviving space and too much Disney and bad acting by Luke. Yoda’s appearance was the turning point although the digital representation was horrible. From that point it turned positive. Definitely better than force awakens and better than expected. Not as good as Rogue one which I rank as possibly the third best Star Wars behind empire and new hope.
Have watched the TLJ 2x's now and I still fundamentally disagree with everything they did with Luke Skywalker. Not terrible but nowhere near Empire strikes back as some reviews placed it .
Last edited:
Yoda wasn't a digital representation, it was a replicate (if not exact) of the puppet from empire.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.syfy...-puppet-was-rebuilt-for-a-last-jedi-cameo?amp
Luke could have been handled better, but the SW universe really needed to move on from Luke. However, I believe we will see plenty of Force Ghost Luke in E9 to help Rey out.
I also read that E9 will jump several years in the future. Probably a good thing.
I also expect Luke to be a "ghost" like Yoda, Obi Wan. I mean his "disappearance" was reminiscent of Obi Wan in New Hope.
Flash forward definitely seems possible too, I thought that was possibly foreshadowed with the stable boy in the last scene. I wasn't sure how far forward though. I don't think they'd want to waste too much of the movie on rebuilding the resistance as opposed to having it already partially if not fully rebuilt with just references to it having happened.
And they shouldn't waste too much of the movie on both Rey and Ben maturing as characters, which is also needed. Most of that can happen off-screen.
Rey training with Ghost Luke and Ben getting his parent issues dealt with.
Not for nothing but this Saga is about the Skywalker lineage , yes you introduce new characters but no way should Luke be placed in the role he was for Episode 8. On top of the numerous issues I have with Rian's vision overall.
I also agree that we will see Luke as a force ghost with powers we have never seen before.
I understand why many are not happy with Luke's character in this movie, but we really needed to get to Ghost Luke for the story to move on. Interesting to see what happens to Ben in E9. He is a Skywalker. Can he be turned or will get be offed?Not for nothing but this Saga is about the Skywalker lineage , yes you introduce new characters but no way should Luke be placed in the role he was for Episode 8. On top of the numerous issues I have with Rian's vision overall.
I also agree that we will see Luke as a force ghost with powers we have never seen before.
Sting. Sting would be another person who's a hero.
The music he's created over the years, I don't really listen to it, but the fact that he's making it, I respect that
Saw it yesterday with my 10 year old daughter and her friend. Not a huge Star Wars fan, but do recall it fondly from my childhood. Had read great reviews so was expecting big things. Thought it was not great and was disappointed. Plot just made little sense in so many areas. Visually stunning, but otherwise seemed like a silly movie to me.
But what did your daughter and her friend think?
I was 11 in the Summer of ‘77 when the Star Destroyer filled up the whole screen during the opening scene. I looked at it differently then probably like they do today.
They thought it was good, not great. It is fair to say that they enjoyed it more than I did. To that point, it did feel a bit like a children's movie to me at times with the silly plotting. The scene where Leia went floating through space was ridiculous and one of the most corny I can recall in any movie in a while. Overall it was OK, but felt deflating to me based on the great reviews I had read. It was nowhere close to great.
It doesnt make sense for the writers to keep her alive. For one there is no need for her character from that point. Second, they had to rewrite the rules of what a Jedi can do....using a character who has shown the least aptitude with the force.
I liked it, but that Leia flying in space thing was one of the biggest WTF things I've ever seen in a movie. Knowing that Carrie Fisher was dead, I thought that was a decent way to kill off the character, but then that.......?
Still unanswered.....how/why does Rey have the Force?
Still unanswered.....how/why does Rey have the Force?
Just saw it. Not impressed. Some good but mostly bad. Seems this Rian Johnson just decided the Force Awakens didn't happen and he would tell his own story. He really never followed through with a lot of the story lines from that one.
Felt like he had some warped agenda, males are either bad people, completely incompetent, stubborn or stupid and that the universe can only be saved if males follow women in power. I think this is why critics loved it, but the fan base was put off. Every male character had to be taught by a women what to do and when left to their own devices they screwed it up. Very disappointing, this agenda sucked the fun out of it.
Felt like he had some warped agenda, males are either bad people, completely incompetent, stubborn or stupid and that the universe can only be saved if males follow women in power. I think this is why critics loved it, but the fan base was put off. Every male character had to be taught by a women what to do and when left to their own devices they screwed it up. Very disappointing, this agenda sucked the fun out of it.
Not so sure about the warped agenda or even a more female bent vs previous SW history. From the beginning, females were prominent leaders within the Rebellion (i.e. Leia & Mon Motha). I don't think Laura Dern's character was well-written, but I'm not so sure it all about males having to learn from a wise woman. TBH, if she had been a bit more forthcoming, some folks wouldn't have been so damned nervous to 'do something', but in any case, they were found out anyway. Maybe it's the whole 'love' vs 'war' angle (which Rose personified) that turns some older SW fans a bit off (i.e. doing things for love instead of destroying your enemies). Or maybe it's just eradicating the whole Skywalker/Solo axis from the story that bothers them, especially those that have invested their time reading the various Expanded Universe books, which are no longer canon. A lot of good story lines have been exploded by the Last Jedi, so I'm sure a lot of the backlash is due to that. We'll no longer have Mara Jade, Pelleaon, Talon Karrde, Daala, Kyp Durron, etc. Some of them were still possible, but the Last Jedi has just about put paid to most of them.
During the whole movie tell me one rebel male who didn't screw up? Poe the attack on the dreadnought, then he basically tells the 1st order their plans. Finn and his failed attempt to lower the shields then the attack on the canon. Luke being a stubborn grouchy old man. Hell even Chewbacca couldn't eat a bird without being guilty of being an evil carnivore.
Then look at the female characters and none of them could do wrong. Believe me the strong female characters in Star Wars are what have made it great. But this one just took it way too far. Hell at the end of the movie I said to my wife I think the Rebel Alliance would be better off if it was just a female only organization from now on. All the males did, was screw everything up.
Last edited:
In the end, it was Luke who gave the Resistance a chance to re-kindle their Hope. Yeah, Rey helped with the final escape, but no way she does it without Luke's sacrifice.
Star Wars is a classic hero allegory - jesus, odysseus, luke skywalker, neo, frodo baggins, Harry Potter - that’s all gone now
I missed it the first time I watched it, but caught a line the second time I saw it where she tells Chewy that she'll send out a signal using a beacon (just before she got into the pod and went to Snope's ship). Even with that, it's a bit too convenient, IMO. I guess it gives them the ability to put her on the Falcon without having to show it in a scene.
Saw it today and was not impressed at all. The entire Finn and Rose storyline could have been cut out and saved an hour of time. Besides the special effects with the star destroyers and the light saber scenes, the rest just seemed like a big soap opera with awkward commedy. Was hoping it would be closer to Rogue One but turned out more like the episode 1
Finally got around to seeing it, and minus a few parts here and there, really liked it.
I'm quite lost regarding all the hate for the Rian Johnson take on things.
Feel free to debate any of it (the pieces you didn't understand or didn't care for) if you'd like, since it's fresh on my mind.
I'm quite lost regarding all the hate for the Rian Johnson take on things.
Feel free to debate any of it (the pieces you didn't understand or didn't care for) if you'd like, since it's fresh on my mind.
I came out of the theater and it didn't "wow" me... but the more I've thought about it and discussed it the last couple of weeks, the more I find myself liking all the individual parts. Going to need to see it again - had had a pretty busy/rushed day the first time I saw it, and a twisted knee didn't let me get comfortable.. so, I may just not have been in the right mood.
The whole theme of the movie is failure - and how you respond to it. Everyone in this movie failed, on some level.
- Rey failed to get Luke to train to come back to the Rebellion, or to train her.
- Luke had failed Ben, which led to him becoming Kylo Ren.
- Finn once failed to abandon the rebellion (again), then failed to shut down the hyperspace tracker.
- Rose also failed to shut down the tracker.
- Poe failed in the initial bombing run on the dreadnought (all bombers died), and again with his plan of mutiny and escape from Hux.
- Leia was the leader of the rebellion and ended the movie with only so many left as could fit on the Falcon.
- Holdo failed to execute her escape plan in the shuttles, and ultimately sacrificed herself to save as many as she could.
- Kylo failed to turn Rey or get revenge on Luke.
- Hux failed to assume command once Snoke died.
- Snoke, well, died.
Even Yoda tells Luke this outright - "the greatest teacher, failure is"
The movie put the main characters in Joseph Campbell's "Belly of the Whale", from the Heroic Journey. All seems at its bleakest... and Episode IX has to show what they all learned from their failures.
Good story arcs throughout:
- Luke cutting himself off from the Force after his failure with Ben, and going into hiding from Snoke. He couldn't get past his failure, and was "stuck" there... so much so that he was having existential crisis about the concept of being a legend.... and he later becomes the hero once he finally gets back involved, showing that as a legend he can have power to inspire others as a symbol (see broom kid at the end)
- Rey tried to accomplish her mission to get Luke to join the rebellion, but ultimately took the Jedi texts and left him on the island - choosing to forge her own path, and step into the shoes she was hoping Luke would fill for the rebellion.
- Poe learning he has to be more than just a good pilot who blows stuff up, but he has to start thinking like a leader. Insubordination, charm, and talent isn't going to cut it anymore. He needed those failures to get past that "shoot first" mentality and grow into a more responsible role in the next film.
- Finn went from being entirely selfish (save himself and Rey) and wanting no part of the rebellion, to naming himself as a rebel ("rebel scum") and sacrificing himself for the cause. His trip to Canto Bright and his time with Rose allowed that arc to happen. He's now "all in" going into the next film.
- Rose followed in her sister's footsteps of putting her life on the line for the cause, but ultimately came to the idea that the whole point is to fight "for" something rather than "against" it. Shorter arc, but still sound - and needed to be there for Finn's growth, and to show the human toll of Poe's failures in getting her sister killed.
- Leia was trying to be the mentor to Poe, but he wouldn't listen... but by the end it seemed like he was finally ready to.
- Kylo gave up trying to become Darth Vader and please Snoke, and has taken the reins of power in the First Order.
TONS went on in this film - so many plotlines, locations, plot head-fakes, red herrings, false endings, etc. It may have been too much... need to see it again now that I've got all the parts swimming around in my head. I think it was too much to swallow in one viewing - whereas Eps IV-VII were more straightforward.
Looking forward to my second viewing, and to Ep IX
The whole theme of the movie is failure - and how you respond to it. Everyone in this movie failed, on some level.
- Rey failed to get Luke to train to come back to the Rebellion, or to train her.
- Luke had failed Ben, which led to him becoming Kylo Ren.
- Finn once failed to abandon the rebellion (again), then failed to shut down the hyperspace tracker.
- Rose also failed to shut down the tracker.
- Poe failed in the initial bombing run on the dreadnought (all bombers died), and again with his plan of mutiny and escape from Hux.
- Leia was the leader of the rebellion and ended the movie with only so many left as could fit on the Falcon.
- Holdo failed to execute her escape plan in the shuttles, and ultimately sacrificed herself to save as many as she could.
- Kylo failed to turn Rey or get revenge on Luke.
- Hux failed to assume command once Snoke died.
- Snoke, well, died.
Even Yoda tells Luke this outright - "the greatest teacher, failure is"
The movie put the main characters in Joseph Campbell's "Belly of the Whale", from the Heroic Journey. All seems at its bleakest... and Episode IX has to show what they all learned from their failures.
Good story arcs throughout:
- Luke cutting himself off from the Force after his failure with Ben, and going into hiding from Snoke. He couldn't get past his failure, and was "stuck" there... so much so that he was having existential crisis about the concept of being a legend.... and he later becomes the hero once he finally gets back involved, showing that as a legend he can have power to inspire others as a symbol (see broom kid at the end)
- Rey tried to accomplish her mission to get Luke to join the rebellion, but ultimately took the Jedi texts and left him on the island - choosing to forge her own path, and step into the shoes she was hoping Luke would fill for the rebellion.
- Poe learning he has to be more than just a good pilot who blows stuff up, but he has to start thinking like a leader. Insubordination, charm, and talent isn't going to cut it anymore. He needed those failures to get past that "shoot first" mentality and grow into a more responsible role in the next film.
- Finn went from being entirely selfish (save himself and Rey) and wanting no part of the rebellion, to naming himself as a rebel ("rebel scum") and sacrificing himself for the cause. His trip to Canto Bright and his time with Rose allowed that arc to happen. He's now "all in" going into the next film.
- Rose followed in her sister's footsteps of putting her life on the line for the cause, but ultimately came to the idea that the whole point is to fight "for" something rather than "against" it. Shorter arc, but still sound - and needed to be there for Finn's growth, and to show the human toll of Poe's failures in getting her sister killed.
- Leia was trying to be the mentor to Poe, but he wouldn't listen... but by the end it seemed like he was finally ready to.
- Kylo gave up trying to become Darth Vader and please Snoke, and has taken the reins of power in the First Order.
TONS went on in this film - so many plotlines, locations, plot head-fakes, red herrings, false endings, etc. It may have been too much... need to see it again now that I've got all the parts swimming around in my head. I think it was too much to swallow in one viewing - whereas Eps IV-VII were more straightforward.
Looking forward to my second viewing, and to Ep IX
You're more than willing to think that Yodi can come back as a force ghost and Luke can astroproject, but one physics slip-up and you can't bear give the movie any credibility. I mean, seriously, Chewbacca is flying a spaceship. And you nitpick on gravity.
